Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Nemisis on September 20, 2009, 01:05:35 PM
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I noticed that the AHWiki page has almost NOTHING on it. I was wondering if anyone could provide me with some tactics and tricks I could pull with this. And if someone could tell me what this plane is good at.
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I would help ya out but I am cranky! lmao
DuHasst
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:lol
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I don't fly the Q version much, but I've become quite fond of the P-39D. I can tell you that it excels at being a paperweight.
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:noid :noid :noid
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I don't fly the Q version much, but I've become quite fond of the P-39D. I can tell you that it excels at being a paperweight.
You're pretty good in that paperweight.
Films?
wrongway
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I can dig around in the archives and see if I can find anything. I'll be the first to admit that I feel that most of the success that I've had in the 39D has been in furballs and getting targets of opportunity. Again I can't really speak for the 39Q but it seems that the 39D does OK if it can come into a fight near the top of the furball and work down, as long as you keep working downhill you can keep a reasonable amount of E which gives you some choices. Once you run out of alt it's time to bug out and try and get some back. Maneuvers tend to suck the energy out of that bird really quickly and it's very tough to get it back, that's why I think it can be effective in furballs because it's rare to string together more than a couple turns against most opponents. One versus one I've found the options in the P-39D to be very limited against most planes you come across in Late War.
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I fly the D for the most part...but,
The P39 is a very slow climbing bird but it dives very well, if you have the chance just BnZ. The 37mm is very hard to BnZ with and aim in general but you can always take 4 .50's. If you do get low and slow keep your SA high even though it has poor visiblity. When you are slow use flaps but do not bleed E such as using vertical manuvers. It has poor acceleration so you have to be able to commit to the fight before you enter it.
Basicly thats a very rough overview of it.
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OK. Anything that REALLY sucks the E out of it? Anything that it does fairly good at? And what type of planes would be a good match against it. I don't really want to comit to a fight agains a plane that is great in an area I'm uber weak in.
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OK. Anything that REALLY sucks the E out of it? Anything that it does fairly good at? And what type of planes would be a good match against it. I don't really want to comit to a fight agains a plane that is great in an area I'm uber weak in.
Yep, the wing pods. They add a lot of drag and weight for little effective gains. Also, combinded with the drag of the droptank, and even the empty center rack, the performence feel of the plane be crippled. So, always avoid the gunpods, and try to avoid the droptank too. Get decent with the tater and do some fuel management - the result is a clean 39Q with decent MA performance.
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OK. so just cowl guns, and the 37mm, no drop tank. What about the bomb, and is there any plane to really watch out for?
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OK. Anything that REALLY sucks the E out of it? Anything that it does fairly good at? And what type of planes would be a good match against it. I don't really want to comit to a fight agains a plane that is great in an area I'm uber weak in.
It does good, you just gotta know the nicks in it.
Depending on what you're doing, if you plan on LANDING the kills, you either gotta sneak up to 'em, or BnZ 'em. There was a time where I could get without a problem 3+ kills a P-39 sortie.
Dog fighting? Well, I've actually realized that the part of it bleeding E can be for your advantage. You make one turn, and the thing's almost OUT of E, so many pilots will get surprised (or, happy, and blow your bellybutton out of the sky), and blow right past you. You just have to get the overshoot right. (IIRC, chop throttle, hard right, then left rudder, and hard left, and go back right, and they should end up right in front of you.) If you're a good shot the 37 is a beast.
This is just all I can remember. I'm not all that active in the game much now.
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I noticed that the AHWiki page has almost NOTHING on it. I was wondering if anyone could provide me with some tactics and tricks I could pull with this. And if someone could tell me what this plane is good at.
as rarly as i've flown either of the 39's, the biggest thing i've noticed, is that they turn amazingly well on the deck.
if you can sucker the hi guy down low, and saddle up, as long as he doesn't try to extend, you should be ok.
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OK. so just cowl guns, and the 37mm, no drop tank. What about the bomb, and is there any plane to really watch out for?
- Spits
- F4Us
- F6Fs
- P-38s
- Ki84s
- N1Ks
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- Spits
- F4Us
- F6Fs
- P-38s
- Ki84s
- N1Ks
actually, i out turned a p38j in one. i;'ve flown against soulss in the past i think... and he has out turned my 38 o doom.
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OK, does anyone have approach alt, fight tactics, and exit, and all that crap down to a science? If so, could they post everything they found usefull, so I can copy/paste, and put it on a word document?
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OK, does anyone have approach alt, fight tactics, and exit, and all that crap down to a science? If so, could they post everything they found usefull, so I can copy/paste, and put it on a word document?
my exit is usually in a parachute, fishing for my reeses on the way down to bribe the mean cartoon troops with. :noid
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my exit is usually in a parachute, fishing for my reeses on the way down to bribe the mean cartoon troops with. :noid
hehehe, discovered my secret did you.
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actually, i out turned a p38j in one. i;'ve flown against soulss in the past i think... and he has out turned my 38 o doom.
I do not think thats a general trend. Once the P-38 can drop its flaps, it will wipe the floor with the 39 in a turning contest.
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OK, does anyone have approach alt, fight tactics, and exit, and all that crap down to a science? If so, could they post everything they found usefull, so I can copy/paste, and put it on a word document?
Okay, fly up to 10k (usually above the fight) dive down, 2 or 3 times, and never get below 8. If someone gets behind you, unless it's something with slower aileron movement, (P-38 for example, but even then, the pilot may be very good, so it might not help), but you can try a standard reverse. If not, then DIVE for the deck, and try the reverse with a lot of E.
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OK, thanks. Sounds like a good bird as long as you don't pull any stupid crap.
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OK, thanks. Sounds like a good bird as long as you don't pull any stupid crap.
doesn't that pretty much cover every plane in the set? :aok
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There are 24 P-39Q slots available in the next scenario. Come fly it in historical situations. :aok
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"- Spits
- F4Us
- F6Fs
- P-38s
- Ki84s
- N1Ks"
Will enagage any of those in a P-39Q, its competative if flown to its strengths.
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"- Spits
- F4Us
- F6Fs
- P-38s
- Ki84s
- N1Ks"
Will enagage any of those in a P-39Q, its competative if flown to its strengths.
again, that is generally any aircraft in our set. :aok
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"- Spits
- F4Us
- F6Fs
- P-38s
- Ki84s
- N1Ks"
Will enagage any of those in a P-39Q, its competative if flown to its strengths.
I dont see that the P39 has any exploitable strength against those planes. They will outdo the 39 in anything.
Well, against a Spit1/5 you can run... a Ki84 or Niki you will outdive if altitude permits it... but no chances if you engage in an offensive manner.
Of course, this is for a co-E situation, with similar pilot skill. I think that is what the OP has asked for.
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I dont see that the P39 has any exploitable strength against those planes. They will outdo the 39 in anything.
Well, against a Spit1/5 you can run... a Ki84 or Niki you will outdive if altitude permits it... but no chances if you engage in an offensive manner.
Of course, this is for a co-E situation, with similar pilot skill. I think that is what the OP has asked for.
but..you forget sir.......none of us here really flys our aircraft as they were intended.
soulss is much better in the 39 than he thinks he is. i've seen him in it. i've seen others too..........
me....i used it, and tried rich's vertical attacks on gv's last night. it worked quite well.
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Cant manuever against any of them? can just run??? well, that has not been my experience in it, the Spit XVI is a bear close in, as we all know, the rest? no problem. I certainly see no big threat from a Ki-84 or a N1K2, you should stand a decent chance vs them in a "even" fight, and im nowhwere near as good as some others in the P-39.
Its not junk just because it isnt a P-47N or a Dora.
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It is a statement of fact that the P-39 does not have any advantages over these planes, except perhaps the fact that it can take a heavy punch and keep on flying. Your statement would be more accurate if you said the P-39 is maneuverable enough to take advantage of mistakes by the pilots of these bird in close dogfighting.
Now if the P-39 were fast enough to disengage from the gaggles of uber-turners *and* run down some of the stuff it *does* outmaneuver fairly easily (Your Jugs, your Ponies, your 190s and Typhs, etc), things would be alot better. P-63 anyone?
Cant manuever against any of them? can just run??? well, that has not been my experience in it, the Spit XVI is a bear close in, as we all know, the rest? no problem. I certainly see no big threat from a Ki-84 or a N1K2, you should stand a decent chance vs them in a "even" fight, and im nowhwere near as good as some others in the P-39.
Its not junk just because it isnt a P-47N or a Dora.
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"is maneuverable enough to take advantage of mistakes by the pilots of these bird in close dogfighting."
Isnt thats what they all do it win? Can the P-39 do that, yes, or no?
Its not correct that it has no attributes that are better than some fighters on that list. It can out dive some, out roll some, and has a lower wing loading than some. Its manueverbility in certain speed regimes is better than some. The P-39Q has a decent blend of attributes that make it a competative fighter in LWA. Not uber, not the best, competative.
Wing loading list at 50 fuel, clean, best to worst:
Spit XVI: 30.15 ft lbs
P-39Q: 33.35 ft lbs
Ki-84: 33.85 ft lbs
N1K2: 34.23 ft lbs
F6F: 35.13 ft lbs
F4U-1D: 36.51 ft lbs
P-38J: 50.37 ft lbs
Thats just one attribute, hardly the worst. Im not going to argue flaps and corner speeds, im simply pointing out that its a false statement to say it has no advanatages over any of the others.
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doesn't that pretty much cover every plane in the set? :aok
IDK, I've pulled some dumb stuff in a P-51, a C-47, a P-47, a Fw190D, an Fw190A8, a B-24, a B-26, a B-25, a C205, an A6M, a jeep, etc. I landed all the planes out in a clearing in the middle of a furball and made it back at one point in my gaming careear. As for the Jeep, I was circiling around a tank when he was trying to get me, I just kept going round and round, round and round. I even got an assist (shot at him till MG, was empty then drove off).
It is a statement of fact that the P-39 does not have any advantages over these planes, except perhaps the fact that it can take a heavy punch and keep on flying. Your statement would be more accurate if you said the P-39 is maneuverable enough to take advantage of mistakes by the pilots of these bird in close dogfighting.
Now if the P-39 were fast enough to disengage from the gaggles of uber-turners *and* run down some of the stuff it *does* outmaneuver fairly easily (Your Jugs, your Ponies, your 190s and Typhs, etc), things would be alot better. P-63 anyone?
Well, yes, but I've beaten pilots in atleast the upper teir, when they were flying slightly supperior planes to mine, but that is luck. My point is a superior plane in the hands of a good pilot doesn't mean a sure thing, they could run out of fuel, overshoot, etc., or make any of the simple mistakes that will kill you in a fight.
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"is maneuverable enough to take advantage of mistakes by the pilots of these bird in close dogfighting."
Isnt thats what they all do it win?
No, there are many possible matchups where all one pilot has to do to kill/drive off his lesser opponent is avoid large mistakes, at least from a Co-E or better start.
Wing loading list at 50 fuel, clean, best to worst:
Spit XVI: 30.15 ft lbs
P-39Q: 33.35 ft lbs
Ki-84: 33.85 ft lbs
N1K2: 34.23 ft lbs
F6F: 35.13 ft lbs
F4U-1D: 36.51 ft lbs
P-38J: 50.37 ft lbs
Thats just one attribute, hardly the worst. Im not going to argue flaps and corner speeds, im simply pointing out that its a false statement to say it has no advanatages over any of the others.
IIRC, Widewing's tests indicated the P-39 is one of those planes which isn't turning as well as the wingloading comparison would seem to indicate...along the lines of our P-51 and Ki-61.IOW IIRC, it is out-turned by the XVI, Ki, Nik, and Corsair. I didn't see the P-38 on the original list.
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Squire,
Just FYI, the P39s are more or less my most used ride since the last 20 tours... I speak of experience, not out of the blue sky. I know the limits of the plane very well, thus my quick and dirty list of planes that will give the P39Q a very hard time. Do I engage those planes on that list - I have to - those are very common MA planes, so there is plenty of comparison. And the result is, all those planes can finish the 39Q easily, when flown correctly. And therein lies the problem - most MA pilots do not know how to fly correctly, let alone extract 100% of a plane. That is the reason that I kill way more Spit16s for example in a 39 (D and Q) then vice versa - and not because the 39 is a good match for the Spit.
Also, your wingloading example is a bit oversimplified, there are other factors that play an important role in a turnfight too: powerloading, flap deployment etc.
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I probably misunderstood the "tone" of your post, mistaking your list of "planes it can engage but has to worry about in a competative way" with "planes its clearly outclassed by", you better just run and pray.
...Re the wing loading, yes, I understand that, but I was pointing out that blanket statements about how its "just plain inferior"; either by insinuation or plainly stated, are just factually wrong. It has its strengths too. It really has no great problem in a turning contest vs many of the MA rides, especially if its not overloaded with fuel, or has the draggy gondolas on it, and it has other attributes that are superior in certain regimes, which I listed already.
:salute
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I probably misunderstood the "tone" of your post, mistaking your list of "planes it can engage but has to worry about in a competitive way" with "planes its clearly outclassed by", you better just run and pray.
...Re the wing loading, yes, I understand that, but I was pointing out that blanket statements about how its "just plain inferior"; either by insinuation or plainly stated, are just factually wrong. It has its strengths too. It really has no great problem in a turning contest vs many of the MA rides, especially if its not overloaded with fuel, or has the draggy gondolas on it, and it has other attributes that are superior in certain regimes, which I listed already.
:salute
No, you did not misunderstand it - against those planes it really comes just down to pray - because running is not an option either - hehe. But I'll state it again : This only applies to a co-E, similar pilot skill situation. If you can feast on a 5k alt advantage or on a lesser pilot, then it's really like as you said: "planes it can engage but has to worry about in a competitive way".
Regarding your second paragraph, I really cannot give the 39Q any credit of having any advantage against those planes, even in the cleanest condition. That's my experience at least, but hey, that's just me...
So, just as an example, what do you think what advantage(s) the 39Q has over, say, the F4U-1 (or any other plane on that list for that matter) ? Trust me, if there is anything I haven't considered yet, I need to know it ASAP! ;)
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F4U-1 turn radius with no flaps; 674 ft. P-39Q same condition; 609 ft (and I don't know if thats with or without the gondos). Like I said, there are certain regimes that it might have an edge, even if its small, it depends on the circumstance and vs what a/c.
I give a big :salute to you for flying the P-39, its nice to see somebody else will take her up. Its a very fun ride, at the least.
Regards.
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There are 24 P-39Q slots available in the next scenario. Come fly it in historical situations. :aok
That is correct Fencer
Nemisis, come fly with 212 GvIAP in the scenario, we could always use some pilots.
Also, do not be afraid to take the P-39 up above the "15k alt limit." I was recently flying against a Yak, and kept following him up, past the cloud layer to ~22,000 feet. She is a stubborn bird up there, but she will still turn with coaxing. WEP really helps up there. Dives very well. Practice with the 37mm, and you should start getting one hit kills.
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The best way to defeat a niki in or a la7 in a 39 I have found is coax that sucker to get 400-600 off you at 10k alt or so going about 250-300 then dive hard hit 450-500 mph and flat turn or slight yo yo turn hard niki and la7's lose this turn to the 39 fast and if they dare to follow you to long you will be on their arse so fast they will have no choice but to run and pray you cant kill them. if they give up on following in dive dont just dive out you lose speed fast hang on to that alt desperately your opponent will cling and get greedy then if you cant accomplish the 450 ish mph fake like you can they will know you cant and stay on you this time only when you see them commit chop throttle kick rudder pull hard up and a bit of turn wait for them to over shoot underneath lvl flat and climb with them cutting in hard most people see the over shoot but believe if you follow them in the stream they know they can out zoom and win but you actually predict this simple counter and very very early on move in towards their wide climb zone and work on a good lead turn that will land you on their bum. Now if they recognize their imminent death some people will they will simply extend you should proceed to climb again dont give up alt for a futile chase.
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Nemisis, come fly with 212 GvIAP in the scenario, we could always use some pilots.
Also, do not be afraid to take the P-39 up above the "15k alt limit."
I would if I could Enker, but I've been locked for lack of payment, and an education comes first. I'll be back on anywhere between Dec 25 all the way out to Feb1. I'll gladly fly with you anytime...
As for the alt limit, I always push the envelope of planes: I'll dogfight a zero in an FW190D, maybe not TnB with it, but I won't run...
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I've flown the P-39D a fair amount. It is quite a decent plane -- not a crappy plane as folks would think from reading historical information about it. It's fairly fast down low, turns OK, and handles and rolls well even at very high speeds. This latter point is useful against any planes whose controls get very stiff at high speeds (some of the Japanese planes, many of the 109's, for example), or that hit compressibility, or that come apart at high speeds (Ki-84's, for example).
No, you won't outturn a Spit in a stallfight -- but you can definitely hold your own in any type of multiplane fight, stallfights included.
Also, it's a rather small plane, so harder to hit.
So, you can turn hard in fights with most planes (except maybe Zeros, Hurris, Buffaloes, F4F's, FM2's -- but you are faster than those). You can use its good response at high speed against planes that are sluggish handlers at high speed (Zero, many 109's, Spit I).