Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: RaptorL on October 15, 2009, 12:28:01 PM

Title: Cloud Design
Post by: RaptorL on October 15, 2009, 12:28:01 PM
Just out of curiosity, can the design of clouds, fogs, ect be changed from its current design to a more realistic texture? As we have it in the game, when you fly through a layer of cloud, fog, ect, you see the cloud or fog is made in layer's of thin white, like  pieces of paper spaced out form each other to simulate, its thickness. What I find bad about this is your visibility is limited from how far you are from that one layer. What i like to see done (if Possible) is to make cloud, fogs, ect have dimension, depth. (Not just a hollowed out shell, but like a filled in solid). Not really sure how I can explain this better. Try to interpret my explanation and tell me what you think.
Title: Re: Cloud Design
Post by: waystin2 on October 15, 2009, 12:30:20 PM
+1
Title: Re: Cloud Design
Post by: RaptorL on October 15, 2009, 12:36:33 PM
Maybe what I'm trying to say is when you are in a cloud the distance you can see in that cloud should be a constent. If there is a nother plane inside that cloud with you, the close you get that plane, the less obscurred it is and the better you can see it.
Title: Re: Cloud Design
Post by: batch on October 15, 2009, 12:42:53 PM
in other words you dont mind if your frame rates dip into the low single digits
Title: Re: Cloud Design
Post by: grizz441 on October 15, 2009, 12:46:09 PM
Clouds are a great compromise between realism and performance if you ask me.  If clouds become a lot more advanced you would run into a much higher percentage of players having game play issues.  I'm sure a cloud overhaul is a realistic envisionment of HTC in the future though as computers continue to get faster.
Title: Re: Cloud Design
Post by: RaptorL on October 15, 2009, 12:46:35 PM
What I'm asking is, is its possible, and can it be done without a heavy toll on frame rate?
Title: Re: Cloud Design
Post by: grizz441 on October 15, 2009, 12:58:00 PM
What I'm asking is, is its possible, and can it be done without a heavy toll on frame rate?

Only HiTech knows exactly what is possible and how it may affect frame rates, and most importantly how it would affect the lower 50% of the players on the performance spectrum.  I think the clouds look pretty good currently.  Some have that weird 2d feel when you go through them but a lot of them look very real.
Title: Re: Cloud Design
Post by: 715 on October 15, 2009, 02:27:09 PM
I think the OP is asking for volumetric clouds instead of the collection of flat textures.  I would suspect that what he is asking for is impossible with current 3D capabilities.  Current 3D is all based on collections of flat polygons with surface texture painted on; ie the whole world is made like plywood surfaces with paintings on them.  There's nothing inside unless the designer adds more plywood with more pictures.  There is no way for the 3D cards to make a solid object.

There are ray tracing techniques to create voxels (volumetric pixels) and render solid volumetric clouds (my wife once implemented such a program on a Silicon Graphics Iris based on the marching cubes algorithm) but I believe modern 3D graphics cards cannot do voxels and software ray tracing is way, way too slow for real time 3D graphics.
Title: Re: Cloud Design
Post by: Motherland on October 15, 2009, 02:38:38 PM
IMHO the clouds are pretty sub par... more effective ways of creating clouds have been around in video games for a long time.
Title: Re: Cloud Design
Post by: Knite on October 15, 2009, 02:51:36 PM
Actually 715, volumetric clouds have been able to be done for quite some time (perhaps not true volumetric, but a good proximity). I think even Janes WWII fighters had Volumetic-ish clouds, and I know IL-2 does.

It's possible, and I think this recent graphics engine overhaul may have been needed to allow HTC to make changes, such as to the smoke, flames, and fog. There's always got to be a balance between performance and pretties though, and I think that's where the biggest "rub" is right now. Not ability or capability but playability.
Title: Re: Cloud Design
Post by: 715 on October 15, 2009, 02:56:46 PM
Yeah, I agree there are better tricks to simulating volumetric-ish clouds.  I don't think they are true volumetric rendering is what I was saying.
Title: Re: Cloud Design
Post by: Plazus on October 15, 2009, 03:25:28 PM
in other words you dont mind if your frame rates dip into the low single digits

Improved clouds shouldnt affect fps hardly at all. If any of you played MS Flight Sim, the clouds had minimal to no affect on frames. It was the ground detail and range that affected the performance the most.

So I say, +1 for improved clouds!  :aok
Title: Re: Cloud Design
Post by: Kazaa on October 15, 2009, 03:37:56 PM
I think improving the clouds design would be a fantastic additonal to the games new look.

How about another option under the advanced tab to increase the level of detail in the clouds?
Title: Re: Cloud Design
Post by: USRanger on October 15, 2009, 05:13:42 PM
The clouds in AH1 were better IMO.
Title: Re: Cloud Design
Post by: Kazaa on October 15, 2009, 06:19:51 PM
How about shadows made by the clouds, it would rock but I bet it would turn FPS fubar.
Title: Re: Cloud Design
Post by: Spikes on October 15, 2009, 06:22:25 PM
In FS2K4 clouds do not affect my FPS.
Title: Re: Cloud Design
Post by: StokesAk on October 15, 2009, 06:23:25 PM
How about shadows made by the clouds, what would rock but I bet it would turn FPS fubar.

I got plane shadows when i upgraded my computer, it didnt hurt my frame rate. They could do cloud shadows like plane shadows.
Title: Re: Cloud Design
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 15, 2009, 06:41:22 PM
Clouds, sky, and optical properties of the sun all need some attention. :pray
Title: Re: Cloud Design
Post by: Plazus on October 15, 2009, 07:42:45 PM
<--- Waiting for a response from HTC to this thread.  :)
Title: Re: Cloud Design
Post by: OOZ662 on October 16, 2009, 02:32:38 AM
Silent Hunter 4 claims to have volumetric clouds...
Title: Re: Cloud Design
Post by: Denholm on October 16, 2009, 07:24:15 AM
Then again you can't get up in them, can you? :)
Title: Re: Cloud Design
Post by: RaptorL on October 16, 2009, 10:41:14 AM
Also a nother thing I would like changed, if possible is to have weather patterns, (Cloud shifts) all at different altitudes
Title: Re: Cloud Design
Post by: Rebel on October 16, 2009, 11:03:43 AM
Silent Hunter 4 claims to have volumetric clouds...

And they do. 

Even really low ones (fog).

Night foggy approach into hiroshima bay yielded very positive results :)
Title: Re: Cloud Design
Post by: OOZ662 on October 16, 2009, 12:08:53 PM
Also a nother thing I would like changed, if possible is to have weather patterns, (Cloud shifts) all at different altitudes

They implemented something like this a long while ago. When the war was won it froze the server and Skuzzy had to meander in at some ungodly morning hour (tripping the security alarm in his bathrobe, IIRC). After that we never really heard about it again.