Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: RufusLeaking on October 06, 2009, 08:36:20 AM
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Let’s keep this thread as a calm and rational discussion of the recent ENY changes. Emotional outbursts and name calling can be posted on the other 12,000 threads.
Not being a regular in EW, MW or AvA, I haven’t looked into ENY changes in these arenas, if any.
Here is a summary of ENY changes between LW Tours 116 and 117.
Model type ENY -116 ENY - 117 Delta
A-20G 25 15 -10
Bf 109G-14 20 25 5
Bf 110C-4b 35 40 5
Brewster B-239 25 30 5
C.205 20 25 5
F4F-4 20 35 15
F4U-1D 15 10 -5
FM2 20 25 5
Fw 190A-8 31 25 -6
Fw 190F-8 20 25 5
Hurricane Mk IIC 10 12 2
I-16 30 35 5
Il-2 25 20 -5
Ki-61 25 30 5
Ki-84-Ia 15 20 5
La-5FN 20 25 5
La-7 5 8 3
LVTA4 40 35 -5
M-8 40 35 -5
Mosquito Mk VI 25 30 5
N1K2 5 8 3
P-38L 20 15 -5
P-39D 30 35 5
P-39Q 20 30 10
P-40E 30 35 5
P-47-D11 25 30 5
P-47-D25 22 25 3
P-47N 5 10 5
P-51D 8 5 -3
Spitfire Mk V 25 30 5
Ta 152H 5 10 5
Typhoon IB 10 8 -2
Wirbelwind 25 15 -10
Yak-9T 25 30 5
Yak-9U 20 23 3
[How does one get a table to display properly on this board?]
Everything in this OP is what I know of ENY. Any errors will be vigorously pointed out by the community, I am sure.
I have not seen published rationale for the values assigned to various aircraft. There are two effects of ENY: restrictions on availability when the numbers of players per team is significantly unbalanced, and to calculate the value in perk points earned for different match ups.
The availability restrictions seem affect game play more often and more materially. It is not unusual to see the ENY pop over 10. A value of 20 is much less common. I believe the maximum is 29, which is rarely seen. Freakishly high ENY values are usually associated with off hours, arena changes, etc.
Is there any data out there on the time spent at various ENYs? I am sure that more time is spent between 5 and 8 than 20 and 25. How much effect is there in terms of time? For example, how much more time will the P-51D be unavailable per month now that it is 5 instead of 8?
The fact that ENY values are used in the calculation of perk points earned really matters more to those who like to fly perked planes. It seems that experienced guys are more likely to be motivated by this. All things being equal, there should be a direct correlation between difficulty of scoring kills and ENY.
One idea that came and went in my mind was that of sliding ENYs. The ENY of any given plane would go up and down based on how many were in the air for a country at any given time. I haven’t thought out the actual formula. There would be a base value which would change dynamically in response to the arena. Maybe there could be a little lag to allow the big Pony hordes a chance to lift. It would make re-arming a restricted plane more important and plane damage more significant as it would possibly require one to tower out and lose the restricted ride, at least for a little while. This idea is not good as it would cause more grief to newbies as opposed to vets who would hold the rides longer on average.
Another thought is to spend perk points for the difference between the ENY value of the airplane and the current arena ENY. If you want a ride that badly, you can always pay for it.
I find it interesting which planes have been changed and in which directions. A negative delta would mean HTC is reducing the incentive to fly a plane and increasing the value of shooting it down. A positive delta is opposite, of course. Apparently, HTC wants to see many more F4F-4s and less A-20Gs.
Personally, I have no strong feelings either way as I like planes like the C.205, Yak-9U and the I-16. I rarely up perked planes, though I will grab a Tiger now and then.
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Well, lets see what effetcs on AC usage the new ENY values will have. I think it will not change the game alot, but some things can be predicted.
For instance, we will see an increase in LA7 usage and a decline in P51 usage. Now the LA is safer from ENY effects than the 51D, previously it was the opposite.
Planes like the P-39Q and F4F-4 will get more usage, their previous rating of 20 was way off. With the new values, they are a much more attractive perk-earn platform.
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Well, lets see what effetcs on AC usage the new ENY values will have. I think it will not change the game alot, but some things can be predicted.
For instance, we will see an increase in LA7 usage and a decline in P51 usage. Now the LA is safer from ENY effects than the 51D, previously it was the opposite.
Planes like the P-39Q and F4F-4 will get more usage, their previous rating of 20 was way off. With the new values, they are a much more attractive perk-earn platform.
there were more 262's and 163's than i'm accustomed to seeing last night.
the 163's seemed to be flown aggressivly, the 262s seemed to be flown very timidly.
i could be wrong.......
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Yup 262s and 163s seemed to be everywhere.
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Yup 262s and 163s seemed to be everywhere.
so it was both lw arenas?
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How do you make decisions based on ENY?..... For me Eny only comes into play when i am forced to look at it.
Isn't ENY a reactive system not a proactive one?. If perk values go down we will see a bunch of easy kills like last night saw a bunch of chogs 163..ect flown by noobs. I mean they were augering into the runway for pete sake.
Perk value wont change the way th egame is played for players that have been around for a while.
<S>
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I am amazed at all the talk about eny when it only affects those who do not even sides.
Still a non-issue.
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the 163's seemed to be flown aggressivly, the 262s seemed to be flown very timidly.
Your observation is completely explained by the performance of those aircraft. The 262 takes a long time to accelerate and doesn't turn well, while the 163 handles like a Spit XVI, and accelerates like, well, like a rocket plane.
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I am amazed at all the talk about eny when it only affects those who do not even sides.
Still a non-issue.
No, it does affect everyone in terms of perks/kill.
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Your observation is completely explained by the performance of those aircraft. The 262 takes a long time to accelerate and doesn't turn well, while the 163 handles like a Spit XVI, and accelerates like, well, like a rocket plane.
:rofl
:aok
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Your observation is completely explained by the performance of those aircraft. The 262 takes a long time to accelerate and doesn't turn well, while the 163 handles like a Spit XVI, and accelerates like, well, like a rocket plane.
good point......i hadn't thought of it that way.
one of the 262's did come down to tangle, but only after he had a corsair to back him up. someone else came in, and popped the corsair, and the 262 extended a couple sectors immediately afterward.
it's hard for me to dodge those dam things, as i'm not used to judging such a high closure rate.
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it only affects those who do not even sides.
Which are the vast majority of players.
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Which are the vast majority of players.
Their choice.
As I said in another thread... for someone to complain about eny is like going out and buying a green car then complaining because you don't like green.
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What I find odd about ENY now is the P51 which was numerous in WWII is now less available than the Ta-152 which was as scarce as a green-haired rabbit.
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What I find odd about ENY now is the P51 which was numerous in WWII is now less available than the Ta-152 which was as scarce as a green-haired rabbit.
Nonsense. You're still going to see x10^3 more P-51Ds in the arena than Ta-152s, and that might be a conservative estimate.
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Use space bar if u not gonna post a picture.
Model type ENY -116 ENY - 117 Delta
A-20G 25 15 -10
Bf 109G-14 20 25 5
Bf 110C-4b 35 40 5
Brewster B-239 25 30 5
C.205 20 25 5
F4F-4 20 35 15
F4U-1D 15 10 -5
FM2 20 25 5
Fw 190A-8 31 25 -6
Fw 190F-8 20 25 5
Hurricane Mk IIC 10 12 2
I-16 30 35 5
Il-2 25 20 -5
Ki-61 25 30 5
Ki-84-Ia 15 20 5
La-5FN 20 25 5
La-7 5 8 3
LVTA4 40 35 -5
M-8 40 35 -5
Mosquito Mk VI 25 30 5
N1K2 5 8 3
P-38L 20 15 -5
P-39D 30 35 5
P-39Q 20 30 10
P-40E 30 35 5
P-47-D11 25 30 5
P-47-D25 22 25 3
P-47N 5 10 5
P-51D 8 5 -3
Spitfire Mk V 25 30 5
Ta 152H 5 10 5
Typhoon IB 10 8 -2
Wirbelwind 25 15 -10
Yak-9T 25 30 5
Yak-9U 20 23 3
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What I find odd about ENY now is the P51 which was numerous in WWII is now less available than the Ta-152 which was as scarce as a green-haired rabbit.
ENY is not about how common a plane was.
BTW.. This tour with new ENY so far:
P-51D 8152 kills+deaths
TA 152H 797 kills+deaths
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Im not disputing how many kills a plane can get Snailman... even if the Ta-152 is flown by every noob its still a tough plane to fly and hard to get kills with for the standard arena pilot. I dont know exactly what the kill+deaths tally means though.
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I dont know exactly what the kill+deaths tally means though.
A rough measure for the prevalence of a fighter. A very common plane like the 51 or Spit 16 will get a huge number, a rare plane like the P-40B a small one.
Im not disputing how many kills a plane can get Snailman... even if the Ta-152 is flown by every noob its still a tough plane to fly and hard to get kills with for the standard arena pilot.
And that's why you do not count kills alone to determine "usage"
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just a note here ...
there is no block # after the D on the p51-D in the game, however since it has the rockets so i am guessing it must be a block 25 or later variant which dates it some time late summer early fall 1944 ...
not sure how relevant that is to the ENY decisions but it does have a bearing on the historic discussion of what was flying around when and how much etc. etc., as there were none of that specific type until the last 6-8 months of the war, and even then they were mostly trickling in as replacements.
i am not sure when or if any groups fully converted or were completely re-supplied with the d-25 or later pony before the end of hostilities in the ETO ...
maybe some experts can shed some more light on this.
++S++
t
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What I find odd about ENY now is the P51 which was numerous in WWII is now less available than the Ta-152 which was as scarce as a green-haired rabbit.
i like seeing low 152's. :devil
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Not on the Bish side.......... :confused:
Yup 262s and 163s seemed to be everywhere.
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The zero rail rocket launcher provisions were added to the D model in Dec 1944 in Dallas and in January 1945 in California. February 1944 would be the earliest D model with six guns. I just noticed the D model has 20 gallons less fuel reported on the AH Wiki than the B model and they should be the same.
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oh ok, so then the pony-d in the game is a 1945 version? which means it post dates the 262 and dora, anybody know if that is after the 163 and ta-152? i'd have to check on those 2 ...
+S+
t
The zero rail rocket launcher provisions were added to the D model in Dec 1944 in Dallas and in January 1945 in California. February 1944 would be the earliest D model with six guns. I just noticed the D model has 20 gallons less fuel reported on the AH Wiki than the B model and they should be the same.
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Its only a 1945 model if it carries rockets.
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Its only a 1945 model if it carries rockets.
no it is a 1945 model all the time because it can carry rockets ...
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Im not disputing how many kills a plane can get Snailman... even if the Ta-152 is flown by every noob its still a tough plane to fly and hard to get kills with for the standard arena pilot. I dont know exactly what the kill+deaths tally means though.
I find it very little, if any, harder to get kills in than the Pony when flying both as a b'n'z fighter. The fact that it only takes *one* ping with the 30mm does alot to make up for the 152's instability as a gun platform. The fact that it has two 20mms backing you up if you miss with the tater, and the fact you have a relatively generous supply of taters, eases the gunnery difficulties.
When you get down to nitty-gritty dogfighting the 152 is more likely to bite you in the bellybutton in a stall, but is also ultimately can do more against a wider variety of planes because it retains E so darn well.
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no it is a 1945 model all the time because it can carry rockets ...
No the only difference in the two is the zero rail rocket stubs which are not present if you dont load rockets. On the real 1945 model they would not ever be removed so it is only a 1945 model if you load rockets.
I think there may have even been a four gun D model prior to January 1944
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i am sure that works for you but if the option was only available on the 1945 plane and it is available on the FM in game than the FM represents the 1945 version ...
it's pretty simple, really ...
no offense
+S+
t
No the only difference in the two is the zero rail rocket stubs which are not present if you dont load rockets. On the real 1945 model they would not ever be removed so it is only a 1945 model if you load rockets.
I think there may have even been a four gun D model prior to January 1944
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one of the 262's did come down to tangle, but only after he had a corsair to back him up. someone else came in, and popped the corsair, and the 262 extended a couple sectors immediately afterward.
it's hard for me to dodge those dam things, as i'm not used to judging such a high closure rate.
Selective memory there Cap:) My selective memory has it like this:
38 and a 190 had dove on a 262 and were catching him, F4U came in to clear the 262's six. F4U started chasing the 38, 38 went up and started gaining angles on the F4U, 262 came back and turned the 38 and the F4U managed few pings on him before the 190 got on the F4U's six. F4U turned that into a rolling scissors and was trying to finish off the 190 when a 110 came in and picked him. Then I think a spit showed up to make it 4-1 and the 262 left. Or something like that.
The 262 was doing its best to help out, had a couple of flaps down, but as has been pointed out, the 262 takes time to turn around, so it isn't the best in an engagement like that, regardless of its perk cost. (I use them primarily to lawn dart into the ground myself.)
That fight was a lot of fun, I was the corsair. I was very impressed with your E management Still not sure how you managed to stay so fast. <<S>>
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Selective memory there Cap:) My selective memory has it like this:
38 and a 190 had dove on a 262 and were catching him, F4U came in to clear the 262's six. F4U started chasing the 38, 38 went up and started gaining angles on the F4U, 262 came back and turned the 38 and the F4U managed few pings on him before the 190 got on the F4U's six. F4U turned that into a rolling scissors and was trying to finish off the 190 when a 110 came in and picked him. Then I think a spit showed up to make it 4-1 and the 262 left. Or something like that.
The 262 was doing its best to help out, had a couple of flaps down, but as has been pointed out, the 262 takes time to turn around, so it isn't the best in an engagement like that, regardless of its perk cost. (I use them primarily to lawn dart into the ground myself.)
That fight was a lot of fun, I was the corsair. I was very impressed with your E management Still not sure how you managed to stay so fast. <<S>>
you were the corsair? did i tag ya at all? i thought i did at one point, but was having trouble.
we didn't dive on the 262. he started off with alt. we slowly managed to get to co-alt position, but he stayed pretty far out till you came in. once you were there, it was 4 of us tangling. it was fun too. even trying to gain position on the 262, was fun, because it was a challange.
as for turning with you....i thought you were about to hand my bellybutton back to me. i felt like i was losing, till someone popped ya. i do however, appreciate the compliments on my flying. once you were down, another pair came in, and one of them from what i was told, is completely new, and i think he was dispatched pretty quickly.
i have fun with fights like that, as i know you and the 262 were working together, as was i and drkhorse.
if i can keep finding fights like we had with you, i'll be spending more time in lw sir.
<<S>>
i almost forgot......you ALMOST snuck up on me. i was so intent on that 262 at onbe point, i stopped looking around. i just happened to look back and up, and was "O CRAP!" :rofl :aok
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Use space bar if u not gonna post a picture.
Model type ENY -116 ENY - 117 Delta
A-20G 25 15 -10
Bf 109G-14 20 25 5
Bf 110C-4b 35 40 5
Brewster B-239 25 30 5
Wondered who's OCD would get that chart fixed. :D
Btw nice job on the fuel chart for Special events. :salute
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you were the corsair? did i tag ya at all? i thought i did at one point, but was having trouble.
we didn't dive on the 262. he started off with alt. we slowly managed to get to co-alt position, but he stayed pretty far out till you came in. once you were there, it was 4 of us tangling. it was fun too. even trying to gain position on the 262, was fun, because it was a challange.
as for turning with you....i thought you were about to hand my bellybutton back to me. i felt like i was losing, till someone popped ya. i do however, appreciate the compliments on my flying. once you were down, another pair came in, and one of them from what i was told, is completely new, and i think he was dispatched pretty quickly.
i have fun with fights like that, as i know you and the 262 were working together, as was i and drkhorse.
if i can keep finding fights like we had with you, i'll be spending more time in lw sir.
<<S>>
i almost forgot......you ALMOST snuck up on me. i was so intent on that 262 at onbe point, i stopped looking around. i just happened to look back and up, and was "O CRAP!" :rofl :aok
You came real close the one time you fired on me. That's how I was pretty sure I was losing:( Sometimes you can get lucky and find fights like that in LW, but then sometimes you do and then get uninvited guests. Fun enough though. Till next time <S>
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It seems to me that the most common "Bomb Trucks" had their ENY lowered. A-20, P-51, F4U-1D, and Typhoon.
Trying to discourage bomb and bail a bit?
wrongway
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Every one has their own choice of plane to fly whether it be high ENy or low eny it makes no diff here 51D is my baby an will always be used in my book aswell with the niki and LA :salute :salute just figured i would give me thought on this thread
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Btw nice job on the fuel chart for Special events. :salute
TY
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i am sure that works for you but if the option was only available on the 1945 plane and it is available on the FM in game than the FM represents the 1945 version ...
it's pretty simple, really ...
no offense
+S+
t
Its a permanent option on the 1945 model and therefore has the rocket stubs. Without the rocket stubs the D pony was available in 1944 and I believe even earlier as a four gun D (which is why that is also an option).
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Use space bar if u not gonna post a picture.
Model type ENY -116 ENY - 117 Delta
A-20G 25 15 -10
Bf 109G-14 20 25 5
I wonder if this table thing works?
*removed*
Nope :D
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umm i believe there were several other things done to the d besides gun configuration and ordinance options
the 25, 10, 5, 1 blocks do not even share the same airframe/profile ...
do the airframes change with the load-outs?
that would be pretty weird ...
+S+
t
Its a permanent option on the 1945 model and therefore has the rocket stubs. Without the rocket stubs the D pony was available in 1944 and I believe even earlier as a four gun D (which is why that is also an option).
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The forum tables feature is basically the same as HTML tables.
| Model type | ENY116 | ENY117 | Delta |
| A-20G | 25 | 15 | -10 |
| Bf 109G-14 | 20 | 25 | 5 |
| Bf 110C-4b | 35 | 40 | 5 |
| Brewster B-239 | 25 | 30 | 5 |
| C.205 | 20 | 25 | 5 |
| F4F-4 | 20 | 35 | 15 |
| F4U-1D | 15 | 10 | -5 |
| FM2 | 20 | 25 | 5 |
| Fw 190A-8 | 31 | 25 | -6 |
| Fw 190F-8 | 20 | 25 | 5 |
| Hurricane Mk IIC | 10 | 12 | 2 |
| I-16 | 30 | 35 | 5 |
| Il-2 | 25 | 20 | -5 |
| Ki-61 | 25 | 30 | 5 |
| Ki-84-Ia | 15 | 20 | 5 |
| La-5FN | 20 | 25 | 5 |
| La-7 | 5 | 8 | 3 |
| LVTA4 | 40 | 35 | -5 |
| M-8 | 40 | 35 | -5 |
| Mosquito Mk VI | 25 | 30 | 5 |
| N1K2 | 5 | 8 | 3 |
| P-38L | 20 | 15 | -5 |
| P-39D | 30 | 35 | 5 |
| P-39Q | 20 | 30 | 10 |
| P-40E | 30 | 35 | 5 |
| P-47-D11 | 25 | 30 | 5 |
| P-47-D25 | 22 | 25 | 3 |
| P-47N | 5 | 10 | 5 |
| P-51D | 8 | 5 | -3 |
| Spitfire Mk V | 25 | 30 | 5 |
| Ta 152H | 5 | 10 | 5 |
| Typhoon IB | 10 | 8 | -2 |
| Wirbelwind | 25 | 15 | -10 |
| Yak-9T | 25 | 30 | 5 |
| Yak-9U | 20 | 23 | 3 |
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The forum tables feature is basically the same as HTML tables.
<S> to AKDogg for the spacebar version,
but, openning Wedge1126's post to blew my mind. I see the table instructions. WIll this type of thing work on all boards?
I need to play with this.
Back to the OP concept, I am loooking forward to seeing a tour's worth of plane stats to see if ENY changes as small as 2 or 3 really affect the behavior of stubborn AH2 players.
On the relationship of ENY and historical availability, there is none. If there was, that would mean that the more available the plane, the higher the ENY? So that it would always be available? Then planes like the P-51 would be in the same neighborhood as the I-16. Like other historical factors that are left out (for the sake of fun) like reliability and instrument flying, the disconnect between historical numbers and ENY is appropriate.