Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: USRanger on September 28, 2009, 09:19:30 PM

Title: Hey greens
Post by: USRanger on September 28, 2009, 09:19:30 PM
You sure this here "wannabe" HO'd you?(http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/6444/scratchchin.gif) (http://img269.imageshack.us/i/scratchchin.gif/)

(http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/3871/15114355.jpg) (http://img39.imageshack.us/i/15114355.jpg/)

Normally I wouldn't care, but you seemed like such an unpleasant little fellow.
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: gyrene81 on September 28, 2009, 09:39:13 PM
Looks like a rudder kick deflection shot to me...but what do I know?
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: Kermit de frog on September 28, 2009, 09:54:30 PM
Looks like a rudder kick deflection shot to me...but what do I know?

joo know nothing!

Looks like Greens is avoiding a HO while the lesser man took the shot.

In the end, the true kill recorded was on the thrill of the fight.
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: USRanger on September 28, 2009, 09:59:48 PM
Heehee, just havin' my fun. ;)
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: uptown on September 28, 2009, 10:08:26 PM
Hey! That's no way to treat a pony!  :furious
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: USRanger on September 28, 2009, 10:11:08 PM
K.  One more angle then I'll let the jury decide.  If I owe an apology, I'll send it.

(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/6525/36225965.jpg) (http://img18.imageshack.us/i/36225965.jpg/)

Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: gyrene81 on September 28, 2009, 10:15:20 PM
Depends on how anal someone wants to get in calling a HO...that is clearly an angled deflection shot out of the normal head on angles...if you kept going at that exact angle the 2 planes would not meet head on...therefore, no HO.
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: uptown on September 28, 2009, 10:16:05 PM
It's not a ho shot. But why shoot at such a lovely aircraft? Couldn't you find a Spitfire somewhere to violate?! :D

I'll be watching you....you meany!!  :lol
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: Ack-Ack on September 28, 2009, 10:20:45 PM
K.  One more angle then I'll let the jury decide.  If I owe an apology, I'll send it.

(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/6525/36225965.jpg) (http://img18.imageshack.us/i/36225965.jpg/)



Why apologize?  It's a perfectly clean shot, the P-51B is clearly using a terrible merge, actually, it doesn't look like he's using any merge tactic at all.  Your position clearly put you out of any nose to nose merge, and from what looks like your direction of travel, you were using a lead turn on the merge, and green was going straight in a shallow dive.  Looks like his intent (from the 2nd screenshot) was to blow past you on the merge for the pick on the friendly plane close by.


ack-ack

Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: Ack-Ack on September 28, 2009, 10:22:20 PM
Depends on how anal someone wants to get in calling a HO...that is clearly an angled deflection shot out of the normal head on angles...if you kept going at that exact angle the 2 planes would not meet head on...therefore, no HO.

To some people, any shot not taken from the dead six position is a head on shot.  What makes it funny, is certain players with this mind set can be found HOing, picking and ganging anything in sight and then come and post how the 'lesser man' took the HO shot.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: saantana on September 28, 2009, 10:24:52 PM
If its the first merge then its a ho.
Uh.. also, theres a green guy behind you and your in a better turning aircraft, why would you choose to shoot.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: USRanger on September 28, 2009, 10:30:49 PM
Uh.. also, theres a green guy behind you and your in a better turning aircraft, why would you choose to shoot.  :rolleyes:

Ya lost me there...
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: gyrene81 on September 28, 2009, 10:35:45 PM
If its the first merge then its a ho.
Not to beat a dumb horse but...are you trying to tell me that even if he was d8 or farther at the same angle, just because they were merging in some off handed way that it's still a HO?  :confused: Wow...anyone that throws an accusation of a HO on a shot like those pics needs to turn his computer off and go play old maid with his mommy.
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: Kermit de frog on September 28, 2009, 10:39:36 PM
To some people, any shot not taken from the dead six position is a head on shot.  What makes it funny, is certain players with this mind set can be found HOing, picking and ganging anything in sight and then come and post how the 'lesser man' took the HO shot.


ack-ack

If you are going to quote me, step up and make it clear.

 :)
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: saantana on September 28, 2009, 10:45:08 PM
Ya lost me there...

1. The screen clearly shows a country man behind you so you were not getting ganged.
2. You are in a better turning aircraft and low on deck, pony can't run if he engages.
3. Seems like pony is dipping down a little bit to avoid a ho.

Just my thoughts. In my book its a ho. Really, all this technicality of measuring angles is BS.
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: saantana on September 28, 2009, 10:49:12 PM
Not to beat a dumb horse but...are you trying to tell me that even if he was d8 or farther at the same angle, just because they were merging in some off handed way that it's still a HO?  :confused: Wow...anyone that throws an accusation of a HO on a shot like those pics needs to turn his computer off and go play old maid with his mommy.

 :D I think anyone who says the person to say a head on shot is a ho should go play old maid with his mommy should relax. Looking at the world from someone elses perspective and accepting that his view might be different from yours will open up great possibilities for you.
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: Ack-Ack on September 28, 2009, 11:00:23 PM
If you are going to quote me, step up and make it clear.

 :)

Okay, you do the same stuff that you look down on others for doing.  That any better?


ack-ack
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: hubsonfire on September 28, 2009, 11:26:56 PM
If you have to use the hat switch to see who you're taking fire from, it's not a HO. I've forgotten more about being a HO tard than most dweebs will ever learn. Trust.
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: EskimoJoe on September 28, 2009, 11:30:46 PM
With the connection Greens has? Yeah, he probably saw it as a HO.

You people were never taught critical thinking skills?
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: SunBat on September 28, 2009, 11:32:44 PM
Pony should have not let that happen.  Period.  Flip over and show ur belly if u can't get clear and it looks like they can kick rudder.  Maybe u loose some E, but in that pony you can staighten right back out and reset the fight.

Not a HO.  Those shots are when u just shut up and reup.
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: SoonerMP on September 29, 2009, 12:20:24 AM
That was a lovely rant he had going on 200 wasn't it! Greens got a few rounds of lead in the face (no, not a ho). Now he needs to deal with it.

WTG Ranger <S>  :aok
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: CAP1 on September 29, 2009, 12:39:24 AM
Depends on how anal someone wants to get in calling a HO...that is clearly an angled deflection shot out of the normal head on angles...if you kept going at that exact angle the 2 planes would not meet head on...therefore, no HO.

i think i have to agree with this.
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: batch on September 29, 2009, 01:01:15 AM
looks to me like they were lined up for a HO............ greens broke to avoid........ and gave up a deflection..........

exactly why you should always just go on in guns blazing and not try to avoid the HO
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: JunkyII on September 29, 2009, 01:16:22 AM
I cant say it is or isnt from the shots, If a film were posted I would give you an answer.
If its the first merge then its a ho.
Uh.. also, theres a green guy behind you and your in a better turning aircraft, why would you choose to shoot.  :rolleyes:
I dont think they would call that a HO, Ive heard people call it a HOT merge. Just because some doesnt reall try to avoid that much in a HO you can normally tell if they arent because the "jousters start shooting at like 1K out. Now someone gave someone a horrible tip to go for a shot at the last possible second by using rudder
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: USRanger on September 29, 2009, 05:30:06 AM
Maybe I should post the film, maybe just let it go.  Was just having some fun.  Actually, we were never headed towards each other.  He was coming in on my 6.  I banked left, came around and took the shot you all see, in the cockpit & aft.  He did not maneuver at all, just went straight through.  There was no HO to avoid before the screenies.
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: Buzzard7 on September 29, 2009, 05:57:41 AM
Just let it go. I got the rant the night before when I shot down his Spit that missing half a wing. He told me I had no integrity. Just five minutes before that though it was ok for he and two country mates to shoot down my LA-7 that was missing half a wing. I was called several names that eluded to me liking the same sex and such.
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: uptown on September 29, 2009, 06:40:19 AM
Okay, you do the same stuff that you look down on others for doing.  That any better?


ack-ack
:rofl I think that will do it
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: SlapShot on September 29, 2009, 07:16:48 AM
I would have taken that shot all day long ... and had I been taken out by a shot like that ... I would have kept my mouth shut and upped another plane.
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: waystin2 on September 29, 2009, 07:17:26 AM
No apologies required Ranger.  Looks like he got tagged and was not to happy about it.  Get over yourself Mr. Greenjeans.

(http://static.squidoo.com/resize/squidoo_images/-1/draft_lens2191832module11741902photo_1222452278mr-green-jeans-captain-kangaroo.jpg)
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: Yarbles on September 29, 2009, 09:26:51 AM
1. The screen clearly shows a country man behind you so you were not getting ganged.

Call me cynical but in this game a country man behind you can mean a kill stealer.

I merged 3 times with Irish(something) in a row last night and he hoed me on the 3rd I think. I think I might have Hoed him earlier anyway. Its hard enough not to fire when someone is coming straight at you let alone when you have any kind of angle.

If I get my guns to bare first by a descent margin in the MA I tend to shoot becasue it often has little in common with a duel with everythig else going on. In Axis V Allies this is justifiably frowned upon however where there are less planes but they are generally alot more skilled.

So my point to anyone who hasnt been here many times before is in an arena as fluid as the ma if you get an anlg eyou would be forgiven for using it. By the time the pilot on the recieving end gets hit it can look more like a Ho than it was as he meay be getting a shot.

If your a bad sport and cant accept defeat you will start crying about it on 200. In my experience its the same people who get Hoed over and over again. They also cry about pickers and are enlessly criticising the damage model and their fellow countymen for not checking their 6
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: Getback on September 29, 2009, 09:30:00 AM
You pays your money and takes your chances.
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: saantana on September 29, 2009, 11:42:35 AM
I look down upon that kind of shot, it usually means inexperienced pilot that won't hold his own in a 1 on 1. Having said that it also doesn't look like the OP was intending to merge and fight.

All these arguments got me on the fence now. But really don't we want to raise the level of fights and not approve of this kind of practice in general? Saying its good won't do anything to help the MA.
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: JunkyII on September 29, 2009, 11:46:09 AM
I look down upon that kind of shot, it usually means inexperienced pilot that won't hold his own in a 1 on 1. Having said that it also doesn't look like the OP was intending to merge and fight.

All these arguments got me on the fence now. But really don't we want to raise the level of fights and not approve of this kind of practice in general? Saying its good won't do anything to help the MA.
Would you not agree that you could possibly see that same angle of shot in a good 1v1? Fights in the MA actually do seem to be getting better in my opinion I find alot more good fights these days then say 6 months ago :salute
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: saantana on September 29, 2009, 11:48:22 AM
Would you not agree that you could possibly see that same angle of shot in a good 1v1? Fights in the MA actually do seem to be getting better in my opinion I find alot more good fights these days then say 6 months ago :salute

Yes I would but on the first merge? I thought this was what this thread was all about.
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: JunkyII on September 29, 2009, 11:50:46 AM
Yes I would but on the first merge? I thought this was what this thread was all about.
True wasnt thinking, I would wanna see film before i judged it, but looks like Ranger was just having some fun :D
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: Yarbles on September 29, 2009, 11:51:09 AM
I look down upon that kind of shot, it usually means inexperienced pilot that won't hold his own in a 1 on 1. Having said that it also doesn't look like the OP was intending to merge and fight.

All these arguments got me on the fence now. But really don't we want to raise the level of fights and not approve of this kind of practice in general? Saying its good won't do anything to help the MA.

In practice I find it happens so infrequently as not to care. If its anywhere near a furball and anywhere close to an angle for me even on the recieving end it doesnt register as a HO. iF i merge close to nose to nose I expect it but if your style of fighting is to look for Duels 1 on 1 then Its been said before.

Like the man says you pay your money in the ma. Every fight is different, skill and style lvels vary enormously and there are usually gentlemen fightwers in ava if I want to remind myself how good some people are in a fair fight.

Basically the MA is rarely for me about fair fights with differnces in no.s, Planes, E states, Fuel loads and ord loads. Its about situational awareness and positionaing.

What is furstrating though is if you are fighting say against 2 or 3 and winning and one HO's you. Maybe I will try and go a whole tour without getting Hoed, Get hoed on the last day and be able to feel what all the fuss is about :D      
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: Nisky on September 29, 2009, 11:52:09 AM
I saw the textin on 200 i was laughin really hard when it happened.
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: FBnutz on September 29, 2009, 12:08:13 PM
Greens is a personal rival of mine. H to the Izz - O! (HO) Anything to win. :rock
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: saantana on September 29, 2009, 12:19:45 PM
True wasnt thinking, I would wanna see film before i judged it, but looks like Ranger was just having some fun :D

 :aok I take ho shots too sometimes.. mostly against 262's and tempests. Those are fun!  :D
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: Ardy123 on September 29, 2009, 02:43:46 PM
Would you not agree that you could possibly see that same angle of shot in a good 1v1? Fights in the MA actually do seem to be getting better in my opinion I find alot more good fights these days then say 6 months ago :salute

Its all over the map, the general level has increased but then there are still many defiant hobags who are constant repeat offenders.
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: Spikes on September 29, 2009, 02:55:10 PM
Ranger I bet you could have seen this thread when you started it, it's pretty much 50 50...half the people will say it is, half will say it isn't.

My opinion is that it is not, Ho = Head On. Are they head on? no. Therefore no ho.
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: Kermit de frog on September 29, 2009, 05:23:21 PM
:rofl I think that will do it

  :confused:

Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: uptown on September 29, 2009, 06:32:30 PM
  :confused:


:lol sorry but I just knew AckAck would come back with something. Just found his post funny. :lol
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: A8HatTrick on September 29, 2009, 07:47:55 PM
I am not even going to read this thread. I am just going to say, if you die, he HO'd you, if you killed him, it was a deflection shot.

That statement is the truth as the player sees it 90% of the time  :x

P.S. Nice Deflection Shot
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: Sonicblu on September 29, 2009, 09:16:25 PM
I remember going nose on in a fight with Lazer in his 38. He hoed me. I asked him why the ho. He told me it was a lazy merge. I dont think ive ever been so pissed in this game. But I thought about it and it helped me learn to merge differently, and I have to say I do merge better.

I still think he was a (       ) for not helping when asked. " how could I merge better"

I like the hoes where your turn fighting three on one and one of them hoes you to save his bud.
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: Messiah on September 29, 2009, 09:19:50 PM
pimp smack doz hoz like u da boss ya dig
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: BillyD on September 29, 2009, 09:36:08 PM
pimp smack doz hoz like u da boss ya dig



Messiah spits hot fiah. I've got the 808 warmed up and ready
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: JunkyII on September 29, 2009, 11:59:02 PM
Oh snap you bringin out da ghetto side of Junky, chunk up tha duece fools  :rock :devil
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: KG45 on September 30, 2009, 05:48:38 AM
if someone crosses your gun sight, pull the trigger and don't apologize.
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: mechanic on September 30, 2009, 09:04:35 AM
Come on now, at the end of the day, no one died.
Except you, Greens.
 :t

If it was just two people in the sector and he fired from an icon range merge you may have a case. But i've been there, trust me, and it turns out after much of my noobish whining that it was actualy my fault for not showing my guns untill we had crossed paths, to keep the merge head on. Cheap shot maybe in some situations(not saying now i dont see any film), but not a 'ho'.
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: SunBat on September 30, 2009, 09:32:47 AM
if someone crosses your gun sight, pull the trigger and don't apologize.

Won't have to. The bullets will be behind them.  :aok :D
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: Shuffler on September 30, 2009, 10:18:20 AM
Usually if I end up in a HO it is multiples on my 38 or I realized too late the con was not turning the other way but towards me.

My eyes aint what they used to be.

There are a lot of folks in game that are not here to fight. Some just want a kill no matter how they get it.
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: Scca on September 30, 2009, 11:28:47 AM
Greens accused me of HO'ing once...I was in a Wirble...

I say no HO, and greens is greens.  An endless source of misinformation and enjoyment.

<S>
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: CAP1 on September 30, 2009, 11:35:33 AM
Usually if I end up in a HO it is multiples on my 38 or I realized too late the con was not turning the other way but towards me.

 

would you believe i've only had this problem since the update?
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: saantana on September 30, 2009, 12:28:41 PM
Usually if I end up in a HO it is multiples on my 38 or I realized too late the con was not turning the other way but towards me.

My eyes aint what they used to be.

There are a lot of folks in game that are not here to fight. Some just want a kill no matter how they get it.

Correct on the last statement, but some are not.
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: Yarbles on October 01, 2009, 04:35:49 AM
Correct on the last statement, but some are not.

Some planes to me are natural Hoers in any situation becuase of their relative dissadvantage in manovres and ovewhelming fire power.

110 (Except when flown by Dastardly)
IL2
Mosquito

Especially when down low or on a different kind of mission as in Ground atack so:

Let an average pilot have a go and say.

1) I think in a combat as oppsed to dueling arana alot is in the initial merge and I would not merge against the 3 above which gave them any opportunity for a HO.

2) Why dont people apply the same thinking to every merge or risk a HO. It seems to me that is the next skill level especaially as you may find yourself fighting a total newb where the Ho is his only ACM?
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: Shuffler on October 01, 2009, 09:13:26 AM
Some planes to me are natural Hoers in any situation becuase of their relative dissadvantage in manovres and ovewhelming fire power.

110 (Except when flown by Dastardly)
IL2
Mosquito

Especially when down low or on a different kind of mission as in Ground atack so:

Let an average pilot have a go and say.

1) I think in a combat as oppsed to dueling arana alot is in the initial merge and I would not merge against the 3 above which gave them any opportunity for a HO.

2) Why dont people apply the same thinking to every merge or risk a HO. It seems to me that is the next skill level especaially as you may find yourself fighting a total newb where the Ho is his only ACM?

Add 190s, hurri2c spits
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: Yarbles on October 01, 2009, 09:22:16 AM
Add 190s, hurri2c spits

Spits and Hurri's dont need to Ho if the man at the controls has skill. Not sure about a 190 but it shouldnt be going for a ho if the pilot wants beeter than 1;1 k/d.

That is maybe a mjor point about the Ho er because of its random nature it is unlikely to give better than below average results but if you are fighting form a close to zero skill base it is all you have unless your plane is totally outclassed in a dog fite ;)
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: Shuffler on October 01, 2009, 09:24:13 AM
Spits and Hurri's dont need to Ho if the man at the controls has skill. Not sure about a 190 but it shouldnt be going for a ho if the pilot wants beeter than 1;1 k/d.

That is maybe a mjor point about the Ho er because of its random nature it is unlikely to give better than below average results but if you are fighting form a close to zero skill base it is all you have unless your plane is totally outclassed in a dog fite ;)

None need to HO. It is up to how confident the peeelot is in his own abilities. No confidence.... HO.
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: Yarbles on October 01, 2009, 09:34:43 AM
None need to HO. It is up to how confident the peeelot is in his own abilities. No confidence.... HO.

Even in Il2 ????? :huh :D
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: BnZs on October 01, 2009, 11:08:29 AM


If it was just two people in the sector and he fired from an icon range merge you may have a case. But i've been there, trust me, and it turns out after much of my noobish whining that it was actualy my fault for not showing my guns untill we had crossed paths, to keep the merge head on. Cheap shot maybe in some situations(not saying now i dont see any film), but not a 'ho'.


I can not understand the logic of this idea Bat. Flying with your guns on to the opponent until you pass does nothing to spoil their shot if they intend to HO you anyway.
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: Shuffler on October 01, 2009, 12:13:27 PM
An IL2 is a pretty good turn fighter.   :D
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: Yarbles on October 01, 2009, 12:17:32 PM
An IL2 is a pretty good turn fighter.   :D

Do you fancy a duel with my spit 9 :x
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: saantana on October 01, 2009, 12:33:42 PM
Really in most cases ho's are trivial to avoid, and they are easy to spot. If your opponent is coming at you with his nose pointed directly into you, expect a ho.
If the opponent moves slightly off your nose on the merge, but not enough for you not to be able to kick your rudder and muster a cheap shot, and (then) you call it (a) 'deflection shot', I will laugh at you every time.
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: JunkyII on October 01, 2009, 01:15:20 PM
Really in most cases ho's are trivial to avoid, and they are easy to spot. If your opponent is coming at you with his nose pointed directly into you, expect a ho.
If the opponent moves slightly off your nose on the merge, but not enough for you not to be able to kick your rudder and muster a cheap shot, and (then) you call it (a) 'deflection shot', I will laugh at you every time.
Very well put this has happened to me alot by even some sticks that I consider better then me, 1 was even a K4 pilot who hit me with a dud tator :D
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: Shuffler on October 01, 2009, 01:32:32 PM
Do you fancy a duel with my spit 9 :x

 :rofl
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: killrDan on October 01, 2009, 02:11:21 PM
It's not a HO. 1st merge, 2nd merge, 10th merge.  Looks like a clean shot to me.  I'd have taken it!    :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: Ack-Ack on October 02, 2009, 03:26:49 AM
You sure this here "wannabe" HO'd you?(http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/6444/scratchchin.gif) (http://img269.imageshack.us/i/scratchchin.gif/)


Ran into him tonight, shoot his Spitfire Mk IX down and he immediately cries HO.  He comes back in a F4U and what does he do on the merge?  He HO's, blazes past, turns hard to reverse and merge again and, you guessed it, tries to HO again. 


ack-ack
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: grizz441 on October 02, 2009, 05:17:00 AM
To me it looks like greens is completely ignoring ranger.  He slightly nosed down and kept his straight line vector.  I'll take this shot every single time if it looks like a plane is just trying to fly by me.

At the very least he should have tilted his wing to minimize his surface area as ranger attempted to shoot at him.  Lazy flying on greens part assuming ranger would miss the shot as he tried to fly by and run for his life.  Not a HO, not even a fight, perfectly legitimate shot in the MA and was probably the only one Ranger would get because after that pass, greens was on the deck and gone.  End of story.  Nice shot!  :aok
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: mechanic on October 02, 2009, 06:27:39 AM
I can not understand the logic of this idea Bat. Flying with your guns on to the opponent until you pass does nothing to spoil their shot if they intend to HO you anyway.



There is no logic to flying Head On if you think the other guy will fire, i agree. My description is just what makes a 'HO' or 'Front Quarter' shot one or the other. If you want to claim you were truly ho'ed you need to make sure you had your guns on them when they fired.

I am not advising it as a profitable merge tactic, just describing why i don't see that screen shot as a true HO shot. It's front quarter by definition not opinion.
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: saantana on October 02, 2009, 11:36:02 AM


There is no logic to flying Head On if you think the other guy will fire, i agree. My description is just what makes a 'HO' or 'Front Quarter' shot one or the other. If you want to claim you were truly ho'ed you need to make sure you had your guns on them when they fired.

I am not advising it as a profitable merge tactic, just describing why i don't see that screen shot as a true HO shot. It's front quarter by definition not opinion.

?

So if I was evading, and therefore my position would be not guns on and he takes the shot anyway, that's not a ho? Come on!
Ok, if you want to be that strict about the definition, I suggest another term. Ready?

DASHO

Deflection Angle Shot HO. Whose with me?  :confused:
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: morfiend on October 02, 2009, 11:47:42 AM
 In my opinion a "HO" is when both A/C have a shot at each other.

 If only 1 of the A/C has a shot,then I consider it an acute angle frontal attack!

As someone has already said,it depends on pilot confidence and ability whether he takes the shot.


 Would I have taken the shot in the pic of the OP,yes! anytime I can shoot and the other guy cant hit me I'll shoot.

 If some players consider this gamey,a "HO" or {insert any term here}well as the man said"opinions vary".......

   :salute
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: mechanic on October 02, 2009, 12:13:57 PM
?

So if I was evading, and therefore my position would be not guns on and he takes the shot anyway, that's not a ho? Come on!
Ok, if you want to be that strict about the definition, I suggest another term. Ready?



Lets try flipping that around, If the P51 had held his guns untill they crossed paths, would Ranger have fired?

You take evasive action when sure they other will fire, if not you are taking a small calculated risk to get an angle after the merge. Sometimes that risk doesnt pay off.

When it comes to definitions, a HO shot is one where both have a shot at the time, as stated above many times. A 'cheap shot' is a whole new topic for discussion.

Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: saantana on October 02, 2009, 12:42:16 PM

Lets try flipping that around, If the P51 had held his guns untill they crossed paths, would Ranger have fired?

From the discussion I think Yes.

You take evasive action when sure they other will fire, if not you are taking a small calculated risk to get an angle after the merge. Sometimes that risk doesnt pay off.

Well, I always try not to be pointed at his nose. The opposite usually results in a collision after I get hoed. That's why I don't understand why your guns would be pointed at me in the first place.

When it comes to definitions, a HO shot is one where both have a shot at the time, as stated above many times. A 'cheap shot' is a whole new topic for discussion.

I guess the thing I will take away from this discussion is the definition of a ho varies depending on the pilot. For those that like taking those shots, classifying them as legit by calling them a name other than a ho lets them feel less bad about it. I just prefer calling something by its name. Ho or cheap shot, they both fall into the same category.
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: mechanic on October 02, 2009, 12:59:10 PM
From the discussion I think Yes.

then it would have been a ho shot

Quote
Well, I always try not to be pointed at his nose. The opposite usually results in a collision after I get hoed. That's why I don't understand why your guns would be pointed at me in the first place.

Again you confusing terminology with what is practical. Define HO shot, both guns pointing at each other, end of story. I did not say what i thought was a good tactic for anything.

Quote
I guess the thing I will take away from this discussion is the definition of a ho varies depending on the pilot. For those that like taking those shots, classifying them as legit by calling them a name other than a ho lets them feel less bad about it. I just prefer calling something by its name. Ho or cheap shot, they both fall into the same category.

Not at all, there are many forms of cheap shot but  one true HO shot. What we have here is like chinese whispers, the definitions warp over time. Cherry pick is another excuse that has become blown out of proportions, for example.
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: saantana on October 02, 2009, 03:59:57 PM
I believe we are dancing around the same thing. Your arguing that crying HO is not technically correct. I'm arguing the name can be used with this kind of shot, because it just sounds cooler instead of saying cheap shot.
I feel we're not going to come to a full agreement. Congrats on coming 2nd in BaldEagles tournament thought, I'm going to watch those films soon.

 :salute
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: grizz441 on October 02, 2009, 05:07:40 PM
I believe we are dancing around the same thing. Your arguing that crying HO is not technically correct. I'm arguing the name can be used with this kind of shot, because it just sounds cooler instead of saying cheap shot.

I think you guys are missing the bigger picture.  If they were actually engaging each other for a fight this might be a cheap shot/HO.  But it's clear that greens is just ignoring Ranger all together, diving for speed and probably going to make a pass at  Ranger's ally and then dive for the deck and run for his life.  There is no fight going on here at all, it's just a standard MA encounter and completely legitimate of a shot.  Greens shouldn't have whined about getting killed, it was his own fault for flying lazily past Ranger without even attempting to avoid him.
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: mechanic on October 02, 2009, 05:37:08 PM
I could call your a giraffe just because it may sound cooler, but you're still a human.
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: saantana on October 02, 2009, 05:40:21 PM
I rest my case.  :cry
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: CAP1 on October 02, 2009, 05:51:47 PM
t for flying lazily past Ranger without even attempting to avoid him.

as much as i love the fights........

there is a certain pleasure in managing to sneak up on someone. ya get on their 6 low(so they don't notice ya), get to 200, and BLAM!! watch em twitch n snap-stall trying to avoid the inevitable.

 i dunno what it is about that........

i actually had a PERFECT shot lined up on a 110 that flew right by me...2k to my left, never saw me. i did a lazy descending turn, was 400 out, going for that "fill the windscreen" picture. then here comes a countryman haulin arse in his spit diving on him, shoots, and MISSES, but still alerts the 110 to trouble. i still got him, as he rolled and pulled hard, i was able to rudder enough to clip his wing...that combined with the hard maneuver, he spun in.  :devil
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: USRanger on October 02, 2009, 07:13:36 PM
Wow, quite the discussion became of this.  Santaana is pretty good at figuring out me, my flying style, my "cheap shots", etc. from 2 pics.  Quite the gift ya got there bub. ;)  I guess I need to find a place to put the film up to put it to rest (my PC doesn't like Mediafire).  As for Kermit, I'll show him the "lesser man" in the upcoming scenario when my T-34s are rolling over his buddies. :aok  As for right this second, I can only post a few more screenies for argument's sake.  I used a red line to show where a HO shot actually would have came from (or until Santaana tells me I'm wrong :D).  Anyone notice the hit sprites are to the cockpit->aft, none to the front half of his plane?  A little more background:  It was an 8 on 5, I received a check 6, high yo-yo'd to the left, as I came around there was the pony flying straight & level (not engaging me).  Actually he was running from 3 friendlies of mine that were about 2k behind him.  Had I not gotten a check6 he would have been on my dead 6, but did not follow my yo-yo & kept going straight (to get away from my friendlies).  I honestly don't know if he ever even saw me, even when I was at his 12 with my rear to him.  For all I know, he could've been looking behind him the entire time at the other planes on his 6, smacking his kids, rolling a doobie, etc.  All I was stating was that it wasn't a HO as accused.

Is my plane anywhere near the red line where a HO would have came from?

(http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/6343/85628886.jpg) (http://img134.imageshack.us/i/85628886.jpg/)

(http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/1320/94137504.jpg) (http://img141.imageshack.us/i/94137504.jpg/)

(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/1337/67479534.jpg) (http://img42.imageshack.us/i/67479534.jpg/)

(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/2416/77034333.jpg) (http://img42.imageshack.us/i/77034333.jpg/)

I've never started or taken part in a discussion like this.  This is fun! Weeeee!!! :D
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: Ack-Ack on October 02, 2009, 07:17:55 PM
That was pretty much the angle and shot I took on him last night when I ran into him flying a Spitfire Mk IX and as I posted earlier, didn't stop him from whining about a HO nor did it stop him from trying to HO me twice when I ran into him in a F4U afterwards.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: Nemisis on October 02, 2009, 07:20:11 PM
You sure this here "wannabe" HO'd you?(http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/6444/scratchchin.gif) (http://img269.imageshack.us/i/scratchchin.gif/)

(http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/3871/15114355.jpg) (http://img39.imageshack.us/i/15114355.jpg/)

Normally I wouldn't care, but you seemed like such an unpleasant little fellow.


Looks like its outa "that other game"...
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: JunkyII on October 03, 2009, 01:44:35 AM
Wow, quite the discussion became of this.  Santaana is pretty good at figuring out me, my flying style, my "cheap shots", etc. from 2 pics.  Quite the gift ya got there bub. ;)  I guess I need to find a place to put the film up to put it to rest (my PC doesn't like Mediafire).  As for Kermit, I'll show him the "lesser man" in the upcoming scenario when my T-34s are rolling over his buddies. :aok  As for right this second, I can only post a few more screenies for argument's sake.  I used a red line to show where a HO shot actually would have came from (or until Santaana tells me I'm wrong :D).  Anyone notice the hit sprites are to the cockpit->aft, none to the front half of his plane?  A little more background:  It was an 8 on 5, I received a check 6, high yo-yo'd to the left, as I came around there was the pony flying straight & level (not engaging me).  Actually he was running from 3 friendlies of mine that were about 2k behind him.  Had I not gotten a check6 he would have been on my dead 6, but did not follow my yo-yo & kept going straight (to get away from my friendlies).  I honestly don't know if he ever even saw me, even when I was at his 12 with my rear to him.  For all I know, he could've been looking behind him the entire time at the other planes on his 6, smacking his kids, rolling a doobie, etc.  All I was stating was that it wasn't a HO as accused.

Is my plane anywhere near the red line where a HO would have came from?

(http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/6343/85628886.jpg) (http://img134.imageshack.us/i/85628886.jpg/)

(http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/1320/94137504.jpg) (http://img141.imageshack.us/i/94137504.jpg/)

(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/1337/67479534.jpg) (http://img42.imageshack.us/i/67479534.jpg/)

(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/2416/77034333.jpg) (http://img42.imageshack.us/i/77034333.jpg/)

I've never started or taken part in a discussion like this.  This is fun! Weeeee!!! :D
horrible skin Ranger use a better one next time and it isnt a HO :D
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: EskimoJoe on October 03, 2009, 03:06:51 AM
Greens still probably saw it as a HO with his connection  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: SlapShot on October 05, 2009, 12:18:05 PM
I'm arguing the name can be used with this kind of shot, because it just sounds cooler instead of saying cheap shot.

Looks like a crappy merge by the P-51 and a nice deflection shot by Ranger ... I see nothing cheap there.
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: morfiend on October 05, 2009, 12:59:29 PM
Looks like a crappy merge by the P-51 and a nice deflection shot by Ranger ... I see nothing cheap there.


 agreed!
Title: Re: Hey greens
Post by: Shuffler on October 05, 2009, 01:39:42 PM
Looks like a crappy merge by the P-51 and a nice deflection shot by Ranger ... I see nothing cheap there.

+1