Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Silat on August 18, 2009, 06:36:09 PM
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Anyone considering buying a computer from TilDeath feel free to talk to me about my bad experience.
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Anyone considering buying a computer from TilDeath feel free to talk to me about my bad experience.
I can see this thread is going to go well.
After you talk to Silat, you can talk to me and I will tell you about my great experience.
Fred
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I can see this thread is going to go well.
Yup...I'm going to be surprised if this doesn't get locked before it really gets started.
If I had a dollar for every "bad experience" that was reported on anything...I'd own Microsoft.
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It's the nature of business. Not every businessman is immune to disgruntled customers for various reasons. They're human too and they make mistakes; however, so is the consumer and how often does anger cloud good judgment and civility?
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heard nothing but good things from tildeath,not a good idea to post stuff like that
:mad:
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heard nothing but good things from tildeath,not a good idea to post stuff like that
:mad:
Ditto!
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I recently purchased a computer from TilDeath and having nothing but good things to say about my buying experience. He was professional, courteous, and stands behind his work. I am extremely pleased with my system and would not hesitate to buy from him again.
Thanks Death :aok
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Having seen some of Silats comments online I imagine nothing would make him happy either way. However since this is about buying computers I have to say that advertising here has always been a bad idea of TilDeaths.
With respect...
My 2c.
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It is my sincere belief that people SHOULD tell the truth & NOT keep it hidden, we've enough of that in politics. If Silat had a bad experience he should mention it & not hide facts, as some of the writers allude to, however I've never been a groupie.
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Yup...I'm going to be surprised if this doesn't get locked before it really gets started.
Now that would be a real shame for HTC to lock this thread and show favoritism for advertising, after all nobody suggests locking the thread when someone wants to brag about their great experience in purchasing from TD.
Having said that, I cant imagine what type of bad experience you might have had. Ive never purchased from TD but Ive built a great many myself and anybody with basic knowledge can do it even to top standards.
I know TD puts alot of time and effort in his builds and very thoroughly tests each one. Its not like hes Dell or HP building 10,000 a day. He builds each by hand and goes through each step carefully, as anybody building by hand would. So now I guess Im curious as to what the problem could be.
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It is my sincere belief that people SHOULD tell the truth & NOT keep it hidden, we've enough of that in politics. If Silat had a bad experience he should mention it & not hide facts, as some of the writers allude to, however I've never been a groupie.
So now we are groupies if we had a good experience. Bad should be stated, good not since one might be labeled a groupie. Kind of one sided don't ya think?
Fred
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There are times that HTC should shut down threads like this and others that are polar opposites of this one. Things like this do nothing to help the community at large.
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This is why Silat is mad and is my side of the problem
He bought a rig from me at the beginning of the year. At the time a very high end system. Spoke with Silat roughly 20 hours before he made his purchase then an additional 40+ after going over configurations and shooting the bull.
When Silat received his system the heatsink on the voltage regulators was dislodged, EVGA did not use the screws (we do not pull on factory installed heatsinks which would brake the thermaltape seal). I offered to make the repair and Silat asked if it is something he can do. I told him yes and to call EVGA and tell them what the problem is. They wanted to RMA the board he asked for the screws to be sent to him. They sent the wrong screws the first time but sent the correct ones the second time. He made the repair but broke off the thermal sensor attached to his CPU reporting back to the Fan and Temperature control.
In June his PSU went it was an OCZ, he contacted me and I arranged for him to be given an upgraded PC Power & Cooling PSU as a replacement (thank you Joel at OCZ). His PSU arrived then Silat called me stating the cables were not long enough to reach the MB. I told him to ship it to me and I would replace the PSU and send it back.
The system was shipped via UPS and almost a total loss when it arrived, I called Silat and I sent a damage report to UPS with and estimate for parts, time and expenses. UPS did not question the work to be done or the amount of the repair. I then told Silat I will not order parts until they are paid for. He promply sent the monies for the parts. I ordered the parts and got a call from Silat, he stated that they gave denied the claim and not to do anything with the system until we speak again. Two weeks pass and the system is on my shelf await a call. I then get an email from an AH Player asking em is something is wrong with my business and why have I not sent Silats system back. I replied to the email along with calling this person and explained to him what Silat did not tell him, that I was waiting for him to move forward. Silat then told me that he handed the CLAIM DENIED over to his attorney and that they now agree to pay the claim. I made the repairs and sent the system back (after Silat sent the monies for shipping) with a balance due for the labor. We (my company) then sent a PayPal request for the monies after the system was delivered back to Silat in good working order with out incident in the shipping. We stated in our request that he has 7 business days to make payment. At this point I received an email from Silat balking the labor cost and that it should be less. I told him to keep the money seems like he needed it more then I. [EDIT] There is no balance due, it was paid.[END]
The problem arises int he fact that I did do the repairs but did not save Overclock settings in the BIOS. The system is running at its rated speeds, Memory and CPU but there are no overclock settings. I use Overclocking as a sales tool when selling a new machine to a customer. This is a service I charge 250.00 and was not included on the bill to UPS from the damaged machine. This is what Silats problem with me is. He threatened to me that he would make this post to try and drag me and my work thru the mud, I told him make the post. I hope this makes him feel better.
Customers and non customers of mine from here and else where know how I am and that I bend over backwords to assist others with out asking for payment of any kind. Setting up home networks, trouble shooting someone elses systems, specking out systems for people to have someone else build or build themselves.
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I have spent my entire life in sales of some sort and I'm now retired. One thing I learned early on was that I was not going to satisfy everyone that purchased an item from me, occasionally the product will fail or the individual thought the product or service was inferior. This is just a fact of life and is going to happen.
I purchased a unit off of TilDeath in December of last year and the delivery company abused it in transit and the case was broken and the cooler dislodged off of the CPU. I made a call to TD and he arranged a pickup of the damaged unit and issued a credit for it. When he received the unit back he contacted me to see if I still wanted the unit - my answer, of course when is it going to be here.
Several days later he called to inform me that it was ready to be shipped and we completed the financial arrangements and the unit arrived this time in excellent condition. TD spent the better part of two to three hours with me on the phone setting this unit up, this is a service that I am not used to.
I have contacted TD on several occasions in reference to software/hardware issues that were not related to this unit and he was more than glad to assist me. I recommend TD to friends of mine several times a month and will by my next unit off of him. :rock :oak
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I have spent my entire life in sales of some sort and I'm now retired. One thing I learned early on was that I was not going to satisfy everyone that purchased an item from me, occasionally the product will fail or the individual thought the product or service was inferior. This is just a fact of life and is going to happen.
I've worked in retail, commercial, and technician work rebuiling and repairing battery packs (my part time college job). Nothing could be truer to the point.
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I purchased a Tempest case from TD for 2 reasons; One, it was a good price matching an online competitors price; and two, I wanted to meet the man I have heard so many good things about. I was not disappointed. He called me to make sure that my empty case arrived. Spent some time with me telling me how to manage my cables and then e-mailed me some photos showing the work involved. Folks, small business do not make a lot of money selling hardware, especially just a case. He went far beyond what you would ever expect.
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Without having spoken to Lew yet I think we have a problem rooted in the conversion of a commodity (which is what a computer is these days) to a "value added" product. Regardless of the final cost its very hard for the seller to get a fair return for the value added component since the market has been set to a large degree by the underlying commodity price point. At the same time the overwhelming conformity in the commodity price makes the buyer acutely aware he has paid a premium (even if its a small one). Now the reality is that 98% of the time everyone is reasonably happy. The buyer gets a better product and the seller offsets profit per unit with a volume closer to the commodity level.
However when the fan hits the processor (so to speak) we arrive at a bit of a conundrum. The buyer has very high expectations due to the value added component and has an expectation of superior service in the event of a problem. The seller who has done everything possible to provide an optimum experience for a very reasonable overall cost now has a dual edged problem. He's got an unexpected work load that he can't get fair value for...that detracts from his ability to focus on current clients.
Having run a couple of 100+employee/10MM companies I have to sympathize with TilDeath, at the same time the story as presented does raise a couple of questions that I present in a neutral manner here since like many regular followers of this particular bbs segment I am a potential customer.
My 1st action was to go visit TD's website. I was looking for a customer support tab with the intent of finding out how RMA issues were handled and what warranty is provided. I was somewhat surprised to find absolutely no warranty information of any kind. That only leaves the obviously vague but very broad implied Warranty that TD tends to portray here. This is obviously the initial point of conflict since no clearly defined service standard exists. To illustrate what the current standard is in the "customized mainstream" segment I picked a relatively new but highly regarded custom shop Digital Storm....here is there warranty policy...
http://www.digitalstormonline.com/warranty.asp (http://www.digitalstormonline.com/warranty.asp )
My 2nd point of confusion is determining the condition of the computer at delivery. From TD's comment it appears that both sides agree that the computer arrived with a problem. This raises two issues, 1st poor quality control which can happen to anyone. More importantly however is a question of policy and procedure, in no way would I allow Lew or anyone else to mess with what is still in effect "my box" without signing a full release. On the flip side I wouldn't even crack the case as a customer and I've built a hundred+ systems. I'd ask for a prepaid RMA and back it goes. This goes back to standardized build, burn and test procedures, something else I don't see anywhere on the website. I have no doubt that TD builds an excellent product of high value, but the lack of standardized procedure and QC creates the potential for this type of issue. Again as a point of contrast here is a lower end clearance product from Desert Storm....
http://www.digitalstormonline.com/comploadsavedsd.asp?id=320970
Look at the specific detail not just on the system but on the "terms of the deal". A better box, unquestionably not. But in the event of a problem (that annoying 2% that all business suffers with) I'd feel much better. For $800 thats a decent system and a lot of "piece of mind".
My third area of interest is in the actual post return work and is where I do have an issue with TD's apparent perspective. From TD's post I'm drawing a few assumptions (always a bad idea:)):
1) Both sides agree the system arrived "broken"
2) Both sides agree it was returned even "more broken" (by UPS not Silat)
3) TD provided a "bill of repairs" to Lew for UPS
4) UPS eventually paid Lew and in turn Lew payed TD
So....
As far as I'm concerned Lew has a complete and reasonable expectation that the system would be repaired and returned to him in full and complete working order and customized as per the original order. Since the machine arrived in a defective state all subsequent events flow from that original "trouble ticket". I can build a system 100% equal to TDs box (including drilling etc in 2 hours or less). The real value is in the tweak and I respect the skill and effort involved. Its unfortunate that a problem occurred and on TD's margins I feel his pain....but business is business and based on TD's comments Silat is actually 100% correct based on TD's outline of events.
Lew had every expectation that the system would arrive in good order or that TD would make it right at his expense. Nothing subsequent to the initial issue changed that fact. This is not an attack on TD in anyway, I recognize that $#!^ happens. While it would be unfair to blame TD its beyond reason to somehow make any of this Silats fault, especially given TD's own above and beyond comments here. If it was me I'd be upset also.
The bottom line here is simple, any business is built one customer at a time and in the end the 90%+ you do right is irrelevant. A business grows via well defined policies and procedures and attention to detail. It's the "other 2%" that will reach out and bite you. The trick to getting from where TD is to where he wants to go lies in how he deals with these issues. The truth is anybody can build a computer (even a tricked out one) but few people can build a successful profitable business that lasts. To me this is just a typical bump on the road from where you were to where you want to go and I'm sure after proper contemplation TD will do right by Lew. In the end its just good business...
As a final point here is the marketing "ain't we great" video from the other guys. One thing very familiar to me is the QC checklist. I've purchased a number of high end boxes during my career and I've never got a custom build without a ton of QC paperwork attached. What do you normally get with one of his builds?
http://www.digitalstormonline.com/videodsdifference.asp (http://www.digitalstormonline.com/videodsdifference.asp)
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I have gotten a case and ps from td. He has always been professional and courteous, and more than willing to help a noob like me. I will always recommend him to my friends and family.
Semp
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(please read entire post)
Back in January/February I knew Tildeath was building machines but I was very hesitant from buying a machine from someone I never looked in the eye. I talked to many of people (some on the phone as well) that vouched for Tildeath's character and I took a chance (even though I had a new wife and daughter the previous year) and purchased a system from TilDeath, fortunately my experience with him was absolutely the best. There was a delay in the machine being shipped only because TilDeath's suppliers didn't have the things in stock and rushed shipped them to him. Rich also didn't charge me for the build because he had initially misquoted me and repeatedly refused to take the money for the build itself.
I repaid his service by sending him countless customers, from ground war tank drivers, base taking horde squadron members, and dueling fighter jocks. I had to make sure I didn't 'advertise' for TilDeath when acting as a Trainer in the TA but I did so as a 'word of mouth' when I wasn't online in some official capacity. I checked in with all the people I know that bought from TilDeath to not only make sure they were happy but it allowed me to keep up on the new hardware changes. I feel that when I recommend someone I feel my own credability is on the line and I like to follow up afterwards.
Everyone had been satisfied to date, except for my very old and dear friend Silat, there was so many issues and with shipping back and forth I feel it would of soured any possibility of any feeling of a positive sale. I feel a lot of the bad feeling could be smoothed over by sending Silat the overclocking parameters for his machine. If my monetary situation was different I'd purchase them from Tildeath, not only to smooth things over but also to keep an unblemished friendship.
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Very well anylised and stated humble. Silat should have gotten what he paid for and without paying any more except maybe some shipping charges. TilDeath should have never let him open that box and just taken it on the chin for the repairs (or let his vendors take it on the chin like a real business would). This thread was inevitable.
Regardless, I've always thought it was a bad idea that HTC let Tildeath use the Hardware and Software forums as his personal business marketing tool. I sometimes wonder how much HT is getting under the table and if he is, why play in such a small pond? HT... the real money's not with TilDeath, but I'm sure you know that. Also, Skuzzy has stated in the past that hardware can't be listed or sold on this forum but has totally turned a blind eye to TilDeath's overt marketing to the AH community. Maybe the kick-backs aren't making it to HT at all.
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See Rule #2
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I think a little "advertising" (if you could really call it that) is a small price to pay for the help and knowledge TilDeath provides.
Whether it be advising setup, troubleshooting, upgrades, new builds, store bought or custom computers he brings a lot to the table.
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The Aces High Forums never ceases to amaze me. Reading these forums I hear things such as integrity and honor which many of the older players believe should be the foundation for this game. I read how one should give back to the community to support the game and in whole make the community stronger. Then I read some of the crap in this thread.
I followed the Hardware Forum for a long time before I decided to purchase a system from Rich. I placed a couple of posts asking what kind of system I should purchase and/or have built, and made it clear that I am not a computer geek. The answers I received were on the most part ridiculous. The first thing I was always asked was how much do I have to spend. That was never a question that I asked, but many seemed so fixated on it. When I asked about what specific hardware I should purchase, the answers were so far over my head, that I just gave up. I made it perfectly clear that I do not want to learn how to build a computer, or do the exhaustive research to find out what hardware would be needed to play this game.
I have been following Rich's posts in the section for some time, and I decided based on a couple of recommendations to speak to him. After 5 minutes I knew this was the guy who I would have build my system. He spoke in a language that I could understand, and answered my stupid questions. There is no telling how much time he spent with me on the phone, matter of fact, I don't know how he gets any work done if he spends this kind of time with all his customers.
He gave me a list of hardware for my computer and the price to build the unit. I did go to several websites to check the prices of the hardware he quoted, and I could not purchase the items for the price he was quoting me. His labor is $150.00 plus shipping. I hardly think HTC is getting some major kick back on this.
What I like best, it was like doing business the old fashion way with our word and a hand shake. You don't find many businesses these days that operate like that. Now they have to get lawyers to write their warranty disclosers.
I don't see where Rich is mass advertising on this forum. He offers a service and either you take it or leave it. After speaking to him I never felt pressured to purchase a system from him. Even I know in business there is always going to be a dissatisfied customer. I went to Digital Storm Reviews, and guess what, they have some dissatisfied customers to.
The point is, the way this thread was posted by the OP its intent was clear that he wanted this to be an issue. He could have simply posted what problems or issues he had and Rich would have responded and the thread would have died in short order. Those that read the thread who may or may not be thinking of purchasing a system from Rich could make their own decision.
Now we have some telling others how to run their business, and making accusations of under the table dealings. If I was Rich, and after reading some of the crap in this thread, I would simply stop providing his services to the community. I don't know if he will or not, but at least that's what I would do, but then again I'm just a dumb country boy who never owned or ran a 100+ employee business. I'm just glad I have his number before this happened because he will be the one I purchase my next computer from.
This is MY OPINION not that of any other. :salute
Fred
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Very well anylised and stated humble. Silat should have gotten what he paid for and without paying any more except maybe some shipping charges. TilDeath should have never let him open that box and just taken it on the chin for the repairs (or let his vendors take it on the chin like a real business would). This thread was inevitable.
Regardless, I've always thought it was a bad idea that HTC let Tildeath use the Hardware and Software forums as his personal business marketing tool. I sometimes wonder how much HT is getting under the table and if he is, why play in such a small pond? HT... the real money's not with TilDeath, but I'm sure you know that. Also, Skuzzy has stated in the past that hardware can't be listed or sold on this forum but has totally turned a blind eye to TilDeath's overt marketing to the AH community. Maybe the kick-backs aren't making it to HT at all.
You know, I bust my butt trying to help people out here everyday. Not because it is my job, but because I am firmly convinced offering the best in customer service is an added value for HiTech Creations. I also take a lot of pride in my work. While not always successful at making everyone happy, I know I do the best I can.
To come in here and read these baseless and false accusations really just makes me a bit angry. Reading the forums is a secondary function for me. As such, I may go a day or two between reading a few threads. And then I may selectively read threads. It is all based on how much time I have.
So here I come into a thread where a baseless accusation is made impugning my very character and the character of HiTech Creations. A complaint about us turning a blind eye. Ok, so the first thing I do is check to see how many "Report to the moderator" complaints I have. To my surprise, there is not one complaint from the accuser. Not one complaint from anyone.
This is akin to someone walking by a home, witnessing a person setting said home on fire, then walking off (never calling 911) and three days after the fact, complaining to the local news the fire department must have been paid off to allow that person to get away with it. People like that cannot be bothered to report something wrong, but are quick to jump on the accusation band wagon.
I do not know about you, but I have zero respect for anyone like that.
HiTech Creations does not allow anyone to sell or advertise services or product on our bulletin board. If you see anything like that, you are free to hit the "Report to moderator" link. It does not cost anything and there are absolutely no detrimental effects in doing so.