Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: StokesAk on September 25, 2009, 10:37:59 AM
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Hi,
Im will be flying the 109-G14 for the up coming scenario and I have a few questions about it.
-Do the gondolas bleed alot of preformance from it?
-I's not very good with a 30mm, should i take the 20mm package?
-How does it do versus a Yak9u or La7/5?
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-Don't take the Gondies
-Take the 20mm but learn the tater, one shot, one kill.
-La5/7 are not a problem in terms of performance past 10-15k, use the vertical. Yak9 can be a problem up till about 22-25k IIRC.
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Hi,
Im will be flying the 109-G14 for the up coming scenario and I have a few questions about it.
-Do the gondolas bleed alot of preformance from it?
-I's not very good with a 30mm, should i take the 20mm package?
-How does it do versus a Yak9u or La7/5?
Gondolas bleed a lot of performance from the G-14.
Yes, take the 20mm package unless you have a lot of practice with the 30mm.
Here are some performance charts:
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/genchart.php?p1=24&p2=84&pw=1>ype=0)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/genchart.php?p1=24&p2=84&pw=1>ype=2)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/genchart.php?p1=5&p2=84&pw=1>ype=0)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/genchart.php?p1=5&p2=84&pw=1>ype=2)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/genchart.php?p1=42&p2=84&pw=1>ype=0)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/genchart.php?p1=42&p2=84&pw=1>ype=2)
In general, you don't want to get into a turning contest with either of the La's, because you will lose that fight quickly. The Yak-9U turns a bit worse than the La's, and its torque is tough to handle at low speed, but you still don't want to make a habit of turning with them in the G-14.
Yak-9T? :noid
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Thanks guys,
sadly the Yak9T isnt in this scenario.
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Are you fighting bombers or fighters? I still b/c I know the performance of the airplane would take the gondies and learn how to fly heavy with it. I think it is a much more stabil aircraft heavier, and still, with the right moves can out turn a spit. I don't ever fly it without gondies but when I do I can't fly it.
Ammo needs to be conserved, but 6 or 7 kills in one sortie is not out of the question.
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with the right moves can out turn a spit.
Uh-huh.
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Uh-huh.
Think he means using the vertical Gav. :)
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By that definition I can outturn a Spit with a B-17.
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Hi,
Im will be flying the 109-G14 for the up coming scenario and I have a few questions about it.
-Do the gondolas bleed alot of preformance from it?
-I's not very good with a 30mm, should i take the 20mm package?
-How does it do versus a Yak9u or La7/5?
Don't take the gondis, use the 20mm, oh yeah, the La7/5 doesn't stand a chance if you can get him to turn and not bnz.
Bait the La7 in to a slow roll'n scissors or flat scissors. When doing the flat scissors, make sure you keep your nose up, also, when fighting with a g14 be aggressive with throttle and flap management, ie constantly be lowering/raising flaps and pulling on & off throttle. If you don't and fly full throttle or do not manage the flaps constantly, you will stall out frequently and you will have difficulty fighting at slow speeds.
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Take the 20mm with gondies. You are going to be employing unit tactics not dueling guys 1v1 on the deck more than likely. The 3 gun package absolutely shreds, you can clear your wingman with one little squeeze and if you bump into some of the A-20s, IL-2s, or B-25s without the gondolas you will regret not taking them as you RTB for more ammo.
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I'll show you. Film one of my sorties or all of them.
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Yeah, take the 20mm and gondies, great combo for scenario.
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Gondolas are mission-specific.... If you're going up against fighters, if you're escort, sweep, CAP, whatever... leave them off.
If you're intercepting bombers, or hunting really heavily armored craft (IL2, for example) you may need the firepower.
I made a chart for TracerX once, when the question of gondola performance loss was called up.
Not only does it mess up your level top speed, your roll rate, your turn rate, and your ability to dogfight, they screw up your ability to climb, stay in formation, etc.
A 109G2 without gondolas will climb better OFF wep than a 109G2 *with* gondolas will climb WITH wep... It's a big difference.
(http://www.nakatomitower.com/71sqn/109g2_gondolaschart.jpg)
Assuming the drag is the same for all 109 gondolas (it should be) you see how it can really impact your game. So depending on the mission it may be important, but your "firing time" does not increase any longer with the extra ammo. I've landed 9 kills or so in a G6 with 1 hotpad halfway through, no gondolas. If you practice your aim that single 20mm nose gun can definitely do some damage.
EDIT: Since the chart was intended for FSO use, I don't recall if it was with DT or without... I think "without"...
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By that definition I can outturn a Spit with a B-17.
Pretty sure he means out fly by using superior angles tactics. In a pure flat turn spit will win.
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Pretty sure he means out fly by using superior angles tactics. In a pure flat turn spit will win.
Exactly.
Here's what I mean:
http://www.mediafire.com/?nyqy12yioey
The whole vid up to when I RTB is a spit fight.
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When I fly the G14, I take the gondolas as they provide enough fire power for snap shots or to down some of the more heavy armoured planes, they effect your turn rate and roll rate but you wont be fighting 1v1s but as squad. I would not bother taking the 30mm in the g14.
use the vertical and make use of your good climb rate, practice alot in the plane as the torque of the engine can also lead to you being killed. 109s need good use of the throttle... and remember to have a spare hat switch to use for trim. I also find the plane is best at mid speeds. The 109s also create alot of drag which can be useful to force an overshot if need be.
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Nvr take gondies they slow u down and affect turning.
:salute,
100irish
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Exactly.
Here's what I mean:
http://www.mediafire.com/?nyqy12yioey
The whole vid up to when I RTB is a spit fight.
I watched the first fight with the Spit that augers. You did a nice job of suckering him into a nose-to-nose fight instead of a nose-to-tail fight, and I do the same thing routinely in the 109G-6. We both know that when we win fights like that, it's because the poor sod in the XVI doesn't know how to use his ride's strengths effectively. But that is not an example of "out-turning," or at the least it's misleading to call that "out-turning." Winning a turn-radius fight is very different from winning a turn-rate fight.
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I personally take the 30mm, Just get VERY close.
Thats how Erich Hartmann did it and it worked for him.
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I personally take the 30mm, Just get VERY close.
Yup. That's what makes the G14 fun.
- oldman
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I watched the first fight with the Spit that augers. You did a nice job of suckering him into a nose-to-nose fight instead of a nose-to-tail fight, and I do the same thing routinely in the 109G-6. We both know that when we win fights like that, it's because the poor sod in the XVI doesn't know how to use his ride's strengths effectively. But that is not an example of "out-turning," or at the least it's misleading to call that "out-turning." Winning a turn-radius fight is very different from winning a turn-rate fight.
Unfortunently I'm on travel and filmviewer doesn't work on my laptop so I can't comment on the specific fight; however, the implication that the phrase "out-turning" only applies to either radius or rate is incorrect. These are the two fundamental measurements of turn performance and are useful for a basic understanding and comparison of airframe capabilities; however, they alone do not completely define an aircraft's turn performance nor determine which aircraft can "out-turn" another except in a very narrowly defined situation.
There are several additional components which make up an aircraft's true ability to "turn" including Ps and handling qualities. An aircraft with superior Ps is usually more capable of sustained turns and using the vertical to capitalize on it's best turn radius (high reversal) or turn rate (low reversal for instance). An aircraft which has poor handling qualities can have difficulty getting the best performance in either rate or radius measurements.
The fact of the matter is that many aircraft can, in fact, out-turn a supposedly "better turning" fighter and it doesn't matter if it's done through better radius, better rate, energy control, or, more likely, a combination of of these. If he's in a turn-fight and gains angles through maneuvers and good choice of rate/radius combinations then he is "out-turning" his opponent.
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Watch the film, and then tell me if you think it's misleading to call it "out-turning." This isn't about theory.
Edit: I was thinking about this, and I think you are right that I incorrectly implied that turn performance is only about turn rate, and not radius. Original point still stands though, especially because the only way the 109G-14 will cut a smaller radius than the XVI is if the XVI pilot makes a mistake.