Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Clutz on August 25, 2009, 09:26:09 PM
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HighTech makes graphic updates because they think it will keep customers. If it looks more cool, it will be more cool. This is nonsense. There is an old expression. "Less is more".
Why add all this crap? You people can not even process over the internet the information from my fighter stick. Now, you are going to add water that looks like a quilt my grandmother crocheted back in 1925? What are you all, stupid?
If you want customers, and if you want people to stop leaving the "game", make it a game.
I read on the bulletin boards years ago, some guy said, "man , I get home form work, and all I want to jump online and have some fun fights".
There is no "fun", at least not for me. Only stupidity. What fun is it for 10 green guys to chase one red guy, or 10 red guys to chase one green guy?
This is why people leave the game. I spent 3 hrs tonight and not a single fight that made any sense what so ever. There was only, as usual, nothing but stupidity.
If you want customers, HighTech, make it a game. Present a challenge your customers can learn and grow into. A game is not a game if it does not make sense and if there is no "challenge". Challenge is what to "game" means. It has always been this way. This is what needs fixing, not the graphics.
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Those graphics were 90s, HTC needs to keep up with times.
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In
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HiTech can't hear you inside his bank vault. Business only change their business model when they start making less money. Less might be more in most situations, but never with the dollar.
:rofl < Hitech laughing all the way to the bank
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IN!
The game is a blast, you probably just suck at it, Clutz. :aok
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IN! :D
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HighTech makes graphic updates because they think it will keep customers. If it looks more cool, it will be more cool. This is nonsense. There is an old expression. "Less is more".
Why add all this crap? You people can not even process over the internet the information from my fighter stick. Now, you are going to add water that looks like a quilt my grandmother crocheted back in 1925? What are you all, stupid?
If you want customers, and if you want people to stop leaving the "game", make it a game.
I read on the bulletin boards years ago, some guy said, "man , I get home form work, and all I want to jump online and have some fun fights".
There is no "fun", at least not for me. Only stupidity. What fun is it for 10 green guys to chase one red guy, or 10 red guys to chase one green guy?
This is why people leave the game. I spent 3 hrs tonight and not a single fight that made any sense what so ever. There was only, as usual, nothing but stupidity.
If you want customers, HighTech, make it a game. Present a challenge your customers can learn and grow into. A game is not a game if it does not make sense and if there is no "challenge". Challenge is what to "game" means. It has always been this way. This is what needs fixing, not the graphics.
This is as awesome post. Please list the games you have developed so we can check them out. Thanks!
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what the hell, im bored, i'll bite. You wont land me unless you're using double barbed hooks.
HighTech makes graphic updates because they think it will keep customers. If it looks more cool, it will be more cool. This is nonsense. There is an old expression. "Less is more".
how about a little less indignation from you then? Maybe you would achieve more?
Why add all this crap? You people can not even process over the internet the information from my fighter stick. Now, you are going to add water that looks like a quilt my grandmother crocheted back in 1925? What are you all, stupid?
Whine 1: I stick stir and it makes me die
Whine 2: My cpu/graphics card/eyes need updating and that is hitech's fault
Whine 3: I'm paying money and not having fun, that makes hitech stupid
If you want customers, and if you want people to stop leaving the "game", make it a game.
I play a great 'game' quite often, Its very simple yet clearly a brilliant idea. Players from round the world can hook up to the internet and choose from a wide range of motorised weapons to kill each other with. I've seen other 'games' where two people just hit a plastic ball across a table with small wooden bats. Far as I know there have been no major updates to the concept of 'table-tennis' since people started selling the means to play it to enthusiasts.
I read on the bulletin boards years ago, some guy said, "man , I get home form work, and all I want to jump online and have some fun fights".
There is no "fun", at least not for me. Only stupidity. What fun is it for 10 green guys to chase one red guy, or 10 red guys to chase one green guy?
Stereotypical whine that has been done to death here. It's not the 10 green guy's fault that you pressented all 10 of them witha chance to kill you. There is an arena set aside for honourable combat. In the Ma what makes a show of courtesy worthwhile is that it is rare.
This is why people leave the game. I spent 3 hrs tonight and not a single fight that made any sense what so ever. There was only, as usual, nothing but stupidity.
Most people either leave beacuse they cannot justify spending the money on it or because they cannot run the game well enough on their computer. The gameplay, while continously whined about, is not the main reason people leave this game.
If you want customers, HighTech, make it a game. Present a challenge your customers can learn and grow into. A game is not a game if it does not make sense and if there is no "challenge". Challenge is what to "game" means. It has always been this way. This is what needs fixing, not the graphics.
You have the challenge you desire, win a 10 vs 1 fight. go to it.
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Clutz came from warbirds and he couldn't find a fight
Facepalm
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"Nothing to see here, move along..."
Dude, are you serious or was this one bad troll attempt?
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Because it will bring more new people oppose to the small % that have to leave, i mean look at IL2 great graphics way better than old ah. If you we someone looking for a fun game witch one would you chose.
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I just want to poINt out I had nothing to do with the OPs post and regret the use of my name:
If you want customers, HighTech, make it a game. Present a challenge your customers can learn and grow into. A game is not a game if it does not make sense and if there is no "challenge". Challenge is what to "game" means. It has always been this way. This is what needs fixing, not the graphics.
This slander must stop. :salute
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SNIP
Nice break down bat, too bad he probably wont read any of it.
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HighTech makes graphic updates because they think it will keep customers. If it looks more cool, it will be more cool. This is nonsense. There is an old expression. "Less is more".
Why add all this crap? You people can not even process over the internet the information from my fighter stick. Now, you are going to add water that looks like a quilt my grandmother crocheted back in 1925? What are you all, stupid?
If you want customers, and if you want people to stop leaving the "game", make it a game.
I read on the bulletin boards years ago, some guy said, "man , I get home form work, and all I want to jump online and have some fun fights".
There is no "fun", at least not for me. Only stupidity. What fun is it for 10 green guys to chase one red guy, or 10 red guys to chase one green guy?
This is why people leave the game. I spent 3 hrs tonight and not a single fight that made any sense what so ever. There was only, as usual, nothing but stupidity.
If you want customers, HighTech, make it a game. Present a challenge your customers can learn and grow into. A game is not a game if it does not make sense and if there is no "challenge". Challenge is what to "game" means. It has always been this way. This is what needs fixing, not the graphics.
Amazing...all that and not one coherent intelligent word.
Must have gotten miffed because he got gangbanged during titanic tuesday...the mid war arena had some nice fights going on with only 41 people...didn't see you in there.
Go ask mommy for another plate of twinkies and turn teletubbies back on...you're banned from the computer.
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I'm thinking you are upset about wrinkling the corners of your pokemon cards. 3 hours you have play under your belt. Wow, you must have had the time to try every feature of the game. This is not falcon 4.0. It's not mscfs3. You also tried it out during titanic tuesday when everyone is one arena. That means the map is loaded with good and bad guys all over the place. Stop to fight a single target you better make it quick because his friends aren't far away. Get shot down? Hey it's a game grab another plane and find the plane and fighting style you like. Stay away from the hordes until you learn what your ride and the bad guy can do. This isn't f first person shooter game it's simply planes and vehicles vs eachother. The learning curve is steep so you either commit or make sure you have a safety rope so you don't fall off the cliff. You need help in the game? There's guys hanging out in the training arena that even after an hour will give you the know how to give the bad guys the business. I'm not a fanboy by any means but this is a community run group of people and players that even the creators themselves will bend over backwards to help with even the most mundane issues with your computer if you need it. The game needed a little facelift. They worked on it and are still putting out patches to chase bugs. This is not the final draft of this update so what you are seeing as far as quilted water won't be like that for long. Yes there's hording, it's also summer. Kids are here playing and they all want to get that kill IN. The game mechanics are for the guy who just wants to fight another plane or vehicle. It's also for the guy who wants to take bases and win the war. You called a whole community of people stupid pretty much. You called the guys who make the game stupid. Do you expect us to take you seriously? Maybe you need to stop squeeking, go pop some pimples, or give it another try for longer than 3 hours. You want to see some cool stuff in the game look me up this Wednesday and thursday when I'm on, my name is at the bottom. Until then calm down and understand that to us the fun is also just making friends of the enemies you just got shot down by.
Don't make us give you the shush finger. Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time.
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HighTech makes graphic updates because they think it will keep customers. If it looks more cool, it will be more cool. This is nonsense. There is an old expression. "Less is more".
Why add all this crap? You people can not even process over the internet the information from my fighter stick. Now, you are going to add water that looks like a quilt my grandmother crocheted back in 1925? What are you all, stupid?
If you want customers, and if you want people to stop leaving the "game", make it a game.
I read on the bulletin boards years ago, some guy said, "man , I get home form work, and all I want to jump online and have some fun fights".
There is no "fun", at least not for me. Only stupidity. What fun is it for 10 green guys to chase one red guy, or 10 red guys to chase one green guy?
This is why people leave the game. I spent 3 hrs tonight and not a single fight that made any sense what so ever. There was only, as usual, nothing but stupidity.
If you want customers, HighTech, make it a game. Present a challenge your customers can learn and grow into. A game is not a game if it does not make sense and if there is no "challenge". Challenge is what to "game" means. It has always been this way. This is what needs fixing, not the graphics.
:O :rofl :rofl
Go play Fighter Ace
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Stop poking your keyboard so rapidly.
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How can you blame the people that create the game for the tactics that that the players use? If you get ganged by 10+ people then you are at fault as much as the gangers....HTC has nothing to do with that. They split arenas to try and avoid these things, but the pack mentality is that of the users.
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Every single one of you are missing the point. Go back and read the initial topic.
Players are leaving the game. Most of the old school vets are gone. There are fewer players today then there was 4 years ago. I am pretty sure about that.
How many play the game now? 4K? Maybe 5K? That is what it has always been since I have been around.
My point is this. The planes and all are so very cool, but there is not a gaming atmosphere in which to use them.This frustrates me. I may be out and about in my dweeb spit, and find a killer in a p38, and to me, wow, that means game on, fun stuff. Yet, 3 turns into it, 8 morons fly into it and game is not on. There never was a game.
Graphic updates will not keep people from leaving this game. The game needs fixing. Not the graphics.
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aceshigh is quite unique in the genre of aviation sims in that you are not waiting for anything ever. You log in, you choose a field, you take off. 24 hours a day.
That is the game, always has been that way. If the game was the problem then all the people supposedly leaving right now should have left years ago because the game has not changed. This is the game, enjoy it or make your own. (just dont ask for player funding here, it wont go down well)
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You people can not even process over the internet the information from my fighter stick.
There is no possible way anyone can think this is how it really works. If you had left this out, I would have believed this was a real complaint, not a troll.
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Yes getting a good fight spoiled by friend or foe does suck. What would take the gang mentality out of the players can you think of though? We have bases that get captured and people get together to capture it. Cvs need sunk and someones gotta do it. These targets alone attract alot of people at the same time. The fights are over bases where people launch from and the blood in the water starts to attract the bad guys. No matter what the fight will get low if it hasn't started out that way in the first place. If you aren't keeping an eye out for the friends of the lone bad guy you are fighting you will be shot down if you don't leave or get the advantage over them somehow. This is a three country fight on maps that don't have targets that take the fight away from the bases. The bases are part of the game. Take them away and well, my p51 won't be able to have a place to crash on. Seriously how long have you been playing anyway? Really, not trying to be rude with my question.
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Every single one of you are missing the point. Go back and read the initial topic.
Players are leaving the game. Most of the old school vets are gone. There are fewer players today then there was 4 years ago. I am pretty sure about that.
How many play the game now? 4K? Maybe 5K? That is what it has always been since I have been around.
My point is this. The planes and all are so very cool, but there is not a gaming atmosphere in which to use them.This frustrates me. I may be out and about in my dweeb spit, and find a killer in a p38, and to me, wow, that means game on, fun stuff. Yet, 3 turns into it, 8 morons fly into it and game is not on. There never was a game.
Graphic updates will not keep people from leaving this game. The game needs fixing. Not the graphics.
You have no numbers. You base everything on your poor SA.
BTW I use a CH Fighter Stick, Pro Pedals, and Pro Throttle..... all work well.
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Yes getting a good fight spoiled by friend or foe does suck. What would take the gang mentality out of the players can you think of though? We have bases that get captured and people get together to capture it. Cvs need sunk and someones gotta do it. These targets alone attract alot of people at the same time. The fights are over bases where people launch from and the blood in the water starts to attract the bad guys. No matter what the fight will get low if it hasn't started out that way in the first place. If you aren't keeping an eye out for the friends of the lone bad guy you are fighting you will be shot down if you don't leave or get the advantage over them somehow. This is a three country fight on maps that don't have targets that take the fight away from the bases. The bases are part of the game. Take them away and well, my p51 won't be able to have a place to crash on. Seriously how long have you been playing anyway? Really, not trying to be rude with my question.
James, with all due respect .. paragraphs are your friend :salute
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. I've seen other 'games' where two people just hit a plastic ball across a table with small wooden bats. Far as I know there have been no major updates to the concept of 'table-tennis' since people started selling the means to play it to enthusiasts.
Nice! :aok
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Oh my. :uhoh
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My point is this. The planes and all are so very cool, but ...
What are you smoking? Take a look at the Macchi's graphics, for example. They are ten years old ... butt-ugly.
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Clutz who?? :rofl
The game is fun for a lot of people. Just because you dont like it doesn't mean its bad, or made poorly. It simply means you dont like it. If you are such a great business man/ game developer, I invite you to do better. Until then, stop trolling and poisoning this board with your unwarranted attacks.
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HighTech makes graphic updates because they think it will keep customers. If it looks more cool, it will be more cool. This is nonsense. There is an old expression. "Less is more".
Why add all this crap? You people can not even process over the internet the information from my fighter stick. Now, you are going to add water that looks like a quilt my grandmother crocheted back in 1925? What are you all, stupid? If you want customers, and if you want people to stop leaving the "game", make it a game. I read on the bulletin boards years ago, some guy said, "man , I get home form work, and all I want to jump online and have some fun fights". There is no "fun", at least not for me. Only stupidity. What fun is it for 10 green guys to chase one red guy, or 10 red guys to chase one green guy?
This is why people leave the game. I spent 3 hrs tonight and not a single fight that made any sense what so ever. There was only, as usual, nothing but stupidity.
If you want customers, HighTech, make it a game. Present a challenge your customers can learn and grow into. A game is not a game if it does not make sense and if there is no "challenge". Challenge is what to "game" means. It has always been this way. This is what needs fixing, not the graphics.
That is Irony at it's finest.
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James, with all due respect .. paragraphs are your friend :salute
is that all you have? At least make a comment about the post! You and your grammar nazi brotherhood annoy me more than the crybaby hoard victoms. :aok
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Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
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I like this game, I think the new graphics and planes are nice.
The continuing updates make the latest version run better for me.
If I don't want to fight the hoarde I stay away from the big red bar and find somewhere else to go.
As the game/my lack of skill/just rotten luck sometimes P me off, I switch off and do something more constructive rather than come cwying (boohoo) and stamping my ickle feet on the bbs.
If you don't like the game, don't play. If it annoys you that much, don't play. It's simple.
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IN....
See I Told you guys that The PUTZ, could not write code
:devil :devil :devil
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This is as awesome post. Please list the games you have developed so we can check them out. Thanks!
Shuffler, how many national-level policy decisions have you presided over, advised on, or effected in any meaningful way?
None? And yet you still vote for president? I submit that, by your own yardstick, you are not worthy of the right to vote in national-level elections.
I understand that the OP, by any estimation, is a whiny troll, but one must be careful not to give them oppertunities to enforce the fiction that they're being unjustly persecuted.
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It's very humorous to see an unknown get doggy-piled for making the same whine that the rest of you are so fond of. :lol He did express it poorly, but I've seen the same argument win all sorts of nods and approval when it's typed on a different keyboard.
Not going to agree or disagree with the OP, but the side-switching here is pathetic.
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Just wow. :uhoh
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I do find it amasing that people complain about something, which, they can change the situation thats causing them to complain, for instance;
Often I see people complaining about being vulched,ganged and picked from a airfield that the other country is trying to take,
people complaining that they dive down and blow their alt advantage to attack one enemy plane, when he has 10 friendly players around him..then complains about being ganged.
its simple, if your getting frustrated, take off from a near by field and gain a bit of advantage, if theres to many enemy planes around dont engage and egress, or if the hordes are frustrating you, look for smaller dar. Nothing forces people to be sheep and follow the horde around.
by applying a little bit of tactics and SA, you can achieve alot more from this game, which also you have to remember the most inportant thing " its a game" if your not having fun, try a different style of playing the game.
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Wow Clutz! HTC is going to love you this morning. :lol
What I get out of your post is that you're frustrated at what you see as crappy game play by the players. HTC isn't to blame for that.
I bet you're one of these guys that takeoff from a capped field and then cry when you get ganged :lol
Change your tactics to suit your style. Because alot of folks hoard and hang around the big dar bar doesn't mean you have too. Watch the map and go to the small dars if you're looking for the good fights. :salute
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People come, and people go, this is a fact of life.
AH has at least the same player base that it had 3 -4 years ago, while every other series flight sim is in serious trouble. New 2 week trials do seem to be down a little bit from the past, but considering that we were getting a lot of 9 - 11 yr olds that really doesn't concern me much.
Your issue with the game updates has more to do with your lousy computer than HTC's product.
Same as your issues with gameplay has more to do with your skill level, than anything else.
The really sweet thing about AH is that you can play it any way you choose. But those choices will
have significant impacts on how long you live.
AH is not something that you master in a week, a month, or sometimes even in a year. Many of us have been here since it started, some of us still under the same names. There is n o t h i n g else in air combat genre that even comes close to AH.
Also this community is a shining beacon of what is best in online experiences.
However it does expect you not to call us all stupid in your first sentence.
But just to show you absolute positive proof, I'll make you a sweetheart deal. Show up in the Training Arena some afternoon, say 3 - 5 central and ask for Ghosth. We'll see what we can teach you in under half an hour, no charge, open invitation, just show up with a smile on your face and leave your ego and attitude at the door please. Who knows, you may find a whole new way to have fun.
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This is the best game out there of it's type.It's the the way some people think they need to tell people how to play it.Don't like it move along
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People come, and people go, this is a fact of life.
AH has at least the same player base that it had 3 -4 years ago, while every other series flight sim is in serious trouble. New 2 week trials do seem to be down a little bit from the past, but considering that we were getting a lot of 9 - 11 yr olds that really doesn't concern me much.
Your issue with the game updates has more to do with your lousy computer than HTC's product.
Same as your issues with gameplay has more to do with your skill level, than anything else.
The really sweet thing about AH is that you can play it any way you choose. But those choices will
have significant impacts on how long you live.
AH is not something that you master in a week, a month, or sometimes even in a year. Many of us have been here since it started, some of us still under the same names. There is n o t h i n g else in air combat genre that even comes close to AH.
Also this community is a shining beacon of what is best in online experiences.
However it does expect you not to call us all stupid in your first sentence.
But just to show you absolute positive proof, I'll make you a sweetheart deal. Show up in the Training Arena some afternoon, say 3 - 5 central and ask for Ghosth. We'll see what we can teach you in under half an hour, no charge, open invitation, just show up with a smile on your face and leave your ego and attitude at the door please. Who knows, you may find a whole new way to have fun.
Well stated. :salute +1
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HighTech makes graphic updates because they think it will keep customers. If it looks more cool, it will be more cool. This is nonsense. There is an old expression. "Less is more".
Why add all this crap? You people can not even process over the internet the information from my fighter stick. Now, you are going to add water that looks like a quilt my grandmother crocheted back in 1925? What are you all, stupid?
If you want customers, and if you want people to stop leaving the "game", make it a game.
I read on the bulletin boards years ago, some guy said, "man , I get home form work, and all I want to jump online and have some fun fights".
There is no "fun", at least not for me. Only stupidity. What fun is it for 10 green guys to chase one red guy, or 10 red guys to chase one green guy?
This is why people leave the game. I spent 3 hrs tonight and not a single fight that made any sense what so ever. There was only, as usual, nothing but stupidity.
If you want customers, HighTech, make it a game. Present a challenge your customers can learn and grow into. A game is not a game if it does not make sense and if there is no "challenge". Challenge is what to "game" means. It has always been this way. This is what needs fixing, not the graphics.
"I bloody cant believe that I said that"! (http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr149/Rich46yo/nevill-1.jpg)
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HighTech makes graphic updates because they think it will keep customers. If it looks more cool, it will be more cool. This is nonsense. There is an old expression. "Less is more".
Why add all this crap? You people can not even process over the internet the information from my fighter stick. Now, you are going to add water that looks like a quilt my grandmother crocheted back in 1925? What are you all, stupid?
If you want customers, and if you want people to stop leaving the "game", make it a game.
I read on the bulletin boards years ago, some guy said, "man , I get home form work, and all I want to jump online and have some fun fights".
There is no "fun", at least not for me. Only stupidity. What fun is it for 10 green guys to chase one red guy, or 10 red guys to chase one green guy?
This is why people leave the game. I spent 3 hrs tonight and not a single fight that made any sense what so ever. There was only, as usual, nothing but stupidity.
If you want customers, HighTech, make it a game. Present a challenge your customers can learn and grow into. A game is not a game if it does not make sense and if there is no "challenge". Challenge is what to "game" means. It has always been this way. This is what needs fixing, not the graphics.
i think you're a bit off base here,.....and would get hit with the banstick if i were to type here what i think right now.........
but on the fun part.......go to mw arena. there's almost always good fights there. :aok
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victoms. :aok
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You just cant please everyone. You would go insane trying.
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James, with all due respect .. paragraphs are your friend :salute
I usually have better writing skills from my pc. Then again I rarely even have a thing to say in here.
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I just want to poINt out I had nothing to do with the OPs post and regret the use of my name:
This slander must stop. :salute
That is too funny! :lol :lol
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HighTech makes graphic updates because they think it will keep customers. If it looks more cool, it will be more cool. This is nonsense. There is an old expression. "Less is more".
Why add all this crap? You people can not even process over the internet the information from my fighter stick. Now, you are going to add water that looks like a quilt my grandmother crocheted back in 1925? What are you all, stupid?
If you want customers, and if you want people to stop leaving the "game", make it a game.
I read on the bulletin boards years ago, some guy said, "man , I get home form work, and all I want to jump online and have some fun fights".
There is no "fun", at least not for me. Only stupidity. What fun is it for 10 green guys to chase one red guy, or 10 red guys to chase one green guy?
This is why people leave the game. I spent 3 hrs tonight and not a single fight that made any sense what so ever. There was only, as usual, nothing but stupidity.
If you want customers, HighTech, make it a game. Present a challenge your customers can learn and grow into. A game is not a game if it does not make sense and if there is no "challenge". Challenge is what to "game" means. It has always been this way. This is what needs fixing, not the graphics.
I'll bite...
Clutz, to start with, the graphics DID need updating. Badly. Not just to make it pretty, but to be able to add features into the game that HT himself has said he'd like to add. For instance, wouldn't it be cool to be able to take a PT boat and LVTs up a river and attack a base from a completely unexpected angle? The old Terrain system would not allow that (not sure the new one does, just saying for sure the old one did not). HT said he'd like to add something like bump-mapping to the aircraft themselves, which increases not only graphics but immersion as the metal on the aircraft look more like 3d pieces than painted on pieces. This steps them a little closer to that. Not to mention, when advertising your game, if it does NOT look modern enough a LOT of people equate it with unprofessional, and will not put money towards it. That hurts the bottom line.
I can understand being frustrated with the gameplay, but instead of attacking HT, why not give suggestions how to FIX it? That 10 v 1 ganging you are speaking of isn't something HT has put into the game to inconvinience you, it's the concious decision of 11 people (yes, you as well) to get involved in a very lopsided situation. Make suggestions as to how to eliminate this. Make suggestions as to how to improve the "challenge" (and I wish I could fly as well as you as 10 v 1 is a hell of a challenge to me, even if I'm in the 10 I stink so bad).
Stop making the problems worse, and try to think of solutions. Think of it this way, if you were investing 15/month into a stock, wouldn't you rather do what you could to help the stock improve, than to try to tear it down?
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hiho clutz
cant believe it,
we get an update where HTC realy brought things into the right direction, 7 patches fixed most bugs very quickly. And you comes up and let the pants down, complains about things you didnt understand. :huh
Games like AH2 are not to learn in 12 month, you need time, much time, and still after flying several years, there are things to improve. THATS the fun of it. But if you are unwilling to learn, dont beat on HTC. :mad:
here are some simple things to follow ind the right order:
- learn how to setup you gear correctly
- setup the views
- learn the flight basics (takeoff , landing, follow the right direction)
- learn basic ACM (split S, immelman, cuban 8, hi Yoyo, low Yoyo, scissors, circleclimb, breakturns, flat turns)
- learn TB vs BZ tactics
- join a squadron which reflect you idea of playing AH2
- learn grouped ACM basics (brackets, drags, splits, merges and more)
- learn how to get the con into the position where you will have the 100% shot on him
- learn the correct timing for long snap deflection shooting
- lead groups of up to 4 elements into the dogfight, and lead them out of it, grouped disengagement
- lead scenarios as CO
-bring in yourself into the community , make skins, make videos, report noobish post like you started here :D
if you do so, and you will not have any second fun, i will buy you a great german beer to forget it all
<S>
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... And make sure your windows installation is as clean as possible.
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I have been around a long time and Dale has always found a way to make the game work for me and my low end machine even with making improvement to the grafics, I thought this time I would have to let it go but he came through again. If you dont like the game and are not having fun then just leave, I am sure there won't be that many that will miss you as there will always be someone to take your place.
I have seen a lot of players come and go, since 2000 and some of them I miss a lot, some I don't, but if you aren't having fun why stay and gripe about it? I have been so frustrated with this game that at times I have thrown things! (2 moniters, and several ch fighter sticks have been replaced).
I have even said I was quitting but then the next day, I am right back up dieing and trying to get some kills.
No body but you can determine if this is a game for you, you have to do that yourself; but for me...........THIS GAME ROCKS ! ! ! ! !
DAMNED CHIEF/ ab8aac (back to my original name)
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It's very humorous to see an unknown get doggy-piled for making the same whine that the rest of you are so fond of. :lol He did express it poorly, but I've seen the same argument win all sorts of nods and approval when it's typed on a different keyboard.
Not going to agree or disagree with the OP, but the side-switching here is pathetic.
IN total agreement with your post Anax.
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Shuffler, how many national-level policy decisions have you presided over, advised on, or effected in any meaningful way?
None? And yet you still vote for president? I submit that, by your own yardstick, you are not worthy of the right to vote in national-level elections.
I understand that the OP, by any estimation, is a whiny troll, but one must be careful not to give them oppertunities to enforce the fiction that they're being unjustly persecuted.
I employ 28 folks..... it's my part of the job.
Your post is a really bad comparison... the OP can vote too... he can leave.
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Anax/Moray.
The critical failure of the OP is that it puts the blame on HTC for the players' behavior. HTC doesn't make people gang bang and use DoS (as it were) tactics. HTC doesn't deny people freedom of gameplay but instead encourages better gameplay. e.g. ENY, arena caps. To blame HTC for kill stealing, etc, is ridiculous, and a totally different thing from denouncing same gameplay itself.
In addition, the OP's out of line when it says this:Why add all this crap? [...] Now, you are going to add water that looks like a quilt my grandmother crocheted back in 1925? What are you all, stupid?
It sounds like someone needs a reality check.
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There are fewer players today then there was 4 years ago.
How many play the game now? 4K? Maybe 5K? That is what it has always been
(http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww279/stodd602/epicF.jpg)
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The critical failure of the OP is that it puts the blame on HTC for the players' behavior.
I don't believe that's the best interpretation we can make of his poor quality post, but I do understand your counterargument.
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IN!
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This game rocks!
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You have no numbers. You base everything on your poor SA.
BTW I use a CH Fighter Stick, Pro Pedals, and Pro Throttle..... all work well.
Same here. (still suk though)
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I don't believe that's the best interpretation we can make of his poor quality post, but I do understand your counterargument.
I gave it some time and read each line but to take this too seriously would sure be a crime.
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Works and looks great on my comp. .
IN
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I gave it some time and read each line but to take this too seriously would sure be a crime.
Hehe, yes, we all agree his post was trash, but it's still funny to see someone get ripped on for complaining about poor quality gameplay by people who do nothing but complain about poor quality gameplay. ;)
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Same here. (still suk though)
Hah... so do I.
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Hehe, yes, we all agree his post was trash, but it's still funny to see someone get ripped on for complaining about poor quality gameplay by people who do nothing but complain about poor quality gameplay. ;)
yea :)
we're all hypocrits though aint we? if we didnt do the things or know of doing them we wouldnt comdem them so quickly.
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No shoes?
No shirt??
No Service!
This post reminded me of a guy from WBs who pissed all over HTC because WBs was whey better still...what what that dolts name? same crap attitude. Shet can him and all his pied piper wannabes.
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Ya know, I've read several things that amount to complaints about HI Tech and AcesHighII so forth and so on. I would guess that I run the game on just about the oldest system in the Game. It's a bare bones kit from about 1999. I just recently added a new vid card, GeForce 6200, I know, still older than dirt vid card, but an upgrade for my system! lol. I've also added some Ram, 2gig. As you can see, quite an old system. For the most part however, game runs fine for me with verry few problems.
I've said that to say this. There's nothing wrong with the way the game is made, just those of us that play it!
Thanks, Dale. I for one am a satisfied customer and have been for going on about 5 years now! Keep it going. :salute
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HighTech makes graphic updates because they think it will keep customers. If it looks more cool, it will be more cool. This is nonsense. There is an old expression. "Less is more".
Present a challenge your customers can learn and grow into. A game is not a game if it does not make sense and if there is no "challenge". Challenge is what to "game" means. It has always been this way. This is what needs fixing, not the graphics.
All I got out of it was this paragraph. I find this game very challenging. The steep learning curve makes it a challenge every day.. or am I missing something?
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I employ 28 folks..... it's my part of the job.
Yes, that compares quite well to national-level executive policy decisions that effect millions upon millions of people :rofl
My point is that claiming that somebody's argument is inherently invalid because they are not an industry expert in what is being discussed is a sham argument. By that logic, since you are not an MMO development expert, your input on the topic is likewise invalid, rendering either of your claims worthless, and putting you on equal footing with somebody who is a troll.
I don't think I need to say why you don't want to do that.
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I would have to say to the OP....Find a part of the game you like...then find a squad that par-takes in that said field of play. I myself get frustrated...yes.... at a ganging...however I find a challenge in it and work to better my outcome each time. I will rant and rave but when all is said and done, it is my stupidity/stubborness/addiction to trying to beat the odds that causes this.
I have lately tried my hand at bombing....Quite a knack to it really(which I am a long way from mastering. I presently make new terrain), after which I will be gamey and stick around and try a dogfight in them..or as it turns out with it as I loose my drones quickly(usually just after take off).When I get better at bombing, maybe I'll try to get home with some damage points.
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Not a single one of you have read the initial topic that I posted within its context of thought. Well, maybe there are one or two of you that actually have read and give for substance as a matter of consideration. Go back and read the initial post. Think about what it is I am actually saying. Try to help "all", as a matter of consideration.
I go back a ways with this game, and the people I learned from, go back even further. Some of them go back to beginning of it it all. They are almost all gone now. Out of the 30 or so of them, there may be 3 of them left.
To me, this is an issue that needs to be addressed. Not the graphics, so much. Why do they leave? Huah? Not a single one of them left because they desire more fire, smoke, and flaming airplanes, etc etc. but they all, every single one of them left because of the game itself. This is not to say it is not the best game online, to me it is, but it is to say, the game can still be better. At least in my mind it could be. However, I do consider an old expression as well, I learned it from my dad,... "leave well enough alone". Also however, It does not hurt to toss around Ideas.
My idea is this. We got a Titanic Tuesday, how about a Mundane Monday. Its the dang maps. What sense does it make to have 100 plus bases and there are only 4 bases on the map being used? How about find a way to offer more opportunity for players who want to do the many different things in a "reasonable" way. Having to race 15 green guys to be the first one to grab a vulch taking off from an attacked base is not my idea of fun. It also is about the only thing I can find to do that makes any sense, and it disgusts me to do it as well.
Mundane Monday. I say somebody make a map that is a map like no other. Mix things up a bit, if only just to test and see what happens. It would at least offer a new sense of interest, if nothing else.
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I say somebody make a map that is a map like none other.
Sure, go do it! :aok
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Original Reply
Not a single one of you have read the initial topic that I posted within its context of thought. Well, maybe there are one or two of you that actually have read and give for substance as a matter of consideration. Go back and read the initial post. Think about what it is I am actually saying. Try to help "all", as a matter of consideration.
I go back a ways with this game, and the people I learned from, go back even further. Some of them go back to beginning of it it all. They are almost all gone now. Of of the 30 or so of them, there may be 3 of them left.
To me, this is an issue that needs to be addressed. Not the graphics, so much. Why do they leave? Huah? Not a single one of them left because they desire more fire, smoke, and flaming airplanes, etc etc. but they all, every single one of them left because of the game itself. This is not to say it is not the best game online, to me it is, but it is to say, the game can still be better. At least in my mind it could be. However, to do consider an old expression as well, I learned it from my dad, "leave well enough alone". Also however, It does not hurt to toss around Ideas.
My idea is this. We got a Titanic Tuesday, how about a Mundane Monday. Its the dang maps. What sense does it make to have 100 plus bases and there are only 4 bases on the map being used? How about find a way to offer more opportunity for players who want to do the many different things in a "reasonable" way. Having to race 15 green guys to be the first one to grab a vulch taking off from an attached base is not my idea of fun. It also is about the only thing I can find to do that makes any sense, and it disgusts me to do it as well.
Mundane Monday. I say somebody make a map that is a map like none other. Mix things up a bit, if only just to test and see what happens. It would offer at least a sense of interest, if nothing else.
Now
Every single one of you are missing the point. Go back and read the initial topic. Players are leaving the game. Most of the old school vets are gone. There are fewer players today then there was 4 years ago. I am pretty sure about that.
How many play the game now? 4K? Maybe 5K? That is what it has always been since I have been around.
My point is this. The planes and all are so very cool, but there is not a gaming atmosphere in which to use them.This frustrates me. I may be out and about in my dweeb spit, and find a killer in a p38, and to me, wow, that means game on, fun stuff. Yet, 3 turns into it, 8 morons fly into it and game is not on. There never was a game.
Graphic updates will not keep people from leaving this game. The game needs fixing. Not the graphics.
You're missing the point.
1.) You are naive to think this latest installment of updates is "to blame".
2.) I've been playing longer than you and many "old school vets" have left NOT because of "updates" or "out of date PC's". But because they were "at this deal" since 1996 and got burned out.
3.) There are just as many players, the number is amoebic.
4.) You're the one who "needs the clue and do more reading", not some of us.
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I say somebody make a map that is a map like no other. Mix things up a bit, if only just to test and see what happens. It would at least offer a new sense of interest, if nothing else.
Can't wait to see what you come up with ... after all, your ideas of "mixing things up a bit" may not be what someone else would consider "mixing things up a bit" as evidenced by your disgust of what the current maps have to offer.
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4 countries maybe? hhhmmmmm. Just kidding.
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4 countries maybe? hhhmmmmm. Just kidding.
There has been debate about this for years now. I say four countries would be better. Either that, or more base separation, instead of each of the countries owning a third of the map.
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how about 5 countries. US, GB, SU, GE and JP. with planeset restrictions. and NO eny so USA and GB can stomp all over the over 3 :D
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how about 5 countries. US, GB, SU, GE and JP. with planeset restrictions. and NO eny so USA and GB can stomp all over the over 3 :D
Wow I would be in that arena more than the others just to watch the stomping. :rock
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Clutz: I have no idea if you know my credentials or not. A very brief list.
I Started playing online flight sims about 1990.
I published my first online flight sim in 1995.
I coined the term Massively multilayer online game ie MMOG in May 1995 at E3.
I Created my 2nd Online flight sim AH in 1999 and proceed to re take the market with it.
Now things have not really changed since the days I have first started playing online games, and are very much the same for almost all genera of games.
The is one very very simple fact. People will eventually get board with any game they play. 95% of the people leave quietly and find a new game or hobby to enjoy.
5% of the people are board like yourself and begin to blame the game for there boredom. The reality is they are just not having, the adventure and learning they used to enjoy is gone for them, and there really is not much that can be done to ever make them happy.
Then these 5% wish to state things like it cost much less to keep an existing customer than find a new one, in reality nothing could be farther from the truth. There is another flight sim company would tried to please there old time customers with many game play changes, in the end each change they made chased more and more of the normal cycle game players away. Started limited how much fun a new person had, and destroyed the game using the simple thought that they should listen to the whines of old time players who really are nothing more than burnt out on the game because they have been playing to long.
P.S. Today's patch should be out in an hour or so.
HiTech
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There has been debate about this for years now. I say four countries would be better. Either that, or more base separation, instead of each of the countries owning a third of the map.
Hmm I wrote a flight sim with 4 sides allread. Wonder why I changed to 3, maybe because I had found out it is better?
HiTech
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Not a single one of you have read the initial topic that I posted within its context of thought. Well, maybe there are one or two of you that actually have read and give for substance as a matter of consideration. Go back and read the initial post. Think about what it is I am actually saying. Try to help "all", as a matter of consideration.
I go back a ways with this game, and the people I learned from, go back even further. Some of them go back to beginning of it it all. They are almost all gone now. Out of the 30 or so of them, there may be 3 of them left.
To me, this is an issue that needs to be addressed. Not the graphics, so much. Why do they leave? Huah? Not a single one of them left because they desire more fire, smoke, and flaming airplanes, etc etc. but they all, every single one of them left because of the game itself. This is not to say it is not the best game online, to me it is, but it is to say, the game can still be better. At least in my mind it could be. However, I do consider an old expression as well, I learned it from my dad,... "leave well enough alone". Also however, It does not hurt to toss around Ideas.
My idea is this. We got a Titanic Tuesday, how about a Mundane Monday. Its the dang maps. What sense does it make to have 100 plus bases and there are only 4 bases on the map being used? How about find a way to offer more opportunity for players who want to do the many different things in a "reasonable" way. Having to race 15 green guys to be the first one to grab a vulch taking off from an attacked base is not my idea of fun. It also is about the only thing I can find to do that makes any sense, and it disgusts me to do it as well.
Mundane Monday. I say somebody make a map that is a map like no other. Mix things up a bit, if only just to test and see what happens. It would at least offer a new sense of interest, if nothing else.
You just ask to be flamed hard don't you?
You're wanting HTC to change the way people choose to play the game??? Are you smoking crack now or what???
I'm not gonna play it your way any more than you're gonna play it my way...just off the top of my head...your friends left because they were bored and didn't hold enough of an IQ to figure out how to make it something besides a constant furball for themselves...and 5 different arenas aren't enough diversity for you? You want good fights, stay out of the titanic tuesday arena and hang out in the midwar...or isn't your favorite uber ride available there? You're first post and this one are so totally off base it's pathetic...game play is up to the players and what they are given to use...not your own personal whimsy...if you could get 500 people on one server to play with the same tactics and principles you have...450 would be gone in a month looking for something else to do.
Sounds like you need a new hobby...one that doesn't involve interacting with other people who don't want to play the game your way.
And cut back on some of that sugar you're taking in...it's rotting your brain.
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Think about what it is I am actually saying.
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if what you say is so thick peeps have to actually "think" about it, then you have already lost the war.
I go back a ways with this game, and the people I learned from, go back even further.
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I've been here since before the beginning. I remember when this websight was a simple front page saying "stick around...in a year we might have something to release"...I have never heard of you before this thread.
Why do they leave? Huah?
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wtf? like grains through a hourglass and for just as many reasons they leave, and they come, and they leave again and they come again......and the stay and they go, again.
My idea is this.
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really...you got ideas> well I'll be damned. Hey lookie guys! someone has an "idea". Good for you man, good for you.
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P.S. Today's patch should be out in an hour or so.
HiTech
:O :huh :D :eek:
I love you HiTech...can I have your baby? :D
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I knew you'd put a patch out today.. :D You guys are great at helping with tech problems and fixing issues in the game.
Ive been here since you started this addiction.. you've got my $14.95 for many years to come. :aok
Now.. about perking that spit16... :eek:
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P.S. Today's patch should be out in an hour or so.
HiTech
Now THAT is good news! :salute
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Hmm I wrote a flight sim with 4 sides allread. Wonder why I changed to 3, maybe because I had found out it is better?
HiTech
Were you able to try it out before canning it?
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There has been debate about this for years now. I say four countries would be better. Either that, or more base separation, instead of each of the countries owning a third of the map.
Only benefit to four countries is easier milkrunning.
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It is upto you...you.....you.....you..yo u oh yes and you..over there hiding.. yes I see you and myself to help the changes we want..... Most of the time things are fine but sometimes there are those who will try to bring things down...but you know what....this mmog has been here for a while and I would have to say it has one of the most passionate communities around....what's to change...the guys/gals most have issues with are the ones who don't stick around.
oh yes adapt and overcome
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Hmm I wrote a flight sim with 4 sides allread. Wonder why I changed to 3, maybe because I had found out it is better?
HiTech
I played for years on a 4 colour country air/sim - 2 countrys always were large & fought each other and the other two left overs tended to pick 1 of the others and align with it:
.......frogs/barneys against the 2 good guys eh!! :aok
(origionally started out with AH's 3 - A,B,C land - those dasTARDly A's and Heathen C's were just bish and rooks in disguise I'm sure!!) :noid
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Clutz,
If you want to have more fun and don't want to be ganged, then peruse the squad forums at the bottom of the BBS and find a group that seems to enjoy the same things you do. There's a group for pretty much everything on earth from furballing to base-taking, gv'ing to bomber escort and others that do all of that and then some.
You won't ever be able to control what the other guy does, but you can control what you do, and this game is pretty fun when you're in good company.
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The graphics in AHII are now about as good as anything out there. If you do not realize that, then you do not know enough about the relevant competition to make an intelligent post.
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The word is spelled: "klutz."
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Don't deuce me dude
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Yes, that compares quite well to national-level executive policy decisions that effect millions upon millions of people :rofl
My point is that claiming that somebody's argument is inherently invalid because they are not an industry expert in what is being discussed is a sham argument. By that logic, since you are not an MMO development expert, your input on the topic is likewise invalid, rendering either of your claims worthless, and putting you on equal footing with somebody who is a troll.
I don't think I need to say why you don't want to do that.
Well if one of my parts fail in one of the plants..... say... Bayer, there is a chance that possibly 100,000 or many more may perish. On the other hand if my part does not fail they go on with their lives. Multiply this with all the parts in all the plants.....Sooo yes I'd say it affects quite a few.
Now throw in the armor on many of the humvees in use in the war... hmmm
Now throw in the equipment and part for Stewart & Stevensen... I guess it could affect millions.
But like I said... not even close to the same thing.
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DDMD
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Now things have not really changed since the days I have first started playing online games, and are very much the same for almost all genera of games.
Hey, I emphatically agree with HT this time. :) I get frustrated with the arenas from time to time, but I know the stuff that bugs me has existed since before AH was released.
When you first start out in a game like AH, almost every minute is a peak experience. After a while, you have those peak experiences every couple hours. Then it's every couple sessions, then weeks, etc. Until you back off and take a break.
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Anax/Moray.
The critical failure of the OP is that it puts the blame on HTC for the players' behavior. HTC doesn't make people gang bang and use DoS (as it were) tactics. HTC doesn't deny people freedom of gameplay but instead encourages better gameplay. e.g. ENY, arena caps. To blame HTC for kill stealing, etc, is ridiculous, and a totally different thing from denouncing same gameplay itself.
<snip>
This isn't how I interpreted the OP's post.
Further down, he posted something very telling.
Assertion: vets are leaving
Reason: NOT because of the graphics; because of the gameplay
Assertion: HTC is focusing on fixing the graphics. This isn't what's driving people (vets?) away from the game, therefore this isn't the best place to spend resources.
I invested about 2-3 years in this game. Not enough to be a "vet", but long enough to get what the game was about.
I left about 3 months ago. I did not leave because I couldn't stand the graphics. I left because I couldn't stand the gameplay.
Do I blame HTC for this? Doggone right I do! HTC makes the game. The game drives gameplay. HTC can't stop players from being dweeby. He CAN create a framework that discourages dweeby behavior.
The game, the framework in which we play, drives behavior.
If you're asking me what HTC should do to make the game better, I say, "does it matter what I think?"
The OP makes several valid points. They're unfortunately getting lost in the uproar.
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I am playing on a machine that is about 8 years old. :( The only thing I have done is added some RAM and with every update it runs better. ( I haven't tried 8 yet)
But if I had 10 guys chasing me, I would love to tune in on their vox. It might go something like this.
Pilot 1: Hey that blutic down there, who wants him?
Pilot 2: Not me I killed him last time.
Pilot 3: I'm not blowing my "E" to get him.
Pilot 4: Let the new guy get him.
Pilot 1: Never mind he just crashed into a barn.
I have been playing this game a while, and I still love it. WTG HTC!
<S>
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This isn't how I interpreted the OP's post.
Further down, he posted something very telling.
Assertion: vets are leaving
Reason: NOT because of the graphics; because of the gameplay
Assertion: HTC is focusing on fixing the graphics. This isn't what's driving people (vets?) away from the game, therefore this isn't the best place to spend resources.
I invested about 2-3 years in this game. Not enough to be a "vet", but long enough to get what the game was about.
I left about 3 months ago. I did not leave because I couldn't stand the graphics. I left because I couldn't stand the gameplay.
Do I blame HTC for this? Doggone right I do! HTC makes the game. The game drives gameplay. HTC can't stop players from being dweeby. He CAN create a framework that discourages dweeby behavior.
The game, the framework in which we play, drives behavior.
If you're asking me what HTC should do to make the game better, I say, "does it matter what I think?"
The OP makes several valid points. They're unfortunately getting lost in the uproar.
Geez is it dweeb moron Wednesday? The come out of the woodwork like cockroaches.
You and others like you would have stopped playing regardless of reason...if it wasn't the "gameplay" it would have been because you were tired of getting your butt kicked by someone better...or boredom...or some other nameless reason...you would have pulled a reason out of your rectum and then had the gall to blame it on "the game" or HTC.
If one of you "experts" can come up with a real life tried and true method to dictate how hundreds of people interactively play a game with each other at the exact same time without stepping on someones screwed up ideals about how "the game should be played" go for it...especially a flight sim or first person shooter...I dare ya. I can tell you how it would work here...1 plane type and a whole bunch of 1v1 arenas with no objectives except to shoot down the other plane...and most of those arenas would be empty...oh that sounds like fun...yeah buddy you betcha.
Here's some flying games you might like and they're free...have at it:
Awesome Dweeb Flying Games (http://www.freeonlinegames.com/tag/Dog_Fighting_Games)
If you're that much of an expert in "how the game should be played"...grab the rest of your whiner girlfriends and pool your money together, then create your own massive multiplayer flight sim. You can shag each other in the virtual skies your way for as long as you want then.
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Clutz,
I've been playing since I used to borrow DAMND Slidr's account on Genie 1989 orf so. I think slidr is dead now. I watched the feilds in AW go from numbers and 16 colors to names with 3D colors and stopped playing in 99 to come back late 02 or early 03. Over all these years people have come and gone. People in real life come and go also. To accusse anything of not changing is realy to show your audience how much you resist and dislike change in your own life. Everything changes and we fool ourselves thinking we can control the outcome. Why then are you trying to make this community of customers and HiTech responsible for your unhappiness with the change you perceive?
I've been playing so long that I know the game today will not be the same game tomorrow, or even an hour from now. My condolences for the loss of all your old comerades who helped give you a sense of fun and your style of game play in this game. Being the old hand you have presented yourself as, isn't it now your turn to start giving back and help those who you decry to learn how to fight in the interesting manner you say has gone away with CHANGE?
Play long enough and your squad will start calling you grandpaw like mine does...........do you remember what a joke the early Yak9 was in AW clutz......
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I need to learn how to quote
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Clutz: I have no idea if you know my credentials or not. A very brief list.
I do have an idea about you credentials dear sir, and I mean the term "sir" in a respectful way. I really do. I have always presumed your passion for aircraft is at the very heart of how this game we play came into existence. I respect this. If there is one thing I respect more than anything else about this game, it is this very thought. You are the creator.
I can not merge my airplane. If I do, simple fact is, I will surely die. I have read previously that this game, and this is a paraphrase quote from you, is a "flight sim". Well, it ain't that now. It is a game similar to one of my first digital game experiences, back in 1976 or so, and that is the game of Invaders. Nothing but stuff vertically dropping out of the sky.
I spent another 3 hours online and could not fight my airplane. It is as simple as that. For instance, I found a p51. I know good and well there were 10 others behind him, so I tried to drag him out for a fight. I think I have drug him out far enough, but no, he is a better pilot I am, and it will take some time to fight this guy. Next thing I know, very typical, here come 10 red guys chasing me. I have no choice but to run back home. He chases me a bit, then next thing you know, there are 10 green guys chasing the P51 I wanted to fight. This is not fun.
It's not fun, its a wast of time. Every single fight I tried to find wound up in nothing but this same sort of stupidity.
Where is the integrity of the game/flight sim you started off to build?
Players are dwindling, I speculate. I heard a guy today on vox and he mentions he is broke and he is trying to decide if he wants to keep cable TV, or internet so he can play aces high. Well, if his flights were the same as mine were today, I would suggest cable TV. It's just food for thought. My prospective.
I can not fight my airplane. That is what I want. I do not want to go to the DA. I want to fight in the wonderful virtual atmosphere of the unknown that exists only from an online game. However, I do want a reasonable fight. Not stupidity and hours wasted of wasted time. Once again, just food for thought. It is your game. I love the airplanes and the thrill of a good fight. Nothing else.
How about a Mundane Monday? Maybe a new style of map. Anything, just throw us old dog fighters a bone. Would it not be a good thing to keep those like me around a bit longer? There are others out there like me. I know so. We search the map and look for a reasonable fight and can not find one.
Ya know, to sum up, as far as fighting the aircraft you have made, they are so very complex, I will never get board of them. Never. This is what irritates me. I love the aircraft, but I want an environment in which to use them, for fun, not stupidity.
Mundane Mondays. A new style map! LoL :) You are a good guy, and as I have said, I respect you immensely.
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I still can't believe he plays WoW
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I do have an idea about you credentials dear sir, and I mean the term "sir" in a respectful way. I really do. I have always presumed your passion for aircraft is at the very heart of how this game we play came into existence. I respect this. If there is one thing I respect more than anything else about this game, it is this very thought. You are the creator.
I can not merge my airplane. If I do, simple fact is, I will surely die. I have read previously that this game, and this is a paraphrase quote from you, is a "flight sim". Well, it ain't that now. It is a game similar to one of my first digital game experiences, back in 1976 or so, and that is the game of Invaders. Nothing but stuff vertically dropping out of the sky.
I spent another 3 hours online and could not fight my airplane. It is as simple as that. For instance, I found a p51. I know good and well there were 10 others behind him, so I tried to drag him out for a fight. I think I have drug him out far enough, but no, he is a better pilot I am, and it will take some time to fight this guy. Next thing I know, very typical, here come 10 red guys chasing me. I have no choice but to run back home. He chases me a bit, then next thing you know, there are 10 green guys chasing the P51 I wanted to fight. This is not fun.
It's not fun, its a wast of time. Every single fight I tried to find wound up in nothing but this same sort of stupidity.
Where is the integrity of the game/flight sim you started off to build?
Players are dwindling, I speculate. I heard a guy today on vox and he mentions he is broke and he is trying to decide if he wants to keep cable TV, or internet so he can play aces high. Well, if his flights were the same as mine were today, I would suggest cable TV. It's just food for thought. My prospective.
I can not fight my airplane. That is what I want. I do not want to go to the DA. I want to fight in the wonderful virtual atmosphere of the unknown that exists only from an online game. However, I do want a reasonable fight. Not stupidity and hours wasted of wasted time. Once again, just food for thought. It is your game. I love the airplanes and the thrill of a good fight. Nothing else.
How about a Mundane Monday? Maybe a new style of map. Anything, just throw us old dog fighters a bone. Would it not be a good thing to keep those like me around a bit longer? There are others out there like me. I know so. We search the map and look for a reasonable fight and can not find one.
Ya know, to sum up, as far as fighting the aircraft you have made, they are so very complex, I will never get board of them. Never. This is what irritates me. I love the aircraft, but I want an environment in which to use them, for fun, not stupidity.
Mundane Mondays. A new style map! LoL :) You are a good guy, and as I have said, I respect you immensely.
Strange thing I have been hearing from the customer base that people are leaving in droves for the last 10 years. I.E. Like I said before, people are saying the exact same thing as you for more than 20 years.
Do you have any idea how you try to use the term "Flight Sim" but then ignore the real facts of how a battle in the real world of WWII would be? You want a 1v1, that did not happen very often in the real world, so once again your supposition disproves what you are trying to prove.
It is simple, you are not happening playing the game, then leave. Sorry I am not going to completely change the game format just so YOU alone could be happy.
HiTech
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.... and Dale means that in a very nice way..... :aok
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I can not merge my airplane.
I spent another 3 hours online and could not fight my airplane. This is not fun.
It's not fun, its a wast of time. Every single fight I tried to find wound up in nothing but this same sort of stupidity.
Where is the integrity of the game/flight sim you started off to build?
I can not fight my airplane. That is what I want. I do not want to go to the DA. I want to fight in the wonderful virtual atmosphere of the unknown that exists only from an online game. However, I do want a reasonable fight. Not stupidity and hours wasted of wasted time.
Ya know, to sum up, as far as fighting the aircraft you have made, they are so very complex, I will never get board of them. Never. This is what irritates me. I love the aircraft, but I want an environment in which to use them, for fun, not stupidity.
Clutz your are totally amazing...early war sits nearly empty...mid war has enough players to find a 1v1 fight pretty easily...yet you want to complain to the owner of the game you supposedly enjoy so much, about how over 300 other people are playing against your desires for a fight.
You sir have an amazing amount of testicular fortitude...it's too bad you're desire for adventure and the "thrill of the fight" doesn't allow your common sense to steer you into an arena that may or may not have the exact plane of your choice...are you afraid of being outclassed? What exactly is it that keeps you and others who may feel the same indignity as yourself out of arenas that surely have the player base to cater to your desires? Lack of uber planes perhaps? Maybe a greater skill set in the players who do hang out in the early or mid war arenas...not enough noobs to pick?
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Toonces the graphics hadnt been updated in a long, long time. So the graphics update can't be blamed for vets leaving, unless the OP argues that all vets that left, left on this one update. IMO the biggest single reasons long-term players left AH is CT sapping updates, and the influx of "gamey" players. CT wasn't something that HTC took lightly (in terms of the risks involved), and there's only so much you can do about the gamey players. The latter which the OP IMO does blame on HTC.
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Less than an hour ago in Blue, I finally get up to 10k in my P-47 (after dispatching a higher 47 and a higher 38). I spot a 110 coming into our base at 12-13k ft. I say to my squad mate on vox, "I'm not going to bother with him. He's going to pork and die on the first pass." The 110 enters a vertical dive, destroys the radar and augers in. :P
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Less than an hour ago in Blue, I finally get up to 10k in my P-47 (after dispatching a higher 47 and a higher 38). I spot a 110 coming into our base at 12-13k ft. I say to my squad mate on vox, "I'm not going to bother with him. He's going to pork and die on the first pass." The 110 enters a vertical dive, destroys the radar and augers in. :P
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Little makes madder than pilots who think they are JDAMs.
Picture it. You're a P-51D who has bothered to climb to 12K with ords. You spot a D9 bearing down on you. Now, you could A. Skin your ords and fight, with a reasonable chance of winning, then going to get more kills or B. Dive for it, become a lawndart or give a proxy kill via ack to someone taking off.
The bad part is, most seem to choose option B!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:
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Another dumbfounding pattern is the guy that's got a con on his six, and instead of dealing with it, drags/beelines for another con that was just flying past 5K away.
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If I had a nickel for every guy I saw auger in while porking the radar/ords... :lol But that's how the game is played. Think about it. If you're trying to capture territory, it's actually far more efficient to fly to the target and die. :huh
And just so no one gets any ideas, it was the same way in HT's first sim, too.
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The game play is up to you, not HTC.
You can play this game anyway you want.
You want 1V1, challenge people to that.
You want challenging strategic missions, create them, and run them with your squad.
You can bomb, drive tanks and boats.
You got King of the Hill, FSO, Snapshots, Scenarios.
You want mindless furballing, you can do that too.
This game can be whatever you want it to be, there is that much versatility.
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Toonces the graphics hadnt been updated in a long, long time. So the graphics update can't be blamed for vets leaving, unless the OP argues that all vets that left, left on this one update. IMO the biggest single reasons long-term players left AH is CT sapping updates, and the influx of "gamey" players. CT wasn't something that HTC took lightly (in terms of the risks involved), and there's only so much you can do about the gamey players. The latter which the OP IMO does blame on HTC.
Moot: Precisely. The OP is saying that "vets" aren't leaving because of the graphics. "I" didn't leave because of the graphics. I left because of the gameplay. Vets are leaving because of the gameplay.
HTC is, apparently, working on the graphics in lieu of the gameplay. That's the wrong direction to take, if I understand the OP's point correctly.
Not that the graphics don't look great in the screenshots. They do, and yes, the graphics could have been/are better.
How has this "kept the vets" from leaving?
THE GAME DRIVES THE GAMEPLAY.
Players can only behave/play in a manner that is allowed by the structure of the game.
I'm just one man, so I can only give you my opinion.
Read Anaxagoras's post again. That's the kind of stuff that is just oh so lame and boring. I'm not talking about getting HO'd or vulched or other things that ARE within my control.
I'm talking about a game that doesn't dangle a carrot such that players find more incentive to play in a manner where landing a bombing run is more profitable than bombing and bailing. Where successfully attacking a radar and RTB'ing is more profitable than augering into it.
I'm not telling you anything you haven't heard before and don't already know Moot.
In my opinion only, the single greatest thing missing from Aces High is some sort of reward for living. No, perks are not enough. And maybe this would have the adverse effect of actually discouraging fights, laming things up, whatever. Or maybe not.
I've never played WoW or other games like that, but I presume that you gain "experience" from successfully playing and completing quests or getting treasure or whatever. Heck, even in COD4 you gain "rank" and unlock stuff I think...So you have an incentive to play, live, and successfully complete the task. The more you play, the more you get.
I don't know how, exactly, you translate that to a game like Aces High, and I don't know if it would work. It sounded like HTC was working on something like this for a while and then dropped it...I guess to work on the graphics.
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I think putting a price on ordinance (bombs and rockets) would do wonders for this game, without discouraging air-to-air fights.
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Your buddy Trotter had one of the best threads ever about this sort of stuff a year or so ago. He basically got shouted down by the crowd, sort of like the OP.
Is he still playing? If not, why did he leave?
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He still plays, but I rarely see him on. Then again, I'm not on that much either. The main reason I keep an account is because FSO creates that peak experience we're always looking for, especially because I have some good wingmen in the 334th.
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The game play is up to you, not HTC.
You can play this game anyway you want.
You want 1V1, challenge people to that.
You want challenging strategic missions, create them, and run them with your squad.
You can bomb, drive tanks and boats.
You got King of the Hill, FSO, Snapshots, Scenarios.
You want mindless furballing, you can do that too.
This game can be whatever you want it to be, there is that much versatility.
I vote that this gets made the MOTD in the MAs
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Toonces - CT was (and could still be - who knows) all that.
The graphics needed fixing. It gets it out of the way.. This is how you prioritize (IMO) when you've got many small-time tasks that only require straight forward crunching, and a few long-term tasks that require focused pondering. Get the small tasks out of the way. The players can't be forced to play one way or another. They can only be encouraged. That's the ethics of game-making, I think.
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I think putting a price on ordinance (bombs and rockets) would do wonders for this game, without discouraging air-to-air fights.
PERK ORDS!!! :D
I've never played WoW or other games like that, but I presume that you gain "experience" from successfully playing and completing quests or getting treasure or whatever. Heck, even in COD4 you gain "rank" and unlock stuff I think...So you have an incentive to play, live, and successfully complete the task. The more you play, the more you get.
Toonces...take it from someone who plays CoD2, 4 and 5...the "perks" system in CoD4 and 5 doesn't stop people from "gaming the game"...I play on tactical realism servers...modded and weapons limited for those people who want as much combat simulation as possible without having to die for it in RL...doesn't stop people from grabbing a machine gun and grenades then running as fast as they can into a room full of opponents...take any multiplayer online game and you will find people "gaming the game" their way, not yours, not mine...as a player you have 2 choices, find a way to play the game the way you want or find something else to do.
Going into the company provided game forums and blaming the creators of the game for the way other players are playing their game and telling the company it's their fault is nothing more than childish behavior...adults should have more sense and if they get flamed, they deserve it.
Simple as taking a leak with the wind blowing.
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THE GAME DRIVES THE GAMEPLAY.
I don't agree with this at all. The players drive the game play. How I approach the game is up to me. If I go into it thinking about how my actions impact on everyone and what can I do to make it fun for more then just myself, the game is fine.
The problem is you have a large segment of the AH crowd that goes at the game thinking only about how it impacts them and screw the rest of the crowd. Basically when I go into an arena I have 200-300 if not more people I'm responsible to for how I approach playing. Do I face shoot or look for an ACM fight. Do I vulch a base or let guys up to fight. Do I flatten the hangers where a good fight is going because I can or do I find another target. Do I take all the bases at Tank Town just because I can or do I leave it alone so the tankers can fight their fight.
It goes on and on. It's not the game that makes it work, it's the players.
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the single greatest thing missing from Aces High is some sort of reward for living.
Yet another know it all who does not even take the time to read my postings on this very topic with in the last week.
What you ask for would make AH a ghost town.
Ever single thing you stated in you post already is in the game, there is a reward for living, it is better to RTB than die. You choose to ignore all those facts and state your complete BS.
HiTech
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Most of the old school vets are gone.
More are around than you may think....... Most just don't take the time read the same old B.S. on the bulletin boards.
As far as gameplay, AH has many of the things we all hoped for back in the first days of AW......
A war to win... More than one map.... tons of planes to fly.... A boat load of Tanks to fight.... Ships that MOVE!
Aceshigh has somethings that still can be done.... But HTC has taken "The Flight Sim" a long mays from that first time I logged on the Airwarrior in 1994. And i haven't gone a day from that frist time that I have not been a member of one of the big three... AW, WB or AH.
(more years and $$$$ than I like to think about sometimes.....and I still suck at this stuff.)
Cavalry
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Strange thing I have been hearing from the customer base that people are leaving in droves for the last 10 years. I.E. Like I said before, people are saying the exact same thing as you for more than 20 years.
Do you have any idea how you try to use the term "Flight Sim" but then ignore the real facts of how a battle in the real world of WWII would be? You want a 1v1, that did not happen very often in the real world, so once again your supposition disproves what you are trying to prove.
It is simple, you are not happening playing the game, then leave. Sorry I am not going to completely change the game format just so YOU alone could be happy.
HiTech
Yeah, I know all of that. If people have been telling you this for the last 20 years, and they are your customers, maybe you should listen to them. Some companies actually hire out to do market research. Just a thought, mind you.
Why are you angry at me? I love the airplanes and you are the one that made them. I got no real idea about any of this or what goes on at HighTech. All I know is I love the airplanes and most of my friends are all gone now. This is all I really know. I don't even make new friends now, because it becomes painful for me when they leave.
As far as "real battle" goes, I believe this is your weakness in thought. This is a "game" you have here, not a real war. Chess is a game, not a real war. I have been playing chess for decades. It does not frustrate me, it intrigues me still to this day. Just a thought, mind you.
I did not ask you to change the game for me "alone". I only have ever said graphic updates are not the most outstanding fundamental issues that rests on your shoulders, but that the very construction of the "game" itself is. Its always been this way for you, I guess. I imagine, pretty much. I could be wrong. I remember when you did away with fighter town. Horrifying. I remember your interaction with game players back then, and the things you said. That had nothing to do with graphics. It had everything to do with game play. Take that thought or leave it. Its your game. I am tired.
..
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What you ask for would make AH a ghost town.
Ever single thing you stated in you post already is in the game, there is a reward for living, it is better to RTB...
Not always. If you want to pork and repork as quickly as possible, it is better to die. Time without ordinance is time wasted. That's why you see so many heavies bomb and bail.
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I am not agree at you , but you deserve to be shown that you are completely clueeless of facts.
simple thing like this.
Yeah, I know all of that. If people have been telling you this for the last 20 years, and they are your customers, maybe you should listen to them. Some companies actually hire out to do market research. Just a thought, mind you.
Is so bloody arogent, you do not even think of asking have we ever done this. You are clueless of our cash flows. The cost of doing that type of hieing. And you again ignore the fact that we are #1 in our market. Do you really think you create stuff like this with out having a supurb understanding of your customers and market? You believe you know so much of how to create the perfect game, get off your bloody bellybutton and create something in your life instead of throwing darts at someone who really does create new things every day.
You show your self over and over to be a complete fool. Evey player who has been on this bbs and been with us for a year or more KNOWS we listen to customers. But it is always people with super egos like yours who wish to claim that we do not listen because we do not agree with you or them. When customers make suggestions that are good ones, they get implemented.
Listen to yourself, you are talking to the CEO of a computer gaming company who started 1 company and made a big success of it, and then did it again a 2nd time. You are throwing stupid comments out like above with no facts and make assumptions just to throw more darts.
As to why I am jumping on your comments, it was not I who started the dart throwing, claiming HTC is doing a crapy job, and it is all our fault that YOU are not happy with my game and then telling me that I should change things just to make YOU and only YOU be happy. What market annalists have you ever done to back up your claim. How many customers have you listened to over the last 20 years.
How many support phone calls have you taken on weekends to help YOUR customers. How many times have you worked week ends to fix software problems just to make YOUR customers happy. How many times have you maxed your credit cards just to pay your employees salaries.
How many times have you sleped on a cot in 90 deg temps baby sitting computers do to a town with out power. When you start to have even a little knowledge about the interactions and forces in a game maby we could begin to speak on the same plane, but you are so obviously uninformed about game design and business discussions that we can not even begin to speak the same language.
Clutz you really do not comprehend that this is my life , my passion and my livelihood. Are you so clueless as to not understand that any thing I can think of doing to make the most people happy and playing I do? Why would I not do so. It puts money in my pocket. It makes me look good. It makes many people happy with me. But the facts are there will always be people with your personality who are not happy with themselves for what ever reason, and always wish to blame that lack happiness on some one else, rather than looking in the mirror, getting off there duff and doing something to make themselves happy.
No matter how I change the game, you would still be the same unhappy dart thowing guy you are now. It is only you who can change yourself, me changing the game will never make you happy.
HiTech
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P.S.
Patch 8 fixed ALL of my problems, even with everything maxed out. including AA I still get framerates in the 50's. The new 8092 highres shadows are awsome and the 4 mile veiwing range is nice too.
(http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad24/tony7734/ahss3.jpg)
Is an example of a suggestion made by a customer in the last week that already was implemented.
HiTech
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Not always. If you want to pork and repork as quickly as possible, it is better to die. Time without ordinance is time wasted. That's why you see so many heavies bomb and bail.
incase you missed it in one of the latest patch update noes of changes:
people can not bomb andbail and then reup like they once could......( now am not sure if when they bomb and bail, if the bombs just vaporize,but if they immediately reup they get no score !!! )
also, I tryed to read each and every post thoroughly, may have skipped a few ..but Clutz & toonces complaints about gameplay, fall soley on the Aces Hgih Community.........yes we have in the very beginning ( back in AH Beta days ), then throughout AH1, and to the current time have the power within each of us to impose "Good Game Play Etiquette"..........
So the problem, that most of these posts are about, is brought upon each one's on self....for not spreading the knowledge of good gameplay etiquette..yet just come to these boards that roughly what is it 5 to say 15% of all AH online players even read/follow/participate on and post our own displeasures of how the current gameplay is.......
to me that is it in a NutShell.....
Teach the newcomer the "Good Etiquette" call all game players out when they are doing the bad stuff....... if you do this and only do it 1/2 assed..then you might as well not try and help mold the newer players at all......
in order for it to work , one must stick to his her own preserverence a full 100% effort(<---spelling ).....and never give up on spreading Proper Game Play Etiquette..... help your fellow player, in return will help you enjoy your gameplay more......
It Really Is that Simple.......
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incase you missed it in one of the latest patch update noes of changes:
people can not bomb andbail and then reup like they once could......( now am not sure if when they bomb and bail, if the bombs just vaporize,but if they immediately reup they get no score !!! )
They still can, because almost no bomb'n'bailer bailed and reupped before his bombs hit the ground. They are always watching their hits first.
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They still can, because almost no bomb'n'bailer bailed and reupped before his bombs hit the ground. They are always watching their hits first.
thanks Drama"Drag"Queen (jokin Lusche....hehe ) was unaware of that specifically.............time for a wishlist post from me....
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thanks Drama"Drag"Queen (jokin Lusche....hehe )
There is more truth to it as you ever wanted to know... :noid
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Yeah, I know all of that. If people have been telling you this for the last 20 years, and they are your customers, maybe you should listen to them. Some companies actually hire out to do market research. Just a thought, mind you.
Why are you angry at me? I love the airplanes and you are the one that made them. I got no real idea about any of this or what goes on at HighTech. All I know is I love the airplanes and most of my friends are all gone now. This is all I really know. I don't even make new friends now, because it becomes painful for me when they leave.
As far as "real battle" goes, I believe this is your weakness in thought. This is a "game" you have here, not a real war. Chess is a game, not a real war. I have been playing chess for decades. It does not frustrate me, it intrigues me still to this day. Just a thought, mind you.
I did not ask you to change the game for me "alone". I only have ever said graphic updates are not the most outstanding fundamental issues that rests on your shoulders, but that the very construction of the "game" itself is. Its always been this way for you, I guess. I imagine, pretty much. I could be wrong. I remember when you did away with fighter town. Horrifying. I remember your interaction with game players back then, and the things you said. That had nothing to do with graphics. It had everything to do with game play. Take that thought or leave it. Its your game. I am tired...
Tell us you are not this delusional? You foist off "your opinion" as "something HTC has to do". Then when Dale counters with reason, you fuel the fire with blatant arrogance? You have some audacity. Like Dale himself said: "If you don't like it, or it isn't up your standards? Bye."
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*Snip*
+1
Clutz, over the years there have been many of us who have had the same complaints as you. You are right that sometimes it's so bad that you can't even merge.
Even so, it's hardly HiTech's fault. You can't coad basic decency... He could implement just about whatever function dreamed of and you would still find yourself ganged by one con after the other, after the other. That's not something HiTech can forcefully fix, even if he wanted to (and really, from a business perspective, I'm not sure he would even if he could--if 10 guys are picking your 1, that's 10 subscriptions to 1... Think about it.)
If you're sick and tired of it, there are a few things you can do:
1. Quit (and probably come back in a few weeks/months/years like many of us, including myself, have)
2. Blame yourself and your own bad SA and work to improve it (and probably not have as many fights in the process IMO)
3. Go into that DA you don't want to go into, work on getting better, and once you learn a few things, pass them on.
#3 is my personal choice, and I've seen it positively impact my own gameplay. Both with running into people I've helped who now put up a better fight, and with getting some "charitable concessions" from other players.
For example, tonight Bear76 picked me twice while I was in a good fight :furious ;) in his Corsair. On my third flight I was again in a good fight, I again saw a Corsair show up, and you know what? The Corsair saw my icon, banked its wings and flew away. :salute Bear76 (and if this wasn't you, just roll with it :D ). There are many people who will do this for you.
Get a reputation for being someone willing to be part of the solution, and for being someone who tries to be fair, and you will from time to time get to see that solution, and receive that fairness. It won't save every sortie of yours from being a headache, but it will save some.
Sometimes you just need to come on here and vent, sure, but recognize it's not solving anything (and that perhaps you should go after us dweebs and not the CEO lol)
:salute
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I am not agree at you , but you deserve to be shown that you are completely clueeless of facts.
simple thing like this.
Is so bloody arogent, you do not even think of asking have we ever done this. You are clueless of our cash flows. The cost of doing that type of hieing. And you again ignore the fact that we are #1 in our market. Do you really think you create stuff like this with out having a supurb understanding of your customers and market? You believe you know so much of how to create the perfect game, get off your bloody bellybutton and create something in your life instead of throwing darts at someone who really does create new things every day.
You show your self over and over to be a complete fool. Evey player who has been on this bbs and been with us for a year or more KNOWS we listen to customers. But it is always people with super egos like yours who wish to claim that we do not listen because we do not agree with you or them. When customers make suggestions that are good ones, they get implemented.
Listen to yourself, you are talking to the CEO of a computer gaming company who started 1 company and made a big success of it, and then did it again a 2nd time. You are throwing stupid comments out like above with no facts and make assumptions just to throw more darts.
As to why I am jumping on your comments, it was not I who started the dart throwing, claiming HTC is doing a crapy job, and it is all our fault that YOU are not happy with my game and then telling me that I should change things just to make YOU and only YOU be happy. What market annalists have you ever done to back up your claim. How many customers have you listened to over the last 20 years.
How many support phone calls have you taken on weekends to help YOUR customers. How many times have you worked week ends to fix software problems just to make YOUR customers happy. How many times have you maxed your credit cards just to pay your employees salaries.
How many times have you sleped on a cot in 90 deg temps baby sitting computers do to a town with out power. When you start to have even a little knowledge about the interactions and forces in a game maby we could begin to speak on the same plane, but you are so obviously uninformed about game design and business discussions that we can not even begin to speak the same language.
Clutz you really do not comprehend that this is my life , my passion and my livelihood. Are you so clueless as to not understand that any thing I can think of doing to make the most people happy and playing I do? Why would I not do so. It puts money in my pocket. It makes me look good. It makes many people happy with me. But the facts are there will always be people with your personality who are not happy with themselves for what ever reason, and always wish to blame that lack happiness on some one else, rather than looking in the mirror, getting off there duff and doing something to make themselves happy.
No matter how I change the game, you would still be the same unhappy dart thowing guy you are now. It is only you who can change yourself, me changing the game will never make you happy.
HiTech
I know, I know, and off to work we go. I own my one business, for 8 years now. I am am happy in a way, but the horror of it all constantly overwhelms me. I know. I know. Actually, it is you I have had in mind from the beginning of my topic post, believe it or not. You and your employees. I think about you all. I care. I have been reading these bulletin boards for years. I got an idea of you all, in general. I do care.
Dude, its your airplanes, and you got yourself an ace in the hole with them as far as I am concerned. No pun intended. All I want to do, as I quoted somebody in my very begging topic thread, is: "just jump online and have a few fun fights". Is that asking to much? Maybe it is, but its what "I" want, and I know there are others out there like me. We know the thrill these airplanes have when used in a correct sort of way and it is the very beauty of your design that makes them this way. Maybe this idea of fun fights is not a conceivable thing as far as the game goes, but it is my desire none the less. Maybe it is conceivable?
Besides the other things I have said previously, this is all of what I know to say.
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Fun fights can be had any night of the week. One of the reasons this 'vet' keeps playing. It doesn't mean there aren't nights that are discouraging, but again that's a player based problem, not the game.
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HighTech makes graphic updates because they think it will keep customers. If it looks more cool, it will be more cool. This is nonsense. There is an old expression. "Less is more".
Why add all this crap? You people can not even process over the internet the information from my fighter stick. Now, you are going to add water that looks like a quilt my grandmother crocheted back in 1925? What are you all, stupid?
If you want customers, and if you want people to stop leaving the "game", make it a game.
I read on the bulletin boards years ago, some guy said, "man , I get home form work, and all I want to jump online and have some fun fights".
There is no "fun", at least not for me. Only stupidity. What fun is it for 10 green guys to chase one red guy, or 10 red guys to chase one green guy?
This is why people leave the game. I spent 3 hrs tonight and not a single fight that made any sense what so ever. There was only, as usual, nothing but stupidity.
If you want customers, HighTech, make it a game. Present a challenge your customers can learn and grow into. A game is not a game if it does not make sense and if there is no "challenge". Challenge is what to "game" means. It has always been this way. This is what needs fixing, not the graphics.
What would be one suggestion that you would like to share with HTC on how to do that exactly? come on bring it to the table lets see what you got.
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Guys,
All clutz wanted was Hitech's undivided attention along with a public audience to force him to listen by virtue of us being witnesses. After 9 pages and how many PERSONAL posts from HiTech it all comes down to this from clutz.
Quoted from Clutz:
All I want to do, as I quoted somebody in my very begging topic thread, is: "just jump online and have a few fun fights". Is that asking to much? Maybe it is, but its what "I" want,
Clutz didn't want to hear anything from us. He just wanted to use us to get from HiTech as he stated what he wants.
Clutz are a a relative of Voss...........
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Guys,
All clutz wanted was Hitech's undivided attention along with a public audience to force him to listen by virtue of us being witnesses. After 9 pages and how many PERSONAL posts from HiTech it all comes down to this from clutz.
Quoted from Clutz:
All I want to do, as I quoted somebody in my very begging topic thread, is: "just jump online and have a few fun fights". Is that asking to much? Maybe it is, but its what "I" want,
Clutz didn't want to hear anything from us. He just wanted to use us to get from HiTech as he stated what he wants.
Clutz are a a relative of Voss...........
I was shocked when i logged on, and found this thread still open.
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I don't like how some people drive cars!! I'm going to complain to the manufacturers.
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I don't like how some people drive cars!! I'm going to complain to the manufacturers.
Perfect!!!!!
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I don't like how some people drive cars!! I'm going to complain to the manufacturers.
Sure! Why not? There are people who don't like how hand guns are used... They've been going after the manufacturers for years. With a disturbing amount of success too! :confused:
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I don't like how some people drive cars!! I'm going to complain to the manufacturers.
No.
Manufacturers make the cars (planes, vehicles, objects).
Then rules are created how the cars can be used- traffic lights, speed limits, road signs, police (the game rules, strategy, penalties, rewards).
If you don't like the way the cars are driven, you don't attack the complain to the manufacturer about the cars, you complain about the rules that govern how they are allowed to be driven.
In this case, AH2, the same person/company creates both.
The OP is saying that HTC is painting better cars, repaving the roads, whatever; not addressing the broken traffic lights, roads with the wrong speed limits, etc.
It's a lot easier to dismiss the points as whining than to actually read, comprehend, and then address the (perceived) shortcomings in gameplay.
At Hitech: I'm not going to requote that whole post you had, the one about babysitting the computers, but that was really heartfelt and I appreciated you taking the time to post it.
I guess I'm done; I can't make my points any more clearly.
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Once again, toonces shows his analytical skill with the written word, and exposes how thoughtless the parroting of the bbs peanut gallery really can be.
I'm guessing you majored in the humanities? ;)
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See rule #4.
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Don't marry someone you don't like thinking they will change.
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No.
Manufacturers make the cars (planes, vehicles, objects).
Then rules are created how the cars can be used- traffic lights, speed limits, road signs, police (the game rules, strategy, penalties, rewards).
If you don't like the way the cars are driven, you don't attack the complain to the manufacturer about the cars, you complain about the rules that govern how they are allowed to be driven.
In this case, AH2, the same person/company creates both.
The OP is saying that HTC is painting better cars, repaving the roads, whatever; not addressing the broken traffic lights, roads with the wrong speed limits, etc.
It's a lot easier to dismiss the points as whining than to actually read, comprehend, and then address the (perceived) shortcomings in gameplay.
At Hitech: I'm not going to requote that whole post you had, the one about babysitting the computers, but that was really heartfelt and I appreciated you taking the time to post it.
I guess I'm done; I can't make my points any more clearly.
Very nice post. :)
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Once again, toonces shows his analytical skill with the written word, and exposes how thoughtless the parroting of the bbs peanut gallery really can be.
I'm guessing you majored in the humanities? ;)
It was very clever, quite true metaphoricaly and funny. It is still only a matter of opinion if the traffic lights are faulty or not. Alot of people think they work fine :confused:
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See rule #4
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It was very clever, quite true metaphoricaly and funny. It is still only a matter of opinion if the traffic lights are faulty or not. Alot of people think they work fine :confused:
Of course battfink. But what toonces did is show that comparing the complaint about AH gameplay to complaining about an auto manufacturer is a false analogy, despite the applause the originator of that idea received. Moreover, he is dead right that AH is in the position of being both the manufacturer and the giver of traffic laws.
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I can see that, sure. Yet the nature of humans dictates that any new rules Hitech makes will be complained about equally or more so than this original complaint.
More importantly, if some new rules to save gameplay were put in place, the original poster would almost certainly end up complaining about the very rules he demanded.
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I can see that, sure. Yet the nature of humans dictates that any new rules Hitech makes will be complained about equally or more so than this original complaint.
More importantly, if some new rules to save gameplay were put in place, the original poster would almost certainly end up complaining about the very rules he demanded.
Absolutely without a fragment of a doubt. Otherwise, if he was that discontented here he would have peacefully dropped his account and looked for another game.
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Moved....wrong thread
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No.
Manufacturers make the cars (planes, vehicles, objects).
Then rules are created how the cars can be used- traffic lights, speed limits, road signs, police (the game rules, strategy, penalties, rewards).
If you don't like the way the cars are driven, you don't attack the complain to the manufacturer about the cars, you complain about the rules that govern how they are allowed to be driven.
In this case, AH2, the same person/company creates both.
So like I said, you're asking that players be forced to play a certain way.. ? Even assuming that this wasn't wrong, how is it feasible? It's fine to have an immaculate principle, but it needs to have a concrete way to be implemented. How do you force players to play in that certain way (which hasn't been defined yet), while allowing them to have fun?
The OP is saying that HTC is painting better cars, repaving the roads, whatever; not addressing the broken traffic lights, roads with the wrong speed limits, etc.
That's why HTC risked almost everything to attempt to make that missing piece of the AH puzzle (CT)?
Of course battfink. But what toonces did is show that comparing the complaint about AH gameplay to complaining about an auto manufacturer is a false analogy, despite the applause the originator of that idea received. Moreover, he is dead right that AH is in the position of being both the manufacturer and the giver of traffic laws.
Inaccurate because incomplete context.
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I can see that, sure. Yet the nature of humans dictates that any new rules Hitech makes will be complained about equally or more so than this original complaint.
More importantly, if some new rules to save gameplay were put in place, the original poster would almost certainly end up complaining about the very rules he demanded.
There's no way to know, of course, but it would be human nature.
I don't think the traffic lights are broken, but I do think they could use some adjustment.
Inaccurate because incomplete context.
Care to expand on that? Your laconic brevity escapes me.
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I see we have many pseudo-psychologists :lol
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Anax It's not the brevity that escapes, it's its meaning [/hairsplit]
Forget the analogy and forget who's arguing which points... What rules is HTC supposed to impose on players that would guarantee a net improvement?
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Anax It's not the brevity that escapes, it's its meaning [/hairsplit]
Forget the analogy and forget who's arguing which points... What rules is HTC supposed to impose on players that would guarantee a net improvement?
Or to put it differently. The analogy is fine, but not 1 person that I know of in this entire thread has said any one thing is broken. No one said any rule should be changed. No one said anything coherent in any way except "Im not happy, and it is HTC fault, FIX IT!"
HiTech
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I was shocked when i logged on, and found this thread still open.
I'm not. Dale is implementing a perfect point. The 1st post thread should have been in an EMAIL or PM to HTC. Instead, he was abrasive in his post, to the point of getting Dale himself in the discussions and continuing the arrogance. Besides that, he never actually come out and says "this is what is wrong, fix this." He just says: "Fix this HTC!"
While Saantana has some good points, they go out of the window because the OP should have been worded better in a Forum Post.
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Anax It's not the brevity that escapes, it's its meaning [/hairsplit]
Forget the analogy and forget who's arguing which points... What rules is HTC supposed to impose on players that would guarantee a net improvement?
Oh, I'm not sure if there are any, but I think the perking ords idea might be worth trying.
I just loved seeing someone spout off a false analogy and get cheered on for it. Typical bbs echo-chamber stuff.
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Or to put it differently. The analogy is fine, but not 1 person that I know of in this entire thread has said any one thing is broken. No one said any rule should be changed. No one said anything coherent in any way except "Im not happy, and it is HTC fault, FIX IT!"
HiTech
Heres a fix to hording. Suddenly, you hit a no fly zone and get insta-death if there are more than x amount of planes in one square, say 1 mile by 1 mile.
:D
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Heres a fix to hording. Suddenly, you hit a no fly zone and get insta-death if there are more than x amount of planes in one square, say 1 mile by 1 mile.
:D
So no one can fly there if say 10 planes are there. Even if your not in any way connected to the group flying.... hmm fail.
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How about that pitch limiter for dropping bombs from the Lancaster and other heavies? Or how about not being able to drop bombs from F3 view? I can think of a number of tweaks to the rules that are both coherent and persuasive. ;)
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Anax you've got the OP with an undefendably rude rant that offers only vague unrealistic suggestions.. Then a couple of people stick up for the OP, saying that his rant is the same thing as what everyone usually rants about but merely more rude, and/or a valid point since "HTC is responsible for gameplay". As far as I see, neither points are correct.
The first is wrong because the usual rants are players correctly (IMO) pointing at other players for playing a certain way (not gonna argue that one, but that's what it is - players are the major drivers of gameplay, not HTC), and so is the second because HTC isn't responsible for what players do. You can't blame HTC for misusing or abusing the sandbox they've built (not when the mis/abuses aren't even defined, and could be minor - no way to quantify since not defined), and you can't realistically force players into narrow channels of gameplay and expect them to have fun with such restrictions (or no one has successfully suggested a way to do it yet).
And the F6 restriction to "realistic" angles, or bombs flying thru the compartment roof if salvo'd while pushing neg-Gs, etc, aren't what the OP was on about. But since he was real vague, I guess he could no say that's what he meant. Either way, the graphics had to be updated. Ordnance disappearing with the next sortie's start and a number of other things I can't recall right now were, in fact, added to the game. So it'd stand to reason that there's a good reason to not implement others as simple as these, like the F6 drop restriction, etc.
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So no one can fly there if say 10 planes are there. Even if your not in any way connected to the group flying.... hmm fail.
Well, I was kidding you know. Intended fail in other words ;) Kurwa!
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Anax you've got the OP with an undefendably rude rant that offers only vague unrealistic suggestions.. Then a couple of people stick up for the OP, saying that his rant is the same thing as what everyone usually rants about but merely more rude, and/or a valid point since "HTC is responsible for gameplay".
No one stuck up for him or his rudeness, or at the least, I didn't stick up for him. I even tried to prevent misunderstanding by calling his post "garbage." What was pointed out is that the people bashing the OP were the same ones who often complain about gameplay. Ridiculing them is entirely different from sticking up for the OP.
As far as I see, neither points are correct.
The first is wrong because the usual rants are players correctly (IMO) pointing at other players for playing a certain way (not gonna argue that one, but that's what it is - players are the major drivers of gameplay, not HTC), and so is the second because HTC isn't responsible for what players do. You can't blame HTC for misusing or abusing the sandbox they've built (not when the mis/abuses aren't even defined, and could be minor - no way to quantify since not defined), and you can't realistically force players into narrow channels of gameplay and expect them to have fun with such restrictions (or no one has successfully suggested a way to do it yet).
I agree with you that the players themselves are partly responsible for the state of gameplay. I think there are a few small things HTC could change that might nudge things in a better direction without forcing players into narrow channels.
And the F6 restriction to "realistic" angles, or bombs flying thru the compartment roof if salvo'd while pushing neg-Gs, etc, aren't what the OP was on about. But since he was real vague, I guess he could no say that's what he meant. Either way, the graphics had to be updated. Ordnance disappearing with the next sortie's start and a number of other things I can't recall right now were, in fact, added to the game. So it'd stand to reason that there's a good reason to not implement others as simple as these, like the F6 drop restriction, etc.
I agree with what you say except for the last sentence. There are many, many possible explanations for why HTC has gotten around to some changes but not others. We are not forced into the conclusion that, e.g. HT doesn't like the idea of a pitch restriction on Lancasters releasing bombs.
Edit: Unless, of course, he wants to step up right now and express his opposition to it. :D
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1- So you're saying that being part of any discussion/dissent over gameplay makes it hypocritical to point out how a rude and baseless rant on gameplay is rude and baseless?
2- Let's hear em... The sooner they're suggested, the sooner they can be implemented if they're feasible and better than what we have.
3- Maybe he doesn't. TBH I think it's probably a bad idea because nothing stopped a Lanc pilot IRL from doing that (restrict that because it wasnt kosher from operational POV, and you also have to do something about e.g. dives like the one that brought home a WWII spitfire with some ridiculous bending all over the airframe). The problem is suicide bombers. Neg-G releases should cause a mess OTOH, IMO.
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Or to put it differently. The analogy is fine, but not 1 person that I know of in this entire thread has said any one thing is broken. No one said any rule should be changed. No one said anything coherent in any way except "Im not happy, and it is HTC fault, FIX IT!"
HiTech
Well we definatly need the Soviet TU-2s. Please fix it.
Sorry, couldnt resist. :uhoh
(http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr149/Rich46yo/TU-2-3.jpg)
(http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr149/Rich46yo/tu-2-1.jpg)
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Well, I was kidding you know. Intended fail in other words ;) Kurwa!
:lol
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1- So you're saying that being part of any discussion/dissent over gameplay makes it hypocritical to point out how a rude and baseless rant on gameplay is rude and baseless?
The funny thing about accusations of hypocrisy is that the hypocrite might actually be right. For example, I litter and I say "it's against the law to litter." Just because I'm a hypocrite doesn't make what I say untrue, but it does make me kind of a jerk. Discussing poor gameplay is one thing, frequently whining about it on the bbs is another, which is what many of our members like to do. But then to jump all over another whine that all too closely resembles their own, well, that makes them hypocrites. ;)
2- Let's hear em... The sooner they're suggested, the sooner they can be implemented if they're feasible and better than what we have.
I've brought them up many times, but just to write out the laundry list again:
- Pitch limit on dropping bombs. As things are now, you can drop them while inverted. How many times have we watched a spinning, wingless lancstuka still manage to unload bombs on a CV?
- Disable all weapons in F3 view.
- A small perk on 500 and 1000lb bombs.
- Disable enter-enter-enter for aircraft that haven't sustained damage.
That's a start. :)
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:noid
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Moot,
I've been a reader of the boards for a few years now.
Prior to the beta or update or whatever, how many posts/threads/whines were about perceived gameplay issues?
Now same question, but how many were about graphics or graphics quality?
That was the essence of what I perceive as the meat of the OP's point, no matter how badly he made it.
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I like the game just fine myself. And one of the appealing things is the lack of restrictions.
Though as to the LancStuka issue I would favor upping the hardness on CVs, so a single formation couldn't kill one. There's probably implications to that I haven't considered though.
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Anax - Agree to disagree. The OP blaming HTC for gameplay from hell and dandruff etc, and people giving legitimate rants on real trends from other players... One is bogus, the other isn't. Equating the two as ridiculously off-base is incorrect.
Toonces the only things I'll argue is that he's basing this whole rant on a faulty premise, and that the usual rants aren't equivalent to the OP.
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TBH I think it's probably a bad idea because nothing stopped a Lanc pilot IRL from doing that
Wasn't there? I'm just speculating, but would the release mechanism have worked properly at such a steep angle? Could a real Lanc survive the pullout if it still had 10k lbs. of bomb onboard? Is the latter currently modeled?
Anyway the game has a lot of features that increase playability at a small cost to realism, I don't see how this one would be a bad one. And no bombing in F3 view mode would be better from both POVs. As for suicide bombers, how about this: if you bail out of an undamaged plane or vehicle within con range of any enemy (or enemy tower) you lose 10 perk points, they get the proxy, and any of your bombs/torps/troops that are still going disappear immediately rather than waiting for you to re-up. Just a thought, anyway.
I am glad about the feet-dry spawn and ords disappearing after re-upping fixes, I think it shows HTC are concerned with fixing the traffic signals. One more I think would be nice is that puffy ack would not operate within 6k of an enemy base - I think it's a little silly parking a CV 3k offshore and having puffy ack kill anything that climbs out immediately after takeoff. Another one: kills against any plane with wheels touching the ground don't count as a kill for the killer or a death for the victim (the sortie is still ended, of course). That would cut down on runway-camping flaks too, which I think would be a good thing. Likewise for vehicles still in the VH. If you want to camp the hangar for tactical reasons, fine, but how does that reflect superior skill, and why encourage it?
(None of this is to say anything either way about the OP; I've got no dog in that fight.)
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I like the game just fine myself. And one of the appealing things is the lack of restrictions.
Though as to the LancStuka issue I would favor upping the hardness on CVs, so a single formation couldn't kill one. There's probably implications to that I haven't considered though.
I sink CV's with a formation of 88's while divebombing. Because they were an excellent Dive Bomber in WWII. That and I never have good luck with Torps.
But upping the hardness, screws someone over like myself who doesn't "game the game". I'd rather see the ordnance being UNABLE TO DROP in a dive on 17's, 24', Lanc's and 67's. Penalize the people exploiting the BS, not the majority of us who try to absorb some of the Historical Accuracies from time to time.
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A big 4 engined heavy bomber has no business being able to be flown like a Stuka. 17s, 24s, Lancs, should only be able to drop bombs when in bombdoor view. Getting rid of F-3 is just a selfish crybaby complaint by a few players who want to be able to slaughter bombers at will.
But every time I see 3 Lancs working a field of GVs with their 14 1,000 lb dive bombs I really want to barf.
I'd like to see CVs hardened up a bit more as well.
As for GVs I'd like to see a better way for them to tower out after they spawn. I dont GV, and the ones who do dont seem to care, but I think it would be fairer to them if the distance needed away from an enemy was shortened. I also think it would energize the GV war if the distance before a base alerts, from non-firing GVs, was shortened too.
I think its a great game that is only getting better.
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Good grief Clutz !! Complain there's no new planes , no new terrrain , no new maps , no new graphics, no new this , no new that. Then the second HTC steps up and tries to make the game more enjoyable for us you pick that apart too. With all new additions and patches there's going to be a few glitches. Shoot man I could care less if my screen stutters a bit . I'm just glad to see some new stuff man and I thank them for at least trying. It feels good to see some of our money being returned to the game rather than a 401K or an off shore account :lol Give the damnn people a break man and all will come in due time or make a few small upgrades to your PC maybe. This makes 7 years for me and the squad and one thing you better learn is when to holdem and when to foldem bro. trust me ... have a coke and a smile and STF well you know the rest :devil I'm OUT :salute
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A big 4 engined heavy bomber has no business being able to be flown like a Stuka. 17s, 24s, Lancs, should only be able to drop bombs when in bombdoor view. Getting rid of F-3 is just a selfish crybaby complaint by a few players who want to be able to slaughter bombers at will.
But every time I see 3 Lancs working a field of GVs with their 14 1,000 lb dive bombs I really want to barf.
I'd like to see CVs hardened up a bit more as well.
As for GVs I'd like to see a better way for them to tower out after they spawn. I dont GV, and the ones who do dont seem to care, but I think it would be fairer to them if the distance needed away from an enemy was shortened. I also think it would energize the GV war if the distance before a base alerts, from non-firing GVs, was shortened too.
I think its a great game that is only getting better.
Anytime I have EVER rolled a GV and not been the recipient of a "ping"; I have ALWAYS received a "Landed Successfully" message regardless of where I'm at near my base. If one bullet pings your GV, you have to hit concrete as I see it. This has been a certainty for me for the 7+ years I've been playing.
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Anytime I have EVER rolled a GV and not been the recipient of a "ping"; I have ALWAYS received a "Landed Successfully" message regardless of where I'm at near my base. If one bullet pings your GV, you have to hit concrete as I see it. This has been a certainty for me for the 7+ years I've been playing.
He means every time..... it is a common occurrence for him to roll a GV. :aok
In fact he cringes if you use the term..... "Let's Roll" when taking off. :t
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I like the game just fine myself. And one of the appealing things is the lack of restrictions.
<snip>
See, you're looking at this as someone suggesting you shouldn't be able to do something- a restriction.
THE GAME DRIVES GAMEPLAY.
Yes, I said it again.
"Toonces, you're crazy! It's the players that drive gameplay!"
Think about the rules of the game:
1. 3 teams, instead of 2 or 4.
2. Big maps vs. small maps. Does the experience change at all between them?
3. EW vs. MW vs. LW.
4. Killshooter. Would the game be different without killshooter? (the game drives gameplay)
5. Perks.
6. ENY.
7. Close bases vs. far bases.
8. Rank/score system.
9. Icon range.
10. Radars.
and so on.
The game drives the gameplay. You change something in the game, it changes how players PLAY the game.
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TBH I think it's probably a bad idea because nothing stopped a Lanc pilot IRL from doing that
I posted the lancs bombing angle limits a while back, pretty sure they exist for all level bombers somewhere. I think the problem with this isn't coading but picking suitable angles, the lancs are pretty straightforward but someone else posted the ?B25's table and they were specified for each type of bomb, for each station.
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I'm starting to miss summer
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Anytime I have EVER rolled a GV and not been the recipient of a "ping"; I have ALWAYS received a "Landed Successfully" message regardless of where I'm at near my base. If one bullet pings your GV, you have to hit concrete as I see it. This has been a certainty for me for the 7+ years I've been playing.
I was talking about spawning GVs. Not GVs coming out of their own base.
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Toonces - Which one of those inherently leads to bad gameplay (or worse gameplay than any of their respective alternatives), or has no positive consequences on gameplay? Of course the game sets the scene for the type of gameplay that'll happen. We have planes with guns; no one is going to fly tourist flights or expect aerobatics competitions in the middle of fighter island. The real question is whether the game, as is, encourages good gameplay VS bad gameplay. And how those influences compare in size and quality, to the influence of players, on gameplay. And the answer is that the players are the prime gameplay drivers. You can build the best game in the world, and players could still make nothing out of that something. That doesn't make it your fault.
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HighTech makes graphic updates because they think it will keep customers. If it looks more cool, it will be more cool. This is nonsense. There is an old expression. "Less is more".
Why add all this crap? You people can not even process over the internet the information from my fighter stick. Now, you are going to add water that looks like a quilt my grandmother crocheted back in 1925? What are you all, stupid?
If you want customers, and if you want people to stop leaving the "game", make it a game.
I read on the bulletin boards years ago, some guy said, "man , I get home form work, and all I want to jump online and have some fun fights".
There is no "fun", at least not for me. Only stupidity. What fun is it for 10 green guys to chase one red guy, or 10 red guys to chase one green guy?
This is why people leave the game. I spent 3 hrs tonight and not a single fight that made any sense what so ever. There was only, as usual, nothing but stupidity.
If you want customers, HighTech, make it a game. Present a challenge your customers can learn and grow into. A game is not a game if it does not make sense and if there is no "challenge". Challenge is what to "game" means. It has always been this way. This is what needs fixing, not the graphics.
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/19/105481919_0354a4fbc1.jpg)
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A game is not a game if it does not make sense and if there is no "challenge".
You know what the number one reason for traffic jams is? All the people in all the cars.
(one more post closer to 100..YA!)
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See, you're looking at this as someone suggesting you shouldn't be able to do something- a restriction.
THE GAME DRIVES GAMEPLAY.
Yes, I said it again.
"Toonces, you're crazy! It's the players that drive gameplay!"
Think about the rules of the game:
1. 3 teams, instead of 2 or 4.
2. Big maps vs. small maps. Does the experience change at all between them?
3. EW vs. MW vs. LW.
4. Killshooter. Would the game be different without killshooter? (the game drives gameplay)
5. Perks.
6. ENY.
7. Close bases vs. far bases.
8. Rank/score system.
9. Icon range.
10. Radars.
and so on.
The game drives the gameplay. You change something in the game, it changes how players PLAY the game.
I completely agree with you that the game setup drives gameplay. I don't think there's an argument against it even. I'm just saying I like it the way it is.
And while the setup may seem somewhat arbitrary I'm sure HTC takes all this stuff very seriously, and it is this way for a reason. The 3 teams for instance, HiTech has explained many times, and it makes perfect sense to me.
And things do change. You can't kill a Spit factory anymore. You can't knock fuel down to 25% any more. And I'm sure a lot of other changes I can't remember.
They also have to ensure some players still work within the framework of the game itself and try to capture bases. Otherwise the whole thing falls apart, and you have planes circling their own bases at 20K, waiting for an attack that never comes. And subscribers drift away.
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HighTech makes graphic updates because they think it will keep customers. If it looks more cool, it will be more cool. This is nonsense. There is an old expression. "Less is more".
Why add all this crap? You people can not even process over the internet the information from my fighter stick. Now, you are going to add water that looks like a quilt my grandmother crocheted back in 1925? What are you all, stupid?
If you want customers, and if you want people to stop leaving the "game", make it a game.
I read on the bulletin boards years ago, some guy said, "man , I get home form work, and all I want to jump online and have some fun fights".
There is no "fun", at least not for me. Only stupidity. What fun is it for 10 green guys to chase one red guy, or 10 red guys to chase one green guy?
This is why people leave the game. I spent 3 hrs tonight and not a single fight that made any sense what so ever. There was only, as usual, nothing but stupidity.
If you want customers, HighTech, make it a game. Present a challenge your customers can learn and grow into. A game is not a game if it does not make sense and if there is no "challenge". Challenge is what to "game" means. It has always been this way. This is what needs fixing, not the graphics.
From your post, the only problem I see if your attitude and probably lack of skill.
ack-ack
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I do have an idea about you credentials dear sir, and I mean the term "sir" in a respectful way. I really do. I have always presumed your passion for aircraft is at the very heart of how this game we play came into existence. I respect this. If there is one thing I respect more than anything else about this game, it is this very thought. You are the creator.
I can not merge my airplane. If I do, simple fact is, I will surely die. I have read previously that this game, and this is a paraphrase quote from you, is a "flight sim". Well, it ain't that now. It is a game similar to one of my first digital game experiences, back in 1976 or so, and that is the game of Invaders. Nothing but stuff vertically dropping out of the sky.
I spent another 3 hours online and could not fight my airplane. It is as simple as that. For instance, I found a p51. I know good and well there were 10 others behind him, so I tried to drag him out for a fight. I think I have drug him out far enough, but no, he is a better pilot I am, and it will take some time to fight this guy. Next thing I know, very typical, here come 10 red guys chasing me. I have no choice but to run back home. He chases me a bit, then next thing you know, there are 10 green guys chasing the P51 I wanted to fight. This is not fun.
It's not fun, its a wast of time. Every single fight I tried to find wound up in nothing but this same sort of stupidity.
Where is the integrity of the game/flight sim you started off to build?
Players are dwindling, I speculate. I heard a guy today on vox and he mentions he is broke and he is trying to decide if he wants to keep cable TV, or internet so he can play aces high. Well, if his flights were the same as mine were today, I would suggest cable TV. It's just food for thought. My prospective.
I can not fight my airplane. That is what I want. I do not want to go to the DA. I want to fight in the wonderful virtual atmosphere of the unknown that exists only from an online game. However, I do want a reasonable fight. Not stupidity and hours wasted of wasted time. Once again, just food for thought. It is your game. I love the airplanes and the thrill of a good fight. Nothing else.
How about a Mundane Monday? Maybe a new style of map. Anything, just throw us old dog fighters a bone. Would it not be a good thing to keep those like me around a bit longer? There are others out there like me. I know so. We search the map and look for a reasonable fight and can not find one.
Ya know, to sum up, as far as fighting the aircraft you have made, they are so very complex, I will never get board of them. Never. This is what irritates me. I love the aircraft, but I want an environment in which to use them, for fun, not stupidity.
Mundane Mondays. A new style map! LoL :) You are a good guy, and as I have said, I respect you immensely.
Again, as m00t pointed out earlier in this thread, you're blaming game design for player behavior. Just because you could not find a 'fight for your airplane' does not mean AH is not a flight sim. Just because a P-51 you encountered would not be suckered out of the safety of the flock also doesn't mean this is not a flight sim. What is pissing you off is player behavior but for some reason you insist it's the fault of HiTech because you ran into a timid pilot.
ack-ack
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A lot of players would have more fun if they just tried different arenas. LWO usually has the big numbers but often LWB is the better fight. Best of all it has more combined arms fights and not just furball,vulch sessions.
I have to bring my puter back into the shop tomorrow and I hope they dont have it to long. Boy I'll miss the kind of fights we just had in LWB. Tanks, flak, fighters, stormbirds...It doesnt get any better then that. :salute
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j00 all make a my head assplode. :rolleyes:
<---- had read all these pages and thinks many thing but has neither the time nor patience to interject, at least while the wine bottle still has wine in it and I'm feeling happy. Too many air-planez to fly, too many ways to die, to worry with all of this.
:aok
Oh, and HiTech ------------ :salute
You are a bad, bad person, being the person responsible for creating and so willfully destributing my addiction. I don't care how much some discontented donutneck complains, you freakin rock, man. :rock
<--- getting ready to log in for a fix........................ :x
ooooops. I interjected.
sorry. :)
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I have to bring my puter back into the shop tomorrow and I hope they dont have it to long. Boy I'll miss the kind of fights we just had in LWB. Tanks, flak, fighters, stormbirds...It doesnt get any better then that. :salute
Which is TONS of fun indeed! And likely the way HiTech intended it to be.. Player behavior cannot be coded, only taught. It is not HTC's responsibility to police the player base on HOW they play the game (so long as it is within the rules et forth) It is the community's job to educate and police itself on gameplay.
Hitech provides us the tools. (the sim) WE must do the work, to make it fun for all.
Sol
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I can't take it anymore. This thread is just...just....just....
I vote YEA to Canonize HiTech for his devout service to humanity.
It's that or ask that he put the booze bottles back in the cokpits..............
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(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/19/105481919_0354a4fbc1.jpg)
:lol
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I vote for a new arena. Where no one HOs, no one has an alt advatage, no one picks, no hordes, no NOEs no ENY all sides equal sheep have low morals and even lower standards channel 200 is friendly country channel is informative and spitxvi's are perked. Until we get this, I ll hang in LW
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A lot of players would have more fun if they just tried different arenas. LWO usually has the big numbers but often LWB is the better fight. Best of all it has more combined arms fights and not just furball,vulch sessions.
MW has probably the most even matched plane set of any of the arenas and for the most part, good fights can be easily found and had. This also includes the ground portion of the game. Heck, I finally found myself in a Tiger tank for the first time in about 4 years and landed 10 kills defending our town from repeated GV assaults. I've also been flying the B-25H a lot more, especially in the anti-shipping role. The immersion factor of those runs in the B-25H against the fleets have been great fun, some of the best I've had in a long time.
ack-ack
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Edit: Unless, of course, he wants to step up right now and express his opposition to it. Big Grin
[/qutoe]
Hey def person, I have said this over 2 years ago, and you again are myopic enough to bring it into a completely unrelated topic.
I will say it clearly.
I think limiting bombing to internal only and limiting dive angle is one of the most stupid moronic self severing ideas I have ever heard.
HiTech
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I posted the lancs bombing angle limits a while back, pretty sure they exist for all level bombers somewhere. I think the problem with this isn't coading but picking suitable angles, the lancs are pretty straightforward but someone else posted the ?B25's table and they were specified for each type of bomb, for each station.
IIRC, from what you posted, lancs could do 35 degrees..
I'm pretty sure most "lancstukas" in game are pitched down less than 35 degrees.. In fact, they seem to try glide bombing from about 15-20 degrees pitch.
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You can release bombs while completely inverted, i.e. 180 degrees. :lol
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You can release bombs while completely inverted, i.e. 180 degrees. :lol
yea thats :rolleyes:
im just saying that what most ppl call "lankstuka'ing" or otherwise "dive bombing lancs" may in fact be historically accurate. i.e. just cuz he aint in his bombsight doesnt mean hes necessarily gaming the game..
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yea thats :rolleyes:
im just saying that what most ppl call "lankstuka'ing" or otherwise "dive bombing lancs" may in fact be historically accurate.....
Lancasters were expressly forbiden by Bomber Command to dive bomb because of the great risk of them colliding with low altitude submarines in the North Sea coastal areas. This was extended to 200 miles inland when there was an unfortunate incident with an off course boat wandering lost during a blinding storm.
...just FYI eh!!
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I'm curious if HTC would enable collision damage (canned, if actual physics are too expensive) for bombs being thrown against the dropping airplane itself (bomb bay or wings or any other part of the plane). That would apply to everyone and be a matter of nothing but plain physics.
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I'm curious if HTC would enable collision damage (canned, if actual physics are too expensive) for bombs being thrown against the dropping airplane itself (bomb bay or wings or any other part of the plane). That would apply to everyone and be a matter of nothing but plain physics.
I will say it clearly.
I think limiting bombing to internal only and limiting dive angle is one of the most stupid moronic self severing ideas I have ever heard.
HiTech
Same result..... same answer
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How are the two equivalent? Did any of our bombers or attackers have bomb-eject gadgets on the shackles/racks?
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The two are equivalent because the only resulting change would be in dive angle or approach in bombing. Which obviously HTC is very happy to allow bombing from gamey or impossible physical approaches.
IMO its not a matter of historical accuracy or physical possibility....... its being left as is to promote "easy mode" bombing........ thus allowing any skill level to enjoy the game.
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How are the two equivalent? Did any of our bombers or attackers have bomb-eject gadgets on the shackles/racks?
What you wish on modeling the internal bay collisions is the correct way to go. While it can not be completely detailed, it could be fairly representative of a real bomb bay.
But in the scream of things it is fairly low on the list simply because it really would not effect game play that much. People would just learn very quickly how to get into dropping parameters and hence things would not really change much.
HiTech
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Thanks HT.
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What you wish on modeling the internal bay collisions is the correct way to go. While it can not be completely detailed, it could be fairly representative of a real bomb bay.
But in the scream of things it is fairly low on the list simply because it really would not effect game play that much. People would just learn very quickly how to get into dropping parameters and hence things would not really change much.
HiTech
So is there any way, in your opinion, of fixing the lancstuka issue? Or is it even worth addressing in your opinion?
--edit-- Thanks in advance :)
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So is there any way, in your opinion, of fixing the lancstuka issue? Or is it even worth addressing in your opinion?
--edit-- Thanks in advance :)
If you wish an answer try asking again in a real way with out the attitude you are portraying.
HiTech
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HiTech, once the dust settles with the new revision and patching...is there a possibility of making it so a bomber cannot drop it's load in an unrealistic manner? (i.e. inverted or unrealistic dive angle for the model)
I've never tried the "lancstuka" thing because I know the wings will rip off but, I've seen others do it.
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Other than being in a GV (which is rare) I love seeing a lancstuka....
Without a doubt Lancstukas drop a lot more ordnance per target than level bombing. A good bomber pilot be a lot more effective and less easy to intercept from higher altitude.
Careful what you wish for....1 dead hanger and three easy kills or three dead hangers and 1 kill. (A bit broad but you get the idea.)
Unless you go on principle and hate seeing historical methods being cutout like me......
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If you wish an answer try asking again in a real way with out the attitude you are portraying.
HiTech
No attitude intended. Honestly, if putting in the angle limiter isn't an answer, and the bomb bay modeling wouldn't change it, I was simply asking what you think really would change and/or fix the issue of 4 engine bombers being able to dive bomb the way they do currently.
Apologies for any confusion re: attitude. I was just thinking asking directly would be the better way to go.
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While I would agree that the OP went about things entirely the wrong way..... doesnt it seem the conversation has come full circle a bit?
So many have spent the last few days flaming and saying that changes to the game have nothing to do with gameplay and instead its the players who drive gameplay. Now those very same people are suggesting changes to the game to drive gameplay?
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While I would agree that the OP went about things entirely the wrong way..... doesnt it seem the conversation has come full circle a bit?
So many have spent the last few days flaming and saying that changes to the game have nothing to do with gameplay and instead its the players who drive gameplay. Now those very same people are suggesting changes to the game to drive gameplay?
Only to stop some players from exploiting certain aspects..a.k.a. "gaming the game". There are more people who don't exploit such things than there are who do so the idea still stands...the players dictate gameplay in a conscious manner.
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No attitude intended. Honestly, if putting in the angle limiter isn't an answer, and the bomb bay modeling wouldn't change it, I was simply asking what you think really would change and/or fix the issue of 4 engine bombers being able to dive bomb the way they do currently.
I do not agree with the premises of this statement. You claim there is an issue to fix with out any facts that there is an issue to fix,rather that people who do not fly bombers much do not like the tactics the bombers are using. But as normal many people wish to use selective realism. They only wish to complain about the Bombers when any plane that caries bombs even on the wings have the same issues. These same people are not up in arms about being able to shoot bullets when out side of real world parameters.
No one also has in any way showed that the current use of bombers is bad for game play, they just claim it should be changed because they do not like what ever the target is being destroyed, so they search for an excuse to have it changed.
HiTech
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Hitech,
For me the lancstuka is the most unhistorical aspect of the game aside from having three countries. As I already mentioned, in terms of targets being destroyed I could careless. How would one prove that they are bad for game play in your eyes?
Strip
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Let me preface this by saying I am horrible at all forms of math, and I've never studied the bomb release mechanisms for these aircraft.
That being said, any plane that caries bombs even on the wings have the same issues.
Just confused me beyond belief.
I would have thought that the internal bombs (at least the last few on the stick) would need much gentler angles to avoid impacting against the releasing aircraft than a bomb falling "externally" off a wing.
Did internal ordinance have some sort of propulsion out of the aircraft, and not just rely on gravity?
(I'm not trying to argue anything, just figure out what's going on).
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Batch, re-read the posts... Of course the game sets the scene for gameplay. But not as much as players, with AH. It's not such a simple thing.. Depending on the players, it could be the game that's most decisive of what gameplay turns out to be (e.g. if players were flawlessly disciplined). But that's not how it is right now, and for a while now, in AH. And arguing that players are the main drivers of gameplay doesn't exclude asking for realistic fundamentals like bombs released thru the bombers' roof. That's not tantamount to admitting bombs flying thru the roof of bombers is one of the top few major factors in all of AH's gameplay.
Strip I'd say you have to find a clear case for it being unfair.. as was e.g. stick stirring to induce warps. I know and agree with formations being used in ways that're too gamey, but I can't think of any case where it'd be possible to do something about it without penalizing other players that do nothing wrong.
Vudak I think that's a reference to wings having only a small vulnerable area directly above the bomb, whereas internal bombs were enclosed inside a whole bomb bay. So even though internal bombs had to safely travel out of the bay before being out of their danger zone, the basic principle is the same.. You have to let gravity accelerate the bombs to a safe distance before being free of collision risk. Which is why some people will argue to limit internal bomb release to some dive angles: because past a certain release angle, the bombs wouldnt get out of the bomb bay and into the outside air's drag as quick as they would from level. Of course you have to keep in mind both gravity and the plane's acceleration in 3D.
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:angel:
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Mash - You have to be precise what's insane. I.E. why it's insane if at no point in the dive does the plane exceed its structural limits. If it doesn't, you're penalizing fair gameplayers too. You have to find a clear thing that distinguishes fair (even if eccentric) from unfair tactics, like warps were for stick stirring.
edit - hehe
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I do not agree with the premises of this statement.
Fair nuff.
You claim there is an issue to fix with out any facts that there is an issue to fix,rather that people who do not fly bombers much do not like the tactics the bombers are using. But as normal many people wish to use selective realism. They only wish to complain about the Bombers when any plane that caries bombs even on the wings have the same issues. These same people are not up in arms about being able to shoot bullets when out side of real world parameters.
Okay, I'm assuming you're talking about bomb collisions with releasing a/c. I'm 100% for that. Dropping bombs while inverted should cost the airplane a wing, if not more.
However, that being said, a 4 engined bomber has a massively heavier payload then say your Me-110 diving on a field. Using the capability of diving at a 45-90 degree angle they can significantly damage an airfield, and ruin an entire fight in a single dive. Could they do it level? Sure, but it's much much harder (i.e., the way it should be according to popular opinion).
Granted a flight of singe or twin engined a/c (like say ten or more) can accomplish the same thing, but the idea of a 4 engined bomber diving in the way they do currently doesn't sit right with a lot of people.
No one also has in any way showed that the current use of bombers is bad for game play, they just claim it should be changed because they do not like what ever the target is being destroyed, so they search for an excuse to have it changed.
HiTech
I believe the issue is not the targets being destroyed, but rather the manner in which they're being destroyed.
If a squad of Lancasters cruises over a field at 25K unopposed and drops every singler hangar at a field, you'll hear cries of "Fun police strike again!" - but even through that people will acknowledge it was a legitimate toolshed op, that's what the hangars are there for. To be destroyed.
But if you see a Lancaster screaming in a dive and doing the same thing, it generates an entirely different response. There's no way a 4 engine bomber could sustain the forces these things are capable of in-game, and it just looks silly. The only images we've ever seen of bombers in these kinds of angles are when they're spinning out of control heading for terra firma.
100% realism = no fun at all (see Targetware), and I realize the need to balance it (meaning realism vs playability), but having that kind of firepower being delivered that accurately with that kind of ease does indeed affect gameplay to a significant degree.
Anyway, thanks for reading. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Please feel free to let me know why.
Also that bomb collision thing- any chance of us getting it?
Keep up the good work. :)
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The last time I saw a Lancstuka was in 2005.
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However, that being said, a 4 engined bomber has a massively heavier payload then say your Me-110 diving on a field. Using the capability of diving at a 45-90 degree angle they can significantly damage an airfield, and ruin an entire fight in a single dive.
How is that more damaging than level bombing? If you mean that they can point at more targets by virtue of aiming the bombs with their diving velocity instead of being limited by level-bombing's speed restriction (sight calibration), that's not enough to hold against them. How is it inherently wrong for a heavy like the Lanc to dive bomb, if he's not exceeding the structural limits?
And I'm not on the lancstukas' side here.. but the only way you can do something about them is fairly. i.e. not throwing the baby (fair players) with the bathwater (unfair exploits). And I don't wanna speak for HTC or anything, but someone (Pyro or HT) did say they were considering voiding damage if the damager didn't survive his drop for x amount of time (seconds) after impact. That must've been back in the days where tiffie raids really did have a considerable amount of suiciders.
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What you wish on modeling the internal bay collisions is the correct way to go. While it can not be completely detailed, it could be fairly representative of a real bomb bay.
But in the scream of things it is fairly low on the list simply because it really would not effect game play that much. People would just learn very quickly how to get into dropping parameters and hence things would not really change much.
HiTech
From the developer's standpoint, why would adding a dive angle limiter be a bad game design decision? Not trying to be a smart ass, just a professional curiousity.
ack-ack
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How is that more damaging than level bombing?
Read the full post- it's not more damaging, but it's more accurate.
If you mean that they can point at more targets by virtue of aiming the bombs with their diving velocity instead of being limited by level-bombing's speed restriction (sight calibration), that's not enough to hold against them. How is it inherently wrong for a heavy like the Lanc to dive bomb, if he's not exceeding the structural limits?
Technically, there is nothing inherently "wrong" with it, but do you really think 4 engined bombers were capable of the things they are in here? I acknowledge the need for playability (i.e. an F4U doesn't flip over on it's back at low speed when you firewall the throttle), but c'mon.
And I'm not on the lancstukas' side here.. but the only way you can do something about them is fairly. i.e. not throwing the baby (fair players) with the bathwater (unfair exploits). And I don't wanna speak for HTC or anything, but someone (Pyro or HT) did say they were considering voiding damage if the damager didn't survive his drop for x amount of time (seconds) after impact. That must've been back in the days where tiffie raids really did have a considerable amount of suiciders.
Well suicide bombing and voiding damage is one thing worth considering.
Now taking into consideration that in the game's current state, it is *not* an unfair exploit (like the terrain vis GV tricks of yore), but also considering the sheer amount of firepower being delivered that accurately (a full lanc bay on different targets with dive bombing precision)- an issue does in fact exist.
Now it's really up to Hitech and crew to decide if it really is a gameplay concern, or just a matter of players whining about the fights being killed (a la the CV hardness threads).
I for one am for bomb collision on releasing a/c, and a fresh look at the f/m's and/or the structural limits of the 4 engined bombers.
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IIRC, from what you posted, lancs could do 35 degrees..
I checked again and its 30deg for diving. a bigger restriction for the cuban-8/yoyoing lancstuka might be the 10deg roll limitation. BTW these are RL limitations, from the book, not artificial limits to tweak gameplay.
Release only in F6? no - common tactics were to have a lead buff aim and then call release for the rest of the box, so release in F1 mode has to be allowed. (great fun btw, try it :aok)
Release in F3? I cant see any justification for this at all. as I understand it F3 is only enabled to simulate the peripheral view that having a crew of gunners provides for defense against fighters. Personally I'd disable firing of any weapons in F3 mode.
Release in F5? Of course not. In fact, why is this even enabled in the MA?
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For the Record: I LOVE killing Lancasters flown by VF15 in MidWar. It is always some of the most satifying killing I do in there.
I have issues with some aspects of the game but I do not sweat it. No point in getting all lathered up, but I do post in the bugs forum from time to time. It gets read in there and if HTC figures it matters then they will fix it. If they figure it doesn't matter then they will not fix it. If I get lathered up (or burned out) I take a break. So far I have always returned. Some day I will not. No big deal.
Some of you folks take yourselves, and the game, way too seriously.
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but do you really think 4 engined bombers were capable of the things they are in here?
I dunno, but I think your intended point is now clearer than in the previous posts :aok
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In real life the dive angle was usually offset by the will of the crew to live.
Air frames tend to self destruct when not oriented as design intended.
In AH they get a brand new plane. :aok
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Some of you folks take yourselves, and the game, way too seriously.
:aok :rock :salute
There is a lot of them too... :lol
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Rebel: You are mixing 2 issues.
1. Airframe limitations. These are already modeled as accurately as information we have on the planes.
2. Accuracy. I would find it very hard to believe that a lanc can be more accurate dive bombing then level bombing. I would agree that low level vs high level is more accurate.
So assume for 1 sec that we limit to angle of dive to drop bombs, If I was a player, I would find a method to calibrate the sight for high speed come diving down as before, jump in the bomb sight and then still hit the same target at the same speed.
So now if we would make this change, what would the outcome be? Nothing, people would just then be asking for the bomb sight to be disabled at low level.
Now think about the desire to remove F6 view bombing, ok how long does it take to press F1 and then B? I.E. again no net effect. So what will the players be asking for next. Ok now we need to be in cockpit for a given period of time before droping bombs. But this then starts to mess with defending yourself.
Now if your speaking of suicide dive bombing runs, yes they may be more accurate method of bombing, Im not sure I have never really tried that, but with that issue you have the same issue with any plane not just the lanc or big bombers.
And rebel , Im not jumping on you, these are the type of discussions that are fun for all and I also enjoy.
HiTech
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I checked again and its 30deg for diving. a bigger restriction for the cuban-8/yoyoing lancstuka might be the 10deg roll limitation. BTW these are RL limitations, from the book, not artificial limits to tweak gameplay.
Release in F3? I cant see any justification for this at all. Personally I'd disable firing of any weapons in F3 mode.
Release in F5? Of course not. In fact, why is this even enabled in the MA?
From HiTech's last post...those 3 suggestions might be the easiest, least offensive and toughest things for the "gamers" to overcome.
I've never seen a dive bombing Lanc but I know how to rip the wings off one trying to do it. :D
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2. Accuracy. I would find it very hard to believe that a lanc can be more accurate dive bombing then level bombing. I would agree that low level vs high level is more accurate.
Dive bombing Lancs, anytime I have seen them, are always delivering their load at a very low level ... 1.5K and below ... hence the accuracy would be very good ? ... and the amount of ordinance on the target is really concentrated ... like 20 F6Fs in a very close formation all dropping ord at the same time on a target.
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First off, thanks for responding. I enjoy yakkin' with ya, and it's been a pleasure watching your game grow over the years.
Rebel: You are mixing 2 issues.
1. Airframe limitations. These are already modeled as accurately as information we have on the planes.
I understand that, and really they indeed may have been capable of the dives we sometimes see.
However, I think that this issue dovetails with the ability of the pilot to change direction and/or perform radical maneuvers in such a large aircraft. I've never flown a B-17 so I can't say with any certainty if it was capable of performing barrel rolls, loops, power dives and hammerheads. It seems that it really shouldn't be able to, but then again, we don't have to worry about becoming pancakes for buzzards if we screw it up ;)
2. Accuracy. I would find it very hard to believe that a lanc can be more accurate dive bombing then level bombing. I would agree that low level vs high level is more accurate.
Actually, it really and truly is. If you come in over a base, set your salvo, pitch up to near stall speed, and cut the engines, you can shove the stick forward until you're going damn near straight down. From that point you let it stabilize for a second or two, and then using roll and yaw, you can aim bombs MUCH easier, and attack multiple targets with much more accuracy then if you were level.
So assume for 1 sec that we limit to angle of dive to drop bombs, If I was a player, I would find a method to calibrate the sight for high speed come diving down as before, jump in the bomb sight and then still hit the same target at the same speed.
I think we're crossing wires here. The issue is not at what speed the bomber is dropping it's eggs, it's the method of delivery that's being called into question. Limiting the angle of bomb release in heavy bombers would simply remove the capability of the method I described above.
Now think about the desire to remove F6 view bombing, ok how long does it take to press F1 and then B? I.E. again no net effect. So what will the players be asking for next. Ok now we need to be in cockpit for a given period of time before droping bombs. But this then starts to mess with defending yourself.
I assume you're talking about limiting bombing to F6 and just crossed your keys here. Agreed- there is no net effect as there is a hundred different ways to go around that function. Macros, buttons on any programmable stick could easily sidestep it with ease. No, limiting dropping bombs to the f6 position is NOT a fix.
Now if your speaking of suicide dive bombing runs, yes they may be more accurate method of bombing, Im not sure I have never really tried that, but with that issue you have the same issue with any plane not just the lanc or big bombers.
Right you are, but you have to remember- the firepower being delivered is vastly different between the different aircraft. A suicidal divebombing B24 will cause many times more damage then a suicidal bombing F6F Hellcat, and with the same accuracy.
And rebel , Im not jumping on you, these are the type of discussions that are fun for all and I also enjoy.
HiTech
I've been yakkin at ya since WB's 2.0, dude. It's all good. :)
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Dive bombing Lancs, anytime I have seen them, are always delivering their load at a very low level ... 1.5K and below ... hence the accuracy would be very good ? ... and the amount of ordinance on the target is really concentrated ... like 20 F6Fs in a very close formation all dropping ord at the same time on a target.
Couple that with the fact that two out of the three Lancs will almost always survive the first low level pass over a fully armed town (usually all three will survive the first pass) makes the Lanc a superb town destroyer when employed by a player who cares not whether he lands the sortie and in fact fully intends not to. Now get two or three guys to do this concurrently and the targeted town is down in 30 seconds easy.
It is gamey as hell but the truth is having 9+ lancs to kill in a hurry is a lot of fun :)
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yea thats :rolleyes:
im just saying that what most ppl call "lankstuka'ing" or otherwise "dive bombing lancs" may in fact be historically accurate. i.e. just cuz he aint in his bomb sight doesn't mean hes necessarily gaming the game..
"Historically accurate" when? and Where?
The closest thing to it would be the skip bombing mostly used in the PTO, against shipping, and mostly using medium bombers. The A-20, B-25s. The B-17s were used but not as much. Even then the bombers came in level, hosing their targets with forward guns, releasing their bombs and then gaining altitude as they went over their targets.
There was no real life comparison to dive bombing GVs in heavy 4 engined bombers.
And it is easier and more accurate dive bombing from Lancs from low Alts then in using the bomb sight. Not just that but your SA is far better cause your in F3 most of the time. Thats how I bomb in IL2s. I set the IL2 a set distance in F3, line up the target at the speed I want, and when the target is exactly at the point I want it in F3 mode I pop into pilots seat and finish the release. Thats how guys bomb so well out of A-20s and its the very same procedure that allows accurate Lanc-stuka'ing.
The difference being the 2 engined jobs really were/are dive bombers that took out GVs. The heavy 4 engined jobbies didnt.
An A-20 holds 8 500lb bombs. The single IL2 4 200lb bombs. A set of Lanc-stukas 42 1,000lb bombs. The 1,000lb cookies are the real GV killers in the game.
I once killed a tank thru the bombsight from 10,000' up. I just happened to see the glare of it in the sun. But generally? Its the far better situational awareness/views that makes it easier to dive bomb heavies from low ALT instead of sitting in the bomb sight. You can see the GVs, in F3, from a long ways off and then line them up far easier cause the controls are far more responsive using the stick then in bomb sight mode. Where basically you have reduced views and no more then rudder control, and even that only horizontal. :salute
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May I request that a party trusted by the community test Lancasters offline for their structural breaking point. Attack your own CV.
1. Test for what point in a dive from 10k pulls the wings off as you pull out of the dive with no bombs and 50% fuel.
2. Test for what point dive bombing from 10k will pull the wings off, same fuel.
3. Replicate these tests again at 7k, 5k, and 3k.
I trust HiTech's data for constructing his virtual Lancasters. We use all of his planes in ways the real pilots from WW2 probably would not and they survive. This is a tribute to the genius of those past Engineers who sent our grandfathers out to war. When we know the structural limits from these tests inside of the game, then at that point you will have a conversation. As of yet the argument is about personal bias to how the game should or should not be played.
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<snip>
...makes the Lanc a superb town destroyer when employed by a player who cares not whether he lands the sortie and in fact fully intends not to.
<snip>
This is what you guys should be concentrating on (IMO) rather than whether or not a lancaster can "stuka" or not.
The problem here, as I've stated 3 times now, is that there is no real incentive for the player in the lancstuka to care whether he lives or dies...unless he cares about his a) score or b) perks. I can guarantee you here can't be but 10 guys in this game that care about their bomber perks. So that leaves score. I have no idea if anyone at all cares about their bomber score.
The GAME rewards this type of behavior because it's far more efficient to kill yourself in bombers than to fly them in any sort of "survivable" manner at all (except to get to target and actually deliver the bombs), like Anaxagoras said pages ago.
There was a game I read about a long time ago, I think it was Everquest but it might have been some other game. In it, you built up your character with all sorts of gucci armor and weapons and such. But, when you got killed in the game, you respawned at the nearest town and you had 30 minutes to go find your dead corpse and recollect your belongings. After that, any player that walked by could pick up your stuff that you've invested however many days/months/years accumulating.
Think about that. You had an investment in your character and you had an incentive to not needlessly throw your life away.
Like I said before, this game (IMO) sorely misses some aspect like this. If you invest some sort of...something...in your virtual life that encourages you to LIVE, you'll see a lot less of this type of stuff. At the risk of other adverse behavior perhaps...like timidity I suppose.
Perking ordnance would somewhat improve (IMO) bomber behavior...if you don't land your bomber sortie, you don't get any perks. Without perks you can't grab formations or can only carry a light bomb load or something. I'm sure somebody has posted eloquently on this in the last month.
And so on.
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"At the risk of other adverse behavior perhaps...like timidity I suppose. "
Key words there.
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"At the risk of other adverse behavior perhaps...like timidity I suppose"
Biggest problem in the game IMHO.
<S>
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See Rule #4
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the people at HTC have been doing this MMO gig as long or longer than anyone in the business. They know the deal.......
this game is the way it is because of nearly twenty years of compromise. You can tell because 100% of the matured customer base is 50% satisfed all the time.
Thats how they have achieved such longevity. By making damned sure NO ONE is 100% satisfied all of the time. Because if someone were 100% satisfied all the time, there would be someone 100% equally disatisfied all the time. Thats the way it works, if you have been around long enough to see the broader trends.
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So what if no one looses their life by going balls out in every situation and we should all have no fear because you say so Moot. Who made you god to judge in this game short of your personal EGO need to denigrate players or people in general for not living up to your fantasies of game ideology? Your statement is an old canard which sets whole groups of PAYING CUSTOMERS in a group class below your self anointment to GOD of Aces High2 morality. How they play the game is THEIR expression of $14.95 a month. You have now relegated their hard earned money to be worth less than yours. Has HiTech ever publicly, privatly, or other wise given you the right as a HTC spoksman to denegrate paying customers for their game play choices?
Do you ever see HiTech denigrate whole groups of paying customers the way you freely do on this BBS, especialy now that you are a member of the Aces High Traning Group? I've always had the impressing the HTC Trainers were chosen for having their EGO's under control.
why didn't you just PM him on this instead of a publicly open attack? this makes you better in what way?
These discussons seem to devolve into the complainers and game play officiondos wanting only those who are worthy of thier ideals playing the game or suffering red badges of cowerdness and scorn. What a nose bleed blue blooded special place they want Aces High to be.
go back and see my 1st post to this thread......... all gameplay issues is the players of the game.. how we mold the community and mold the game play.....
I bet Moot has never taken HiTech aside and spoken in a heart to heart manner about how the game is being ruined by all the panty waste cowards and riff raff............
I bet hitech would listen with an open ear, if he did!!! but what does this have to do with this thread.........and again go back and read my 1st post in this thread......
cheerio good fellow :aok
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May I request that a party trusted by the community test Lancasters offline for their structural breaking point. Attack your own CV.
1. Test for what point in a dive from 10k pulls the wings off as you pull out of the dive with no bombs and 50% fuel.
2. Test for what point dive bombing from 10k will pull the wings off, same fuel.
3. Replicate these tests again at 7k, 5k, and 3k.
Answer to all = 380 mph (airspeed) depending on dive angle and how hard you pull back on the stick, just using the elevator trim will do it if you use the same angle as a dive bomber. At 400+ they come off automatically.
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So what if no one looses their life by going balls out in every situation and we should all have no fear because you say so Moot. Who made you god to judge in this game short of your personal EGO need to denigrate players or people in general for not living up to your fantasies of game ideology? Your statement is an old canard which sets whole groups of PAYING CUSTOMERS in a group class below your self anointment to GOD of Aces High2 morality. How they play the game is THEIR expression of $14.95 a month. You have now relegated their hard earned money to be worth less than yours. Has HiTech ever publicly, privatly, or other wise given you the right as a HTC spoksman to denegrate paying customers for their game play choices?
Do you ever see HiTech denigrate whole groups of paying customers the way you freely do on this BBS, especialy now that you are a member of the Aces High Traning Group? I've always had the impressing the HTC Trainers were chosen for having their EGO's under control.
These discussons seem to devolve into the complainers and game play officiondos wanting only those who are worthy of thier ideals playing the game or suffering red badges of cowerdness and scorn. What a nose bleed blue blooded special place they want Aces High to be. And I bet Moot has never taken HiTech aside and spoken in a heart to heart manner about how the game is being ruined by all the panty waste cowards and riff raff............
Dude what are you talking about.. Too much incentive to survive will make players fly more timidly. It's a real trend even now. Look at the score guys. It's got nothing to do with me or my ego or anything in your rant. It's simple fact, nothing more and nothing to do with ideology. There's nothing denigrating in my posts. Just plain straight to the point arguing of the facts.
Heck.. Look at WWII. Look at the squads that fly historically. It's about surviving and picking your fights. You might be in the middle of a real hand-wetting fight, and have to bug out of it because making it home is a higher priority. That means combat takes a back seat to landing safely. I don't see how it's denigrating to point this out.
And FYI (and I'm being completely forthcoming here) I wouldnt complain to or try to convince HT that the game is going down the tubes because of cowards, or whatever strawman you imagine. The first thing I'd talk to him about are the physics of the FMs, pick his brain on the strat mechanics of the game and air combat... And ask him about using the CT AI to give players 24/7 practice on pretty much anything feasible.. e.g. bring up the clipboard and click on "offensive practice > barrel roll", and then set the AI difficulty to "slightly better" than the player... so that it would adapt to the player and force him to push his best that bit further. And then when either AI or player is shot down, click on "replay", and instantly the player is zoomed back to the start of that lesson/practice session. That would be excellent tool for players. They could have the AI flying any ACM in the whole encyclopedia of air combat, just a click away.
That's the type of thing I'd bend HT's ear on because I like taking stuff apart and putting it back together. I like systems. I like analyzing stuff. If that makes for incisive debunking of erroneous arguments on the forum.. It's not out of ego or ideology or anything. I just have a knack for debate and shaking things down. It's not personal.
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"Historically accurate" when? and Where?
The closest thing to it would be the skip bombing mostly used in the PTO, against shipping, and mostly using medium bombers. The A-20, B-25s. The B-17s were used but not as much. Even then the bombers came in level, hosing their targets with forward guns, releasing their bombs and then gaining altitude as they went over their targets.
There was no real life comparison to dive bombing GVs in heavy 4 engined bombers.
Ok, I readily admit I have no actual history. I'm going by what RTholmes posted months ago, from a period lanc POH that was posted, where it showed max "dive" bombing angle at 30 degrees. Whether it was ever done in real life, I have no idea. I accept that is probably was not.
I think I might be questioning what people consider "dive bombing"... A lanc at 3000agl dropping on a gv is not necessarily "dive bombing", especially when he is starting the "dive" 2 miles out..
PS. I never fly lancs, and the last time i did, it wasnt against gv's.
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HighTech makes graphic updates because they think it will keep customers. If it looks more cool, it will be more cool. This is nonsense. There is an old expression. "Less is more".
Why add all this crap? You people can not even process over the internet the information from my fighter stick. Now, you are going to add water that looks like a quilt my grandmother crocheted back in 1925? What are you all, stupid?
If you want customers, and if you want people to stop leaving the "game", make it a game.
I read on the bulletin boards years ago, some guy said, "man , I get home form work, and all I want to jump on-line and have some fun fights".
There is no "fun", at least not for me. Only stupidity. What fun is it for 10 green guys to chase one red guy, or 10 red guys to chase one green guy?
This is why people leave the game. I spent 3 hrs tonight and not a single fight that made any sense what so ever. There was only, as usual, nothing but stupidity.
If you want customers, HighTech, make it a game. Present a challenge your customers can learn and grow into. A game is not a game if it does not make sense and if there is no "challenge". Challenge is what to "game" means. It has always been this way. This is what needs fixing, not the graphics.
He was a bit offensive, and abrasive. But he still had a point, and allot of people are saying the same thing. Its the same gripe you here in any game that is being "Fixed", stop with the NEW stuff, fix the old problems Be for making new ones.
Why is it that the same people that go from post to post slamming others Never have any thing positive to contribute? All you do is slam others to no usefull end and take away from the REAL reason for the forums to addres some ones problem not make new ones. Grow some self respect it helps to so you know how to show some for others. His point was valid, he pays for the game and like allot of people do he can stop paying for it to and if allot do then it stops being. This game is not one of a kind but it is good and can, (like anything Man makes) be better. How can it be better, is what the forums are for, not to come and disrespect others to bolster your own sagging self image. So offer something that is use full, Even if its just keeping silent if you don't have any thing usefull. Just tired of the slamming for no reason Sorry to be off point. Fix the maps Less nifty desighns more realistick. Fix the curent equipment, ask for tips if you dont know whats broke. and Get rid of the Supper trees and shrubs that can flip a Tiger tank like it was a rag dall. my peevs,, thanks. :D
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So what if no one looses their life by going balls out in every situation and we should all have no fear because you say so Moot. Who made you god to judge in this game short of your personal EGO need to denigrate players or people in general for not living up to your fantasies of game ideology? Your statement is an old canard which sets whole groups of PAYING CUSTOMERS in a group class below your self anointment to GOD of Aces High2 morality. How they play the game is THEIR expression of $14.95 a month. You have now relegated their hard earned money to be worth less than yours. Has HiTech ever publicly, privatly, or other wise given you the right as a HTC spoksman to denegrate paying customers for their game play choices?
Do you ever see HiTech denigrate whole groups of paying customers the way you freely do on this BBS, especialy now that you are a member of the Aces High Traning Group? I've always had the impressing the HTC Trainers were chosen for having their EGO's under control.
These discussons seem to devolve into the complainers and game play officiondos wanting only those who are worthy of thier ideals playing the game or suffering red badges of cowerdness and scorn. What a nose bleed blue blooded special place they want Aces High to be. And I bet Moot has never taken HiTech aside and spoken in a heart to heart manner about how the game is being ruined by all the panty waste cowards and riff raff............
Wow you sound like your ego is hurt.
All I saw posted was about how timid some folks fly. It does take away from the game. Doesn't mean they are not allowed to fly that way though. Once they have been in the game awhile they'll learn it is all about fun..... why run.
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Why gang? 3s a crowd.
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They dont start their dive from that far out in the game. In fact they dont start their dives much different then the Jabos do. You dont even have to be 1,000 yrds up either, only 1,000 away for the bombs to work.
Ok, I readily admit I have no actual history. I'm going by what RTholmes posted months ago, from a period lanc POH that was posted, where it showed max "dive" bombing angle at 30 degrees. Whether it was ever done in real life, I have no idea. I accept that is probably was not.
I think I might be questioning what people consider "dive bombing"... A lanc at 3000agl dropping on a gv is not necessarily "dive bombing", especially when he is starting the "dive" 2 miles out..
PS. I never fly lancs, and the last time i did, it wasnt against gv's.
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...
The way I see it, this is basically arguing that an inanimate environment is more decisive for resulting gameplay than are the active agents that players are. I could see how this would be true if either the inanimate scene that players act on was especially restrictive, or if the players were perfectly disciplined. But they aren't so disciplined nor very homogeneous at all, and the game (for some basic reasons, not least of which is that fun and tactical freedom are top priorities) isn't all that restrictive: you can switch sides every hour, there aren't any historical restrictions (e.g. plane choice or rolling plane set), no one tells you what to do - you can fly whatever kind of sortie you want... and so on. It's players that are the single most decisive factor in gameplay, and they will be so long as the game is as open ended as it is now, in the MA. In fact.... Look at the DA lake today, and years ago, for a slightly more extreme example of laissez-faire gameplay.
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Wow you sound like your ego is hurt.
All I saw posted was about how timid some folks fly. It does take away from the game. Doesn't mean they are not allowed to fly that way though. Once they have been in the game awhile they'll learn it is all about fun..... why run.
I honestly see more aggression to the point of stupidity than I do timidity. The average k/d is what, less than 1 after all?
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The average k/d is what, less than 1 after all?
Doesn't that only point to a minority killing the remaining majority?
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The average k/d is what, less than 1 after all?
Well of course the average K/D is less than 1, it is impossible to be greater than 1.
For every Kill there must be a death. but for ever death there does not need to be a kill (I.E crash into the ground like me), Hence # of deaths must be >= number of kills. So K/D must always be <= 1.
HiTech
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Well of course the average K/D is less than 1, it is impossible to be greater than 1.
For every Kill there must be a death. but for ever death there does not need to be a kill (I.E crash into the ground like me), Hence # of deaths must be >= number of kills. So K/D must always be <= 1.
HiTech
Ouch...
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I read BnZ as meaning average k/d is very low, pointing to most players dying much more than killing. His suggestion, then, that that's from flying "unsafely" rather than "safely".
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For every Kill there must be a death. but for ever death there does not need to be a kill (I.E crash into the ground like me), Hence # of deaths must be >= number of kills. So K/D must always be <= 1.
HiTech
Ow, Ow, Ow. <Rubs head>
ReDhAwK :confused:
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I read BnZ as meaning average k/d is very low
Just FYI, the "average" AH fighter pilot K/D is 0.30-0.35 in most tours. 50% of all players are below that line.
Usually only about 20% of all players get 1.0 or better. Less than 10% get 2.0 or better.
Of course this includes all those players doing just a hop or two during their trial before deleting the game again.
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You can change player behavior very easily. Make some sort of penalty for getting killed. Then you'd have players running from co-e 1-v-1's, dragging 1-v-1s to friendlies and ack, no-one would ever fly alone, players would be reluctant to take on a set of a buffs, and etc.
And of course the game would die too.
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Moot, I agree with you for the most part I think.
I keep trying to compose this post, but it comes out as a ramble. I'll leave it like this:
Edit...I just can't keep this short. Ok, here's the bottom line.
To me, this game is one big hamster wheel. You run and run, but you don't get anywhere. At some point that's what I realized; and if you're not in it for the run itself, it is ultimately unfulfilling.
A CT based arena would have been an interesting experiment in my hypothesis.
Sorry, I just can't say it better than that and keep it short.
The fact that AvA is virtually empty while DA Lake has 20+ times more players at any given time really says plenty about what the average customer "wants".
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No argument there.. IMO CT was a vital development for gameplay in AH. I know what you mean with the run. I do think there's more to it with the AvA vs DA though.
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The fact that AvA is virtually empty while DA Lake has 20+ times more players at any given time really says plenty about what the average customer "wants".
Stop thinking so much, just enjoy the damned ride while it lasts :rock
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, players would be reluctant to take on a set of a buffs,
:rofl Bad part is, Shiv is probably correct when he says that. The silly penny hath been dropped in the stupid machine...
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Well of course the average K/D is less than 1, it is impossible to be greater than 1.
For every Kill there must be a death. but for ever death there does not need to be a kill (I.E crash into the ground like me), Hence # of deaths must be >= number of kills. So K/D must always be <= 1.
HiTech
If the average skill level increased then so would the k/d. yes there would still be the tree kills, but the skill level going up would have more players landing 5 kill runs more often. The trick is to lead the newer, less skilled players toward learning how to do combat, not just gaming the game.
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The trick is to lead the newer, less skilled players toward learning how to do combat, not just gaming the game.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. <---that holds true for games as much as anything, and "gamers" rarely change.
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If the average skill level increased then so would the k/d. yes there would still be the tree kills, but the skill level going up would have more players landing 5 kill runs more often. The trick is to lead the newer, less skilled players toward learning how to do combat, not just gaming the game.
Not true at all, the only thing that changes average K/D is if more people crash. Take as simple case of 2 people fighting.
after 20 fights one person one 19 times the other 1.
So we have a k/d of 19 and 1/19. Average would be 20/20 I.E. one.
Average K/D of all players can not be used as a method of measuring average skill of the arena.
One of the fundamentals of this game is for every kill, some one died.
HiTEch
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Not true at all, the only thing that changes average K/D is if more people crash. Take as simple case of 2 people fighting.
after 20 fights one person one 19 times the other 1.
So we have a k/d of 19 and 1/19. Average would be 20/20 I.E. one.
Average K/D of all players can not be used as a method of measuring average skill of the arena.
One of the fundamentals of this game is for every kill, some one died.
HiTEch
Your right, math doesn't work right after a couple of beers and a full bottle of Merlot :devil
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Your right, math doesn't work right after a couple of beers and a full bottle of Merlot :devil
Nice! You're feeling no pain after that. :D
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Your right, math doesn't work right after a couple of beers and a full bottle of Merlot :devil
Real men drink shiraz ; )
:rofl :aok
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I'm not sure how complaining helps the situation any, considering the forums only represent a small number of the community.
If the community decided what was poor gameplay and ostrasized those that peformed it, Hitech wouldn't need to alter the game at all. Instead of ripping each others throats out, we should have an open dialog, we need to realize that most of us are here for the same reason; the love of aviation and history.
Instead, too many log on and strut so much they should be screwing chickens.
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Instead, too many log on and strut so much they should be screwing chickens.
Too funny and a viewpoint I can sympathize with! :rofl
(http://www.katrinabrownelondon.com/USERIMAGES/born-to-love-chicken(1).jpg)
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Clutz: I have no idea if you know my credentials or not. A very brief list.
I Started playing online flight sims about 1990.
I published my first online flight sim in 1995.
I coined the term Massively multilayer online game ie MMOG in May 1995 at E3.
I Created my 2nd Online flight sim AH in 1999 and proceed to re take the market with it.
Now things have not really changed since the days I have first started playing online games, and are very much the same for almost all genera of games.
The is one very very simple fact. People will eventually get board with any game they play. 95% of the people leave quietly and find a new game or hobby to enjoy.
5% of the people are board like yourself and begin to blame the game for there boredom. The reality is they are just not having, the adventure and learning they used to enjoy is gone for them, and there really is not much that can be done to ever make them happy.
Then these 5% wish to state things like it cost much less to keep an existing customer than find a new one, in reality nothing could be farther from the truth. There is another flight sim company would tried to please there old time customers with many game play changes, in the end each change they made chased more and more of the normal cycle game players away. Started limited how much fun a new person had, and destroyed the game using the simple thought that they should listen to the whines of old time players who really are nothing more than burnt out on the game because they have been playing to long.
P.S. Today's patch should be out in an hour or so.
HiTech
Hmm I wrote a flight sim with 4 sides allread. Wonder why I changed to 3, maybe because I had found out it is better?
HiTech
I would like to put my two cents in as being both a grumpy old burnout longtime player who kinda moved on but resurfaces now and again.. :)
This game is special in the fact that its creators stay true to the realities of the gaming subscription cycle and also acquiesce to reasonable requests from their minority grumpy old player constituency.
If you make the effort they will meet you halfway. You must be specific in your requests for changes or things you would view as improvements.
during my long stint as a hardcore AH player I was always in the art departments hair for precision accuracy of 3d models and texturemaps. I am sure natedog and superfly would have loved to strangle me many times as i picked apart their creations with a magnifying glass.
In fact I was occasionally banned from the BBS for my nit picking ranting and raving :D
long story short... I had the privledge of making a few terrains for AH, got to help on the B17G 3d model by providing 2d profile drawings I customized and calibrated for higher accuracy and fidelity for natedog's excellent 3d model. Got to make the default skin for it too. Turns out all the publicly available b17 profile drawings had glaring innacuracies LOL. AH2 currently has the only accurately modeled b17G because all other games use the innacurate plans :) Even got to make the default texture maps for a few other of AH2's aircraft (B25,P39) and some alternate skins for others.
And my wife is quite tired of hearing me proudly remind her every time the AH2 commercial is on and I point out every plane in it that I skinned and the B17G at the end. :)
but enough of me bragging. My point is if you make the effort so will they if your interests have merit.
But regardless the law of diminishing returns will always take effect when you find new hobbies which entertain you for a time... and then you rediscover your old past time when the itch to dogfight hits you.
and when you take a peak back into that crazy little imaginary world you left behind you see it has improved just fine in your absence without your meddling. :)
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I would like to put my two cents in as being both a grumpy old burnout longtime player who kinda moved on but resurfaces now and again.. :)
This game is special in the fact that its creators stay true to the realities of the gaming subscription cycle and also acquiesce to reasonable requests from their minority grumpy old player constituency.
If you make the effort they will meet you halfway. You must be specific in your requests for changes or things you would view as improvements.
during my long stint as a hardcore AH player I was always in the art departments hair for precision accuracy of 3d models and texturemaps. I am sure natedog and superfly would have loved to strangle me many times as i picked apart their creations with a magnifying glass.
In fact I was occasionally banned from the BBS for my nit picking ranting and raving :D
long story short... I had the privledge of making a few terrains for AH, got to help on the B17G 3d model by providing 2d profile drawings I customized and calibrated for higher accuracy and fidelity for natedog's excellent 3d model. Got to make the default skin for it too. Turns out all the publicly available b17 profile drawings had glaring innacuracies LOL. AH2 currently has the only accurately modeled b17G because all other games use the innacurate plans :) Even got to make the default texture maps for a few other of AH2's aircraft (B25,P39) and some alternate skins for others.
And my wife is quite tired of hearing me proudly remind her every time the AH2 commercial is on and I point out every plane in it that I skinned and the B17G at the end. :)
but enough of me bragging. My point is if you make the effort so will they if your interests have merit.
But regardless the law of diminishing returns will always take effect when you find new hobbies which entertain you for a time... and then you rediscover your old past time when the itch to dogfight hits you.
and when you take a peak back into that crazy little imaginary world you left behind you see it has improved just fine in your absence without your meddling. :)
This sounds like a post many should read. Well put, Scott. :aok
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after 20 fights one person one 19 times the other 1.
So we have a k/d of 19 and 1/19. Average would be 20/20 I.E. one.
k=d, but the average of the two is (19+1/19)/2=9.53.
Or is my commie math all wrong ?
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x/1 grows faster than 1/x shrinks...
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To get average k/d:
Total kills / # of players
Over
total deaths / # of players
So...
20/2=10
20/2=10
Average k/d is therefore 1/1.
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Is that what it's calculated as, in each player's score?
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Don't forget that there isn't necessarily a kill for every death, so overall k/d will always be less than 1. I for one auger by attempting silly things plenty of times. :D
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Don't forget that there isn't necessarily a kill for every death, so overall k/d will always be less than 1. I for one auger by attempting silly things plenty of times. :D
Naturally, I was just applying the formula to the 19/1 1/19 example. IIRC, average k/d for fighters most tours is about .98.
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Is k/d divided this way in individual player scores?
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Is that what it's calculated as, in each player's score?
I'm pretty sure individual k/d in scores is k/(d+1) to prevent dividing by zero.
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Why would you use a /total.players.# KDaverage instead of averaging each player's raw KD? What good is an overall KD that always floats around 1 and measures how many or few own-pilot deaths (auger, etc) there are, instead of actual k/d performance?
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Why would you use a /total.players.# KDaverage instead of averaging each player's raw KD? What good is an overall KD that always floats around 1 and measures how many or few own-pilot deaths (auger, etc) there are, instead of actual k/d performance?
I'm not trying to prove anything. That average K/D hovers around 1 is a definition, not something we discover.
The only reason I even bothered to state the definition is because of this confused post:
k=d, but the average of the two is (19+1/19)/2=9.53.
Or is my commie math all wrong ?
What good is it? Well, that depends on what you want to do. The unequal distribution of K/D ratios across the player base is far more interesting.
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Edit: we have to be careful averaging "raw" K/D. For example, A has 20 kills and 10 deaths. His raw K/D is 2. B has 10 kills and 20 deaths. His raw K/D is .5. Now, 2 + .5 = 2.5. Divide by the number of pilots, A+B, 2.5/2 and you get 1.25, which is wrong.
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Well, that depends on what you want to do. The unequal distribution of K/D ratios across the player base is far more interesting.
Yeah, the sort of figures Lusche put out are pretty much what I was getting at.
Honestly, I see more people turning in for HO passes, or augering on dive bombing runs, or surviving a dive bombing run, THEN needlessly turning around and flying back through the meat grinder attempting to vulch/de-ack than I do needlessly running. That is also what I was getting at.
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The unequal distribution of K/D ratios across the player base is far more interesting.
Apples and oranges.. Of the two KD averages, the raw average is more informative.
[...]and you get 1.25, which is wrong.
It's not wrong if you're looking for the average score k/d.
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will you guys stop with all the math givin me a damn headache :furious
oh ya btw HTC has no control over the 10 cons trying to kill ya, ya big dummy... :rolleyes:
whelly ith not a tumar...
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Moot, are you feeling a little contentious today? ;)
Anyway, you can average those numbers that way if you like, but we just have to use different terminology so that we don't conflate average K/D with an averaging of the K/D score.
Edit: If you go back and read hitech's original post that was quoted above, it's pretty obvious that we arguing over nothing. Here's the full quote:
Not true at all, the only thing that changes average K/D is if more people crash. Take as simple case of 2 people fighting.
after 20 fights one person one 19 times the other 1.
So we have a k/d of 19 and 1/19. Average would be 20/20 I.E. one.
Average K/D of all players can not be used as a method of measuring average skill of the arena.
One of the fundamentals of this game is for every kill, some one died.
HiTEch
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Edit again:
Apples and oranges.. Of the two KD averages, the raw average is more informative.
I was sharing your sentiment. Sometimes you seem to interpret English the opposite of how I do. ;)
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So what if no one looses their life by going balls out in every situation and we should all have no fear because you say so Moot. Who made you god to judge in this game short of your personal EGO need to denigrate players or people in general for not living up to your fantasies of game ideology? Your statement is an old canard which sets whole groups of PAYING CUSTOMERS in a group class below your self anointment to GOD of Aces High2 morality. How they play the game is THEIR expression of $14.95 a month. You have now relegated their hard earned money to be worth less than yours. Has HiTech ever publicly, privatly, or other wise given you the right as a HTC spoksman to denegrate paying customers for their game play choices?
Do you ever see HiTech denigrate whole groups of paying customers the way you freely do on this BBS, especialy now that you are a member of the Aces High Traning Group? I've always had the impressing the HTC Trainers were chosen for having their EGO's under control.
These discussons seem to devolve into the complainers and game play officiondos wanting only those who are worthy of thier ideals playing the game or suffering red badges of cowerdness and scorn. What a nose bleed blue blooded special place they want Aces High to be. And I bet Moot has never taken HiTech aside and spoken in a heart to heart manner about how the game is being ruined by all the panty waste cowards and riff raff............
What have you contributed to make the game better as well as the community? That effort or lack there of makes the biggest difference on the part of the player base.
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Moot, are you feeling a little contentious today? ;)
No.. But I am feeling that arguing things both thoroughly and transparently is "a big no-no" in north american conversation etiquette. Kinda nuts when ... that's the point of conversation.
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Throwing out an ad hominem is hardly the way to get someone to want to have a discussion with you, but I don't know, maybe that's the way you continentals like to get things going... :devil
Anyway, the point is that there's really no debate here. "Average K/D" has one meaning (the one hitech explains), and what we both agree is more interesting/informative, namely the average K/D score, has a different meaning: different meaning, different term. Otherwise "Average K/D" would be ambiguous. This is just a discussion of definitions, and definitions have a tendency to be uninteresting.
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What ad hom?
"Average K/D" has one meaning (the one hitech explains), and what we both agree is more interesting/informative, namely the average K/D score, has a different meaning: different meaning, different term. Otherwise "Average K/D" would be ambiguous.
It is ambiguous enough that a player will say avg KD and most likely be referring to average score KD.
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The counterpart is underlined.
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I don't get it.
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The Ad Hom would be the part where you try to discredit the posters argument by insinuating that North Americans arent thorough or transparent......
somewhere along the line you must have been tragically and incorrectly led to believe that the person who speaks the loudest or the most must be the smartest person in the room....... sad
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What?? That wasn't what I was saying. Anytime you run thru an argument especially concisely, it's taken as a sign of having an axe to grind, or something like that. I think the term is PC, but you know what. Forget it. Somewhere along the line anyone will find fault with pretty much anything you say, so I'm just gonna let you guys have at that on your own.
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What have you contributed to make the game better as well as the community? That effort or lack there of makes the biggest difference on the part of the player base.
Nothing. The majority of the "Anti-HTC crowd" posting in this thread are the same. "Take, Take, Take, but they don't Give." They're selfish little brats.
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I've been wanting to comment in this thread as a new guy.
Yep there are a lot of really ggod experienced Sticks out there which tends to lead to new guys getting clobbered for a long time. So this game has (at least) two dimensions:
1) Learning to fly your plane, shoot, and evaluate situational awareness
2) Developing the ability to change the situation by coordinating with other pilots.
It's number two that makes this game so unique. Changing the game structure would ruin that part, and that part is fantastic. Give it and yourself some time to get there.
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I read BnZ as meaning average k/d is very low, pointing to most players dying much more than killing. His suggestion, then, that that's from flying "unsafely" rather than "safely".
More like flying poorly.
If I was trying to be safe all the time I'd fly MSFS.
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More like flying poorly.
If I was trying to be safe all the time I'd fly MSFS.
Yep. Take "chavalo" last night. In Orange he came into A1 at almost 20k. Dove from me (alone) and dove on the field. Ran what had to be close to 1/2 a sector. Grabbed alt, ran again, dove on the field and I finally got the kill on him. I mean really, you end up turnfighting OTD in a Pony D after spending the last 15-20 minutes running? Understand, he vulched no one and dropped no strat, dar, etc. :confused:
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I'm just a soso stick but in the past when I have seen someone like that and offered to help.... 90% of the time they start squalking like they are mad. The old "I pay my 15 bucks" routine or some other hogwash.
I find it strange that some play a game that they have no interest in getting decent at. Hitting the golfball in the trees all the time, striking out, etc. In just a few minutes some could learn a couple of great basic moves in which to build on.
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I find it strange that some play a game that they have no interest in getting decent at.
Me, too.
- oldman
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Oh I think they want to get good, but on their terms. I see this, a lot, from "gamers". Games are very structured in the 'gaming' world, even the on-line crowds of XBOX and Play station. That's because the situations are 'structured' to be 4 on 4 matches, 12 v12 or other fixed count, fixed situation, fixed everything. They learned to excel within a fixed frame work that removes variables like being out numbered or out gunned. Only individual skill matters and that's what 'Gamers' focus on...THEIR individual skill.
The cool thing about the MMOs is that one must learn to adapt to factors such as being outnumbered, outgunned, and out ENY-ed.
I don't think this is a problem with the game, that needs to be fixed. It just means this game is not for everyone. Or that those seeking to demonstrate their skill level through ever increasing success, in successive missions, need to adjust their expectations to how well they did under the circumstances. OR get on the radio and change the circumstances. ;)
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Oh I think they want to get good, but on their terms. I see this, a lot, from "gamers". Games are very structured in the 'gaming' world, even the on-line crowds of XBOX and Play station. That's because the situations are 'structured' to be 4 on 4 matches, 12 v12 or other fixed count, fixed situation, fixed everything. They learned to excel within a fixed frame work that removes variables like being out numbered or out gunned. Only individual skill matters and that's what 'Gamers' focus on...THEIR individual skill.
The cool thing about the MMOs is that one must learn to adapt to factors such as being outnumbered, outgunned, and out ENY-ed.
I don't think this is a problem with the game, that needs to be fixed. It just means this game is not for everyone. Or that those seeking to demonstrate their skill level through ever increasing success, in successive missions, need to adjust their expectations to how well they did under the circumstances. OR get on the radio and change the circumstances. ;)
No, some really have no intentions of getting "good".
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No, some really have no intentions of getting "good".
Agreed ;)
I was trying to address the guy that started the thread who was going to quit or something because he found the playing conditions in the MA were, too often, not to his liking.
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He should come fly with me. 38s seem to be the first one folks go for..... he'll be safe till I die. :aok
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He should come fly with me. 38s seem to be the first one folks go for..... he'll be safe till I die. :aok
:salute Shuffler. You or Lazer or Delerium. Lazer killed 5 times the other day on the SAME mission. Later I saw he landed 12 victories...all in a 38J.
There is something about the vertical performance of 38 that defies physics. I need to fly one a figure it out, because if I chase another 38 vertical and watch him hang on his prop for 30 seconds until the Hindenburg would stall and fall off, I'm going to lose my mind. :)
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:salute Shuffler. You or Lazer or Delerium. Lazer killed 5 times the other day on the SAME mission. Later I saw he landed 12 victories...all in a 38J.
There is something about the vertical performance of 38 that defies physics. I need to fly one a figure it out, because if I chase another 38 vertical and watch him hang on his prop for 30 seconds until the Hindenburg would stall and fall off, I'm going to lose my mind. :)
:lol
Rememeber..... if you jump in a 38 they will come.
:salute
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He should come fly with me. 38s seem to be the first one folks go for.....
Darn right. If given a choice, I'll target the 38's, Corsairs, and 109K4's before any other plane in the set.
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Darn right. If given a choice, I'll target the 38's, Corsairs, and 109K4's before any other plane in the set.
You big bully! :devil
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:lol