Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Baumer on September 19, 2009, 11:23:32 PM
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And now my head hurts! I love the new PT Boat but, I HATE trig! :mad: If any of you squeakers, ever need a reason to study trigonometry look at the torpedo solution problem below. Then be thankful you have a calculator.
(http://332nd.org/dogs/baumer/Stuff/ManeuveringBoardSmall.jpg)
This is from the book; "Navigation and Nautical Astronomy" by CDR. Benjamin Dutton Ninth Edition, 1948 (used at the Naval Academy to teach navigation). This is how they figured out how to get into position to fire torpedoes. Imagine trying to do this on a PT boat with a slide-rule and pencil! If you do all the math that's described with this problem, it actually can tell you all position information (like where to intercept the target, and time required to get there) needed for a torpedo solution. The US subs and ships had TDC's but the PT's had to do this with good old pencil and paper. Time for another drink, <S>
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:D
I use pencil and prayper.
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You want realism?
:noid
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Makes me wonder what torpedo bombers had to use... :D
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Doesn't look a whole lot different for the basic navigation
(http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/46c315c116f8fadc_landing)
This link has a larger image,
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=navy+plane+source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dnavy%2Bplane%2Bsource:life%26ndsp%3D21%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN%26start%3D63&imgurl=46c315c116f8fadc (http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=navy+plane+source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dnavy%2Bplane%2Bsource:life%26ndsp%3D21%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN%26start%3D63&imgurl=46c315c116f8fadc)
But the actual torpedo sight looked like this;
(http://332nd.org/dogs/baumer/HistoricalImages/B-25TorpDirector.jpg)
This image is from the B-25 manual, and it states that it's the torpedo director from a TBM.
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Oooh! Can we have a that for the TBM, HTC? PLEEEEEEEASE? :pray
Ok, I don't fly torpedo runs much anyway, but I might be more inclined if we had the hardware. :D
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Notice the last diagram has a B25 silhouette on it. Now go into the game, up a B25, and look on the instrument panel just behind the yoke, down to the right a bit. See the torpedo indicator lights? Yeah.....wheres my torpedo for my B25s!
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nice charts Baumer
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Notice the last diagram has a B25 silhouette on it. Now go into the game, up a B25, and look on the instrument panel just behind the yoke, down to the right a bit. See the torpedo indicator lights? Yeah.....wheres my torpedo for my B25s!
Redesigned core game systems to quadruple the number of weapon hardpoints and damage items for future development and expansion.
:)
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lol too much math
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Hmmm..... I always enjoyed trig. It comes in real handy too. :aok
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God i have to take trig in 12th grade.
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Cool stuff Baumer. :)
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God i have to take trig in 12th grade.
You won't get into anything detailed like this. Memorize the side lengths used in sine, cosine, and tangent calculations and you will probably be fine. Helped me to remember that "things don't make sense," i.e. secant is the reciprocal of cosine and cosecant is the inverse of sine. :D
That is, unless I forgot already. :rofl
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Makes me wonder what torpedo bombers had to use... :D
They used a torp sight, and prayer. The japs finally got so pissed they came up with a piloted version of the V1.
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They used a torp sight, and prayer. The japs finally got so pissed they came up with a piloted version of the V1.
The Japanese had excellant torpedoes, the Long Lance, and they were devastating in the Pacific war. The Ohka (I think) your talking about had nothing to do with torpedoes although it was rocket powered and piloted.
(http://sm-a1.yimg.com/image/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F7%2F73%2FJapanese_Ohka_rocket_plane.jpg%2F300px-Japanese_Ohka_rocket_plane.jpg&t=1253475344&ttl=43200&sig=jE2TwpiebWwDaU1FA6UTZQ--~B)
The Americans had terrible torpedos to begin the war, and no amount of trigonometry in the world could help a torpedo that didnt go straight or even explode 80% of the time. Thank God for dive bombers!!
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no amount of trigonometry in the world could help a torpedo that didnt go straight or even explode 80% of the time.
They went straight just fine, but almost perfectly 10" deeper than they were supposed to. The magnetic detonators exploded just fine, just not usually anywhere near a ship. The impact detonators tended to bend instead of pushing back onto the explosion trigger.
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StrokesAk,
Don't worry Trig is actually pretty straight forward and very useful. I've just forgotten most of it, unfortunately (20 years since High School). I just thought it was funny that 20 years later I'm playing a game that actually got me digging through old books and doing math again! :)
It's funny how those dang story problems turn up in the oddest places!
This is all you need to find the lead angle to shoot the torpedo (for a 90 degree beam attack), provided you know y and x.
y = how far the CV will move in 4 minutes (the PT torpedoes run for 4 minutes then disappear)
x = how far the torpedo will move in 4 minutes
(http://www.coolmath.com/reference/images/dictionary-tangent.gif)
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The Japanese had excellant torpedoes, the Long Lance, and they were devastating in the Pacific war. The Ohka (I think) your talking about had nothing to do with torpedoes although it was rocket powered and piloted.
(http://sm-a1.yimg.com/image/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F7%2F73%2FJapanese_Ohka_rocket_plane.jpg%2F300px-Japanese_Ohka_rocket_plane.jpg&t=1253475344&ttl=43200&sig=jE2TwpiebWwDaU1FA6UTZQ--~B)
The Americans had terrible torpedos to begin the war, and no amount of trigonometry in the world could help a torpedo that didnt go straight or even explode 80% of the time. Thank God for dive bombers!!
It was a joke. I know it was a piloted missle pretty much. I just thought it would be funny.
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It was a joke. I know it was a piloted missle pretty much. I just thought it would be funny.
and I was trying to look smart. :huh
not as easy as it looks :x
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StrokesAk,
Don't worry Trig is actually pretty straight forward and very useful. I've just forgotten most of it, unfortunately (20 years since High School). I just thought it was funny that 20 years later I'm playing a game that actually got me digging through old books and doing math again! :)
It's funny how those dang story problems turn up in the oddest places!
This is all you need to find the lead angle to shoot the torpedo (for a 90 degree beam attack), provided you know y and x.
y = how far the CV will move in 4 minutes (the PT torpedoes run for 4 minutes then disappear)
x = how far the torpedo will move in 4 minutes
(http://www.coolmath.com/reference/images/dictionary-tangent.gif)
I know that stuff, we did that in the 8th grade, still have to take trig.
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I know what stuff, we did that in the 8th grade, still have to take trig.
Well, you're lucky, because that's trig in a nutshell. :)
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Is there a Calculus 2?
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Well, you're lucky, because that's trig in a nutshell. :)
Yea if i dont get it ill just ask
"How will this help us in real life" and my teacher will spend 15 minutes telling me something that has a slim chance of happening to me.
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:lol I've always loved that excuse. Mathematics do provide a deeper understanding of other things, especially sciences like physics. Even if you don't remember the formulas, the concepts stay with you.
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Algebra and some Geomertry is the only thing i find remotly helpful.....although i want to be an areospace engineer.
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Oh LORD, then you actually will need to remember much of it. And much, much more.
If math isn't your thing, that path isn't a very good choice, I think.
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Math is my thing im in Algebra 2, class is great teacher is awesome, but having a bunch of junoirs in your class can be intimidating when your only a fresman.
Also im IN
Thread hijacked by myself.
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Yea if i dont get it ill just ask
"How will this help us in real life" and my teacher will spend 15 minutes telling me something that has a slim chance of happening to me.
You know...I do the same thing in my DUAL Credit English class. And, to top it off, my teacher rambles on for 30 minutes or more!
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Math is my thing im in Algebra 2, class is great teacher is awesome, but having a bunch of junoirs in your class can be intimidating when your only a fresman.
I dunno about where you live, but up here it didn't make much difference. :) My ex took trig in 8th grade and finished out in a second year of AP Calculus. She was in a senior class as a sophomore and took two math classes a year.
EDIT: Although, I guess maybe being a hot girl made it harder for the others to pick at her about it. :rofl
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You know...I do the same thing in my DUAL Credit English class. And, to top it off, my teacher rambles on for 30 minutes or more!
Last year my english teacher would do thta cept u didnt have to do anything.
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We get away with doing basically nothing anyway, but somehow I'm struggling to keep an A...for the first time in my life lol
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It was a joke. I know it was a piloted missle pretty much. I just thought it would be funny.
:confused:
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:confused:
Yeah...I left that one alone.
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and I was trying to look smart. :huh
not as easy as it looks :x
Nope.
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The board is actually pretty easy once you get the hang of it. It is called a "Mo Board" short for manuvering board. We used them all the time in the Navy to calculate CPA's (closest points of approach), winds (true and actual) and speed of the target. The key is the scale at the bottom where the "X" is marked across on the speed and time lines. All the marks on the board are marks of estimated target position. Obviously with own ships position in the center. Real fun keeping track when you start manuvering and changing speeds. The Navy STILL uses these as a backup to all the new fandangled computers. It is a requirement to use the mo board to qualify Officer of the Deck. Computers are great but nice to have the back up when it goes belly up due to damage of some type.
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You twits probably can't even spell "trig"- might I suggest "Fries R Dun 101" instead.
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You twits probably can't even spell "trig"- might I suggest "Fries R Dun 101" instead.
What exactly made that called for?
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You twits probably can't even spell "trig"- might I suggest "Fries R Dun 101" instead.
Uh-oh! Sounds like somebody's got a case of the Mondays!
(http://blog.blacklabelskates.com/wp-photos/20080630-092952-1.jpg)
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Hell
I WANT a relative-course and range finder! All the rest is known, long as the cv don't turn...
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Algebra and some Geomertry is the only thing i find remotly helpful.....although i want to be an areospace engineer.
Which part of Trigonometry is NOT geometry?
FYI, the world is made out of triangles.
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(http://healthyinfluence.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/solvex.jpg)
Got it!
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lol.
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Baum,
the title should have been HTC trigged me!
:salute
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You twits probably can't even spell "trig"- might I suggest "Fries R Dun 101" instead.
If he keeps it up then IN.
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Triganomitry.
did i get it right?
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Looks like it. But don't quote me, I didn't major in english.
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In actual practice many torp attacks vs ships on the high seas were done at minimal ranges, since the ships were free to manuever. You got in close and released at a few hundred yards out, just long enough for the torp to arm and get going at proper depth. Otherwise the PK was rather low, especially with AAA and maybe fighters around. I doubt too many torp crews were fying nice and straight doing math as the sky erupted in fire and smoke from the shrapnel of the picket ships.
Vs ships in harbor, it was just a matter of a proper release, didnt require any special calcs, ie Taranto, Pearl Harbor, and other raids done vs merchant vessels, ect, and of course Subs had TDCs, which greatly improved the practicality of lining up a target and engaging quickly, that and they had the time and cover to set up attacks, unlike a/c flying in low under fire.