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General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Shamrock on September 18, 2009, 03:07:07 PM

Title: P-80A Shooting Star
Post by: Shamrock on September 18, 2009, 03:07:07 PM
The P-80 A was americas first operational jet engine fighter. it was made to deal with the ME-262's. it was basicly designed like the ME-262 but had 6 50 cals on the nose...3 on each side please look into this plane.
Title: Re: P-80A Shooting Star
Post by: StokesAk on September 18, 2009, 03:07:41 PM
you wish you could be stealth. :lol
Title: Re: P-80A Shooting Star
Post by: Saxman on September 18, 2009, 03:09:57 PM
Never saw combat. Sorry.
Title: Re: P-80A Shooting Star
Post by: stroker71 on September 18, 2009, 03:10:10 PM
Your bait is dead!
Title: Re: P-80A Shooting Star
Post by: AWwrgwy on September 18, 2009, 03:10:56 PM
2 YP-80's flew sorties in Italy, briefly.


wrongway
Title: Re: P-80A Shooting Star
Post by: Rino on September 18, 2009, 04:16:29 PM
Never saw combat. Sorry.

Saw plenty in Korea  :lol
Title: Re: P-80A Shooting Star
Post by: Spikes on September 18, 2009, 04:47:07 PM
stealth had a daughter.
Title: Re: P-80A Shooting Star
Post by: Noir on September 18, 2009, 04:52:31 PM
will that guy stop flooding the BBS ?
Title: Re: P-80A Shooting Star
Post by: Jayhawk on September 18, 2009, 05:44:56 PM
you wish you could be stealth. :lol

 :lol  :x  :lol
Title: Re: P-80A Shooting Star
Post by: LLogann on September 18, 2009, 05:47:16 PM
Rephrase that.............  2 prototype's saw brief action in Italy.    :D

2 YP-80's flew sorties in Italy, briefly.


wrongway
Title: Re: P-80A Shooting Star
Post by: TwinTail on September 18, 2009, 06:23:23 PM
How exactly was is based upon the Me262?

1. It had 1 engine, not 2

2. It had a bubble canopy

3. It did not have swept wings

similarities?
Title: Re: P-80A Shooting Star
Post by: stroker71 on September 18, 2009, 09:07:16 PM
How exactly was is based upon the Me262?

1. It had 1 engine, not 2

2. It had a bubble canopy

3. It did not have swept wings

similarities?

Well duh they both have wings...sometimes I wonder :rolleyes:
Title: Re: P-80A Shooting Star
Post by: Enker on September 18, 2009, 11:12:29 PM
Wish granted. Here you go:
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc88/emre-gs/ziorwl-1.jpg)
Title: Re: P-80A Shooting Star
Post by: AWwrgwy on September 18, 2009, 11:42:06 PM
Rephrase that.............  2 prototype's saw brief action in Italy.    :D


That's what I said.

  :D


Boo.  The websight with the story is 404 =(
Title: Re: P-80A Shooting Star
Post by: ACE on September 19, 2009, 07:58:32 AM
6 50's would suck in a jet fighter.... closure rate is to fast. That's why the 262 has 30mm's
 
Title: Re: P-80A Shooting Star
Post by: ghostdancer on September 19, 2009, 08:33:53 AM
The F-86 Sabre, which saw lots of action in Korea, had 6 x .50s. So I wouldn't say that 6 .50s suck on a jet or prove ineffective on a jet.
Title: Re: P-80A Shooting Star
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on September 19, 2009, 09:37:28 AM
6 50's would suck in a jet fighter.... closure rate is to fast. That's why the 262 has 30mm's
 

Actually, the higher rate of fire of the Browning M2 and M3 50BMG is an advantage over the slower cannons in high speed attacks. And as posted above, the F-86 Sabre, equipped with 6 Browning 50's did very well against cannon equipped MiG's in Korea.
Title: Re: P-80A Shooting Star
Post by: Enker on September 19, 2009, 02:57:20 PM
Actually, the higher rate of fire of the Browning M2 and M3 50BMG is an advantage over the slower cannons in high speed attacks. And as posted above, the F-86 Sabre, equipped with 6 Browning 50's did very well against cannon equipped MiG's in Korea.
Agreed, although in the book Sabres Over Mig Alley: The F-86 and The Battle for Air Superiority in Korea, by Kenneth P. Warrell, it speaks of the downside to having 6 .50s on the F-86 as being that the incendiary rounds did not ignite properly above 35k-ish feet, and thus were merely lead slamming into the Migs and not doing very major damage. That is why there were attempts to see if it were possible to mount the Sabre with four twenty millimeter cannons. Unfortunately, this project was cancelled due to the excess gun exhaust clogging and killing the engine with *no way to restart it.

*The part after the asterisk might not be true, just working mostly from memory here.
Title: Re: P-80A Shooting Star
Post by: B4Buster on September 19, 2009, 03:02:09 PM
Has the OP ever seen a P-80??
Title: Re: P-80A Shooting Star
Post by: Dream Child on September 19, 2009, 09:27:50 PM
6 50's would suck in a jet fighter.... closure rate is to fast. That's why the 262 has 30mm's
 

The 30mm's the 262 used were really terrible guns to try to hit anything with in real life. Due to the low velocity of the round, they had something like 50 foot of drop at 800 yards, compared to approximately 16 foot of drop for the .50 BMG at the same distance. Muzzle velocity was 1600 fps compared to just under 3000 fps for the .50 BMG. The velocity, or really the lack of velocity, of those 30mm shells made it hard to lead a comparable fighter aircraft. When the USAF did upgrade, it went with 20mm cannon that had good velocity (think Hispano), not some low velocity piece of garbage.
Title: Re: P-80A Shooting Star
Post by: Dream Child on September 19, 2009, 09:34:06 PM
Agreed, although in the book Sabres Over Mig Alley: The F-86 and The Battle for Air Superiority in Korea, by Kenneth P. Warrell, it speaks of the downside to having 6 .50s on the F-86 as being that the incendiary rounds did not ignite properly above 35k-ish feet, and thus were merely lead slamming into the Migs and not doing very major damage. That is why there were attempts to see if it were possible to mount the Sabre with four twenty millimeter cannons. Unfortunately, this project was cancelled due to the excess gun exhaust clogging and killing the engine with *no way to restart it.

*The part after the asterisk might not be true, just working mostly from memory here.

This can't be quite right. The guns on a F-86 sit outside and way behind the jet air intake. There must be something else missing here.
Title: Re: P-80A Shooting Star
Post by: Rino on September 20, 2009, 08:24:08 AM
     The Canadians used F-86s with 4 20mm, and I believe a slightly
more powerful engine.

(http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/v2/equip/resrc/images/hst/l-g/sabr1.jpg)

Title: Re: P-80A Shooting Star
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on September 20, 2009, 08:49:04 AM
That bird has the gun ports for the 6 50BMG gun package.
Title: Re: P-80A Shooting Star
Post by: Shifty on September 20, 2009, 08:56:28 AM
6 50's would suck in a jet fighter.... closure rate is to fast. That's why the 262 has 30mm's
 

Jebus  :lol
Title: Re: P-80A Shooting Star
Post by: Shifty on September 20, 2009, 10:48:59 AM
Has the OP ever seen a P-80??

Just curious what you meant by this question. Are you saying the looks of the aircraft make a difference on it's combat performance?

(http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/URG/images/p80shootingstar-a.jpg)

Just my opinion... The P-80 was a beautiful bird and would have accounted well for herself in combat against the ME-262.
Title: Re: P-80A Shooting Star
Post by: Dream Child on September 20, 2009, 04:29:35 PM
Just curious what you meant by this question. Are you saying the looks of the aircraft make a difference on it's combat performance?


I think he's asking the person who originated this thread what he meant when he said "...it was basically designed like the ME-262 but had 6 50 cals on the nose..." While the performance was similar, the design isn't.
Title: Re: P-80A Shooting Star
Post by: Shifty on September 20, 2009, 05:41:09 PM
I think he's asking the person who originated this thread what he meant when he said "...it was basically designed like the ME-262 but had 6 50 cals on the nose..." While the performance was similar, the design isn't.

Ahh that explains it.  After Ace's comment on 50 cals nit working in jets I kind of forgot about the OP's comments.
Thanks
Title: Re: P-80A Shooting Star
Post by: Dantoo on September 21, 2009, 08:44:22 AM
Adding to the hijack - the Australian version of the Sabre was equipped with 2 30mm Aden guns.  The gases from the cannon caused compressor stalls in the Avon engines that were fitted to this model.  The problem was overcome by redesign.

(http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/images/ca26170704bg_31.jpg)