Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: bustr on October 02, 2009, 09:18:18 PM

Title: Yak3
Post by: bustr on October 02, 2009, 09:18:18 PM
From some recent reading I did about the Yak3, it seems to be a smaller, faster and more maneuverable version of the Yak9U we have in the game. I realise it has the same gun package, but what would it's impact be in the LW arenas? The Yak9U has a small enough profile to require well placed shots to hit it along with it's high top end speed at LWMA furball alts. I've flown against Chanzz enough to respect the 9U's real top end performance qualities.

So what could be expected if HiTech threw it into the mix?
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: Ack-Ack on October 02, 2009, 10:30:42 PM
IIRC about the Yak 3, if introduced in the game, it will make the "Perk the La7" whines sound like distant whimper in the wind and replaced with the thunder clap bellow of "PERK THE YAK 3!!!!!!"


ack-ack
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: Nemisis on October 02, 2009, 10:56:43 PM
Well yeah, but 99.99999999% of those are just going to be squeakes with dreams of being an ace, and beating all who oppose them, only to realize its harder to play than they think when they engage an ace in yak3 when its their first flight WHILE flying an overloaded Fw190A8 without using WEP, and using improper technique...
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: Karnak on October 03, 2009, 12:02:16 AM
IIRC about the Yak 3, if introduced in the game, it will make the "Perk the La7" whines sound like distant whimper in the wind and replaced with the thunder clap bellow of "PERK THE YAK 3!!!!!!"


ack-ack
Nonsense.

The Yak-3 would hardly make a splash due to its limited endurance, firepower and ammo.  Performance wise it would be a slightly snappier Yak-9U with a lower top speed.


The WWII Yak-3 was powered by the VK105 engine, not the more powerful VK107 that produced the incredible performance.  The Yak-9U does have a VK107 though.
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 03, 2009, 12:31:34 AM
Yup, Karnak is right that the Yak-3 was slower than the Yak-9U.
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: trotter on October 03, 2009, 04:10:16 AM
What would happen if HTC threw it into the mix? We'd have a more balanced, better "special event ready" planeset. This can be said about many potential additions.

I personally think it would be great, but does the Grapevine crew have the performance data, dimensions and *time* to be able to add it to the game? Who knows. I am glad we are adding new planes at the rate we are, and anything new is a bonus. Yak-3 would be a nice bonus, though.
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: Bruv119 on October 03, 2009, 05:44:29 AM
+1

Yak3 =  Spit 5 on uber steroids. 
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: Nemisis on October 03, 2009, 11:23:57 AM
hehehehe, unless I've got the wrong plane then it would be like the 109G-2 on steroids.
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: AWwrgwy on October 03, 2009, 02:13:02 PM
Slower?  It's always been my understanding that the Yak3 was one of the fastes prop planes of WWII. 

I always imagined it being a Yak9 that you couldn't run from.



wrongway
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: Nemisis on October 03, 2009, 02:24:26 PM
Well the smaller engine might not matter if it has less drag, and less wight. And at what alt is it fastest at?
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: Karnak on October 03, 2009, 03:01:59 PM
Slower?  It's always been my understanding that the Yak3 was one of the fastes prop planes of WWII. 

I always imagined it being a Yak9 that you couldn't run from.



wrongway
That is because people always talk about the VK107 powered Yak-3 that saw service in Korea.  The post WWII Yak-3 climbs at over 5,000fpm and had an almost 450mph top speed.  The VK105 powered Yak-3 from WWII doesn't come close to those numbers.  It is the same what people talk about how the P-61 is a fast fighter, when the WWII versions were slower than the N1K2-J.
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: Nemisis on October 03, 2009, 03:40:18 PM
Ah, I see...
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: Masherbrum on October 03, 2009, 03:59:59 PM
I'd rather see the Mig-3.   Bring a Mig to AH. 
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: bustr on October 03, 2009, 07:11:32 PM
If you want the early soviet plane set that replaced the I16...

Lagg1\3
Mig3 <--- Yes I know above 16k this was a monster. It only had 4 MG. At MA alts the C202 would own it.
Yak1

Other than scenarios, the historic performance problems with these planes would make them un-popular in the MA.

If we can step out of our biases, what would the Yak3 be like in normal MA play?
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: WWhiskey on October 03, 2009, 08:35:27 PM
yak -3 came after the 9 although the designs were started first,and it was faster as far as anything i have ever read! it was smaller and lighter, i do not remeber about the motor, but i do know i have read that it could have been the best fighter of the war, with the exeption of amount of rounds, as is with all yaks!
 i have been wanting it for as long as i have been playing and there are many threads about it, just do a search!
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: Nemisis on October 03, 2009, 08:40:01 PM
yak -3 came after the 9 although the designs were started first,and it was faster as far as anything i have ever read! it was smaller and lighter, i do not remeber about the motor, but i do know i have read that it could have been the best fighter of the war, with the exeption of amount of rounds, as is with all yaks!
 i have been wanting it for as long as i have been playing and there are many threads about it, just do a search!



Just throwing this out there, but Ive heard that the Yak-9 didn't have an ammo counter.....
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: WWhiskey on October 03, 2009, 08:46:04 PM


Just throwing this out there, but Ive heard that the Yak-9 didn't have an ammo counter.....
they all had ammo counters! you pull the trigger and nothing comes out, that is zero!  lol     

just funnin  :salute
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: Nemisis on October 03, 2009, 09:04:13 PM
they all had ammo counters! you pull the trigger and nothing comes out, that is zero!  lol     

just funnin  :salute



Lol  :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl. But serisouly, can anyone tell me if that true. I mean thats what I heard they used as ammo counters. You shoot but nothing comes out and you head home. Ive also heard that one of the Yak9 modles didn't have a fuel gauge, and they had to guess how much fuel they had....
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: AWwrgwy on October 03, 2009, 09:48:35 PM


Lol  :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl. But serisouly, can anyone tell me if that true. I mean thats what I heard they used as ammo counters. You shoot but nothing comes out and you head home.

You mean like P-51's, P-47's, F4u's, etc.?

The only "ammo counters" I've seen are in German aircraft.

All the accounts I've read of American pilots speak of a burst of solid tracers to warn of the impending end of gun fire.

Ammo counters are for dummies who play games.

 :D

wrongway
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: Nemisis on October 03, 2009, 10:06:37 PM
You mean like P-51's, P-47's, F4u's, etc.?

The only "ammo counters" I've seen are in German aircraft.

All the accounts I've read of American pilots speak of a burst of solid tracers to warn of the impending end of gun fire.

Ammo counters are for dummies who play games.

 :D

wrongway


Yes like the ones we have in the game. Are you telling me that WWII pilots didn't have those?
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: Karnak on October 03, 2009, 11:39:26 PM

Yes like the ones we have in the game. Are you telling me that WWII pilots didn't have those?
Very much so.  Some German fighters had little bars that shrank as ammo was used, when the bar was gone, no shooting.

Other pilots just had to keep track of it mentally.  The tracer thing was used, but some pilots didn't like it as it told your enemy you were almost out of ammo too.
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: Ruler2 on October 03, 2009, 11:59:27 PM

. Ive also heard that one of the Yak9 modles didn't have a fuel gauge, and they had to guess how much fuel they had....


Wow. Surely they had a psychic course to counter this?   :rofl
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: Nemisis on October 04, 2009, 12:14:33 PM
Thats what I've heard, they took new pilots up with an instructor in a trainer, and had the recruits find how much fuel they had based on fuel capacity, fuel burn, flight time, and manifold preasure...
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 04, 2009, 12:20:15 PM
Many aircraft that we fly in AH did not have ammo counters, aileron/rudder trim, autopilot, automatic mixture/pitch, automatic radiator/cowl flaps, etc.  There was a lot more work to do in managing the aircraft's systems on top of flying.
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: gpwurzel on October 04, 2009, 12:32:10 PM
How can you not want something like this ingame?

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f80/wurzeluk/Duxford%202008/DUXFORDAIRSHOW034.jpg)

Taken in Duxford 2008

Wurzel
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: BlauK on October 04, 2009, 12:39:37 PM
A lovely TARGET :) :aok
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: USCH on October 04, 2009, 12:45:46 PM

Yes like the ones we have in the game. Are you telling me that WWII pilots didn't have those?
correct... as far as i have seen only german 's had them and not in all aircraft eather.... our ammo counters are just for us
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: Nemisis on October 04, 2009, 12:57:59 PM
A lovely TARGET :) :aok


IDK, looks pretty deadly to MW standards, and looks decent by LW standards....
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: AWwrgwy on October 04, 2009, 01:35:41 PM

IDK, looks pretty deadly to MW standards, and looks decent by LW standards....

Seeing service primarily in 1945, it would be quite deadly in MW.   ;)

RE: Ammo counters, etc. 

I read somewhere that some Russian A/C also didn't have artificial horizons.  The hole was there in the dash but it was empty.  I found this significant when the LA was remodeled and had an empty hole or two in the dash that was eventually filled.


wrongway
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: Nemisis on October 04, 2009, 02:21:20 PM
I guess the Russians thought planes AND pilots were replacable...
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: Nisky on October 04, 2009, 03:51:01 PM
I would love to see a yak-3, mig-3, and a lagg-3 in game i believe ivan and the italians are a lil short on the plane list.
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: BlauK on October 05, 2009, 06:31:17 AM

IDK, looks pretty deadly to MW standards, and looks decent by LW standards....

I was not referring to its performance in any way. I just would not fly it myself, but would welcome it as a new opponent.
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: Nemisis on October 05, 2009, 06:20:17 PM
I was not referring to its performance in any way. I just would not fly it myself, but would welcome it as a new opponent.



Yeah, not like hurricane with the 4 303 turret they called the "defiant". Didn't look very defiant. You almost had to have someone on your 6 to hit them.
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: Karnak on October 05, 2009, 06:38:11 PM


Yeah, not like hurricane with the 4 303 turret they called the "defiant". Didn't look very defiant. You almost had to have someone on your 6 to hit them.
The Defiant wasn't related to the Hurricane in any way though it does bear a superficial resemblance.   In fact, the first air-to-air combat of Defiants vs Bf109s was a slaughter.....of Bf109s as they mistook them for a Hurricane squadron caught unaware.  As soon as the Germans learned what it was, it was helpless.
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: Nemisis on October 05, 2009, 06:41:25 PM
I know its only superficial....and in similar speed.....
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: Karnak on October 05, 2009, 07:08:40 PM
I know its only superficial....and in similar speed.....
Slower actually, topped out at 303mph.
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: Nemisis on October 05, 2009, 08:38:49 PM
lol, serisouly?

But back to the Yak3...
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: sandwich on October 05, 2009, 08:50:13 PM
we should add it and add the 3 20mm as a perked loadout.
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: Nemisis on October 05, 2009, 09:03:25 PM
hmmm, a longer ranged La-7? I think I like this.... Serisouly sandwich, thats a good idea. And did you get ahold of TheAce yet?
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: sandwich on October 05, 2009, 09:14:16 PM
nope

havent played in a couple days.

Can you tell him to pm me.

Im very inconsistent with my playing time lately.
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: Nemisis on October 05, 2009, 09:25:31 PM
Sure thing  :aok.
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: KgB on October 05, 2009, 10:11:40 PM
I guess the Russians thought planes AND pilots were replacable...
Guess again
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: Gabriel on October 06, 2009, 12:24:25 PM
I guess the Russians thought planes AND pilots were replacable...

Soviet pilots received more flight hours in training after 1943 then their counterparts. Post Kursk the loss ratio had shrunk down to 3 VVS losses for every 2 Luftwaffe as Soviet production started replacing obsolete types and training improved to superior levels.
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: BlauK on October 06, 2009, 01:02:55 PM
Any sources for these claims?
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: Noir on October 06, 2009, 01:38:41 PM
Any sources for these claims?

yes, see my signature
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: Gabriel on October 06, 2009, 05:29:14 PM
Any sources for these claims?

Bergström , Stalingrad: The Air Battle: 1942-January 1943

As a result, the Soviets were able to build the Red Banner units, units of highly skilled fighter pilots. Just six months after Kursk, the ratio of Soviet to German aircraft losses had fallen from 4:1 to 3:2'

As the German fuel situation became desperate into 44/45 it is hardly surprising that they afforded less flight time to trainees.
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: cegull on October 06, 2009, 09:58:04 PM
The logical choice for a perk plane would be a Yak-3p.  It had more horsepower and 3 shvak 20mm cannon in the nose .  The Yak 3 family of AC were very effective because they reached top speed ( a shade over 400mph) at around 10,000ft.  The Lufftwaffe gave warnings to its pilots to not engage any Yak with the air scoop under the fuselage at lower altitude.  The Normandy-Neimen squadron picked the Yak3 over US/Brit fighters.  Used to be a bright red Yak-3 parked at the Shafter Warbirds Museum just north of Bakersfield, California.
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: Sombra on October 06, 2009, 10:49:04 PM
That is because people always talk about the VK107 powered Yak-3 that saw service in Korea.  The post WWII Yak-3 climbs at over 5,000fpm and had an almost 450mph top speed.  The VK105 powered Yak-3 from WWII doesn't come close to those numbers.  It is the same what people talk about how the P-61 is a fast fighter, when the WWII versions were slower than the N1K2-J.

In Korea there were Yak-9P (VK107), not Yak-3 IIRC.
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: sandwich on October 06, 2009, 10:52:14 PM
From what ive read the 3 20mm plus ammo weighed less than the standard loadout of the yak 3.
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: Nemisis on October 06, 2009, 10:57:04 PM
lol, really? And those 20's are  like 9 .50's in the nose. Thats some REAL hitting power....
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: BlauK on October 07, 2009, 01:49:23 AM
Bergström , Stalingrad: The Air Battle: 1942-January 1943


Thanks Gabriel  :aok
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: WMLute on October 07, 2009, 07:51:10 AM
lol, really? And those 20's are  like 9 .50's in the nose. Thats some REAL hitting power....

Huge balistic difference between most all 20mm's and the .50 cals.
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: Gabriel on October 07, 2009, 08:33:41 AM
Thanks Gabriel  :aok

It is a good read and I enjoyed it very much

<S>
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: PJ_Godzilla on October 07, 2009, 09:18:34 AM
Many aircraft that we fly in AH did not have ammo counters, aileron/rudder trim, autopilot, automatic mixture/pitch, automatic radiator/cowl flaps, etc.  There was a lot more work to do in managing the aircraft's systems on top of flying.

Indeed. My squad leader kind of laughed at me when I asked if I needed to set pitch and rad flap.

Even now, here in the auto industry, we're just transitioning over to an automatic grill shutter as an FE action. Why? Clearly, you need to present less area to freestream as speeds increase and the rad is a pretty substantial chunk of your drag.

So it was with WWII fighters - they'd choke down that airflow over the rad as ambient freestream temps decreased and as speed increased. Of course, it's not quite the same because they also had decreasing density and that impacts the heat transfer.

Anyway, we've got automated systems in AHII that make it look like they had PCBs in WWII. I've acquired a lot of respect for those guys the flew and lived through the war.

Also, it looks as though, per FW189 and AR240 (and I think the D-9 had some attempt at this) there were some novel approaches to automating either of these tasks - all sans electronics, of course.

As for the Yak 3,  :aok MORE IS MORE, therefore BETTER, or as Stalin said, quantity has a quality all it's own.

Warbirds has a Yak-3.

I still want my damn 410 more than anything, though. It'll be a fine bird in which to get shot down. I'm really looking forward to taking a lead shot without this donkey dong of a long nose obscuring the view. My gunnery is, I've determined, the main thing holding me back. If I could just land 2%, life would be sweet.
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: Nemisis on October 07, 2009, 05:01:14 PM
Huge balistic difference between most all 20mm's and the .50 cals.


Yeah, balistics might be bad, or they might be great depending on wich cannon the plane has (hispanos are close to 50's IMO) and the russian cannons aren't as good, but a 20mm shell is a 20mm shell, and theres no changing how much explosives it packs by balistics.
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: sandwich on October 07, 2009, 07:13:49 PM
lol, really? And those 20's are  like 9 .50's in the nose. Thats some REAL hitting power....

I have no idea where i read it.

What we should really have is the yak 9k.

45mm cannon!!!
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: Nemisis on October 07, 2009, 08:06:25 PM
screw that, lets make them 120mm costal defense guns :D....
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: sandwich on October 07, 2009, 08:17:25 PM
Only if we can put them on our yak.

*cough* photoshop *cough*
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: Nemisis on October 07, 2009, 08:45:40 PM
Fine, I'll get on it...

*cough* with photoshop *cough*


now, is there a free download of photoshop?
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: sandwich on October 07, 2009, 08:54:26 PM
(http://www.smilespedia.com/wp-content/gallery/smilespedia/where-can-i-download-phohoshop.gif)
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: Nemisis on October 07, 2009, 09:41:47 PM
damn, how much will it set me back?


BTW, I told ace to PM you, did he ever get a hold of you? Or you could just "join" on the site, talk with him, and decide then....
Title: Re: Yak3
Post by: save on October 09, 2009, 06:10:47 AM
You dont want another yak , just give the axis 500-1000lb extra weight, like they already did on 190a8
That will teach them to fly allied planes  :cool: