Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: trigger2 on September 06, 2009, 11:22:29 AM
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Hey all!
I'm looking at buying a plane (probably in 2 or so years, friend of mine and I agreed to split the cost/ownership of the bird). Recently at the Oregon International Airshow, Twin Oaks airpark had a display there where they were selling Piper Super Cub (sport) kits.:x For the kit, with a delux VFR panel, 2 seater, it'd run us around $130,000. I'm looking for anyone with experiance in sport aircraft, and if anyone has experiance in the Super Cub, I'd love to hear it, good or bad. ;)
Here's a pic of what the plane would look similar to.
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq73/TheKinSlayer_1993/cub.jpg)
Thanks!
~Trigger2
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The first consideration you need to do is contact as many aircraft insurers as you can and ask about insurance. The Cub is a great plane but it has conventional gear which makes most insurers just say no, especially with low or NO tail wheel time pilots. If you can't insure it you darn sure won't be doing much flying unless you have money by the tub full to burn.
Frankly there are plenty of used aircraft out there that are far more affordable than buying a new one like that. That includes other Cubs, Super Cubs and the Maules.
Another consideration if you are set on a rag wing is a hanger. Unless you like re covering the bird every few years due to sun exposure the hanger will be cheaper.
If you both are low time pilots get a trike gear bird and build some hours. Get a history with your insurer then you might find it easier to transition to a conventional geared bird.
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2 things.
1. Get your partnership agreement in writing and have a lawyer familiar with aviation contracts look at it. You need to outline who is responsible for what, who makes decisions (what if you want an engine overhaul and he doesn't?), how costs are allocated, and what happens if one of you wants to sell the plane and the other one doesn't.
2. Make SURE that the plane will meet both of your needs.
Here's the scenario - you guys buy a used plane, and it turns out that the engine starts fouling one plug. You check into it and determine that the engine could use an overhaul but it's not absolutely required. One of you guys wants to fix it, the other doesn't want to pay for half of an overhaul he doesn't think is necessary. You guys end up selling the plane at a loss since the engine needs an overhaul. Who gets stuck for the loss?
Or, you buy a 2-seat plane and one person gets married and has a kid (or comes up with another reason to need 3-4 seats) so he decides that the plane is unsuitable and a total waste of money. He wants to sell, but the market is down so the plane will be sold at a loss. Again, who takes the loss, since one partner still wants to keep the plane?
If I was going to get a "sensible" plane, I'd probably try to find a cessna 172 with a low-time engine and basic IFR panel. That's about as sensible as it gets and they're relatively inexpensive to operate, all things considered. And you can get as weird with accessories as you want, with speed kits, multiple engine options, extra gas or cargo, avionics, etc. And the price range for used 172s is very wide depending on what you are getting.
Get it in writing first.
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2 things.
1. Get your partnership agreement in writing and have a lawyer familiar with aviation contracts look at it. You need to outline who is responsible for what, who makes decisions (what if you want an engine overhaul and he doesn't?), how costs are allocated, and what happens if one of you wants to sell the plane and the other one doesn't.
2. Make SURE that the plane will meet both of your needs.
Here's the scenario - you guys buy a used plane, and it turns out that the engine starts fouling one plug. You check into it and determine that the engine could use an overhaul but it's not absolutely required. One of you guys wants to fix it, the other doesn't want to pay for half of an overhaul he doesn't think is necessary. You guys end up selling the plane at a loss since the engine needs an overhaul. Who gets stuck for the loss?
Or, you buy a 2-seat plane and one person gets married and has a kid (or comes up with another reason to need 3-4 seats) so he decides that the plane is unsuitable and a total waste of money. He wants to sell, but the market is down so the plane will be sold at a loss. Again, who takes the loss, since one partner still wants to keep the plane?
If I was going to get a "sensible" plane, I'd probably try to find a cessna 172 with a low-time engine and basic IFR panel. That's about as sensible as it gets and they're relatively inexpensive to operate, all things considered. And you can get as weird with accessories as you want, with speed kits, multiple engine options, extra gas or cargo, avionics, etc. And the price range for used 172s is very wide depending on what you are getting.
Get it in writing first.
Excellent advice right here.
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Mission, Mission, Mission.
I've been an owner since 2006. A cub is great for dicking around low or landing on riverbanks if that is your thing - but as others indicated - a few things:
1. MONEY. Are both you and your partner financially able to afford it?
2. Depreciation: Hate to break it - but $120,000 depreciates 20% in the first year. Find a used bird where it has a good MX history and someone already ate the depreciation.
3. MISSION - what is your gameplan? Do you plan to be bumping around the mountains in and out of 2000 ft strips with no STOL or Turbo?
4. Join an owners group - see what their typical threads are on MX, operations and headaches. Not everyone will post, but you'll notice things that are nuisances in type clubs (i.e. worn turbo brackets, corrosion areas, etc)
5. A partnership is a marriage (yes, no toejam). Have an LLC or some type of seperate entity created where the aircraft will reside so your assets will not be at risk incase of an accident and lawsuit. This won't necessarly prevent you from being sued for some roadkill claim, but if you have your liability limits set high enough, it won't matter. Have a clear exit strategy from the partnership if your mission requirements diverge from your partners. *i.e. if A wants out, you sell at loss and divide the difference, or he buys you out at X - the prorata engine hour.
6. Calculate the per hour reserve. Its not just gas and oil. I'll give you an idea of how mine looks on a per hour basis.
Cirrus SR-20
Assumptions:
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Fuel burn @ cruise 9.5
Fuel cost $3.50
Oil burn @ cruise 0.08
Oil cost $7.65
Filter cost $20.00
Annual inspection $3,000.00
Static sys./xpdr checks $500.00
Oil change $350.00
Engine life 2000
Engine OH cost $37,000.00
Prop life 2400
Prop OH cost $2,000.00
Registration, state $400.00
Insurance $1,660.00
Hangar/tiedown $100.00
Preventive Maintenance $4,000.00
Paint $12,000.00
Interior $8,000.00
Tire cost *3 $360.00
Tire life 800
Turbo life 1000000
Turbo OH cost $0.01
Top-end life 2000
Top-end OH cost $0.01
Sparkplug life 500
Sparkplug cost $258.24
Vacuum pump life 100000
Vacuum pump cost $0.00
Direct = $75.08 /hr.
Indirect = $8,176.67 /yr.
And, the total annual cost for flying is $25,445 /yr based on 20 hours per month
And the DOC broken down as performance numbers for my aircraft:
Cirrus SR-20
(OperateLOP)
Engine HP, max. 200
Fuel, usable 52
Fuel consumption @ 75% 10
0.39
Endurance 75% - no reserve 5.2
Speed @ 75% 140
Distance, max. 728.0
Cruise Performance
Power, cruise 70%
Speed, cruise 137
Fuel consumption, cruise 9.3
Endurance, cruise 5.6
Distance, cruise 762.3
Fuel economy 14.7
Trip distance 1200
Trip time 8.8
Trip cost $970.29
Passengers + crew 4
Aircraft operating cost $110.63
$0.81
Trip cost/person $242.57
Gross weight 3000
Basic empty wgt 2083
Useful load 940
Fuel, max. 52
Payload 628
Number of partners 1
---------
These are big numbers. If you aren't mentally prepared for big numbers don't do it.
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Not to mention the restrictions placed on the LSA catagory of aircraft. A 172 or Piper Archer (or other) with basic IFR would definately be the way to go (as long as you both have no issues with the medical cert.).
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Very decent of you owners to share the detailed information so easy for prospective owners to overlook. :aok
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2 things.
1. Get your partnership agreement in writing and have a lawyer familiar with aviation contracts look at it. You need to outline who is responsible for what, who makes decisions (what if you want an engine overhaul and he doesn't?), how costs are allocated, and what happens if one of you wants to sell the plane and the other one doesn't.
2. Make SURE that the plane will meet both of your needs.
Here's the scenario - you guys buy a used plane, and it turns out that the engine starts fouling one plug. You check into it and determine that the engine could use an overhaul but it's not absolutely required. One of you guys wants to fix it, the other doesn't want to pay for half of an overhaul he doesn't think is necessary. You guys end up selling the plane at a loss since the engine needs an overhaul. Who gets stuck for the loss?
Or, you buy a 2-seat plane and one person gets married and has a kid (or comes up with another reason to need 3-4 seats) so he decides that the plane is unsuitable and a total waste of money. He wants to sell, but the market is down so the plane will be sold at a loss. Again, who takes the loss, since one partner still wants to keep the plane?
If I was going to get a "sensible" plane, I'd probably try to find a cessna 172 with a low-time engine and basic IFR panel. That's about as sensible as it gets and they're relatively inexpensive to operate, all things considered. And you can get as weird with accessories as you want, with speed kits, multiple engine options, extra gas or cargo, avionics, etc. And the price range for used 172s is very wide depending on what you are getting.
Get it in writing first.
best reply so far.
:aok
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(engage Jedi mind trick)
You want to learn gliders:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gliding
Check out Nimbus 4-DLM for instance:
http://www.schempp-hirth.com/index.php?id=nimbus-4dm0&L=1
or DG 1000S (The Challenger) or the self-launching DG 1001M. :aok
http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/dg1000-herausforderer-e.html
(/Jedi mind trick)
There is no substitute for wingspan. :D
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I know a couple of guys who have motorgliders... An instructor here who flew F-15Cs loves to fly his Dad's motorglider.
Me, I want a bit more maneuverability so if I was going to get a plane, I'd probably end up with an RV kitplane. There is even a docile 4-seat RV for those who want a good aluminum airplane and don't plan on turning it upside down.
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Maneuverability? Ha! All I need is my DG a lot of sun a little wind and I will stay airborne sailing all day... True Soaring aircraft are fully aerobatic and the more complex they are the more understanding of flight you may achieve. :aok
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Thanks for all of your replies, and it has DEFFINITLY made me think about a bit more. Still love the bird. It'd just be a plane used for fun, going out just to fly around, and every now and then get from point a to point b (maybe a fly in airshow here and there. ;)).
Again, a BIG thanks to everyone that shared their opinions!
~Trigger2
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While a partnership may seem a good way to go - all the reasons previously stated by others do apply. If it were me, I'd go it alone - plenty of used a/c out there for much less than 100K.
I had an rudder pedal Ercoupe 415cd for a few years - cost me less than 5k. Enjoyed it very much and put about 500 hrs. on before I sold it. But, I wasnt looking for an IFR a/c - just something to get me in the air - it did that and had a ball with it.
Over time I met some wonderful people - I won't name names cause you probably wouldn't believe me anyway - some true aviation pioneers. I was based at 1B2. Wound up managing that field for 4 years and went on to be manager of KMVY. Retired in 1999 with a wealth of good times and memories.
Enjoy the experience and keep the shiny side up - best wishes to you :aok
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I think the best "bang for the buck" is to build a 2 seater Van's RV- 6,7,8
Plus since it is "experimental" you can do all your own maintenance and inspections, saving big $ not having to hire an A&P
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if you could give up the super part of the cub, you might like this: http://www.legend.aero/content.asp
these are brand new cubs. last time i saw a price on them there were in the 50-70K price range.
this is what i would like to have if i wanted a sport aircraft.
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I know a couple of guys who have motorgliders... An instructor here who flew F-15Cs loves to fly his Dad's motorglider.
Me, I want a bit more maneuverability so if I was going to get a plane, I'd probably end up with an RV kitplane. There is even a docile 4-seat RV for those who want a good aluminum airplane and don't plan on turning it upside down.
wasn't the diamond da-20 originally a motor-glider?
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I think the best "bang for the buck" is to build a 2 seater Van's RV- 6,7,8
Plus since it is "experimental" you can do all your own maintenance and inspections, saving big $ not having to hire an A&P
Maybe HiTech could be so kind as to reply with some of his experiences in his RV-8?
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He has in the past. It's expensive.
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wasn't the diamond da-20 originally a motor-glider?
I dunno. Never flew one.
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There is a wealth of knowledge out there and many free rides to be had... :aok
S.S.A. (Soaring Society of America)
http://www.ssa.org/
Glider Insurance (and tow planes)
http://www.gliderinsurance.com/GliderHome.htm
and one of my favorite planes to see the Genesis 2. The GE2 is a cheap homebuilt and I have seen kits for (re)sale less than $10k.
(http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq197/Chalenge08/815.jpg)
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I used to think aircraft were expensive to operate and maintain.....that was til I spent the equivalent of $30,000 an hour to run my dragster this year.
:cry
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OK ..
.."just gonna fly for fun .. point A to point B now an then."
Rent what you want when you want it.
Just my 2 copper.
-GE aka Frank
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I dunno. Never flew one.
it's a pretty cool little airplane. i think it has the contenintal 105 horse engine in it now.....but have been told it originally had a rotax engine.
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OK ..
.."just gonna fly for fun .. point A to point B now an then."
Rent what you want when you want it.
Just my 2 copper.
-GE aka Frank
the only problem with renting......
i blocked out the clubs cessna for a trip to ocean city. the only time it was available was a 4 hour window. i booked it 3 weeks in advance. i had to have it back by 5pm on that sunday....and ocean city is a 40 minute flight....then an hour walk to the boardwalk.........owning my own, there wouldn't have been those constraints.
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Sheesh CAP .. guess it all depends on who yer dealin with. Apple Valley Airport out in the High Desert, I'd call 'em the day before and have a 172 whenever I wanted it, with or without instructor depending on what I wanted to do.
Never was part of a 'club' .. -shrug- .. just called the guys I was learnin to fly with :)
-GE aka Frank
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My favorite fun fly events are rabbit chases with a 172 as rabbit. The guy establishes a flight from point A to B. The gliders will tow up or winch up and fly the same course for best time. Last one in (and someone ALWAYS lands out) buys the beer. Rabbit chases are usually less than 100 miles but club events can be much longer (requiring multiple launches).
And did I mention winch launches are similar to flying off the deck of a CV? Three thousand feet in forty-five seconds! Great stuff even when things dont quite go right. In this video the winch line breaks and the pilot executes a perfect procedure for landing. Check out how quiet gliders are! NOT! :aok
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8FP_MIB7gw&feature=related
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Sheesh CAP .. guess it all depends on who yer dealin with. Apple Valley Airport out in the High Desert, I'd call 'em the day before and have a 172 whenever I wanted it, with or without instructor depending on what I wanted to do.
Never was part of a 'club' .. -shrug- .. just called the guys I was learnin to fly with :)
-GE aka Frank
well...in all honesty.....that arose because they only have 2 cessnas left. when i first joined the club, they had 4 172's, a 152(all of which i was checked out in), 6 warriors, and a couple twins. they've cut down to 1 172, and the 152, but still have all the pipers.
i won't transition to the pipers for now, as a lot of the ntsb reports i read are low time pilota that transitioned to pipers.....and i only have 207 hours. i know it seems kinda silly and anal, but it's my way of not becoming an ntsb report. besides....i honestly like the way cessnas fly.
i willl someday own my own airplane....that's why i bought this shop. i didn't buy it to get rich. i bought it so i could have stuff i want. my own airplane if the first thing on that list. :D
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You're intimidated by a Piper? What about all the tens of thousands of pilots who did their first solo in Cherokees and somehow survived to tell their tale?
An extremely thorough checkout will take 2 hours and by the end of it you'll be looking for things to do.
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You're intimidated by a Piper? What about all the tens of thousands of pilots who did their first solo in Cherokees and somehow survived to tell their tale?
An extremely thorough checkout will take 2 hours and by the end of it you'll be looking for things to do.
nonononono/.......not intimidated by it. i feel i'm better off not transitioning to a different aircraft till i've built more hours.
right now, i'm in that 150 to 500 hour range that i read/hear so much about.
i've flown my cfi's cherokee from the right seat, and kinda liked it..........and will check out in them when i feel more current/confident. for now.......i just do this as i know i'll not become an ntsb report through any possible mistake of my own. :aok
chances are that had i originally flown a piper, i'd probably be saying the same thingt.
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All pilots regardless of hours are perfectly capable of balling up an airplane. If you think sticking with one type is going to prevent that I'd have to disagree. Exposing yourself to different airplanes, and a Cherokee isn't all that different, is a great way to build knowledge and experience. Before you know it you'll want to fly a 182, Saratoga, Luscombe, Pitts and a glider. Actually if I had to pick a perfect set of airplanes for someone to get a couple hundred hours in those would be them.
All the Cherokee will teach you is how to be on-speed as you come over the numbers or you'll float. Not nearly as much as a extra knots in Mooney or a Cirrus will but you'll still float. Aside from getting into the airplane I think the most significant difference between the 172 and the Cherokee is where you put the key.
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it's a pretty cool little airplane. i think it has the contenintal 105 horse engine in it now.....but have been told it originally had a rotax engine.
The DA-20 C1 has a Continental IO 240 (125 hp) fuel injected engine. The A1 had a Rotax which I believe was 100hp.
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I received! a little over 20 intructed hours in a Cherokee around 1975 (never got my ticket) I loved it! It did seem to float and get mushy at touch down, but it didn't bother me. I didn't know any better, flared when I thought I should and held the yoke to my chest untill it touched down.
Maybe some day I'll get my ticket. In the meantime, every few years, I get a wild hair and take one of those $60.00 check rides.
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My favorite fun fly events are rabbit chases with a 172 as rabbit. The guy establishes a flight from point A to B. The gliders will tow up or winch up and fly the same course for best time. Last one in (and someone ALWAYS lands out) buys the beer. Rabbit chases are usually less than 100 miles but club events can be much longer (requiring multiple launches).
And did I mention winch launches are similar to flying off the deck of a CV? Three thousand feet in forty-five seconds! Great stuff even when things dont quite go right. In this video the winch line breaks and the pilot executes a perfect procedure for landing. Check out how quiet gliders are! NOT! :aok
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8FP_MIB7gw&feature=related
Never been in a glider, but I have years of experience with RC gliders, and love them! The power planes are fun, and they're all I have currently, but the gliders are my favorites! Ridge soaring in Montana, and thermal soaring here in Wisconsin...
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Never been in a glider, but I have years of experience with RC gliders, and love them! The power planes are fun, and they're all I have currently, but the gliders are my favorites! Ridge soaring in Montana, and thermal soaring here in Wisconsin...
Ridge soaring is an art in its own right. Here in the south we dont have much in the way of hills so its thermals and waves that we experience. The grandest for me is wave lift but if you like ridge lift... the ASH 25 EB-28 (the plane I wish I could find here) makes a great glider for any style.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVsX3CgMoIA
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Just an alternative, here is what I have:
Urban Air Samba XXL:
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Flying/22-08-2009/IMG_0293.jpg)
Price tag was about $130,000 new but we got taken a bit, as they do go cheaper brand new.
Depending on how retarded the clerk is during the registration process (I say that in jest!) it can be either a Light Sport, or like ours, a Glider. (Yes, the FAA considers it a type-rated glider!).
As far as figures go, cruising speed is about 120kts, Vne is 140kts, Vfe is 60kts and Vso is PUBLISHED at 25kts, labeled on the airspeed indicator at 40kts, but in all of my experience closer to 15kts in actuality. Engine is a 100hp (I believe, may be 90) Rotax 4 cylinder. Fuel tanks hold 26 gallons and burn 4.5 gallons an hour at 4800rpms (Approximately 120kts in speed). Comes equiped with the usual airspeed indicator, altimeter, Magnetic Variometer, Turn Coordinator, single radio with intercom, electronic flaps and trim, and a ballistic parachute.
From a pilot's perspective, she is a dream to take off (I've never measured, but I would swear she takes off in less than 75feet from a dead stop) and a dream to fly. Incredibly responsive, swift, and an over-powered little crotch-rocket. However, she is the nastiest plane I have ever tried to land, and usually takes people 30-40 hours in the airframe before they feel comfortable landing it. Why is it so hard to land? It floats for frakking ever! You learn to flare before you even cross the threshold and by the time ground effect stops carrying you, you're 100ft down the runway. (Exaggerated, but you get the gist)
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Depending on how retarded the clerk is during the registration process (I say that in jest!) it can be either a Light Sport, or like ours, a Glider. (Yes, the FAA considers it a type-rated glider!).
I seriously doubt that this is really registered glider, maybe you are thinking 'motor glider'? Also I believe it can be registered as a motor glider and still qualify under the rules of a Light Sport Aircraft (LSA). That is the new classification by the FAA to allow 'sport pilots' fly light 2 seat aircraft with less training than a private pilot. The way I understand it many existing aircraft do not need to be re-registered to be flown as an LSA by a sport pilot as long as they meet the other requirements. However new aircraft flown as LSA must be registared as either S-LSA (factory built) or E-LSA ('kit' built or restricted to 49% factory built). This is where registration and classifications get confusing, but what else would you expect from the FAA.
As far as buying something, as others have said it can be very expensive.
The cheapest way is to find an E-LSA (Experimental kit built Light Sport Aircraft) on the used market. The reason being is you can take a 16 hour course and do all of the maintenance and inspections yourself, saving a huge amount of money.
For about $25,000 plus about $20 per hour fixed operating costs, you can own and fly something like this Avid 4. This one also has quick folding wings and can be loaded onto a trailer in a few minutes, meaning you can bring it home and put it in the garage or carport and save on hanger fees.
(http://68.103.57.217:6704/AvidWeb/slides/CIMG0853.JPG)
If you want to go the certified route, you will be paying for maintenance and inspections. Also ever few thousand hours you will need to have your certified engine rebuilt, which can cost almost as much as a new engine. For example, to compare this to the $25,000 Avid above, you could buy a Cessna 152 in the $25,000 range, and your hourly operating costs would be roughly $50/hour, over double! That includes putting aside some money every hour to pay for an engine rebuild every 2000 hours (about $15,000).
The upside to buying a certified plane like this is as long as you maintain it, its very unlikely to loose much value. Of course if you want to start talking about spending more money, the options are limitless. However just keep in mind that operating costs will be the major factor in the long run. Fixed operating costs on something simple like a nice late model 172 could be approaching $100 an hour!
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Are Avid kits still in production? I tried some googling and found a few builder websites but nothing on the availability of kits.
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He has in the past. It's expensive.
yaknow what?
your posts are almost always informative, and logical.
i'm going to take your advice i think. going to go up with my cfi and check out in the warriors.
as long as i follow the checklists, i should be good to go. :aok
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yaknow what?
your posts are almost always informative, and logical.
i'm going to take your advice i think. going to go up with my cfi and check out in the warriors.
as long as i follow the checklists, i should be good to go. :aok
Enjoy it! You'll learn, you'll broaden and you'll gain experience. Next time you'll want it to be a Mooney or a Cirrus. Then you'll want to go upside down. Then you'll...wish you could afford to own your own airplane instead of flying someone elses :lol
My airplane won't have $50,000 windshield halves though. :O
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"If it flies, floats or (four letter word for fornicating)s, rent it."
-A much older, and wiser man.
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Just an alternative, here is what I have:
Urban Air Samba XXL:
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Flying/22-08-2009/IMG_0293.jpg)
Price tag was about $130,000 new but we got taken a bit, as they do go cheaper brand new.
Depending on how retarded the clerk is during the registration process (I say that in jest!) it can be either a Light Sport, or like ours, a Glider. (Yes, the FAA considers it a type-rated glider!).
As far as figures go, cruising speed is about 120kts, Vne is 140kts, Vfe is 60kts and Vso is PUBLISHED at 25kts, labeled on the airspeed indicator at 40kts, but in all of my experience closer to 15kts in actuality. Engine is a 100hp (I believe, may be 90) Rotax 4 cylinder. Fuel tanks hold 26 gallons and burn 4.5 gallons an hour at 4800rpms (Approximately 120kts in speed). Comes equiped with the usual airspeed indicator, altimeter, Magnetic Variometer, Turn Coordinator, single radio with intercom, electronic flaps and trim, and a ballistic parachute.
From a pilot's perspective, she is a dream to take off (I've never measured, but I would swear she takes off in less than 75feet from a dead stop) and a dream to fly. Incredibly responsive, swift, and an over-powered little crotch-rocket. However, she is the nastiest plane I have ever tried to land, and usually takes people 30-40 hours in the airframe before they feel comfortable landing it. Why is it so hard to land? It floats for frakking ever! You learn to flare before you even cross the threshold and by the time ground effect stops carrying you, you're 100ft down the runway. (Exaggerated, but you get the gist)
well, really, if you're on your numbers, you shouldn't float............
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"If it flies, floats or (four letter word for fornicating)s, rent it."
-A much older, and wiser man.
Now that is some damn good advice! :aok
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I seriously doubt that this is really registered glider, maybe you are thinking 'motor glider'?
Yes, and no. It IS considered a motor-glider, but there is no real distinction between motor glider and glider as far as registration, license requirements I believe. However this is definitely registered as a Glider. I've checked several times on the certificates just to be sure. It's probably the only one in the world that ISN'T registered as LSA though lol
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man .. I *love* flyin different aircraft.
The whole feel of a stick instead of a yoke .. fabric vs metal .. approach and flare differences .. takeoff rolls and departing pattern altitude right after rotation or puttin around for an hour never over 500' AGL .. it's all just amazingly good fun.
Nothin like a CAVU day .. flyin.
Anything.
-GE aka Frank
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(http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs246.snc1/9324_1217764967543_1331452689_639284_8334904_n.jpg)
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(http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs246.snc1/9324_1217764967543_1331452689_639284_8334904_n.jpg)
dam dude!!!!
that just ain't right!!!
funny as hell, but not right!
:rofl :rofl