Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: FLS on September 09, 2009, 09:34:07 AM
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Just a quick FYI. It works in AH, the FF is awesome. I hope Hitech gets one.
--)-FLS-----
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Please let us know if it lasts longer than a week or 2 b4 breaking. Many people have shown interest in trying them.
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Still waiting on mine, UPS delivery on the 14th... Thanks for the headsup! Really looking forward to the FFB.. How does the dual throttle feel, and have ya tried it with P38, A20, 110, 88? I've heard that the trim wheels have no detents?
If ya feel like, give us a little review, as it pertains to AHII... I'd like to hear it..
RC
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Throttle feels very smooth and it's easy to split and rejoin the 2 throttles. Detents on the 5 rotaries would be nice. I find it easier to use elevator and rudder trim on the throttle rotaries instead of the JS trims. Sorry I haven't had time for more of a review. It feels very good for plastic and at cruising speeds it reminds me of my old CH gear. The stall warning and buffet is good and the variation in control forces at different speeds feels more like real flying. I think it adds at least as much to sim flying as Track IR.
--)-FLS-----
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Good to hear! Nice to have some competition out there for CH. Like others, I hope it's durable.
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Yeah, WWII planes still had mechanical control linkages, (mostly)... So they had a very direct feel for the air on the ailerons and elevators... Having that tactile sensation, of the pushback by aerodynamic force, will feel great... Allow better E retention, or hang a little tighter in turns.. And just more fun, all around!!
RC
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wow never seen those before please do let us know how they are doing 2-4 weeks later as i have had no luck with Logitech joysticks. i bought one opened the box hooked it up and it never worked right.
is the stick still twisty or no?
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wow never seen those before please do let us know how they are doing 2-4 weeks later as i have had no luck with Logitech joysticks. i bought one opened the box hooked it up and it never worked right.
is the stick still twisty or no?
Comes with rudder pedals as part of the $300 price tag for the unit.
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Finally!!! This one arrived by slow boat....!
First impressions, seems well made, everything visible is assembled with screws, good feel and proportions, fits well in hands, semi grippy texture on stick and throttle(s), buttons have good positive feel, trim wheels have no detents/white center marks only, pedals seem solid, no rocking, feel ok on socks/slippered feet... Overall, its a little lighter than I thought it would be... But I'm going to anchor it down as centerline stick configuration, so that won't really matter...
Stylewise, it is made to generally appear as a piece of formed alloy aero hardware, when bolted into simpit side/center consoles.. IMO they pulled it off well... Medium metallic gray, etc...
Its very cool!!! Can already tell that I'm gonna love this thing!!!
The box just felt a little "light" for $300bucks worth... (oldschool, psychological thing!!!)
The (modders) are going to go crazy with this one, LOL!!! Obviously lots of room for additions/mods...
Have read, that there are driver conflicts with older Logitec drivers.. So will wait till I have time to dump any old logi drivers before loading the new ones..
Will post more as soon as I have time to sort it out!!
RC
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Comes with rudder pedals as part of the $300 price tag for the unit.
i understand that i just wish it does i wish CH put out a twisty stick. i can not adapt to rudder pedals
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I've been watching this one with interest. I've used a Cougar for years but this is the first new HOTAS to come along that makes me think 'new toy!'. SimHQ has reviewed it here: http://www.simhq.com/_technology2/technology_155a.html (http://www.simhq.com/_technology2/technology_155a.html)
I posted some thoughts in the article reply section, IMO they should have put the trim rotaries behind the buttons on the throttle base to be more similar to RL cockpit ergonomics. As for center detents, real trim wheels in aircraft don't have 'em... although it was pointed out to me that if you intend to use the 'trim' rotaries for other purposes a center detent might be a good thing.
I've never used a FFB stick in my life, how does it work when the stick is near the center, is there a noticeable 'bump' or anything once you move it away from center enough to trigger the FFB? Does it screw up your ability to aim?
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Jocko the FF centers the stick so there's no transition, it feels very natural. I haven't tried it with "spring centering" turned on since that would defeat it's purpose for me.
I've been using a modded Cougar and I'm happy with G940. Aiming seems easier without spring centering but I can't prove it with my shooting. If you lose half a wing or crash then the stick really shakes until you let go or end flight but all forces are adjustable so you can set it up as you like.
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I'm still concerned about the long term life of the stick, even listening to the stick being used on youtube you can hear the *click* when he pulls the trigger. I won't even bring up the pots considering Logitech's history...
Could one of you guys that have purchased the G940 come back every 3 months and give us an update?
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Is there an update on the longevity of these sticks? Former Logitecs would give out even this fast. Also, does it still use standard pots on all movements of have they switched to other sensors yet? The Halls on the X52 have done me well.
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AFAIK the G940 uses Hall sensors, not pots.
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AFAIK the G940 uses Hall sensors, not pots.
Oh, this is getting more and more promising...why doesn't money fall from the skies again? :D
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I have a logitec FFB stick had to stop using it, it would need calibrating every time you used it.
When it did work the feedback was fun,it was a shame about calibration issues.
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If you are talking about the old Force 3Dpro, that one is a rumble stick, not true FFB....
Huge difference between that one, and the 940...
RC
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Couple things I've noticed after actually spending some serious time playing with the 940..
Pedals are too damn narrow, killin my knees... But my Motocross knee braces help....
Have to increase the deadband for pitch and roll, just a little, because the FFB will trip off the auto takeoff/level/climb..
Too much travel in the trigger (for me), overall, and between the first and second switch trip points..
RC
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How close together are the pedals? With my current Logitech pedals they are about 2 big toe widths apart, any closer and I can see why it'd be painful. Would hate to buy this sometime (when price drops) and not be able to use the new pedals.
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I dont think Ive ever heard anyone use "big toe width" as a reference for measuring before......... how would that convert to say a gnats arse or a hoot and hollar?
is this a standard big toe? it might make a difference if you were Shaq or WeeMan
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I don't keep a ruler handy, so I use the only thing I got! :lol
Maybe about 2-2.5" between pedals. For you literalists.
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Have to increase the deadband for pitch and roll, just a little, because the FFB will trip off the auto takeoff/level/climb..
RC
I'm surprised to see this since I use zero deadband and have no issues with autotrim.
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Its a tad over 4 1/2 inches between the inside edge of the pedal buckets.. Too narrow for me!!!
I'd really like a set with about 16 inch pedal separation...
But, you know the old saying.. Wish in one hand, **** in the other, see which gets full first!!!
RC
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The G940 pedals are 14.25 inches from outside edge to edge. CH Pro pedals are 12.25. 2 inches wider.
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Thanks for the sizes, much larger then the current set of pedals I use. These pedals are about 6-8" edge to edge, and 1.5-2" inside to inside. Didn't realize these were so small compared to actual (game) rudder pedals. :)
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Fls, you're making it so that I may need to buy one of these come Christmas. I've been trying to hold out, but I'm too drawn by the force feedback... Trying to stay strong though.
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The Force is strong in this one Madda. IMO it has no competition.
RC are you using spring centering?
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Nope!! That might be the diff with the autopilot thing...
When I first enter the cockpit, engine off, the stick is a little bit forward, (elevators drooping)... But when I start the engine, I can feel the airflow on the elevator, (stick moves back)...
As I start the take off roll, the stick moves as the air starts to "tell" on the control surfaces, which moves the stick... Hence, clicks off the autotakeoff... Makes sense actually!!!
Thats one of the things I like MOST about it... Once I got used to it...
RC
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I don't use spring centering or auto takeoff, no idea why we're seeing a difference. Auto level, climb, and speed don't trip off for me. If I take off hands off the stick I see no stick movement.
If you let go of the stick for auto takeoff the optical sensor will turn the stick off and you can use it with no deadband.
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Is it still working?
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Is it still working?
I would like to know also. I have a CH stick just not the rest of the setup right now but I can probably sell that and get this whole system if it's still working and I hear some more positive feedback.
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How close together are the pedals? With my current Logitech pedals they are about 2 big toe widths apart, any closer and I can see why it'd be painful. Would hate to buy this sometime (when price drops) and not be able to use the new pedals.
One of the reasons that I switched from CH to Saitek pedals is the Saitek pedals are wider than the CH ones. I just measured my Saitek rudder pedals, and they are about 13 inches from rear center to rear center of each pedal. IDK what the CH pedal measure, but I know the Saitek ones are much more comfortable (for me) in that respect. Saitek are also adjustable for tension, although the adjustment doesn't make that big of a difference as far as I can tell. Also adjustable for length if that matters.
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I love the stick/throttle but the pedals are a little below my CH pro pedals IMO. Mostly due to a much less solid feeling of "centered" and a shorter travel range. Not at all bad but is about on par with going from a stiff spring to a loose one on JS. FFB is exceptional and all parts seem very solid....
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Can you mix rudder pedals with the G940?
ack-ack
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Can you mix rudder pedals with the G940?
ack-ack
I don't see why not since each control device registers separately in the game, I'll dig out my pro pedals and double check that over the weekend...
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I hope Hitech takes notice of this thread . I hope you guys posting about good buffet feel soon realize it does not work in this game .At all .The FFB has a bug . One that has been around for over a year and half at least . I have researched FFB alot since I started here . I have also been helped to understand even more in recent months . My wingman in this game ,and the very best of friend wrote his masters thesis on haptics . He is a programmer , and still educating me on the other end of this wonderful stuff . I merely understood what I was supposed to feel . I knew it wasn't right in AH2 my first flight . The buffet effect should be linked to the buffet sound . starting very gentle and gradually increasing as the plane shakes harder . Buffet does not work at all .To test what I am saying turn of stall effect in game ,see how much buffet you get . Stall is also porked . Stall should be linked to stall buzzer as it gets louder stick should get a sloppier feel. That would be a decrease in return to center effect . Becoming less and less as stall horn gets louder . That doesn't happen , since stall buzzer causes ill timed stick buffet . Airspeed ,and trim also do not work correctly . Airspeed increase should cause graduated increase in stick centering force , becoming tighter and tighter as speed increases . That does not happen either . Trim effects is an area , I still have questions in . I am not 100% sure of what it should feel like so I wont say anything I am not sure is correct . The guys that run this thing do not suffer fools gladly , and I hope someday they will fix this . Feeling like the lone voice in the wilderness , I won't risk them totally ignoring me for all time because I ran my mouth when I should have ran my ears . One thing that really discouraged me was when my wingy told me the PROBABLE amount of time to fix it would be . The folks that are HTC state that there is not sufficient interest in FFB for it to become a priority . I think they under estimate that . Run a simple search for FFB in the bbs and look for yourself . I also think <and this is an assumption on my part> they look at it as a gimmick . If that is true , I disagree once again as the military has put device on their fly by wire aircraft called a stick shaker to simulate stick actions that you had by physical linkage . Commercial aviation intrests have also added these to some models of fly by wire , to reduce pilot induced errors . I would love to see a few of you FFB users try my eliminate stall experiment and tell me what you think .
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I don't see why not since each control device registers separately in the game, I'll dig out my pro pedals and double check that over the weekend...
They come with rudder pedals . I was hoping they decide to sell them without them .
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They come with rudder pedals . I was hoping they decide to sell them without them .
That's what I was thinking as well.
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One of the reasons that I switched from CH to Saitek pedals is the Saitek pedals are wider than the CH ones. I just measured my Saitek rudder pedals, and they are about 13 inches from rear center to rear center of each pedal. IDK what the CH pedal measure, but I know the Saitek ones are much more comfortable (for me) in that respect. Saitek are also adjustable for tension, although the adjustment doesn't make that big of a difference as far as I can tell. Also adjustable for length if that matters.
It does if you wear size 14 shoes like I do . Saitek pedals are the only ones that have ever been comfortable .
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Hlbly I don't understand why you'd want to use spring centering on a FFB stick when you're concerned about realistic behavior.
As to your other points, I haven't noticed any FFB bugs. Maybe the problem is the stick you're using.
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As to your other points, I haven't noticed any FFB bugs. Maybe the problem is the stick you're using.
That could be a possibility depending on which force feedback API the stick is compatible with. When CH had their Force FX joystick, it used the IForce 1.0 API and when games started to use the IForce 2.0 API with more forcefeedback effects, those new effects wouldn't be felt on the Force FX. The same when games started to use Microsoft's Force Factory API, there were some games that the Force FX wouldn't work in because the API was incompatible with the stick.
ack-ack
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Hlbly I don't understand why you'd want to use spring centering on a FFB stick when you're concerned about realistic behavior.
As to your other points, I haven't noticed any FFB bugs. Maybe the problem is the stick you're using.
HTC has acknowledged the bug . Seriously turn everything off but buffet then tell me there is no bug . Do you think that buffet should be controlled by stall horn ? Spring centering and return to center force are two different things .