Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: IronDog on September 15, 2009, 11:29:18 PM
-
I wonder how many players are satisfied with the collisions and all of the ho-ing that is prevalent in the game as it now stands?From a realistic standpoint I guess collisions occurred,and Ho's were taken,but I think most players would like to see both collisions and ho-ing go.Take away ho-ing and perhaps one could get into some nice fights,and if they could'nt ram you,geez how nice that would be.I came to AH from a Air Warrior background,and I enjoyed that game a lot,and collisions were turned off,and to take a ho shot and get positive results was highly unlikely.If my memory serves me,the p38 and the Skeeter were about the only planes that you might connect with.The A'z had a guy that was pretty good in a P38,that could hit you pretty regular with a ho shot.While I'm reminiscing about Air Warrior,I wonder how well the over-rev would work in AH?OK,with a show of hands,how many would like to see the ho-ing and collisions go!
IronDog
-
OK,with a show of hands,how many would like to see the ho-ing and collisions go!
Not me.
-
How low can I put my hand? I don't want someone to accidentally think I have mine raised...
I think both are absolutely necessary to have any semblance of reality in our simulated fights.
Both keep our fights somewhat "honest".
Fly carelessly, suffer a collision.
Give your opponent a gun solution, get shot.
Pretty simple really.
What does your skill in the rest of the fight matter, if you should have died on the merge?
-
I wonder how many players are satisfied with the collisions and all of the ho-ing that is prevalent in the game as it now stands?From a realistic standpoint I guess collisions occurred,and Ho's were taken,but I think most players would like to see both collisions and ho-ing go.Take away ho-ing and perhaps one could get into some nice fights,and if they could'nt ram you,geez how nice that would be.I came to AH from a Air Warrior background,and I enjoyed that game a lot,and collisions were turned off,and to take a ho shot and get positive results was highly unlikely.If my memory serves me,the p38 and the Skeeter were about the only planes that you might connect with.The A'z had a guy that was pretty good in a P38,that could hit you pretty regular with a ho shot.While I'm reminiscing about Air Warrior,I wonder how well the over-rev would work in AH?OK,with a show of hands,how many would like to see the ho-ing and collisions go!
IronDog
i've been being lucky enough to find guys like potsnpans, llgaf, stang, and those 2nd amendment guys. they're all good fights. never ho. they just fight clean, patiently, and seem to enjoy the fights.
there's others too. pretty much any SAPP pile-it is a fun fight.
-
if you take away political chat, HOs, and collisions........ may as well take 200 off as well
nothing but silence :rofl
-
No hands here.
Collisions and HOs are fine for me how they are now. I have hard time seeing how they could be made any better.
-
WOW! How can i answer this in a polite way? SUCK IT UP BUTTERCUP!
It is inevitable that collisions and HO going to happen. I do it and it happens to me. I don’t cry about it and leave it as is.
-
HO is the first move in ACM unless they are flying in the same direction. The collisions is somewhat useful when your out of amunition. Play your cards right and you get the kill.
Infidelz.
-
Collisions and HO shots happen. Just yesterday I had both happen at once! I was coming in one a spitfire, he saw me and started turning, and I miss judjed how quickly he could get around. We both shot but I got his tail, and as I went to fly past for another kill his plane nosed up into me taking my wing off! Never seen a collision like it before, it was beautiful. :lol
If you get killed in a HO shot, it was just your fault. Not the other person for being "dweeby no skilled Hoer". You knew the riske of a HO, and you took it. HO shots are actually pretty easy to dodge too (not sure why everyone whines about them), at 1000 distance, just turn in any direction and you will dodge the other planes shots almost all the time.
I for one, would like to see collision redone though. If a collision is detected, both planes should go down, not just 1 while the other flies away with no damage.
-
Don´t like HOs and collisions?
Drive a tank...Fly resupply missions...Take command of a taskforce!...man a AA-gun...
Sounds interesting! :noid
-
We have Hellcat Aces, such as.... McSweeny (I think), who had never once, no, not once, been on the 6 of a Japanese aircraft. Every single last kill was head-on. Your in The Corp? You can look up better records then we can about VMF Aces.......... Point is, don't bring up "realistic" if the actually reality isn't something that you want to talk about. We have far less head-on's in game then they did in RL. :salute
From a realistic standpoint I guess collisions occurred,and Ho's were taken....
IronDog
-
I for one, would like to see collision redone though. If a collision is detected, both planes should go down, not just 1 while the other flies away with no damage.
-1
why should I get taken out if I've flown carefully to avoid a collision but the other guy hasnt?
-
I think collisions are inevitable. They happen. From all directions.
HO's for the most part are avoidable. Not always but most.
Personally I think there's not a lot the HTC crew can do to change
the way things are.
<S>
KlunK
-
Collision model is fine. Net lag makes weird things happen, but que sera sera.
-
IIRC the reason HOs were considered bad form in AW is because they were too easy with the hit bubble. If nobody connected it would never have been an issue. To carry that over into AH where the modeling is different has always struck me as ludicrous given that HOs have always been a part of RL air combat.
I don't see how the collision model could be improved at this point and I see no reason to turn it off.
Most of the complaints I see about HOs and collisions seem to reduce to " I would have won if I hadn't died."
-
It appears that few of the guys that complain about ho's and collisions visit the BB,as most of the replies supported ho-ing and collisions.It's just when I'm flying I see so many people denying they ho,and so many people pizzing and moaning about collisions.I think most folks support things only when it works for them :lol By the way,I don't really care how the ho's and collisions go,I was only trying to get a survey on most peoples feelings about the subject.
ID
-
Actually.... I found that interesting as well. But usually, it's all the anti-ho's that speak up. :D
It appears that few of the guys that complain about ho's and collisions visit the BB,as most of the replies supported ho-ing and collisions.
ID
:salute
-
Alright, before this poo-storm really gets started:
I know it's a rather redunkulous download (being a 1:20:37 long MP3 file), but this explains the collision model ENTIRELY in all sorts of ways directly from the Man himself. If you still think collisions are unfair after hearing this, you need a hole bored through your head. :lol It also explains some other various lag "issues." I find them very interesting to listen to once in a while, though there are three episodes.
Link (http://rapidshare.com/files/280945155/MikeThinksPodcast1.mp3), ~37MB
I'm sure those who are adamant that it suxors and that it's out to get them will keep their tinfoil hats pointed in that link's direction, but maybe it will clear a few people's heads.
-
It appears that few of the guys that complain about ho's and collisions visit the BB,as most of the replies supported ho-ing and collisions.It's just when I'm flying I see so many people denying they ho,and so many people pizzing and moaning about collisions.I think most folks support things only when it works for them :lol By the way,I don't really care how the ho's and collisions go,I was only trying to get a survey on most peoples feelings about the subject.
ID
EVERYONE ho's at one point or another.
there are no exceptions.
-
It appears that few of the guys that complain about ho's and collisions visit the BB,as most of the replies supported ho-ing and collisions.
No.
We don't support collisions. We do support the collision modeling in Aces High 2.
That's a big difference.
-
No collisions are unfair
All mid-air collisions can be avoided
Every collision is the result of one's own doing
-
It ain't broke, please don't try to fix it. Rather learn how it works, learn to avoid the situation.
-
A Ho is personal and up to the individual to do or not do. i personally dont ho unless im getting ganged, then i have nothing to lose.
collisions-- get to close, you're gonna have a collision. works with cars too. i dont have a problem with collisions. personally i think freindly collisions should be allowed, that would reduce ganging!
-
I have been hoed on and it is part of the game. Someone said once that this is the only way a noob can get a kill. maybee that is true or not ,I just go about my day. I try not to ho myself.
As for collisions they are going to happen sooner or later. its not that you collide its how you deal with it .
Do you get on 200 and complain all night or do you just remember that it is a game. I guess I still care what my actions are and that I play with respect .
Maybe Im just old fashioned.
-
. personally i think freindly collisions should be allowed, that would reduce ganging!
DEFINITELY AGREED.
-
How do you get rid of HO? Make it impossible to shoot if you have your nose pointed at someone? Make it impossible to point your nose at another plane?
And you want to get rid of collisions as well?
So we all fly around in S circles because no one can shoot at each other and we can all play bumper planes because collisions don't hurt the planes...yeah fun stuff :frown:
You don't like collisions or HO's, play another flight sim offline and turn off anything that has to do with realistic mode.
-
How low can I put my hand? I don't want someone to accidentally think I have mine raised...
I think both are absolutely necessary to have any semblance of reality in our simulated fights.
Both keep our fights somewhat "honest".
Fly carelessly, suffer a collision.
Give your opponent a gun solution, get shot.
Pretty simple really.
What does your skill in the rest of the fight matter, if you should have died on the merge?
Agree... :salute
-
How do you get rid of HO? Make it impossible to shoot if you have your nose pointed at someone? Make it impossible to point your nose at another plane?
And you want to get rid of collisions as well?
So we all fly around in S circles because no one can shoot at each other and we can all play bumper planes because collisions don't hurt the planes...yeah fun stuff :frown:
You don't like collisions or HO's, play another flight sim offline and turn off anything that has to do with realistic mode.
WELL......
remember one thing about turning off the ability to ho........they did that in AW3. look where they are now.
as bad as i suck at avoiding them, and as much as i hate them........and as much as i hate doing them...and i have when i get ho'd first........i don't think they should change anything. it works as it is.
-
personally i think freindly collisions should be allowed, that would reduce ganging!
DEFINITELY AGREED.
In that case you would have to treat any green con in the are as an an enemy.
Ever heard about griefing? You don't like me for any reason? Wait until I'm on my landing approach in my 262, bringing home 10 scalps... then "ram" me.
Friendly cons warping around... noobs in their first day of flying colliding with you...
It's just not possible in the MA's.
-
We would have to find something else to squeak about
-
In that case you would have to treat any green con in the are as an an enemy.
Ever heard about griefing? You don't like me for any reason? Wait until I'm on my landing approach in my 262, bringing home 10 scalps... then "ram" me.
Friendly cons warping around... noobs in their first day of flying colliding with you...
It's just not possible in the MA's.
yep....and understood. but that would simply be logged as a report........possibly an automated report......you collide with me once....ok.....maybe an accident.........you collide with me a second time........ejected.
-
WELL......
remember one thing about turning off the ability to ho........they did that in AW3. look where they are now.
as bad as i suck at avoiding them, and as much as i hate them........and as much as i hate doing them...and i have when i get ho'd first........i don't think they should change anything. it works as it is.
Actually, in all the versions of AW I played there were no head on shots. Well not exactly, since you could still score head on hits but the probability was very low to the point that it was not a viable tactic if you were in a plane without nose mounted guns. In AW planes with nose mounted guns got a slight bonus modifier to the head on shot probability, these were the planes you would regularly see flying straight at you with guns blazing. Having no collisions either made it easier for these planes to do it as well.
Unless you modify individual player behavior, you'll never get rid of head on shots. You can even code it in the system like AW did and you'll still see players trying to HO, regardless if the system will score or recognize a head on shot. It's the nature of the human beast and for that reason, head ons will never be eliminated from the game. For most, its the path of least resistance and gives them a chance for a kill without any real investment in skill and training.
ack-ack
-
WELL......
remember one thing about turning off the ability to ho........they did that in AW3. look where they are now.
So, EA bought Kesamai, plundered the company and killed AW3 due to the fact that you couldn't HO? That's quite a stretch.
:lol
I have no problem with the collision model nor HO's. I try avoiding HO's because I lose most of the times I try.
The objection most seem to have with collisions is they die due to them while the other guy flies off unscathed. I'm willing to bet that most of those deaths can be attributed to getting shot as each plane bores in on each other nose to nose than the actual collision itself.
wrongway
-
So, EA bought Kesamai, plundered the company and killed AW3 due to the fact that you couldn't HO? That's quite a stretch.
:lol
I have no problem with the collision model nor HO's. I try avoiding HO's because I lose most of the times I try.
The objection most seem to have with collisions is they die due to them while the other guy flies off unscathed. I'm willing to bet that most of those deaths can be attributed to getting shot as each plane bores in on each other nose to nose than the actual collision itself.
wrongway
no, i don't think that soley did it. but it(in the long run) was a poor decision on their part i think.
-
Not me.
Ditto, works great how it is.
-
I hate when someone HOs me. But when I think about it, 95% of the time I can duck it and kill them.
-
"See gramps! When you angle off with your nose any moron, even you you Depends wearing, cantankerous old coot,
can avoid a collision and head on!"
(http://images.inmagine.com/img/ojoimages/oj098/pe0065004.jpg)
-
No collisions are unfair
All mid-air collisions can be avoided
Every collision is the result of one's own doing
Not in buffs. But I don't think I've ever "lost" a collision being rear-ended by a careless fighter.
The one thing I'd change is the way kills are scored. I think it's a little silly that one guy can ram a second guy, the second guy's plane blows up, the first guy loses a whole wing and takes 10 seconds to flutter to the ground, and the first guy gets credit for a kill. Assuming they were both killed by the collision and not by gunfire immediately beforehand, either both players should get a kill or neither should.
I would never want to see collisions turned off. People fly unrealistically recklessly as it is.
-
Collisions and HO shots happen. Just yesterday I had both happen at once! I was coming in one a spitfire, he saw me and started turning, and I miss judjed how quickly he could get around. We both shot but I got his tail, and as I went to fly past for another kill his plane nosed up into me taking my wing off! Never seen a collision like it before, it was beautiful. :lol
If you get killed in a HO shot, it was just your fault. Not the other person for being "dweeby no skilled Hoer". You knew the riske of a HO, and you took it. HO shots are actually pretty easy to dodge too (not sure why everyone whines about them), at 1000 distance, just turn in any direction and you will dodge the other planes shots almost all the time.
I for one, would like to see collision redone though. If a collision is detected, both planes should go down, not just 1 while the other flies away with no damage.
I love watching guys spray helplessly as I act like I'm going to HO, then nose down at 1K or so. They nose down and red out while spraying! I also do that cause they fly right into my 234's guns.
-
I for one, would like to see collision redone though. If a collision is detected, both planes should go down, not just 1 while the other flies away with no damage.
[/quote]
YES +1
-
I for one, would like to see collision redone though. If a collision is detected, both planes should go down, not just 1 while the other flies away with no damage.
YES +1
I think it's time Lusche posts or links to his post on how the collision model works.
ack-ack
-
I think it's time Lusche posts or links to his post on how the collision model works.
ack-ack
As you wish, M'lord
I for one, would like to see collision redone though. If a collision is detected, both planes should go down, not just 1 while the other flies away with no damage.
YES +1
Lookt at this: It's the exact moment of a collision, from both players viewpoints (films)
On the P-51's screen it looks like this:
(http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/1364/rammyfegg1.jpg)
On the P-47 screen, it looks like this:
(http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/8728/ramotherfexg7.jpg)
You are the P-47...you see the things on screenshot #2.... would you still say YOU should go down?
-
I wonder how many players are satisfied with the collisions and all of the ho-ing that is prevalent in the game as it now stands?From a realistic standpoint I guess collisions occurred,and Ho's were taken,but I think most players would like to see both collisions and ho-ing go.Take away ho-ing and perhaps one could get into some nice fights,and if they could'nt ram you,geez how nice that would be.I came to AH from a Air Warrior background,and I enjoyed that game a lot,and collisions were turned off,and to take a ho shot and get positive results was highly unlikely.If my memory serves me,the p38 and the Skeeter were about the only planes that you might connect with.The A'z had a guy that was pretty good in a P38,that could hit you pretty regular with a ho shot.While I'm reminiscing about Air Warrior,I wonder how well the over-rev would work in AH?OK,with a show of hands,how many would like to see the ho-ing and collisions go!
IronDog
Collisions can be fixed HOing never will stop. FYI--if you see the prop, that's the front of the plane. TURN!
-
Collisions can be fixed
I'm curious: How?
-
He obviously didn't look at your wonderful illustration of the model. :rock
I'm curious: How?
-
I'm curious: How?
Stay in the Tower :O No but really can't they?
-
Stay in the Tower :O No but really can't they?
It is the perfect solution for an imperfect internet.
-
No but really can't they?
You said it can be fixed... All HTC now just needs is your knowledge about how to do that ;)
Still curious :)
-
As you wish, M'lord
Lookt at this: It's the exact moment of a collision, from both players viewpoints (films)
On the P-51's screen it looks like this:
(http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/1364/rammyfegg1.jpg)
On the P-47 screen, it looks like this:
(http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/8728/ramotherfexg7.jpg)
You are the P-47...you see the things on screenshot #2.... would you still say YOU should go down?
i dont want to sound stupid but why is it differenty in the screens when you should be seeing the same thing?
-
You said it can be fixed... All HTC now just needs is your knowledge about how to do that ;)
Still curious :)
I'm betting he has developed "warp speed internet"... he is just waiting for the patent to clear. ;)
-
i dont want to sound stupid but why is it differenty in the screens when you should be seeing the same thing?
Lag.
Signals have to travel from your opponents computer to you via the HTC server (an of course other way around too). This takes time, hence the disparity of "realities" between yours and his screen.
Read this: http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/lag/lag.htm
-
I guess it's time for another round of physics lesson: Understanding the Theory of Collisional Relativity
Albert Kweainstein, who replaced the basic Kweatonian Physics and fundamentally transformed how we perceive the physics of the AH world, explains the concept of 'relativity':
Time, is not absolute. Therefore, the issue is "relativity".
When you have two planes A and B flying in the vicinity of each other, the position of the opponent plane which each pilots may perceive, is different to one another according to the speed of data transmission.
Many tend to think that the virtual skies of AH is a single, given "space" which is absolute, but in reality, it is nothing but a medium which relays data from both the computers behind plane A and plane B, and then which position is displayed in a relative manner to each other according to the speed of the connection.
It is fortunate that at least, modern internet connections are sufficient enough to bring down the disparity in positional calculations to a matter of milliseconds - but still, as long as data travels to and fro from different places of the Earth at different speeds, the "spacial reality" of AH is not absolute. The pilot of plane A may observe plane B 400 yards behind him, while the pilot of plane B may observe plane A 300 yards in front of him.
In other words, the spacial relation between both frontends of the two players are different. There are two different realities which are slightly different from one another, but similar enough to put coherently together and describe as a singular instance.
However, in collision instances, a tiny, minute difference in the two individual realities of plane A and B may decide the difference between collision or no collision. In this case, there may be an extreme difference in the two separate realities of plane A (which has been determined to be "collided") and plane B (which has been determined to be "not collided").
Now, the issue is this: in such instance where the relative difference is so extreme, should this also be treated as a singular instance? In A's reality, he has collided, so it is everybit fair to say that A should be damaged. However, in B's reality, he has not collided - and yet, must he suffer the consequence of something which did not happen to him at all?
Thus, enters the collision system of AH - which, in a rare fashion, decides to split the two, extremely different realities of plane A and B, und treat it separately.
It can not be done otherwise, since the current system means that as long as you watch yourself and do not collide on your own frontend, you will be safe. Therefore, there is no such thing as an unexplained, unexpected collision. If a collision did happen in which you are damaged and the opponent is not, what happened to the "other plane" is a non-issue. What happens to him, is what happens in his reality, not yours. The only thing which is important is what happened in your reality, and in that separate reality, you have collided, and thus, you are damaged.
The physical world of Aces High is solid in that matter. Every collision has a reason, and therefore, can be estimated or expected. Hitech does not play dice."
- Albert Kweainstein -
In short, when a collision event happens, whether or not you take damage is entirely determined according to what happened on your frontend, your 'reality'. What happens to the other plane is none of your business, since his frontend had nothing to do with the results of what happened to your plane. What happens is decided upon the event that transpired in your version of reality, and when you hit a plane in that reality, you will be damaged.
Asking the collision to happen when only both frontends register collision, or asking for the other plane (in his reality) to register a collision when you have, is like saying that you should drop dead when a parallel version of yourself in a parallel dimension is hit by a car, when you in your own dimension, did not.
Gee, that sounds fair, eh?
-
A small footnote:
There has been issues about seemingly mysterious circumstances surrounding what happens in the film viewer. Some scientists have come up with evidence showing both frontends going into an event which seems to clearly suggest that collisions happened at both realities - but only one plane receives damage.
This phenomenon is nowadays explained by another set of fundamental Physics set by Werner Kweaizenberg and his Theory of Film-viewing Uncertainty.
...It is now known that the film-viewer does not necessarily record exactly what happened during the exact given moment - at best, the film-viewer is a recording which attempts to log the variables of the actual event, and recreates it into its own version reality in a small, simulated world which mimics the actual MA environment.
Therefore, when conflicting data is recorded due to lag issues, the very attempt to objectively log what had transpired, becomes screwed, and thus results in a mismatch between the actual event, and the re-enactment of the actual event in the film-viewer world.
Therefore, there is no certain way to exactly foresee, estimate, and confirm where the two individual planes A and B are in their different frontends at real time - the very act of recording the event holds a possibility that the recorded interpretation of the actual event may be wrong.
- Werner Kweaizenberg -
-
Well Now...............
In essence, the only turning off ALL collisions can solve the debate. And that ain't happening.
-
Well Now...............
In essence, the only turning off ALL collisions can solve the debate. And that ain't happening.
After poor Lusche has had to post his explanation 1 billion times, why the devil is there even a "debate" about it in the first place?
-
After poor Lusche has had to post his explanation 1 billion times, why the devil is there even a "debate" about it in the first place?
Mostly because there is always a new generation of players.
-
And no one else wants to listen to the link I posted. :)
-
How am I supposed to kill baduns without collisions?
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh473/cactuskooler/plane32L.jpg)
-
After poor Lusche has had to post his explanation 1 billion times, why the devil is there even a "debate" about it in the first place?
cause there can be. :D