Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: RaptorL on September 18, 2009, 12:45:06 PM

Title: Kamikaze
Post by: RaptorL on September 18, 2009, 12:45:06 PM
As the name implies i would like AH to add to the game for pilots the ability to crash their planes into the hard deck of enemy ships in special events scenarios such as the pacific campaigns. This would add an extra sense of realism to online play. I'm only asking for this to be implemented special events. Please comment and reply on this idea.(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/89/SL_Exp_5.jpg)(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/USS_Louisville_hit_by_kamikaze.jpg)(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/24/USS_Intrepid_CV-11_kamikaze_strike.jpg)(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/30/HMS_Victorious_on_fire.jpg)
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: Saxman on September 18, 2009, 01:10:08 PM
HELL NO
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: stroker71 on September 18, 2009, 01:21:08 PM
There are enough kamikaze dweebs in the game already...why reward them?  On second thought allow kamikaze sorties but only in 262's! :rock

DuHasst
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: RaptorL on September 18, 2009, 01:38:40 PM
I Said In Special Events Not In The Main Arena. And If I Remember Correctly You Don't Get Points In Special Events But Bragging Rights.
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: jimson on September 18, 2009, 01:55:51 PM
In special events? sure, why not? +1

In general, no.
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: Saxman on September 18, 2009, 01:59:24 PM
It doesn't even have a place in Special Events.
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: 100goon on September 18, 2009, 02:05:09 PM
It doesn't even have a place in Special Events.

actually sax, it does, there were real mission setup for those pilots, escorted by other zero's with longer range drops, so it would and it would gimmie { and the rest of the claim jumpers } and easy target :)
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: LLogann on September 18, 2009, 02:07:29 PM
Not to mention the fact that we already have kamikaze ability. 

New Jug driver's are always auguring after the release anyways.  The bomb explodes and you're dead.

That is close enough.
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: 100goon on September 18, 2009, 02:12:13 PM
put llogan, for the SE the jugs didnt kam. the zeros did and they didnt dive from 15068394785958598587498347859 8587k and reach mach 7 on the way down  :rofl the japs came in low, maybe 1k max then if they came in from the front or the back dove onto the flight ptherwise they aimed for the conning tower, then dove onto the deck and they didnt release bombs they just impacted
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: Saxman on September 18, 2009, 02:36:41 PM
If they were to implement Kamikaze attacks in FSO you can bet that any squad assigned such a mission is going to raise hell about it. It's frustrating enough getting a suicidal assignment or being slaughtered 15 minutes into the frame. Being assigned specifically to a one-way trip in a single-life event is only going to piss people off.

Kamikaze attacks have NO place in scenarios.
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: Noir on September 18, 2009, 02:51:56 PM
long time we didn't get that wish. NO
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: StokesAk on September 18, 2009, 03:01:16 PM
FSO would suck.
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: Westy on September 18, 2009, 03:01:50 PM
 YES!


 It'd be effing shrecking AWESOME!!

 As long as every time you kamikaze anything and go all "blowed up" your account
(debit or credit card) is charged $25  and sent automatically to HTC or a charity of
your own choosing.
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: AWwrgwy on September 18, 2009, 03:07:43 PM
If implemented in a scenario it should come at so great a scoring penalty as to make it an option that should not be exercised.

wrongway
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: RaptorL on September 18, 2009, 03:24:17 PM
Quote
If implemented in a scenario it should come at so great a scoring penalty as to make it an option that should not be exercised.

wrongway
Special Events Doesn't give you point nor does it subtract points for maneuvers. There would be no penalty for kamikaze attacks in special events. and if it does piss people off they die and couldn't fly again for the remainder of fso then maybe the could get a 2nd life or something, but i doubt it. Also just knowing you scored major damage from your kamikaze attack would perk those pilots up.
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: AWwrgwy on September 18, 2009, 03:27:39 PM
Special Events Dosent give you point nor does it subtract points for maneuvers. There would be no penalty for kamikaze attacks in special events. and if it does piss people off they die and could'nt fly again for the remainder of fso then maybe the could get a 2nd life or somthing, but i dout it. Also just knowing you scored major damage from your kamakaze attack would perk those pilots up.

I was thinking along the lines of "criteria for victory" where a kamakazi would be a negative.


wrongway
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: RaptorL on September 18, 2009, 03:41:26 PM
Quote
I was thinking along the lines of "criteria for victory" where a kamikaze would be a negative.


I see what your getting at AWwrgwy. But you would also have to factor in the number of damage that pilot did on an nme ship when he did a kamikaze to how many kamikaze's were shot down or missed the target. The pilots who failed and miss the target the country receives a reduction in the score, those who did hit the ship, their damage assessment would count 1/2 of total score of say a dive bomber who hit the same number of targets as the kamikaze.
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: Plazus on September 18, 2009, 03:42:37 PM
HELL NO

HELL YES
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: guncrasher on September 18, 2009, 05:41:26 PM
man i was gonna participate in an fso, changed my mind if i wanna hear people complaining about points i'll stay in the regular arenas.

semp
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: LLogann on September 18, 2009, 05:49:30 PM
From a 2 monther that doesn't even fly in FSO?

Special Events Doesn't give you point nor does it subtract points for maneuvers. There would be no penalty for kamikaze attacks in special events. and if it does piss people off they die and couldn't fly again for the remainder of fso then maybe the could get a 2nd life or something, but i doubt it. Also just knowing you scored major damage from your kamikaze attack would perk those pilots up.
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: RaptorL on September 18, 2009, 07:07:46 PM
what?
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: LLogann on September 18, 2009, 07:37:26 PM
No, I'm asking, that's all.  Current FSO rules have may not regard lands or deaths, but amongst squads, it plays a much larger role.  Something to hold in high regard by most. 

what?
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: RaptorL on September 18, 2009, 11:11:19 PM
ah ok
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: AWwrgwy on September 19, 2009, 12:14:31 AM
man i was gonna participate in an fso, changed my mind if i wanna hear people complaining about points i'll stay in the regular arenas.

semp

Not so much "points" as "objectives", I guess.

wrongway
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: guncrasher on September 19, 2009, 02:32:26 AM
Not so much "points" as "objectives", I guess.

wrongway


So now the point is to win the objective.  call it whatever you want, still whining about points/objectives.

semp
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: RTHolmes on September 19, 2009, 07:19:11 AM
Special Events Doesn't give you point nor does it subtract points for maneuvers. There would be no penalty for kamikaze attacks in special events. and if it does piss people off they die and couldn't fly again for the remainder of fso then maybe the could get a 2nd life or something, but i doubt it. Also just knowing you scored major damage from your kamikaze attack would perk those pilots up.

man i was gonna participate in an fso, changed my mind if i wanna hear people complaining about points i'll stay in the regular arenas.

So now the point is to win the objective.  call it whatever you want, still whining about points/objectives.

dont think you're getting it. events have criteria for victory, usually points based (so many per bomber destroyed, so many for ground targets destroyed etc.) individual player scores and furballer/landgrabber arguments are irrelevant here.
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: waystin2 on September 19, 2009, 10:53:16 AM
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm134/waystin2/nope_logo2.gif)
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: guncrasher on September 19, 2009, 02:04:36 PM
If implemented in a scenario it should come at so great a scoring penalty as to make it an option that should not be exercised.

wrongway

Special Events Doesn't give you point nor does it subtract points for maneuvers. There would be no penalty for kamikaze attacks in special events. and if it does piss people off they die and couldn't fly again for the remainder of fso then maybe the could get a 2nd life or something, but i doubt it. Also just knowing you scored major damage from your kamikaze attack would perk those pilots up.

I see what your getting at AWwrgwy. But you would also have to factor in the number of damage that pilot did on an nme ship when he did a kamikaze to how many kamikaze's were shot down or missed the target. The pilots who failed and miss the target the country receives a reduction in the score, those who did hit the ship, their damage assessment would count 1/2 of total score of say a dive bomber who hit the same number of targets as the kamikaze.

my bad I thought some were whining (not necessarily the one's quoted) about scoring or the affect on scoring
.

semp

Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: RaptorL on September 23, 2009, 12:41:55 PM
With statistics aside, the point is that having Kamikaze in special events will change game play and add more historical value to the game. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5slCTLrFHI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5slCTLrFHI)
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: Saxman on September 23, 2009, 01:35:11 PM
Quote
having Kamikaze in special events will change game play...

This part is true.

Quote
...and add more historical value to the game.

This is NOT.

All you'll end up with the same sort of bomb-and-bail suicide Lancstuka mentality that gets so many complaints in the Mains. Magnify that by now their suicide planes actually cause damage. Part of the point of Special Events is that you're TRYING to survive to land again. Kamikazes have NO PLACE WHAT...SO...EVER.

And if you want to go uselessly ram yourself into a target go right ahead. No one is stopping you.
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: RaptorL on September 23, 2009, 02:16:16 PM
Saxman, as the U.S. started moving in closer on the Japanese homeland, and with the lost of many vetran pilots the Japanese became desperate and committed its pilots to one way missions to destroy U.S. ships. How is this not relevant to Historical Game Play? The idea of Historical Game play is to have it as real and accurate to history. Not having it in special events leaves a big gap in the battle of the pacific.
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: Saxman on September 23, 2009, 02:27:57 PM
No. The lack of significant aircraft utilized by the Japanese leaves big gaps in PTO setups. The Ki-43 and G4M were used in virtually every campaign from the beginning of the war until its end, and yet we don't have them. They are a SIGNIFICANT order of magnitude more important to completing the PTO environment than Kamikazes would be.

For that matter, even DURING the war, the Kamikaze was largely just a footnote, and a VERY small part of the overall air war.

Special events and FSO are NOT designed to be perfect living history events. They're designed to balance history with PLAYABILITY. And Kamikazes would NOT be enjoyable gameplay for either the Kamikaze themselves, or the players expected to defend agaisnt them (think about how fun it is to defend against suicide pork runners in the Mains. Now multiply that by entire squads doing it).

Have you ever even FLOWN in FSO, a scenario or snapshot?
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: RaptorL on September 23, 2009, 02:56:20 PM
Yes I have flown in FSO and Snap Shot. I'm with the LCA Renegades. No need to be judgemental. I would like to hear from other people about the idea if it's all the same to you Saxman.
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: RaptorL on September 23, 2009, 04:24:42 PM
I agree with you Saxman that new planes take a top priority over this idea, and I'm not saying to have this idea to be the focus of Aces High techs to implament this first I'm just saying I would like this option.
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: mechanic on September 23, 2009, 04:43:40 PM
If they were to implement Kamikaze attacks in FSO you can bet that any squad assigned such a mission is going to raise hell about it. It's frustrating enough getting a suicidal assignment or being slaughtered 15 minutes into the frame. Being assigned specifically to a one-way trip in a single-life event is only going to piss people off.

Kamikaze attacks have NO place in scenarios.

Bingo!

I think this is the best answer so far. Who would want to devote a weekend evening to suicide bombing? Also it would be unkind to constantly remind people of the futile desperation of war. We don't have concentration camps, we don't have sickness, we don't really lose our legs in a bad auger, we don't really see our friends killed beside us. It's a game and should inspire the  romantic notion of air-air combat not the horror of total war.

just my 2c.
S!
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: RaptorL on September 23, 2009, 07:15:46 PM
lol. Ok I give.
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: RipChord929 on September 23, 2009, 07:45:16 PM
LOL, overall IMO, I really don't think Kamikazi would be a really great addition..

But, an interesting thought rumbled around as I was reading... Say, if we get the G4M, that It could carry an OHKA.... The Bakka would carry a 24hr penalty... No flight for 24hs for the OHKA pilot.... If a defending fighter shoots down the combo, they get 2 kills... The bakka pilot would be subject to the penalty as soon as he entered the cockpit, irregardless of the sorties outcome...

If I wasn't going to play again till the next day, I'd end my flying session with a "BANG"!!!! LOL!!!

RC
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv226/RipChord929/G4Mbakax800.jpg)
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: jimson on September 23, 2009, 07:47:32 PM
How many times a year we gonna have a 1945 navy based, pacific scenario where Kamakazi would even be appropriate? Just a few I bet.

Fighting through flak and fighters to hit a ship deck might be kind of fun and challenging.
 
Preventing them from the other side might be fun too.

Here is how it could be done. Ask for volunteers from the squads who are assigned Axis that week.

As infrequent as such a scenario would be, I'd bet you would get the volunteers.

I still say +1
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: RaptorL on September 24, 2009, 09:12:11 PM
Quote
Here is how it could be done. Ask for volunteers from the squads who are assigned Axis that week.

As infrequent as such a scenario would be, I'd bet you would get the volunteers.

I still say +1

I like the idea jimson. It makes more sense to ask for volunteers than it is to assign a squad the task. And I think this will please Saxman's fiery, and save me from his god like wrath. Comments on the idea people?
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: Saxman on September 24, 2009, 09:54:12 PM
Most people in FSO already don't like to fly even HALF an hour to target only to get wiped out as soon as they get there because someone screwed up, or they got swamped by the CAP, or caught a sector out from the target. I HIGHLY doubt you're going to get anyone to volunteer to end their night early on purpose.
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: guncrasher on September 25, 2009, 12:00:23 AM
why not just make the scenario the sinking of the cv, with kamikaze pilots, planes that defend the kamikaze pilots and gunners on the cv that would be fun.  to make it fair randomly assign all positions.  I would join one like that.  the kamikaze pilots dying while diving is not different than yesterday when I saw 5 or 6 109's and 190's die in 30 seconds after flying around for 1/2 hour.

semp
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: Delirium on September 25, 2009, 01:30:28 AM
There was one event in AH where they did have kamakazi pilots. Sadly, instead of the historical number striking the fleet, 99% got through because the skill level was much higher than they were historically. It didn't make the event any more enjoyable and really took away from the event as whole.
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: guncrasher on September 25, 2009, 05:01:17 PM
There was one event in AH where they did have kamakazi pilots. Sadly, instead of the historical number striking the fleet, 99% got through because the skill level was much higher than they were historically. It didn't make the event any more enjoyable and really took away from the event as whole.

easy fix, let us noobs be the kamakazi pilots  :).  I am game for that.

semp
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: Theirish61 on September 26, 2009, 04:29:19 PM
-1
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: Lye-El on September 27, 2009, 12:18:20 PM
why not just make the scenario the sinking of the cv, with kamikaze pilots, planes that defend the kamikaze pilots and gunners on the cv that would be fun. 

We would need much bigger fleets than one CV, one Cruiser and a couple of tin cans with a lot more guns per ship for realism. It's supposed to be suicidal for the pilot after all. 
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: 100goon on September 27, 2009, 04:35:36 PM
If they were to implement Kamikaze attacks in FSO you can bet that any squad assigned such a mission is going to raise hell about it. It's frustrating enough getting a suicidal assignment or being slaughtered 15 minutes into the frame. Being assigned specifically to a one-way trip in a single-life event is only going to piss people off.

Kamikaze attacks have NO place in scenarios.


not all fso's are one life, well they are but, one of the more recent ones, the betty's had 2 lifes, give 1 squad kam duty, then but them in somen else at t+60-T+70
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: Speed55 on September 27, 2009, 05:19:51 PM
Well, if it were 25 to 75 (maybe non returnable)  bomber perks to allow zekes to do a set amount of damage to objects would it have a major negative impact on the game?

It might be fun to have a different type of mission to join or defend against.

The zekes need are a major plane that needs to be remodeled anyway, so maybe they could add the kamikaze to the perked ord system somehow. 

I'm not saying it's a priority, don't get me wrong, but the idea should be kept on the back burner.
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: Raptor on September 27, 2009, 08:48:39 PM
They already have kamikazi's, just drop bombs 2 seconds from impact and voila
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: 100goon on September 27, 2009, 09:53:48 PM
but see then only the bombs do damage, they want the planes and fuel load to be taken into account
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: Saxman on September 27, 2009, 10:05:13 PM
Which is exactly why it shouldn't. Enough guys already bomb and bail. This will just exacerbate the problem.
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: 100goon on September 27, 2009, 10:06:45 PM
heres what i say, in sea where needed alow { i think i mis spelt that } it but in ma no
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: Saxman on September 27, 2009, 10:11:05 PM
And again, there's nowhere in SEA it's legitimately needed anyway, so there's NO POINT TO IT.
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: 100goon on September 27, 2009, 10:13:19 PM
quadalcanal?marianas turkey shoot? weve done these and others before, but  the kam. was a keep componet in the japanese aresnal. just like project aphordite wouldve if it didnt get scraped by the us
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: Squire on September 27, 2009, 10:47:16 PM
I would like much more to see a G4M Betty and a Ki-43 than any Kamikaze plane, and I design FSOs. In any case HTC will never model it. I guarantee you that, but hey its a "wishlist" forum. 
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: Saxman on September 27, 2009, 11:57:02 PM
quadalcanal?marianas turkey shoot? weve done these and others before, but  the kam. was a keep componet in the japanese aresnal. just like project aphordite wouldve if it didnt get scraped by the us

The kamikaze was ONE component that featured into a handful of battles at the very end of the war. There were no organized kamikazes at Guadalcanal or the Turkey Shoot. There were only about 4000 individual kamikaze aircraft flown throughout the war TOTAL, an insignificant FRACTION of the total number of conventional sorties flown by Japanese aircraft throughout the war. A significant percentage of them were blasted out of the air by air defenses before they even got in spitting distance of their targets.

There is NO PLACE for kamikazes in the game. Anywhere. Period. It was a small and insignificant part of the war whose actual significance has been GROSSLY OVER-EXAGGERATED by the media.
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: RaptorL on September 28, 2009, 05:33:07 PM
eh. Whatever its a wish idea that i thought was interesting. And thanks for the soft blow Squire.
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: OOZ662 on September 28, 2009, 05:45:41 PM
They already have kamikazi's, just drop bombs 2 seconds from impact and voila

Not unless you're traveling 1000 feet in two seconds...and even then, you'll probably miss.

-1 on this idea, as well.
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: guncrasher on September 30, 2009, 02:13:59 AM


There is NO PLACE for kamikazes in the game. Anywhere. Period. It was a small and insignificant part of the war whose actual significance has been GROSSLY OVER-EXAGGERATED by the media.

I don't think there was a liberal media back then.  I had 2 grandpas that fought in the pacific.  one in a destroyer and one as a pilot. they both saw the raids first hand and I dont think it was an exaggeration.  4k planes is also not an insignificant amount, 4k lancasters were destroyed in the war, not the same but still.

only reason they failed was due to the fact that most pilots could barely fly and they used mostly obsolete planes, not saying that the navy didnt do its best to help them get their permanent wings.   


semp
Title: Re: Kamikaze
Post by: RaptorL on October 08, 2009, 12:29:32 PM
I don't think there was a liberal media back then.  I had 2 grandpas that fought in the pacific.  one in a destroyer and one as a pilot. they both saw the raids first hand and I dont think it was an exaggeration.  4k planes is also not an insignificant amount, 4k lancasters were destroyed in the war, not the same but still.

only reason they failed was due to the fact that most pilots could barely fly and they used mostly obsolete planes, not saying that the navy didnt do its best to help them get their permanent wings.  


semp

I like your post. So hears the idea put together from all the other inputs. The ability to perform a Kamikaze attack will only be implemented in FSO, or Snap Shots. Their will be a tech nition, or a high ranking gamer or whoever in charge of putting together the Kamikaze squad by sending out messages in the arena for volunteer's from the country playing as the Japanese. Those who volunteer will not be able to play the game until tomorrow. <--- (optional) The point of the target hit will counted half of its usual value. And I draw a blank on what else could be done. Thoughts or comments?

And remember, This doesn't have to be put in first. This is just an idea that can be put in later.