Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: WMLute on September 11, 2009, 10:20:44 PM
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I was in a Sherman at an nme town and killing buildings when I noticed it was taking me 3 HE rounds to drop one building.
Granted, i'm not much of a tanker, but I coulda sworn it only took two HE rounds in a tank to drop a single town building.
Link to Film MegaUpload (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=POWAF880)
Link to Film FileFactory (http://www.filefactory.com/file/ah8ahc9/n/town_kill_ahf)
Link to Film RapidShare (http://rapidshare.com/files/278873734/town_kill.ahf.html)
Link to Film SpeedyShare (http://www.speedyshare.com/932995390.html)
Did this change at some point?
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It might have changed I remember that it use to take two HE. I don't know though.
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shermans take 3 HE rounds panzer, tiger t34/85 takes 2. Don't know about the t34/76. Place 1 round between adjacent buildings usually get both saves ammo. Hope this helped. :salute
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http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/guns/guns.htm
Town building hardness is 250lbs, IIRC.
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sherman HE has always been weak compared to the 2 rounds for most other tanks.
I've always wondered why this is the case because the AP round will "Blow the bloody doors off" every other tank :D
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http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/guns/guns.htm
Town building hardness is 250lbs, IIRC.
Riddle me this then.
250lbs to kill a town bld. The trainer page shows the 3" HE round as being equivalent to 140.6lbs in ord.
2 x 140.6 = 281.2
According to that (and my memory) two HE rounds from a Sherman should kill a town building.
So something is wrong here.
Town building hardness is off or the Shermans HE rounds is not 140.6lbs worth of ord.
When I was at the town last night (I forget if this is in the film or not) I would use the Main Gun machine gun and IT would kill the building right after the second round ish. So give/take 20-40lbs of bullets (i'd have to go back and count).
That being the case, it would put the Sherman HE rounds closer to 120 lbs equiv. which to me sounds way off.
Could someone who checks these things check this please and make sure it isn't just me?
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Well, don't try an M8, :rofl :rofl
Let me give a hint, Don't shoot any building twice if it's close to another building. Shoot one building and then the one next to it. Often that will take both buildings down.
Wmlute, are you trying a new aspect of the game? Just curious. I know you've been around a good long while.
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Let me give a hint, Don't shoot any building twice if it's close to another building. Shoot one building and then the one next to it. Often that will take both buildings down.
Wmlute, are you trying a new aspect of the game? Just curious. I know you've been around a good long while.
Not in a Sherman it won't.
I occasionally tank. I usually use an Osti for town killing purposes but I ended up tracked in an nme town last night and that was when I noticed this. (I was there for revenge on an nme tank that killed my osti last hop)
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The Sherman HE round is still rated 140.6 lbs (0.1406 x 1000 lbs), I just did a offline test to verify that.
However, by looking at the objects list in offline mode I found that the standard value for Town is 0.3125 = 312.5 x1000lbs.
So yes, the Sherman Firelfy needs 3 hits to kill a town building
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I was in a Sherman at an nme town and killing buildings when I noticed it was taking me 3 HE rounds to drop one building.
Granted, i'm not much of a tanker, but I coulda sworn it only took two HE rounds in a tank to drop a single town building.
Link to Film MegaUpload (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=POWAF880)
Link to Film FileFactory (http://www.filefactory.com/file/ah8ahc9/n/town_kill_ahf)
Link to Film RapidShare (http://rapidshare.com/files/278873734/town_kill.ahf.html)
Link to Film SpeedyShare (http://www.speedyshare.com/932995390.html)
Did this change at some point?
Use the perked T34. It only takes 2 rounds and if you shoot the building next to those that just blew up it only takes 1 round. OK there's my secret for dropping town with 1 T34. :salute
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Use and LVT, 1.5 rounds per building. IE 3 rounds two buildings, just hit the edge closest to the second building on your second shot and put the third in the second building. Badda Boom.
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lvt is the best town buster. 75 mm with a fast rate of fire :aok
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i always thought it was like 1 0r 1
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lvt is the best town buster. 75 mm with a fast rate of fire :aok
Naaw... the Ostwind. Highest rate of fire for the 37mm in a GV, and loads of ammo. 2 Osties can knock down a town by themselves in under 5 minutes. If you use the hull MG on the gun batteries, just one can take 100% of a town down.
Town Building requires 250lbs of explosives to take down. Ostwind 37mm = 15.6 lbs of explosives. So, it takes 16 shots with the ostwind to take down a building... not taking into account that some buildings will be damaged next to the one you are shooting.
Town has 53 buildings in it. Ostwind has 1000 rounds of 37mm. So... 1000 rounds / 16 rounds per building = 62.5 buildings worth of "boom boom". This gives you plenty of ammo to wreck a town, and take out the auto guns, and still have your hull MG as a backup. And... with the rate of fire on the 37mm at 480 rpm... this makes the time to take down a town in a SINGLE ostwind (assuming you dont have to move and re-aim, and you expend ALL your ammo)... just over 2 minutes. Taking into account that you have to move, re-aim, some shots will miss, etc... Lets say 5 minutes. And that is with ONE Ostwind. Never seen it done in that time, as you usually end up having to dodge opponents... but it "could" be done.
Never... never... let an opponents ostwind into your town.
AKA: Homewrecker
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It is actually 20 rounds to kill a town building in an Osti.
(yeah I count 'em)
Which confirms what Snail said about a town building needing 312.5 lbs to drop it.
But yes that is what I take to drop towns and am rarely in a tank to attack a town hence my ingonrance on the subject.
If i'm in a Sherman it's usually to attack other tanks. I use the Osti for towns.
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It is actually 20 rounds to kill a town building in an Osti.
(yeah I count 'em)
Which confirms what Snail said about a town building needing 312.5 lbs to drop it.
But yes that is what I take to drop towns and am rarely in a tank to attack a town hence my ingonrance on the subject.
If i'm in a Sherman it's usually to attack other tanks. I use the Osti for towns.
Just going by the official figures and doin the math... even at 20 per building, that's 50 buildings for one Ostwind. I'm gonna have to check that in game now and do the counting. The official amount of damage it takes is stated on the AH2 website at 250 for a town building. See here:
http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/levelbombing/levelbombing.htm
Perhaps the difference in what it takes to drop a building in less than one hit (as with a bomb) is due to the building is actually regenerating while it is being damaged... could be why you need the extra 3 or 4 shots with a 35mm (I have never counted the actual shots) Not sure. This warrants some more research in game methinks.
Oh... and here's a pic of good ol' Helga the Homewrecker for ya
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l273/woosle_2006/HelgaTheHomewrecker.jpg)
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Default object hardness in AH.
(http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/files/murdr/objhard.jpg)
The confusion is that a bombs destructive power isn't based on its weight.
A 250lbs bomb does more damage than 250lbs.
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so what happens if we drop the tower with 125K of explosives?
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um, 480 rds a min ? :rofl
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um, 480 rds a min ? :rofl
That's what the specs are on it.
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Default object hardness in AH.
(http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/files/murdr/objhard.jpg)
The confusion is that a bombs destructive power isn't based on its weight.
A 250lbs bomb does more damage than 250lbs.
Nice, cant find that though... can you post the link?
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Nice, cant find that though... can you post the link?
Was from one of Murdrs posts. LINK (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,261263.msg3245265.html#msg3245265)
I have no clue how he came up with those numbers and I hope he reads this thread and chimes in.
What I found most interesting was the bigger the bomb (according to Murdr) the weaker it is vs. its weight.
You would think that 4x250lbs would produce the same damage as a 1,000lbs bomb.
According to Murdrs post 4x250lbs bombs does 1,250lbs worth of damage vs. an object.
Two 500lbs bombs do 1,136lbs worth of damage vs. and object.
A single 1k egg does 1,000lbs of damage.
A 2,000lbs bomb does 1,819lbs worth of damage vs. an object.
So an A20 with 8x500lbs bombs can potentially do 4,544lbs worth of damage to an object. Two A20s can drop a Carrier with those numbers. (good to know)
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so what happens if we drop the tower with 125K of explosives?
The object disappears and everyone in the tower sees themselves floating over the O'Club. I think it burns, too, but I don't remember.
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sherman HE has always been weak compared to the 2 rounds for most other tanks.
I've always wondered why this is the case because the AP round will "Blow the bloody doors off" every other tank :D
The 17 pounder used in the Firefly had a weaker HE round than the M1A1 76mm used in several Sherman variants, which in turn had a weaker HE round than the 75mm used in earlier Shermans. That was a main reason the Americans weren't quicker to upgun the 75mm Shermans, since (faulty) doctrine stated that the Sherman was to be used for infantry support while TDs engaged enemy tanks.
AP and HE performance in the same caliber have little to do with each other, but to the extent they're related the correlation is usually inverse. This is because the 76mm shell isn't appreciably bigger than the 75mm but it has to be built tougher to take the stress of the higher muzzle velocity that makes the AP round more effective. More space and weight for the heavier shell casing means less space and weight for the explosives inside.
The same goes for AP and HE bombs and naval gun shells, but the game doesn't model that.
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That's what the specs are on it.
I'll correct that. 160rpm is the winner on this one.
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Was from one of Murdrs posts. LINK (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,261263.msg3245265.html#msg3245265)
I have no clue how he came up with those numbers and I hope he reads this thread and chimes in.
What I found most interesting was the bigger the bomb (according to Murdr) the weaker it is vs. its weight.
You would think that 4x250lbs would produce the same damage as a 1,000lbs bomb.
According to Murdrs post 4x250lbs bombs does 1,250lbs worth of damage vs. an object.
Two 500lbs bombs do 1,136lbs worth of damage vs. and object.
A single 1k egg does 1,000lbs of damage.
A 2,000lbs bomb does 1,819lbs worth of damage vs. an object.
So an A20 with 8x500lbs bombs can potentially do 4,544lbs worth of damage to an object. Two A20s can drop a Carrier with those numbers. (good to know)
Makes sense now... the table that calculates projectile damage to an object to uses the 1000 bomb as its reference point, while the table showing what size bomb it takes to destroy an object does not show the bombs actual explosive power, or the hardness of the object. This is great data to have, and will cause me to look at my bomb loadout differently.
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I was in a Sherman at an nme town and killing buildings when I noticed it was taking me 3 HE rounds to drop one building.
Granted, i'm not much of a tanker, but I coulda sworn it only took two HE rounds in a tank to drop a single town building.
Did this change at some point?
The Sherman Firefly had a very high velocity round, so it needed thicker shell walls to withstand the acceleration of the round, and hence less room for explosives in the round for the Firefly compared to a Panzer, or even a T34/75. It's always taken 3 HE rounds for the Sherman per building, ammo bunker, radar, etc.
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Personally, I think we should be able to turn the turret around backwards, and drive through the mother $%^$#&*, but thats just me. :t
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Personally, I think we should be able to turn the turret around backwards, and drive through the mother $%^$#&*, but thats just me. :t
Amen to that... include trees and those tank flipping bushes too.
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Amen to that... include trees and those tank flipping bushes too.
Ahhhhh, another victim of the horrible criminal I like to call the Mad Shrubbist! :uhoh
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Ahhhhh, another victim of the horrible criminal I like to call the Mad Shrubbist! :uhoh
"Roger's the name... Shrubber by trade. I arrange, design, and sell shrubberies."
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Ok... I took the data that WMLute pointed me to, which Murdr originally posted. I also checked it in the arena settings and its all the same. I took that data, and combined it with the data for Projectile Strength Analysis located here:
http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/guns/guns.htm
And this is the result.
http://home.comcast.net/~princeak/OrdinanceVsObjectHardness.xls
A chart showing how many rounds every weapon I could get data on needs to destroy every object in the game I could get data on. I didnt find anything on the actual hardness of a CV or CA... just the destroyers. I also ESTIMATED the EP of a 100lb bomb... since I couldnt find that anywhere either. So if anyone has that data, I will add it to the chart. Please feel free to double check and point out any errors. Again... this is based SOLEY on the data provided... but it seems to match up in game. I kept the decimal for rounds needed at 1, so if it shows that it takes 1.6 rounds to destroy the object, I would take 2 in game
If there are no errors, I will convert to a PDF for ease of printing and viewing a hardcopy.
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The hardness of a Cruiser is the same as the Destroyers. The ship hardness multiplier for the carrier will give its hardness...I think it's 6k, but I don't remember too well.
EDIT: Uploaded it to GoogleDocs here (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tKpccpc7avsUR9EpBj_b2UA&single=true&gid=0&output=html) so that everyone can see it without saving it or needing an Office program.
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The hardness of a Cruiser is the same as the Destroyers. The ship hardness multiplier for the carrier will give its hardness...I think it's 6k, but I don't remember too well.
EDIT: Uploaded it to GoogleDocs here (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tKpccpc7avsUR9EpBj_b2UA&single=true&gid=0&output=html) so that everyone can see it without saving it or needing an Office program.
Oh cool! Thanks for uploading it. Never used GoogleDocs before. It doesnt keep the frame splits, but anyone can just view it now :aok
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Personally, I think we should be able to turn the turret around backwards, and drive through the mother $%^$#&*, but thats just me. :t
I'd be all for that, as long as at least one in three had a basement.