Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Vinkman on August 04, 2009, 08:15:41 AM
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I've been wondering why the LCG sight is not active in the game? All of these planes had LCGs in real life.
My item for the wish list is to add a Lead Computing Gun sight option.
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Really? WWII planes had tracking radar and computers to update the HUD to show where to put the pipper?
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I'm 99.9% positive most of these planes didn't have that.
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I think the K-14 sight used by some American fighters late in the war were primitive lead-computing sights. But we're talking maybe 2-3 aircraft, at the VERY end of the war.
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Not required. They used a G meter and distance setting to calculate the compansation. That's why the Gun sight is a HUD instead of a circle painted on the windscreen. The Circle was a light projected on the screen that floated up and down based on the g's a pilot was pulling. Not as Acurate as the later versions which you describe but very effective. Check out this entry on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyro_gunsight
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The Gyroscopic gunsight is often referred to as a lead computing gunsight and has through such erroneous application become accepted convention. There were "LCGs" available in WWII, the K-14, Feranti Mk-II, and EZ40 come to mind; all of which were actually gyroscopic gunsights.
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It's not clear if the HUDs were also used on non-LCGs, but I'm not sure why they would bother with a HUD if the sight was fixed. The wiki article says they were in prodictionin 1941, butit's not clear how prevelant or on which models they were used on. It is clear that they were used at some point. I also remember reading about the the introduction of them during the war and how they helped firing acuracy significantly, especially for newer pilots. I'll keep digging...
But my point is that perhaps they could be added to planes that actually had them. I seem to remember Air Warrior planes had them. They were an option you could turn on or off. I seem to remember using them when I got started and then setting the gunsight for 'fixed' when I gained enough experience to judge lead myself.
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VonKrimm,
Not sure what the difference between Lead computing and Gyroscopic is. Seems like the 'gyro' is a way to calulate the 'lead'. But I admit I may be missing something.
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Vinkman,
It's not a "HUD." It was a reflector sight: Light shining up through the bottom of the sight was reflected on the sight glass. The pattern was created by an insert with a cutout in the desired pattern between the lamp and the sight glass.
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I've been wondering why the LCG sight is not active in the game? All of these planes had LCGs in real life.
My item for the wish list is to add a Lead Computing Gun sight option.
(http://www.nope.org/images/nope_logo2.gif)
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IIRC the "LCG" was modeled at one time (not active in game). I vaguly recall messing around with it in offline mode. The issue I see with having your auto-aimer would be that the already "uber" planes would become more... uber.
Some that did have the gyro gunsight IRL...
Supermarine Spitfire
P-51
P-47
F4u
Tempest
Typhoon
Hurri
Mossy
Now do you REALLY wanna have an auto aiming system on a spixteen? I personally don't...
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I really wonder exactly how much use they would be in AH. As I understand it the way they worked is that the pilot had to hold the piper on the target while fiddling with a dial on the throttle that dialed in the width of the targets wingspan into the mechanical computer, from there the gunsight would move the piper to the proper aim location to fire. This required that the target remain relatively stable and not take any evasive maneuvers from my experience this sounds like the exception to most of my encounters in AH. Even in a situation in a furball where you catch your target unaware of your presence they are often engaged in some sort of maneuver to attack another plane.
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I really wonder exactly how much use they would be in AH. As I understand it the way they worked is that the pilot had to hold the piper on the target while fiddling with a dial on the throttle that dialed in the width of the targets wingspan into the mechanical computer, from there the gunsight would move the piper to the proper aim location to fire. This required that the target remain relatively stable and not take any evasive maneuvers from my experience this sounds like the exception to most of my encounters in AH. Even in a situation in a furball where you catch your target unaware of your presence they are often engaged in some sort of maneuver to attack another plane.
My understanding was most pilots just used the fixed sight and didn't even bother with the gyro sights for that very reason.
As far as the wingspan, I believe some of the sights could be "preset" for the different targets (I know I've seen pictures of the P-51D's K-14 with a selector switch on the sight labeled for 109, 190, Ju-88, etc).
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I really wonder exactly how much use they would be in AH. As I understand it the way they worked is that the pilot had to hold the piper on the target while fiddling with a dial on the throttle that dialed in the width of the targets wingspan into the mechanical computer, from there the gunsight would move the piper to the proper aim location to fire. This required that the target remain relatively stable and not take any evasive maneuvers from my experience this sounds like the exception to most of my encounters in AH. Even in a situation in a furball where you catch your target unaware of your presence they are often engaged in some sort of maneuver to attack another plane.
During violent maneuvers, the gun site had to be locked or else it was pretty much toast.. Much like the Apollo space craft's 8 ball, it would get into a sort of gimbal lock..
It only worked well in ideal conditions.... Despite what the show Dogfights leads one to believe, it was useless in a high G engagement..
I can see it now.. Spixteen pile-it is stick stirring and forgets to cage the site..lol
We totally don't need any kind of lead-computing gunsight.. If flying a Spixteen or some other trainer isn't easy enough for you, IL2 has lead computing gunsights, arcade style flight dynamics capability and some guys set up online gameplay servers that allow their use.. It doesn't get any easier than that.. Or, download some of the offline missions and use it in there, or in the TA..
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While it is true that some of the aircraft in AH did have gyro sights, it is also true that other examples of those same aircraft did not have them and instead had the older, plain reflector sights. It is therefor just fine and dandy for AH to not have gyro sights.
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Computing Gunsights were first used int the F-86B. No aircraft in WWII had them
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Computing Gunsights were first used int the F-86B. No aircraft in WWII had them
As it's been stated in this thread WW2 did have lead computing gun sights, the following was taken from
http://www.cebudanderson.com/europe.htm (http://www.cebudanderson.com/europe.htm)
A second development arrived later in the summer of 1944 in the form of a new gun sight. Eighth fighter aircraft were equipped with a fixed sight, called the N-3 and later N-9 gun sight,. Both sights were optical with a ring and dot of light called the "pipper," which projected onto the clear glass in front of the sight. The pilot looked at his target through the gun sight, putting the pipper on the target only when there was no angle off involved, which is from directly ahead or directly behind. To make a deflection shot, he estimated the angle off to the target and then placed the pipper ahead to get proper lead.
The new K-14 gyroscopic gun sight solved this problem for the pilot. the pilot used the k-14 much like the N-3 or N-9, but with a few exceptions. The K-14 had a dial attached to the throttle, which enabled the pilot to set a ring of diamonds around the target's wing span. Once the target's wing span was selected, the pilot placed the ring and pipper on the aircraft and maneuvered his fighter to keep the target centered for a brief second. The K-14 computed the range and angle of the target in relation to the attacking fighter, and moved the pipper to the proper aim point. The fighter pilot then moved the nose of his aircraft to center the pipper. Once this was accomplished, he could open fire on the target.
The idea has evolved since then, but they did have a gyroscopic sight that when fed the proper information would calculate the lead for the pilot, The B-29 also had a mechanical computer that did much the same thing, in fact the gunners on the B-29 operated the turrets remotely.
All that being said I still don't think they'd really bring anything to the game.
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Oh to be young again.
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Vinkman, we had a nice fight the other night. I would recommend you try something other than the P39 until you get comfortable with Aces High, the ballistics on the 37mm can be a bit tough at times.
If you're dead set on flying the P39, let me know and I can provide you a target in the TA where the lead computer sight is enabled. After a few passes, turn it off or you'll start to rely on it. From then on, I'd recommend you work offline on the drones until you can 'one pass' them from any direction and at any speed.
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Vinkman, we had a nice fight the other night. I would recommend you try something other than the P39 until you get comfortable with Aces High, the ballistics on the 37mm can be a bit tough at times.
If you're dead set on flying the P39, let me know and I can provide you a target in the TA where the lead computer sight is enabled. After a few passes, turn it off or you'll start to rely on it. From then on, I'd recommend you work offline on the drones until you can 'one pass' them from any direction and at any speed.
Also keep in mind the P-39D has three different guns with three different ballistics properties: Four .30cal, two .50cal and either a 37mm or 20mm. The Q is a little easier with 2-4 .50s and the 37mm, but either way mixed armaments can be very difficult to learn gunnery with, especially since the 37mm has such a low muzzle velocity (exception being aircraft that mix the Browning .50cal with the Hispano 20mm, both of which have very similar ballistics and muzzle velocity).
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Cant remember - is LCS available offline?
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Computing Gunsights were first used int the F-86B. No aircraft in WWII had them
*sighs*
Some that did have the gyro gunsight IRL...
Supermarine Spitfire
P-51
P-47
F4u
Tempest
Typhoon
Hurri
Mossy
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I think that it would throw my aim off, since I'm used to calculating lead for myself.
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There are people that cant use what we have now and complain after each update that somethings changed and they cant hit anything. As an instinctive shooter I dont care but I will say that most people will only waste more ammo with a sight like you want if it is a recreation of the originals.
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I find myself chasing the nme with the pipper instead of lining up my shots properly when using a lcs .
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I find myself chasing the nme with the pipper instead of lining up my shots properly when using a lcs .
Yeah, me too... I also hated the lead gunsight in AW... My aim is traditionally horrible, but I've found these things make it traditionally worse...
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OK. No LCG in the game. One reason I wanted it was exactly for training purposes so I could get an idea in the training arena of where I'm 'supposed' to be shooting. BUT I will settle for a new wish....
...Unlimited AMMO in the offline practice. It would save a lot of time when practicing gunnery on the drones
Also Great point by Saxman, I plotted up the bullet trajectories for all 3 guns as you said and found that setting the convergence of 37mm at 800yrd (some gave me that tip) was creating so much arc on the cannon that I could shoot right over a plane that the .50 cals were hitting at 400 yrds. I now picked different points for both that minimizes the vertical spread between the trajectories for distances less than 600 yrds. AND only shoot at targets less than 600. It helped quite a bit.
ALSO...Delirium, I will definitely take you up on that TA offer. I'll send you massage when both on-line again.
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OK. No LCG in the game. One reason I wanted it was exactly for training purposes so I could get an idea in the training arena of where I'm 'supposed' to be shooting. BUT I will settle for a new wish....
...Unlimited AMMO in the offline practice. It would save a lot of time when practicing gunnery on the drones
Wish Granted...you can do both of these things in the game already! The LCG is only available offline and in the TA, and you can set up the ammo offline to what ever you want.
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I'll send you massage when both on-line again.
Hey! I want a "massage" too. :x
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BUT I will settle for a new wish....
...Unlimited AMMO in the offline practice. It would save a lot of time when practicing gunnery on the drones
you can get 10x the ammo by going offline and goto:
Options/Arena Setup/Enviroment/Arena Settings/PlaneGunAmmoMult and set to 10
you can also turn on the Lead Computing Gun Sight by going to FlightModeFlags while in Arena Settings and click the box for it.
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We dont have the auto sight but we do have an auto range finder. which i believe helps a great deal.....
<S>
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Dkff49.
Thanks for the instructions on my wish list. I will do.
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The P51 B and there after had the D9... someone might wanna go check it out futher. I do not know the total spec's just read it recently.
Eagle
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The P51 B and there after had the D9... someone might wanna go check it out futher. I do not know the total spec's just read it recently.
Eagle
That's odd. I heard it was the K9, and only some P-51s had the gunsight, but it wasn't very useful in maneuvering dogfights, only dead six chases. Of course, it could all be hearsay.
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Vink:
you can also set fuel burn rate to Zero,then you never run outta fuel!
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you can get 10x the ammo by going offline and goto:
Options/Arena Setup/Enviroment/Arena Settings/PlaneGunAmmoMult and set to 10
you can also turn on the Lead Computing Gun Sight by going to FlightModeFlags while in Arena Settings and click the box for it.
dkff,you can really set it as high as you want it to go,you can LITERALLY give yourself unlimited ammo,just type 500 in there or something and when you takeoff the ammo windows will say "OOR" which I believe stands for out of reference
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Vinkman, we had a nice fight the other night. I would recommend you try something other than the P39 until you get comfortable with Aces High, the ballistics on the 37mm can be a bit tough at times.
You can always use the P39D though,it has a 20mm cannon option. I don't see how anyone would fly it with a 37 unless attacking gvs or bombers
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You can always use the P39D though,it has a 20mm cannon option. I don't see how anyone would fly it with a 37 unless attacking gvs or bombers
I use the 37 to take out fighters, as I have had little success killing, or even tracking gvs with it. I gave up on attacking those Star Destroyers a long time ago. I don't see why anyone would fly with the 20mm option, as if they go for the ho, you can't kill them in one shot.
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I would just like someone to tell me a good site to download some differ
ent gunsights, or possibly if someone can maybe tell me how to tweak the ones already in the folder