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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Birddogg on September 24, 2009, 06:49:54 PM

Title: co worker stealing
Post by: Birddogg on September 24, 2009, 06:49:54 PM
Hi,

I'm in a dilema and don't know what to do, I was hoping some of you more senior folk would be able to provide me with some advice.

Situation is this, I found out that my coworker is taking  bribes (certain percentage) from  businesses that we work with, in return he gives them the business.
I have no proof other then him telling me he's doing it (i can't understand why would he tell me.)


What should I do? Should I report him?
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: allaire on September 24, 2009, 06:51:53 PM
Blow the whistle if you can do it anonymously that something funny is going on, or if you don't want to go that route try to get some evidence on him.
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: 5PointOh on September 24, 2009, 06:52:06 PM
If you have no proof, it could be your word against his.  Tough situation there.  May I ask what kind of business?
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: RipChord929 on September 24, 2009, 07:06:59 PM
I believe the term is "Kickbacks"!!!  LOL, welcome to the real world, LOL!!!

I know about paying kickbacks to certain ppl for their customer referrals, I gave 10% of the net, on any deal that came from that person.... It's very common in the world...  Made FAR more money than I gave away!!!

If he is a "Buddy", and he told you this in confidence, "MAN LAW" says that you can't rat him out...

A goodguy won't partake of it himself, and would chide him when you find him doing it...

Sergeant Schultz: "I know nothing, I see nothing, I hear nothing!!!" is the best bet!!!

I'd keep an eye on the guy tho, wouldn't trust him with the family jewels...

Could be a test as well?

RC
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: ZetaNine on September 24, 2009, 07:11:42 PM
if he's sicilian........keep your mouth shut.

if he's union...keep your mouth shut.

frankly......if all you have is him telling you this.....I rather doubt the story.  move on.

my guess is you're being tested.





Hi,

I'm in a dilema and don't know what to do, I was hoping some of you more senior folk would be able to provide me with some advice.

Situation is this, I found out that my coworker is taking  bribes (certain percentage) from  businesses that we work with, in return he gives them the business.
I have no proof other then him telling me he's doing it (i can't understand why would he tell me.)


What should I do? Should I report him?
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: uptown on September 24, 2009, 07:11:54 PM
Hi,

I'm in a dilema and don't know what to do, I was hoping some of you more senior folk would be able to provide me with some advice.

Situation is this, I found out that my coworker is taking  bribes (certain percentage) from  businesses that we work with, in return he gives them the business.
I have no proof other then him telling me he's doing it (i can't understand why would he tell me.)


What should I do? Should I report him?
:rofl are you kiddin me?! You getting paid ain't you?  :rofl If he's Italian keep your head down and your mouth shut. :aok


See Zeta9 knows :rofl
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: Birddogg on September 24, 2009, 07:41:51 PM
Hehe,

Ya, I'm getting paid by the company, NOT the dude. Dude, opened his mouth, but I didnt see him flex any money muscle. So i figure, why be exposed for nothing(I wouldnt accept even if he offered me money)

Btw...He's not italian / union, he's not even permament......What eats me alive is that i'm no snitch and dude doesnt seem such a bad person.... it feel so hard to do something like that, but I need to make a decision.

And if it is some kind of a test... pffft.. test for what, some internal investgation? Then it's must that I report.

Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: uptown on September 24, 2009, 08:01:42 PM
report only when you have proof and distance yourself from this person.Him not being permament and in the position to take bribes sounds real fishy to me. Good luck  :salute
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: RipChord929 on September 24, 2009, 08:04:42 PM
Ah, kickbacks are a common method of biz networking... Happens ALL the time!!!

Its not the same as destroying reciepts, and swiping the money in the till... Which is INTOLERABLE!!!

As far as the "Test" goes, ask yourself what he is trying to learn about your character?
Probably, he wants to know, if you have an independent mindset, or are just a mindless company lapdog...

RC
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: trigger2 on September 24, 2009, 08:20:12 PM
Ah, kickbacks are a common method of biz networking... Happens ALL the time!!!

Its not the same as destroying reciepts, and swiping the money in the till... Which is INTOLERABLE!!!

As far as the "Test" goes, ask yourself what he is trying to learn about your character?
Probably, he wants to know, if you have an independent mindset, or are just a mindless company lapdog...

RC

Maybe so, but it's still a serious federal crime...

Issuing and accepting kickbacks are both serious crimes. The Anti-Kickback Act of 1986 prohibits government contractors and subcontractors from issuing or accepting kickbacks, as well as forcing an employee to kick back part of his or her compensation. Violators may face a $5000 fine and/or five years in prison.

The US Code's Title 18, section 874, focuses on public works employees. The law essentially states that whoever induces any person employed in the repair of any public building, for example, to give up any part of the compensation, the person doing the inducing (soliciting the kickback) shall be imprisoned for up to five years, fined, or both. Beyond building repair, the law applies to anyone employed in any work financed in whole or in part by loans or grants from the United States.

Title 12, section 2607 of the US Code explicitly prohibits kickbacks and unearned fees “incident to or a part of a real estate settlement service involving a federally related mortgage loan.” The law prohibits fees and kickbacks for referrals and the splitting of charges made or received for the rendering of a real estate settlement service (other than fees earned for services actually performed).

Prosecution of kickback crimes can come from many agencies, depending on the specific territory in which the crime takes place. The General Services Administration, the Department of Defense's Federal Procurement Fraud Unit, the Office of Inspector General, and Antitrust Division of the US Department of Justice are just a few federal examples. The Attorney General or the insurance commissioner of any state may also bring an action for violations of anti-kickback laws.

What you must remember as well is that by knowing about the crime, if you don't do anything (in your power that is, which, in this case, report it) to prevent/stop it, you're an accomplice...

Good luck...
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: RipChord929 on September 24, 2009, 08:23:21 PM
Maybe so, but it's still a serious federal crime...

Issuing and accepting kickbacks are both serious crimes. The Anti-Kickback Act of 1986 prohibits government contractors and subcontractors from issuing or accepting kickbacks, as well as forcing an employee to kick back part of his or her compensation. Violators may face a $5000 fine and/or five years in prison.

The US Code's Title 18, section 874, focuses on public works employees. The law essentially states that whoever induces any person employed in the repair of any public building, for example, to give up any part of the compensation, the person doing the inducing (soliciting the kickback) shall be imprisoned for up to five years, fined, or both. Beyond building repair, the law applies to anyone employed in any work financed in whole or in part by loans or grants from the United States.

Title 12, section 2607 of the US Code explicitly prohibits kickbacks and unearned fees “incident to or a part of a real estate settlement service involving a federally related mortgage loan.” The law prohibits fees and kickbacks for referrals and the splitting of charges made or received for the rendering of a real estate settlement service (other than fees earned for services actually performed).

Prosecution of kickback crimes can come from many agencies, depending on the specific territory in which the crime takes place. The General Services Administration, the Department of Defense's Federal Procurement Fraud Unit, the Office of Inspector General, and Antitrust Division of the US Department of Justice are just a few federal examples. The Attorney General or the insurance commissioner of any state may also bring an action for violations of anti-kickback laws.

What you must remember as well is that by knowing about the crime, if you don't do anything (in your power that is, which, in this case, report it) to prevent/stop it, you're an accomplice...

Good luck...

Sure, and the corrupt love muffines that wrote those laws take the biggest kickbacks of all, LOL!!!
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: ZetaNine on September 24, 2009, 08:25:40 PM
Hehe,

Ya, I'm getting paid by the company, NOT the dude. Dude, opened his mouth, but I didnt see him flex any money muscle. So i figure, why be exposed for nothing(I wouldnt accept even if he offered me money)

Btw...He's not italian / union, he's not even permament......What eats me alive is that i'm no snitch and dude doesnt seem such a bad person.... it feel so hard to do something like that, but I need to make a decision.

And if it is some kind of a test... pffft.. test for what, some internal investgation? Then it's must that I report.






now THAT is critical info I was not aware of....... we just found the tell.......now that you have said he's a temp employee. ("not even permanent").

no doubt in my mind he's a company shill (spy) doing an internal audit because there IS some theft going on........in other words..........all systems go.........report it.  win/win........even if we're wrong here.......he's temp.  if we're right that he's a shill......and we are....trust me........you just may advance a little quicker up the pay scale with this company than most.

nothing else passes the smile test.  nobody would tell you if they are stealing........especially a cat who's temp...and on his way out the door soon with money.  

additionally..........if we're right.........and we are...and you do not report it......that will be reported to your company...thus making NOT reporting it a lose/lose.

auditing report:

disclosure made to employee # 234-w on 9-23...3:23 pm


go for it

Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: stroker71 on September 24, 2009, 08:31:03 PM
If it's not effecting your income don't worry about it. 

DuHasst
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: ZetaNine on September 24, 2009, 08:37:02 PM
If it's not effecting your income don't worry about it. 

DuHasst

it will.......thus my above point.

this smells like an internal audit investigation.......
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: Grayeagle on September 24, 2009, 08:54:53 PM
Is it illegal?

Yes.

Talk to your supervisor.

If it's bidness as usual where you work, time to get resume up to speed and move on.
'Unfair business acts' is only the tip of the iceberg there dood.

-Frank aka GE
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: gyrene81 on September 24, 2009, 09:11:48 PM
Hey Trigger...those laws only apply to people who work for or are contracted to Federal, State and Local governments. We don't know what kind of company or contract situation (if any) Birddog works for.


Birddog...go to your supervisor first...ask if you can talk to him in private...tell him you're not sure what to make of the tale...tell him what you were told and that you don't want someone getting in trouble for nothing...but just in case there is any truth to it, you feel you need to tell someone in charge that might be able to find out the truth.

End of story.
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: Masherbrum on September 24, 2009, 09:20:34 PM
now THAT is critical info I was not aware of....... we just found the tell.......now that you have said he's a temp employee. ("not even permanent").

no doubt in my mind he's a company shill (spy) doing an internal audit because there IS some theft going on........in other words..........all systems go.........report it.  win/win........even if we're wrong here.......he's temp.  if we're right that he's a shill......and we are....trust me........you just may advance a little quicker up the pay scale with this company than most.

nothing else passes the smile test.  nobody would tell you if they are stealing........especially a cat who's temp...and on his way out the door soon with money.  

additionally..........if we're right.........and we are...and you do not report it......that will be reported to your company...thus making NOT reporting it a lose/lose.

auditing report: disclosure made to employee # 234-w on 9-23...3:23 pm

go for it

It was the first thing that came to my mind.  
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: Anaxogoras on September 24, 2009, 09:31:25 PM
Sure, and the corrupt love muffines that wrote those laws take the biggest kickbacks of all, LOL!!!

Tu quoque
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: ariansworld on September 24, 2009, 09:37:57 PM
I caught a coworker stealing from the arcade, we threw him in jail.
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: vonKrimm on September 24, 2009, 09:46:06 PM
Someone else said "go to your supervisor" my advice is to go to Human Resources.  Play-up the angel of how his talk (truth or untruth aside) can play on your firm's reputation.  If your HR dept. is at all competent, he'll either shut-up or be gone and you will have defended the firm's reputation. 
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: Getback on September 24, 2009, 10:14:26 PM
I should not what to do but I don't. If you have no proof other than his word don't say anything. You get proof. Then by all means say something.
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: SIK1 on September 24, 2009, 11:14:29 PM
The proof is he told you. Go to a superior and let them know what he told you. This business as usual crap is a copout. It is only business as usual if people continue to let it happen. We all determine what is acceptable and what is not.

Obviously it bothers you. Ask yourself if you do nothing and it continues, and maybe he moves up, or even takes your position how will you feel about it then. Take the high road and do what you know is right. After all the in the end the only person you have too answer to is the one you look at in the mirror every morning.
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: Birddogg on September 24, 2009, 11:41:01 PM
Yea, it bothers me, because we work hard to save company money and  then this dude comes and scoops in our savings and destroys our extra work......and goes to tell it to my face.

It doesn't make any sense....Who in the right mind would tell it to my face like that about their "kickback" scheme.

I've got no choice but to report this dude.

I just hope the dude doesn't come after me looking for revenge... :noid

Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: phatzo on September 25, 2009, 12:08:25 AM
Hard to say what to do without knowing the situation, kickbacks are common to me and has become expected, although its not cash, usually tools from a tool company that wants me to stock their product, jackets, tickets to Indy, football and cricket. That sort of stuff just happens all the time in my industry.
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: RipChord929 on September 25, 2009, 12:09:18 AM
So, tell us what kinda Biz this is, and your position?

RC
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: phatzo on September 25, 2009, 12:13:17 AM
So, tell us what kinda Biz this is, and your position?

RC
if your asking me I'm the purchasing officer/store manager of a building and engineering supplies store.
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: RipChord929 on September 25, 2009, 12:21:54 AM
Sorry phatz, I was askin Bird... We posted almost at the same time...
LOL, I was in the car biz for many years... Kickbacks to parts suppliers are common as dirt.. Ppl always ask the parts guys, "where is a good place to have this service done?"...  A 10% kickback always made sure they ended up at my shop... Which always kept the shop full, and my guys workin.. Money in my pocket, and theirs!!  And the parts guys picked up a some tax free cash on the side... Works all around, ya know!!!

All it boiled down to for me was, casting a wider net!!!
RC
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: Heater on September 25, 2009, 07:18:18 AM
Check to see what your corporate policies are....In most cases "kickbacks" are illegal and can be subject to heavy fines and imprisonment.

Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: CAP1 on September 25, 2009, 07:56:36 AM
Hi,

I'm in a dilema and don't know what to do, I was hoping some of you more senior folk would be able to provide me with some advice.

Situation is this, I found out that my coworker is taking  bribes (certain percentage) from  businesses that we work with, in return he gives them the business.
I have no proof other then him telling me he's doing it (i can't understand why would he tell me.)


What should I do? Should I report him?

get proof. record the conversations. then try to do it anomalously, but definitly turn his bellybutton in. 
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: allaire on September 25, 2009, 07:58:24 AM
Careful with recording the conversation and make sure that you can do it legally. 
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: skernsk on September 25, 2009, 08:20:57 AM
What type of work are you in?  Are we talking about companies tendering work and this guy not awarding accordingly? 

At the very least document what was said and when and continue to document you interactions with this guy.  When you decide what to do
you can take that to the boss and have an off the record conversation and then it is up to the boss what to do.
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: CAP1 on September 25, 2009, 08:57:27 AM
Careful with recording the conversation and make sure that you can do it legally. 

i understand there's different rules and laws(nj is a one party state btw) but if it goes to court......all you have to do is get the recording heard. legal or not, at that point the damage is done.
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: allaire on September 25, 2009, 09:06:23 AM
Hell even if the recording isn't legal it's damning.  If he lives in an "at will" employment state that would be enough to terminate.
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: CAP1 on September 25, 2009, 09:11:39 AM
Hell even if the recording isn't legal it's damning.  If he lives in an "at will" employment state that would be enough to terminate.

that was my point.  :aok

i have digital voice recorders in both my car and van...of course i have to turn em on, but they're there in case needed. i have a recorder built into my cell phone, and i have one on my shop phone line.  :D
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: Reschke on September 25, 2009, 09:37:27 AM
Some call it a "finders fee" in the heavy equipment sales businesses. I have made a few non-taxable $500 cash transactions on things like this. Generally in my line of work I am always talking with people who are buying/selling heavy equipment and they are always looking for someone to put the word out on the street and these guys that are selling the equipment may end up paying out a total of $2000 (for example) to 4 guys who helped them get the $400k piece of equipment sold. I have also gotten a few finders fee payments when guys have been turned onto a new equipment sale and that comes out of the sales reps pocket. Not a bad deal when they are getting a 3% commission on some piece of equipment from $100k up to $2.5million so it helps them to help those of us that talk with these users daily.

If they are getting dollars back in some other way that would have been company funds that is a different story.
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: lowZX14 on September 25, 2009, 09:50:37 AM
that was my point.  :aok

i have digital voice recorders in both my car and van...of course i have to turn em on, but they're there in case needed. i have a recorder built into my cell phone, and i have one on my shop phone line.  :D
I can tell you that in the great Commonwealth of Virginia you can record all you want as long as you are in the conversation.  It is completely legal to record a conversation here as long as one of the parties knows about it whether you participate or not.

get proof. record the conversations. then try to do it anomalously, but definitly turn his bellybutton in. 
Oh my dear friend CAP, you know I've got nothing but love for you but this one made me spew sweet tea all over the place
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: allaire on September 25, 2009, 10:26:41 AM
Good catch low  :rofl :aok
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: CAP1 on September 25, 2009, 10:38:18 AM
I can tell you that in the great Commonwealth of Virginia you can record all you want as long as you are in the conversation.  It is completely legal to record a conversation here as long as one of the parties knows about it whether you participate or not.
Oh my dear friend CAP, you know I've got nothing but love for you but this one made me spew sweet tea all over the place

 :rofl

wait?? i thought you were a marine???

since when did MARINES start drinking tea? :rofl :aok
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: lowZX14 on September 25, 2009, 10:40:04 AM
Let's hijack this real quick....yes sir I am a Marine, but I'm also southern which means I still drink sweet tea.
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: allaire on September 25, 2009, 10:40:42 AM
I'm willing to bet that it's good southern sweet tea not that poncey stuff.
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: DMBEAR on September 25, 2009, 10:49:15 AM
First, the office spys show up to thin the herd.  :noid







Then... "The Bobs"



(http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp193/dmbear/bobs.jpg)
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: FireDrgn on September 25, 2009, 10:51:13 AM
Well I guess Ill be the ahole and sayit.  How did you get to the point were he can even feel confortable aproching you about this? He had to of tested the waters. Thats when you should have put him on notice.

If he never tested the water so to speak... Hes a tard that will just try taking you down when he goes anyways.

The fact is he is testing you one way or the other.

I would have a frank conversation with your boss....

Beware  boss may not have a problem with it and you may end up being branded  " not a team player"
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: CptTrips on September 25, 2009, 05:00:34 PM
In my own personal opinion...

Knowingly tolerating a thief is not much different that being one.

Regards,
Wab

Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: CAP1 on September 25, 2009, 05:05:11 PM
In my own personal opinion...

Knowingly tolerating a thief is not much different that being one.

Regards,
Wab



+1
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: trigger2 on September 25, 2009, 05:18:33 PM
In my own personal opinion...
Knowingly tolerating a thief is not much different that being one.
Regards,
Wab

I agree...

And the Air Force Acadamy's honor code goes along with it...
Quote
:
We will not lie, steal or cheat, nor tolerate among us anyone who does.
Furthermore, I resolve to do my duty and to live honorably, so help me God.
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: Anodizer on September 25, 2009, 05:40:59 PM
Tell him that if he doesn't give you a cut, he's toast....
Who cares about "stealing" from corporations?  They make enough
money as it is..  The ones who don't are run poorly and shouldn't be
in business in the first place.. 






Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: CAP1 on September 25, 2009, 06:28:01 PM
Tell him that if he doesn't give you a cut, he's toast....
Who cares about "stealing" from corporations?  They make enough
money as it is..  The ones who don't are run poorly and shouldn't be
in business in the first place.. 








i8 knew a guy that was working for a local car dealer. big one. corporation. EVERYONE that knew him knew he was stealing from them. he used to brag about the fact that he knew where all the cameras blond spots were.
 he was fired from there....3 times for it.

 a friend was considering hiring him. i reminded my friend that the dude was a theif. he hired the dude anyway.

 guess who went out of business?
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: allaire on September 25, 2009, 06:32:07 PM
man Cap I was gonna call you on that one but na.  I love people that think it's ok to steal from corporations just because the "have to much money anyway."  The only time it's ok to even think about stealing is food to stay alive, even then it's not ok just understandable.
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: crazyivan on September 25, 2009, 06:35:02 PM
if he's sicilian........keep your mouth shut.

   (http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h121/PhoenixRoseStar/Princess%20Bride/inconceivable2.jpg)
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: CAP1 on September 25, 2009, 06:35:10 PM
man Cap I was gonna call you on that one but na.  I love people that think it's ok to steal from corporations just because the "have to much money anyway."  The only time it's ok to even think about stealing is food to stay alive, even then it's not ok just understandable.

yep.

it was my friend that went under btw. the dude kept taking things from customers cars.....
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: allaire on September 25, 2009, 06:41:22 PM
see bold
i8 knew a guy that was working for a local car dealer. big one. corporation. EVERYONE that knew him knew he was stealing from them. he used to brag about the fact that he knew where all the cameras blond spots were.
 he was fired from there....3 times for it.

Seems like you had a blond spot. :devil
Title: Re: co worker stealing
Post by: Anodizer on September 25, 2009, 06:43:47 PM
man Cap I was gonna call you on that one but na.  I love people that think it's ok to steal from corporations just because the "have to much money anyway."  The only time it's ok to even think about stealing is food to stay alive, even then it's not ok just understandable.

lmao
Corporate Execs steal from corporations they work for all the time..  Consider it the trickle down effect....