Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Unit791 on August 17, 2009, 09:19:15 PM
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Ok, so I'm Dutch, and love the idea of Dutch markings on planes. For those of you who know nothing about WW2, the Dutch played an important role,a nd operated allied planes like the Spitfire, Hurricane, and Brewter Buffalo, so here is a website with a LOAD of skins for Dutch WW2 planes. All of you skin-making geniouses out there, I have a task for you.
http://www.michael-reimer.com/CFS2/CFS2_Profiles/PTO_Allies_ML-KNIL.html
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The super-uber-latewarmonster "Brewster" we have in-game would in no way resemble the slow, heavy, ungainly (*cough*realistic*cough*) B339E that the Dutch probably used, so I don't know if it's really honest to skin that as Dutch.
The only other plane close to something we have in AH would be the Hurr IIB, but of course the problem is you'd have to do that on the Hurr IA plane instead. That itself isn't too much of a problem, but on top of that there are "no photos" of those planes, and it might take a lot of research to get any particular skin accurate, if you wanted to skin one.
Are there other planes, perhaps not on that list, that might've had Dutch markings?
If only AH had the Hawk75, lol! That'd be a great Dutch skin. If I recall, they used a large number of them, right?
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Greebo already did a Dutch skin for the B-239.
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I been meaning to do a Dutch B-25, I will see about bumping that up the list.
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I been meaning to do a Dutch B-25, I will see about bumping that up the list.
The Dutch used B-25s :huh
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The Dutch used B-25s :huh
Oh yes I have quite a few photos of them. Most of the Dutch aircraft were used in composite squadrons in the Pacific with Australian & American forces. A Dutch skin is long over due of any type as we have none that I am aware of.
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The super-uber-latewarmonster "Brewster" we have in-game would in no way resemble the slow, heavy, ungainly (*cough*realistic*cough*) B339E that the Dutch probably used, so I don't know if it's really honest to skin that as Dutch.
Well there go's every other skin in the works besides the Fins.
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I haven't done a Dutch Brewster yet, but I will skin one for you Unit791.
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The Dutch used B-25s :huh
Oh ye of little faith.
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I haven't done a Dutch Brewster yet, but I will skin one for you Unit791.
:D Thanks
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Some Dutch B25's stationed in Australia & some other places & later time pics.
(http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/7094/aml45.th.jpg) (http://img23.imageshack.us/i/aml45.jpg/) (http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/8381/23fsy.th.jpg) (http://img30.imageshack.us/i/23fsy.jpg/) (http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/8813/117fs.th.jpg) (http://img170.imageshack.us/i/117fs.jpg/) (http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/7674/119fs.th.jpg) (http://img170.imageshack.us/i/119fs.jpg/) (http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/2706/asppgig796441633.th.jpg) (http://img170.imageshack.us/i/asppgig796441633.jpg/) (http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/4169/fairbairn01.th.jpg) (http://img134.imageshack.us/i/fairbairn01.jpg/) (http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/6508/macdonald05.th.jpg) (http://img30.imageshack.us/i/macdonald05.jpg/) (http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/3291/p920743.th.jpg) (http://img297.imageshack.us/i/p920743.jpg/) (http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/7233/nt138a.th.jpg) (http://img134.imageshack.us/i/nt138a.jpg/) (http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/957/macdonald07.th.jpg) (http://img30.imageshack.us/i/macdonald07.jpg/) (http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/559/spb25.th.jpg) (http://img411.imageshack.us/i/spb25.jpg/) (http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/6320/2907034751d2be2cd42e.th.jpg) (http://img522.imageshack.us/i/2907034751d2be2cd42e.jpg/) (http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/378/b25ed.th.jpg) (http://img30.imageshack.us/i/b25ed.jpg/) (http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/4668/ednosecupb25.th.jpg) (http://img6.imageshack.us/i/ednosecupb25.jpg/) (http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/948/b251.th.jpg) (http://img6.imageshack.us/i/b251.jpg/)
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Well there go's every other skin in the works besides the Fins.
Exactly my problem with it.
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Exactly my problem with it.
I do understand where you are coming from on this issue & technically you have a point based off some of your other posts I have read.
But what can you do? there is no other variants on the horizon & in this case I guess near enough is going to have to be good enough.
How ever from what I have read the Dutch aircraft were some what differant again to all the other units operating them such as the RAF,RAAF,RNZAF, and the American units.
Not having all the facts of what model the Dutch used in front of me at present it is possible that they may be more closely aligned with the Fin's aircraft? and if so may be a little more eligible from your perspective?
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I haven't done a Dutch Brewster yet, but I will skin one for you Unit791.
D'Oh :o
Could have sworn that's one of the ones you did. Sorry :o
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Not having all the facts of what model the Dutch used in front of me at present it is possible that they may be more closely aligned with the Fin's aircraft? and if so may be a little more eligible from your perspective?
I doubt (highly) that even AH's "Brewster" aligns with what the Finns had.
Aside from that, no the other Buffalos got heavier and heavier. Even the F2A3. So if the Dutch used a later model (like a 339D or 339E) it'd be like comparing a P-40B to a A6M5.
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I asked Pyro what would and would not be allowed skin-wise for the Brewster a couple of months ago. I can't find his reply at the moment but going from memory he didn't want any USN skins, but otherwise if it saw squadron service in WW2 then it should be OK.
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Although HTC seems to continually refer to it as the Finnish Brewster. Going by the normal precedents todate it would be difficult to show this model in any other skin than a Finnish one.
If Dutch variants like the 339D were used in any numbers would it not be better to collect the data and lobby for that variant to be added?
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That's kind of what they should have done in the first place. Instead they did the equivelant of asking the russkies to describe the La7, asking the brits to describe the spitfire. They asked the Finns (and only the finns) how to model the brewster.
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Some more Dutch 25's. One of these is the same from my other post but are clearer versions. The profile & the last photo are the same aircraft.
(http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/9650/444q.th.jpg) (http://img338.imageshack.us/i/444q.jpg/) (http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/9205/umpcam6ygte.th.jpg) (http://img190.imageshack.us/i/umpcam6ygte.jpg/) (http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8799/nt137b.th.jpg) (http://img89.imageshack.us/i/nt137b.jpg/) (http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8513/p920797.th.jpg) (http://img89.imageshack.us/i/p920797.jpg/) (http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/5763/p920742.th.jpg) (http://img515.imageshack.us/i/p920742.jpg/) (http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4844/p920747.th.jpg) (http://img89.imageshack.us/i/p920747.jpg/) (http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4568/ump2222.th.jpg) (http://img89.imageshack.us/i/ump2222.jpg/)
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That's kind of what they should have done in the first place. Instead they did the equivelant of asking the russkies to describe the La7, asking the brits to describe the spitfire. They asked the Finns (and only the finns) how to model the brewster.
So you assume they did no research of their own and only consulted Wmaker? :huh
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Some more Dutch 25's. One of these is the same from my other post but are clearer versions. The profile & the last photo are the same aircraft.
(http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/9650/444q.th.jpg) (http://img338.imageshack.us/i/444q.jpg/) (http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/9205/umpcam6ygte.th.jpg) (http://img190.imageshack.us/i/umpcam6ygte.jpg/) (http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8799/nt137b.th.jpg) (http://img89.imageshack.us/i/nt137b.jpg/) (http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8513/p920797.th.jpg) (http://img89.imageshack.us/i/p920797.jpg/) (http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/5763/p920742.th.jpg) (http://img515.imageshack.us/i/p920742.jpg/) (http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4844/p920747.th.jpg) (http://img89.imageshack.us/i/p920747.jpg/) (http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4568/ump2222.th.jpg) (http://img89.imageshack.us/i/ump2222.jpg/)
Just noticed the second plane from the left in the last photo has the same Donald duck nose art on the right side of the plane just like the larger photo with it on the left. Most of these Dutch aircraft are kind of plain Janes or the pictures are not close enough to get a good read on some of the nose art. The one with Donald on it may be the best choice if any one is cosidering any of my pictures.
I can't find a complete picture of this plane but I think if you look at all the insignia markings on all the 18TH squadron aircraft that I have posted from before in this thread, they seem to be the same from when they first painted on the Dutch markings. With this link I think you could just about have enought to do N5-128.
http://www.airwarweb.net/NEI/nei18_b25.php
http://www.awm.gov.au/exhibitions/alliesinadversity/australia/nei.asp
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So you assume they did no research of their own and only consulted Wmaker? :huh
Yes yes! You see Mensa, I wouldn't want MY PRECIOUS to fly anyway else than the best possible plausible wayyyyy! My precious...so, so I devised this evil, evil plan and hypnotised pyro and the rest of the guys and gal at HTC and forced them into my Finnish-HTC -conspiracy! :noid
(http://www.danperezstudios.com/images/workshop/gollum%20maquette.jpg)
And now...I HAVE MY PRECIOUS!! Muhahaha...hahahahahaha...hah aha...ha!!
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Seriously though, Krusty is assuming things that he once again doesn't have the slightest clue about. Pyro posted a thread where everyone could post their material regarding Brewster, not just Finns. I made it crystal clear from the start to myself that I would only provide data and not "tell" Pyro what the speed or climb rate for example should be and let him draw his own conclusions from the data provided. With that last post of his, Krusty is simply insulting the intelligence of Pyro. He's basically saying that Pyro blindly accepted what ever "biased view" was provided by the Finns regarding the performance of the Brewster and modelled the plane accordingly. The fact that he honestly thinks that that was the case is beyond me. No, Pyro only relies on hard primary source material.
If I sometime have the energy I'll post a thread where list and explain all the data me and Camo sent to HTC. What is clear that the differences between the data provided and the performance of the AH Brewster are very small and that Pyro has done an awesome job with the flight model.
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This is going to get interesting.
(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/fe3ce6301d.jpg) (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
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Usually does when one side presents hard data and the other goes with just opinion.
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Back in January, as Wmaker states, Pyro posted publicly asking for information on the Brewster. He did not just ask the Finns and as you can see non Finns including Krusty participated in the thread.
Here is the thread:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,255747.0.html
Also Wmaker, is born out on his statement that Pyro was looking just for data. This statement at the end of the thread posted by Pyro pretty much says just that.
I deleted a bunch of posts out of here to try to condense this thread down to just info. Thanks to everyone who posted info. For discussions please open a different thread so that it's easy to access the info in this thread.
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Lets see if Krusty makes another appearance into this thread. On couple other threads about the Brewster where his overmodelling and what-not comments have been refuted, he just leaves the thread without a reply. I'm beginning to think that he's just trolling.
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Yes yes! You see Mensa, I wouldn't want MY PRECIOUS to fly anyway else than the best possible plausible wayyyyy! My precious...so, so I devised this evil, evil plan and hypnotised pyro and the rest of the guys and gal at HTC and forced them into my Finnish-HTC -conspiracy! :noid
(http://www.danperezstudios.com/images/workshop/gollum%20maquette.jpg)
And now...I HAVE MY PRECIOUS!! Muhahaha...hahahahahaha...hah aha...ha!!
You know every time I see a Brewster behind me now I have visions of that ugly little git flying it. Curse you Wmaker :lol
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:rofl
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Just noticed the second plane from the left in the last photo has the same Donald duck nose art on the right side of the plane just like the larger photo with it on the left. Most of these Dutch aircraft are kind of plain Jane's or the pictures are not close enough to get a good read on some of the nose art. The one with Donald on it may be the best choice if any one is considering any of my pictures.
I can't find a complete picture of this plane but I think if you look at all the insignia markings on all the 18TH squadron aircraft that I have posted from before in this thread, they seem to be the same from when they first painted on the Dutch markings. With this link I think you could just about have enough to do N5-128.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/umpCAM6YGTE.jpg)
http://www.airwarweb.net/NEI/nei18_b25.php
http://www.awm.gov.au/exhibitions/alliesinadversity/australia/nei.asp
I found some more stuff on Dutch B25's & I think enough info to skin the N5-128 aircraft with Donald Duck on the nose if any one is interested?
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/umpCAM6YGTE.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan1-7.jpg)
Second plane is N5-128 in the next two pics.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan2-11.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/ump2222.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/92_2_a1.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/92_2.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/italeri6250reviewbg_decals.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan5-3.jpg)
Not a lot to go off of in this pic just interesting that it is bare metal C model.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Dutch_B25.jpg)
A Dutch P-40 as well also not that good a photo.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan-1.jpg)
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Lets see if Krusty makes another appearance into this thread. On couple other threads about the Brewster where his overmodelling and what-not comments have been refuted, he just leaves the thread without a reply. I'm beginning to think that he's just trolling.
Wow.. now who's trolling?
EDIT: Deleted. Not worth it. You don't care and pretending I'm the villain makes you feel better.
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Anyone started that last Dutch B25 yet? I like the idea of DutchGuy skinning Dutch planes! :D
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Anyone started that last Dutch B25 yet? I like the idea of DutchGuy skinning Dutch planes! :D
None that I know of claim it now.
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Rgr that lyric! I will start with it today
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Wow.. now who's trolling?
EDIT: Deleted. Not worth it. You don't care and pretending I'm the villain makes you feel better.
Krusty, first off all, check the date of the posts...
Second, I'm not trolling. You are basically saying that Pyro purposefully overmodelled the Brewster or that the material me and other Finns provided for Pyro were somehow specially picked to show Brewster in better light than it deserves or that we just told Pyro how to model the plane and he somehow just complied. How do you think I will react?
You keep saying that the plane is overmodelled without producing a single shread of evidence to back up your claims.
Krusty, why don't you do some testing, find some data and then if you find something that is overmodelled, start a thread about it.
...Or you could just stay quiet about something you really don't have any knowledge at all to comment on?
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Man that B25 is taking me longer then expected, THATS A WHOLE LOT OF RIVETS!!
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I have no issue with the Brewster as a Finnish version. I have major issues with it being used in Pacific theater events. It grossly out performs the Buffaloes used in the Pacific theater and creates a situation very unfair to the Japanese side in those settings. I have been told to stuff it, that it isn't fun for the Americans if they have grossly under performing equipment. Oddly, these same people think it is fine and dandy to throw A6M2s vs F4U-1s or A6M5bs/Ki-61s vs F4U-1As, F6F-5s and P-38Ls. Somehow the historical aspect only matters when it is the Japanese that are grossly out geared by the Americans.
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Karnak: On that particular note, you and I agree.
As for Wmaker, I had a whole post typed up in response to you. Those that read my reply in the first 2-3 mnutes may have seen it. Then I thought "I'm not going to feed this troll" and deleted it.
I brought up some issues you glossed over in regards to the past thread and relevant issues about the topic at hand, but frankly you will never listen to anything that suggests your Finnish Brewster isn't the best turning, most stable, most lethal killing machine compared to any plane up to and including those made in 1944. I'm sorry you feel that way, because yours is the only nation that ever thought so.
Weight savings alone do NOT account for that much of a performance benefit. This has been shown and proven on many other aircraft in WW2, not the least of which was the P-40 airframe, the P-51 airframe, the P-47 airframe, and dozens of others where they tried saving weight but had very little impact on overall performances.
Then this "magical" model of the Brewster with minimal weight savings is suddenly more agile than a zero, tough and fast as a wildcat, and has very few flaws.
Riiiiight.
I'm not basing this off of assumptions. I'm basing it off of a large set of related facts regarding many other aircraft, the performance of similar F2A2s and heavier F2A3s, and many points.
Whereas the only data the Fins produce is the most optomistic out of any nation that flew them (and quite a lot were exported, with more powerful engines that countered the weight gain but still did not create what we have in-game).
I'll step off the soapbox now, and you can insult me all you want. You can say I'm ignorant (which I'm not, on this matter). You can call me "US-only" kind of player, which anybody who knows me can tell you I'm not. Go ahead. It does not refute the fact you have a limited and heavily biased source of flight testing.
As for "staying quiet" -- yeah, that really helps. There are a lot of things inaccurate about how planes are modeled in this game (P-51s, F4us, P-39s, Ki-84s, Ki-61s, a number of others as well), and "staying quiet" never works to get anything fixed, especially when it is known that something is "wrong." To their credit, HTC usually wises up to a lot of issues, especially regarding the flop-stall on the old 109s and 190s, and hopefully including the super-flaps of the current airflow model. HTC is like a glacier IMO. Might take them a while, but they'll eventually get there.
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Talk with numbers Krusty, do your research and do your math.
All you do again is babble aimlessly without being able to tell me a single thing that's wrong with the plane with any kind of objectivity.
You keep talking about these "facts" you base your "findings" on but for some odd reason you refuse to talk about actual quantfyable aspects of performance which you think are wrong.
You keep talking about these weight savings which alone tells me that you have very little understanding of the F2A -line of fighters. F2A-1 was a rather light fighter aircraft to begin with. F2A-2 and F2A-3 were developed later and don't really have anything to do with this discussion.
And no, it's not as fast as the Wildcat and it shouldn't be:
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/genchart.php?p1=101&p2=66&pw=0>ype=0)
Wildcat is the faster fighter at most altitudes by a clear margin. You can't get even elemental facts like this, which is easily double checked, correct. That pretty much sums up your credibility. Brewster is overall (considering the whole altitude band), with the I-16, the slowest fighter in the game.
Again,
Do testing, do research, study the results. If you find something wrong, type a thought out post about it asking Pyro to take a look into it.
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I found some more stuff on Dutch B25's & I think enough info to skin the N5-128 aircraft with Donald Duck on the nose if any one is interested?
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/umpCAM6YGTE.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan1-7.jpg)
Second plane is N5-128 in the next two pics.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan2-11.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/ump2222.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/92_2_a1.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/92_2.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/italeri6250reviewbg_decals.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan5-3.jpg)
Not a lot to go off of in this pic just interesting that it is bare metal C model.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Dutch_B25.jpg)
A Dutch P-40 as well also not that good a photo.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan-1.jpg)
Thanks for the usefull resources lyric!
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii193/betsiej_album/dutch1.jpg)
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii193/betsiej_album/dutch2.jpg)
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Nice one Mus, are the markings a bit bright?
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Friggin sweet Dutch :aok
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Looks good only issue is your missing some numerical markings that are near the red line.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/umpCAM6YGTE-1.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan1-14.jpg)
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Thanks guys!
lyric - These are older screenshots i made earlier, i didn't post them yet. But its send to HTC with the markings :)
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The super-uber-latewarmonster "Brewster" we have in-game would in no way resemble the slow, heavy, ungainly (*cough*realistic*cough*) B339E that the Dutch probably used, so I don't know if it's really honest to skin that as Dutch.
Krusty, I'm still waiting for you to make a rainbow or polka dot skin for that clown-wagon.
here are some pictures for insperation...
(http://bloodywellwrite.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/clown_car_shinny.jpg)
(http://techpaul.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/clown-car.jpg)
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YFB Looks freaking awesome Dutch.
oh and the brewster is a lame.
^
Troll
Just kidding in all honesty I wonder about the Brewster. Speed is not a question it is the Brewster's ability to retain E and flip on a dime.
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Thanks guys!
lyric - These are older screenshots i made earlier, i didn't post them yet. But its send to HTC with the markings :)
No. :D
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/musfibbed.png)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/musfibbed2.png)
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P40 Anyone?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/damopabe/3080039796/in/photostream/
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because its a p40n i'm pretty sure it wouldnt be allowed
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because its a p40n i'm pretty sure it wouldnt be allowed
Then a few of our current P40E skins should not be there as well as they are the N model?
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Once HTC updates the current P40's I'l be happy to skin the Snafu :aok
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Once HTC updates the current P40's I'l be happy to skin the Snafu :aok
A better picture of SNAFU & some other Dutch P40 options just in case you see something else you like better. :D
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/000CA0XCH37.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/000AD.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/000af-1-1.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/000AB.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/000AC.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/000-1.jpg)
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Dutch Dakota?
Just got done reading an old book that is no longer in print about the Japanese attacks on the town of Broome.
It is all fact & is about the Japanese attacks on that West Australian town & the downing of this Dakota as well as a bunch of other side stories. This book reads like an Indiana Jones movie. You have a former WWI Russian fighter pilot who was an ace back then,who is in command of the K.N.I.L.M Dakota during WWII & his transportation of refugees & dutch military personal & diamonds.
One of the Japanese Zero pilots that is shot down at the airport at Broome was actually involved in the raid at Pearl Harbour. In fact I think they could make a movie out of it. I have included just a few pages of the book.
I wanted to add all of the portion of a Dutch crewman of the Dakota but it is to long. So I only added the portion that I think makes this aircraft acceptable for inclusion to AHII.
Personlay I think this aircraft should qualify even though it was a commercial DC-3 that was commandeered & repainted by the Dutch military to evacuate Dutch nationals out of Java.
A nice bit of audio on this link.
http://www.abc.net.au/local/audio/2010/04/15/2873952.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PK-AFV
http://home.st.net.au/~dunn/wa02.htm
http://www.pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/dc-3/pk-afv.html
http://www.pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/dc-3/pk-afv/index.html
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/diamondc47-1.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/c47.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/diamondc471.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/diamondc472.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/diamondc473.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/diamondc474.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/diamondc475.jpg)
Thoughts comments?
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Some Dutch B-24's.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/DUTCHB24-1.png)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/dutchb24-2.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/dutchb242-1.png)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/dutchb241.jpg)
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What year were the B24's in service Lyric?
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What year were the B24's in service Lyric?
December 44 till December 45.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_B-24_Liberator_operators