Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Tac on October 24, 2009, 06:25:34 AM
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My little panasonic lumix dz7 is almost 4 years old now and the 6mp with nifty features has and still serves me faithfully however i'm considering getting a more capable SLR camera. Sad thing is, I know ZILCH about cameras except they're always overpriced :P
So, here's what I'm looking for and would appreciate suggestions:
1- 10mpixel
2- capable of high speed photo. Aka I want to push that button and have it take dozens of pics a second (for when photographing moving objects)
3- I loathe digital zoom so i'll take the highest optical zoom i can get
4- price: This is absolutely important I really cant spend more than 500 bucks on the camera.
it's a begginer's slr camera so I really dont need one loaded with a bunch of bs features ill never use...and when/if I ever get to the point where i'd need them it will be many years from now and a camera upgrade would be on the table anyways.
suggestions?
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ive tried a few nikons and canons but my fav of all of them was olympus 420, well built, rugged feeling, compact and closest in handling to late gen film slrs. they do a tiny prime lens for it too so its genuinely pocketable (not sure how good that lens is tho) unlike any canon or nikon. I think theres a new version now with a flippy screen and some other goodies.
quite liked the nikon d40x, and hated every canon ive tried - creaky, plasticy and unneccesarily big. I had a canon A1 for years which was pretty big, but their dslr build quality is laughable in comparison. imo size is really important for anything except studio or tripod work, I took many better photos with my om10 before i got the A1, simply because it was small enough to have in my pocket when the picture happened in front of me. I guess decent digi compacts fill this role now tho.
edit: one great feature on the nikon d40x is the camera is never actually off, just sleeping. this means power off to taking a shot is practically instant, like a film slr, and unlike other dslrs ive tried. this alone would probably make me look at nikon first :aok
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It's either less than $500 or a DSLR with a high zoom lens :). Seriously, decent lenses with zooming capability similar to your current camera can be more expensive than the camera itself.
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Honestly, if you can at most spend only $500, do not get an SLR. Just the body to fulfill your high speed photo requirement would cost ten fold. An SLR body under $500 can't really take more than some half a dozen frames a second, besides the buffer gets full after a second or two, which after the frames will have to be written on the memory disc to clear the buffer.
A decent lens to the body can cost $500. Lenses around 50mm are the most inexpensive and the further you go down or up, the more it'll cost. With a bad lens you're better off with a non-SLR camera. Cheap lens is a bad lens with a few exceptions; exceptions that doesn't suit your needs (or how would you like a fixed 50mm lens...). Around the 28-75mm range (depending on the make) there's a few decent lenses for around $300. Goes for indoor and landscape shoots as long as you don't need to get wide or zoom up (no shots of whole rooms or zooming up to a face across the room, let alone outdoors).
My advise is to have a budget of at least $1000 before going SLR, and a careful study what to buy. Perhaps a $600-700 body and one of the most balanced $300-400 lenses, this will get you a decent body that will last for a while and you can buy a better/more lenses when you get the money. The lens can be then sold for some $150-300 when you don't need it anymore. I would recommend Tamron 28-75mm F2.8 lens, which is quite nice for the price of about $300. Like said, it will lack in the wide and zoom ends, but the further you go either way, the more you'll have to pay.
Avoid buying a cheap SLR kit - the lenses are usually crap. If you buy a kit containing a body and one lens for cheap, do not go with any other lens than a lens of the same manufacturer as the body in the range of about 18-50mm. Most of the other kit lens options will be waste of money. 18-50mm kit lens of the same manufacturer will at least get you going without too much agony. But it will be F3.5-5.6 (which means slow in dark, especially at 50mm where it's at the highest F-range of 5.6) and only 50mm tops (though, 18mm is nice to have).
Eitherway, SLR is not a video camera (especially without money to buy a $5000 body). If you need a video camera, buy a video camera :D
Be warned: after you buy an SLR, you will shortly thereafter hunger for more accessories; camera bag, flash, extra battery, extra memory cards, more and better lenses... it's a slippery slope and you will slip. Imagine yourself as a heroine addict and you'll get the picture. :x
(the saying fits quite well in the situation :D)
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Fishu makes some good points..
Search for message forums and reviews about the different products..
Here's one of my favorites:
http://therealdotin.com/phpbb/index.php
Lot of good folks there willing to help out new users.
I would advise sticking with Nikon, Canon, or Sony ( gotta plug my A700...lol ) just for the flexibility of getting lenses.. for you'll find you spend more money on lenses that the camera body.
Also, I dont think any of the DSLRs will take dozens of shots a second ( except in video mode ) .. Mine will do 5/sec and that's pretty good.
Just beware that camera brands have the same loyalty that automakers have.. be prepared to see discussions that rival the best of the Skuzzified exchanges you've seen in here.. lol
Be patient and take your time. There's a ton to learn to get fully educated on the DSLR world. Know what, in general, you hope to accomplish and ask questions, search forums, and research.
Good luck!
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Also, I dont think any of the DSLRs will take dozens of shots a second ( except in video mode ) .. Mine will do 5/sec and that's pretty good.
Yeah, for example top of the line Canon EOS-1D Mark III (and Mk.IV which they just announced this week) can do 10 frames a second for up to 30 frames (that's whopping 3 seconds of continuous shooting). Video mode can, of course, shoot vidoe, but that's not as good quality as a single shot frame. Besides the video mode is a rather new thing for dSLRs. Video camera is a video camera and dSLR is a dSLR.
and the price of EOS-1D Mk.III you might ask? It's yours for only $3,999!
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go to "dpreview.com" lots of camera information there.
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Thats a good website for info thanks.
Found the Olympus E520 which seems like a damn good little dslr camera (but then again, i know squat about cameras lol)
i've put **** before the items that catch my attention, the rest is martian to me.
Estimated Retail Price: $499.99 *******
with 14-42mm lens ****(is this equivalent to what my lumix dz7 has or better?)
or a 2 lens kit which has the 14-42mm and ED 40-150mm Zoom lenses with the rest of the kit for $539.
E-520 Specs
Product Type
Product type Single-lens reflex Live View digital camera with interchangeable lens system
Memory CompactFlash Type I/II, Microdrive, xD-Picture Card™ (Dual-Slot)
Sensor Size 17.3 mm (H) x 13.0 mm (V)
Lens mount Four Thirds Mount
Effective Pixels
Number of effective pixels 10 million pixels ***********
Image Pickup Unit
Product type Live MOS Sensor
Total pixels Approx. 11.8 million pixels
Aspect ratio 1.33 (4:3)
Filter array Primary color filter (RGB)
LPF Fixed type
IR cut filter Hybrid type
Dust reduction Supersonic Wave Filter (dust-reduction system for image sensor) *******
Recording
Recording format DCF, DPOF compatible/Exif, PRINT Image Matching III
File format RAW (12-bit), JPEG, RAW+JPEG
Recording image size [RAW] 3648 x 2736 pixels
[JPEG] 3648 x 2736 pixels - 640 x 480 pixels
Viewfinder
Product type Eye-level single-lens reflex viewfinder
Field of view Approx. 95%
Viewfinder magnification Approx.0.92x (-1m-1, 50mm lens, infinity)
Eye point Approx. 14 mm (-1m-1)
Diopter adjustment range -3.0 - +1m-1
Focusing screen Fixed (Neo Lumi-Micro Mat screen)
Eyepiece shutter Eyepiece cap EP-4 supplied
Eye cup Interchangeable type. EP-5 supplied. Optional EP-6, EP-7, Magnifier eyecup ME-1 available.
Preview Can be checked (when FN button is set in preview mode),
selectable from the optical viewfinder or rear-mounted LCD monitor ***********
Viewfinder information Aperture value, Shutter speed, Record mode, AF confirmation mark, Flash, WB, AE lock, Number of storable still images, Exposure compensation value, Metering mode, Battery warning, Exposure mode, AF frame (super impose). IS activating mode.
Live View ************
Live View Live MOS Sensor for still picture shooting is used, 100% field of view, Exposure adjustment preview, White balance adjustment preview, Gradation setting preview, Face detection preview, Perfect Shot preview, Grid line displayable, 7x/10x magnification possible, MF/S-AF, AF frame display, AF point display, Shooting information, Histogram, IS Activating mode.
AF High-speed imager AF, Phase difference detection AF
Image Stabilizer
System Built-in (Imager shift image stabilizer)
Mode 3 modes
(2-dimensional activation (Horizontal + Vertical), 1-dimensional activation (Vertical), 1-dimensional activation (Horizontal)
Effective compensation range Up to 4 EV steps maximum *******
LCD Display
Product type HyperCrystal™ II LCD (semi-transmissive TFT color LCD)
Size 2.7 inches
Total no. of pixels Approx. 230,000 pixels
Playback field of view 100%
Brightness control 15 levels
Color balance 15 levels
Focusing
AF system TTL phase difference detection system, contrast detection system (with 25mm f2.8, 14-42mm f3.5-5.6, 40-150mm f4.0-5.6)
Focus mode Single AF (S-AF) / Continuous AF (C-AF)* / Manual Focus (MF) / S-AF + MF / C-AF + MF
*C-AF mode is not available with the contrast detection system
Focusing point 3-point multiple AF with the phase difference detection system (Auto, selectable in option)
11-point multiple AF with the contrast detection system (Auto, selectable in option)
Focusing point selection Auto/Option selectable
AF luminance range
(phase difference detection system) EV 0 to 19 (at 20°C, ISO 100)
AF illuminator
(phase difference detection system) Built-in flash (on/off selectable), external flash available.
AF lock Locked at first position of Shutter button in Single AF mode / AEL button (customizable)
Focus tracking
(phase difference detection system) Interlocked with Continuous AF mode
Focus aid Available
Exposure Control
Metering system TTL open-aperture metering system
(1) Digital ESP metering (49-point multipattern metering); (2) Center-weighted average metering; (3) Spot metering (approx. 2% of the viewfinder screen); (4) Spot with Highlight control; (5) Spot with Shadow control
Metering range EV 1 - 20 (Digital ESP metering, Center-weighted average metering, Spot metering)
(At normal temperature, 50mm f2, ISO 100)
Exposure mode (1) Auto; (2) P: Program AE (Program shift can be performed); (3) A: Aperture priority AE; (4) S: Shutter priority AE; (5) M: Manual; (6) Scene program AE; (7) Scene select AE
Scene program AE Portrait, Landscape, Macro, Sport, Night + Portrait
Scene select AE Portrait, Landscape, Landscape + Portrait, Night Scene, Night + Portrait, Children, Sport, High Key, Low Key, Digital Image Stabilization, Macro, Nature Macro, Candle, Sunset, Fireworks, Documents, Panorama (requires Olympus xD-Picture Card media), Beach & Snow, Underwater Wide, Underwater Macro
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ISO sensitivity AUTO (ISO 100 - 1600) / Manual (ISO 100 - 1600), 1 EV steps ******
Exposure compensation ±5 EV in 1/3, 1/2, 1 EV steps selectable *********
AE lock Locked by first position of Shutter button / AEL button (customizable)
Exposure bracketing 3 frames in 1/3, 1/2, 2/3, 1 EV steps selectable
White Balance
Auto WB system Advanced detection system with Live MOS sensor
Preset white balance 8 settings (3000K - 7500K): Lamp (3000K), Fluorescent 1 (4000K), Fluorescent 2 (4500K), Fluorescent 3 (6600K), Daylight (5300K), Cloudy (6000K), Shade (7500K)
White balance compensation ±7 steps in each A-B/G-M axis (in Auto WB/Preset WB mode)
Custom white balance 1 temperature setting can be registered in degrees Kelvin (2000K - 14000K)
One-touch white balance 1 custom setting can be registered
Color Mode
Color matrix sRGB, Adobe RGB
Picture Mode
Mode Vivid, Natural (default setting), Muted, Portrait, Monotone, Custom
Adjustment parameter Contrast, Sharpness and Saturation level available in 5 steps for Vivid, Natural, Muted and Portrait
Contrast and Sharpness level available in 5 steps for Monotone
Filter effect Yellow, Orange, Red or Green filter available for Monotone
Picture tone Sepia, Blue, Purple or Green tone available for Monotone
Gradation 4 levels (Auto, high key, normal, low key)
Shutter
Product type Computerized focal-plane shutter
Shutter speed Auto mode: 2 - 1/4000 sec. (depends on settings), P(Ps), S, A, M mode: 60 - 1/4000 sec. (Bulb: up to 30 min. with limiter), Scene program/Scene select mode: 4 - 1/4000 sec. (depends on settings) 1/3, 1/2, 1 EV steps selectable
Self-timer Operation time: 12 sec., 2 sec. (cancel available)
Remote cable release Available (with optional RM-UC1 Remote Cable)
Optical remote control Operation time: 2 sec., 0 sec., bulb control available (with optional RM-1 Remote Control)
Anti-shock mode Available (1 to 30 sec. selectable)
Drive
Drive mode Single-frame shooting, Sequential shooting, Self-timer, Remote control
Sequential shooting speed Approx. 3.5 frames/sec. *********
Max. recordable pictures RAW mode: Max. 8 frames
on sequential shooting JPEG mode: Depends on compression ratio and no. of pixels (LN mode: approx. up to card capacity with SanDisk Extreme III 1GB)
Integrated Flash
Built-in flash Retractable flash (Auto pop-up type), GN=12 (ISO 100.m)
Compatible external flash FL-50R, FL-36R, FL-50, FL-36, FL-20
Flash control mode TTL Auto (TTL pre-flash mode), Auto, Manual
Flash mode Auto, Red-eye reduction, Red-eye reduction slow sync., Slow synchronization, Fill-in, Manual (1/4, 1/16, 1/64), Off.
Synchronization speed 1/180 sec. or less, Super FP up to 1/4000 sec.
Flash intensity control Up to ±2 EV in 1/3, 1/2 or 1 EV steps
Synchronization timing 1st curtain synchronization/2nd curtain slow synchronization (selectable)
Flash bracketing 3 frames in 0.3, 0.5, 0.7, 1 EV steps selectable
Wireless flash control
Compatible external flash FL-50R, FL-36R
Control method Triggered and controlled by built-in flash light
Flash control modes TTL Auto (TTL pre-flash mode), Auto, Manual, FP TTL Auto, FP Manual
Number of channels 4 channels
Group setting 3 groups
Super control panel
Information (Shooting) Battery information, Exposure mode, Shutter speed, Aperture value, Exposure compensation value, ISO sensitivity, Exposure compensation indicator, Exposure indicator, Flash intensity compensation indicator, Date, BKT setting, NR setting, WB, WB compensation value, Picture mode, Flash mode, Record mode, Image size, Card information, Drive mode, Flash intensity compensation value, Metering mode, Recordable still image number, Focusing mode, FP warning, AF frame, AF illuminator deactivated notification, Color space, Sharpness, Contrast, Saturation, Gradation, IS activating mode, Face detection, RC mode setting
Information (Wireless flash commander) Exposure mode, Shutter speed, Aperture value, Exposure compensation indicator, Exposure compensation value, Flash compensation indicator, Flash compensation value, ALE notification, Flash compensation notification, NR notification, BKT notification, AF illuminator deactivated notification, Color space, IS activating mode, Wireless channel setting, Built-in flash intensity, Group setting
Back light timer Back light lighting time is selectable (Keep, 8 sec., 30 sec., 1 min.)
Playback
Playback modes Single-frame, Index (4/9/16/25/49/100 frames), Calendar, Close-up ( 2 - 14X), Slideshow, Picture rotation (auto mode available), Light box
Information display Histogram (independent luminance/RGB available),
Highlight/Shadow point warning, AF frame, Shooting information
Menu
Languages Americas: English, French, Spanish, Portuguese
Custom setting
Custom function Fn button is available to set 10 functions: Face detection, Preview, Live preview, One-touch WB, AF home position, MF, Record mode, Test picture, My mode, Off
Drive button is available to set six functions: Drive, AF target selection, AF mode, WB mode, Metering mode, ISO setting)
Custom reset 2 settings are recordable
My mode 2 settings are recordable
Image Editing
Erasing function Single frame, All frames, Selected frames (with protect function)
Protect function Single frame, Selected frames, Release protect (Single/All selected)
Copy between media Single frame, All frames, Selected frames
RAW picture editing RAW development
JPEG editing Shadow Adjustment, Red-eye fix, Triming, Monotone, Sepia, Saturation (color depth), Resize (producing another file)
Print
Print function Print reservation (DPOF), Direct print (PictBridge compatible)
Input/Output
PC interface High Speed USB for storage and camera control (MTP mode is available)
USB/Video connector Dedicated multi-connector (Video: NTSC/PAL selectable, Optional remote cable RM-UC1 is available)
Flash attachment Hot shoe
Power Requirements
Battery BLM-1 Li-ion battery (included)
Sleep mode Available (1, 3, 5, 10 min., Off selectable)
No. of recordable pictures Approx. 650 shots (optical viewfinder)
(with BLM-1 under CIPA testing standard)
Dimensions/Weight
Dimensions 5.4 in. (W) x 3.6 in.(H) x 2.7 in. D / 136 mm (W) x 91.5 mm (H) x 68 mm (D) (excluding protrusions)
Weight 16.8 oz. / 475 g (body only)
Box contents
E-520 (outfit contents), ED 14-42mm Zoom lens, Li-ion Battery BLM-1, Li-ion battery charger BCM-2, USB 2.0 cable, Video cable, Shoulder strap, OLYMPUS Master 2 CD-ROM, Instruction Manual, Registration card, Eyepiece cap EP-4, Lens and Body Caps, Lens Hood
I know more money has to be put into it for lenses and memory cards but thats for the future. for now this one SEEMS to fit all that I need at the price I need. However most of the above is gibberish to me.
questions:
-Is the lens that comes with it worse, equal, or better than my current lumix dz7?
-what optical zoom does this slr have? (my lumix is 12x)
-it can shoot almost 4 per second which is good..my lumix does 3 BUT my lumix does it only after taking a minuto programming the damn thing with a menu to do it..so on a snap situation it makes one lose the moment and the shot.. does any of the above say this is the same?
-anyone have this camera by any chance? :)
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At under $500, forget DSLR and go with a Canon G11.
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0908/09081908canong11.asp
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This is the one I am getting my wife for Christmas. It will work with all her existing SLR lenses that she has bought since she bought herself the Pentax K100 a few years ago. She wants something that will do high speed action shots better and will be compatible with all her lenses from 35mm film days.
http://digital-photography-school.com/pentax-k7-dslr
Plus it is just as good as a Nikon, Olympus or Canon and the cost is a little better than those with what she is looking for in a camera.
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Oh... and just to put things in perspective. I have a Nikon D300. It'll do 6.5 frames per second. With the battery pack, it'll do 8.
Cost is $1800 for the body alone.
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It's either less than $500 or a DSLR with a high zoom lens :). Seriously, decent lenses with zooming capability similar to your current camera can be more expensive than the camera itself.
Tell me about it. I was thinking about getting a wide angle zoom for the Rebel I got my wife a coupe Christmas's ago. Nothing to over the top uber. Just a decent lens.
Then I looked at the prices and went :O.
Like I said. "I WAS thinking" about it
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I call myself a "semi-pro" photographer, meaning I don't do enough jobs to make a full time living, but I do enough to make a fair profit, and keep up my photo hobby, which I've been doing for 12+ yrs. I even still shoot film sometimes, hard to believe I know.
Like others have said it'll be tough to find a decent set-up for under $500. Most brands have beginner bodies out for under $500, but if you want a decent lens to go with it that's gonna a lot more.
My current SLRs are Sony's and I don't follow other brands prices that closely but:
Nikon D40, D5000
Sony A200, A3xx
Canon Rebel xt bla bla
Pentax K-x
Olympus E-somthin or other
all under $500 I think, probably a little more with a kit lens. Most kit lenses suck though, a good standard zoom 24-70mm, 28-80mm will also be $300+, and a good flash another $200+, and a good tripod $100+.
So get whatever camera you decide on, then start saving up again and buy some better lenses. If you really get into photography you will spend much more on lenses than cameras anyway. I currently have about $4k worth of camera's but probably $6k in lenses. Thing to remember, is that with digital, cameras will be outdated in a several years as sensor technology gets better and better, while a good lens will last a lifetime.
All of the brands I've mentioned make great camera's and lenses, and all have their strengths and weaknesses. So don't get stuck on brand loyalty like many do, just get what you feel comfortable with. If as you learn more you decide that another brand suits you better then you can switch later.
Lastly learn at least the basics of photography, it drives me nuts to see all the soccer mom's with their DSLRs that stay "p" mode or the green square the whole time. Even beginner cameras can create fantastic images if you learn how to use it. If you just leave it on auto the whole time, you'd be better off with a point and shoot.
Some websites to check out:
www.dpreview.com
-has lots of camera reviews, but I'd not believe everything you read in the forums there, lots of die hard "brand fans" there that spent more time arguing about which brand is better than making photos.
www.SLRgear.com
-the place to go for lens reviews
www.Luminous-landscape.com
-thousands of articles, essays and reviews, and a much more useful forum than dpreview
www.cambridgeincolour.com
-Lots of great tutorials to help you understand how photography works.
AND
www.kirksagers.com
-My website, badly in need of an update, but I've been lazy latley.
Hope I've helped and not just confused. :)
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This is the one I am getting my wife for Christmas. It will work with all her existing SLR lenses that she has bought since she bought herself the Pentax K100 a few years ago. She wants something that will do high speed action shots better and will be compatible with all her lenses from 35mm film days.
http://digital-photography-school.com/pentax-k7-dslr
Plus it is just as good as a Nikon, Olympus or Canon and the cost is a little better than those with what she is looking for in a camera.
I've heard lots of good things about the K-7, in fact the only serious complaint I've heard is the autofocus can be finnicky. Great thing about Pentax (and Sony) is the in body stabilization which will make all your wife's old lenses stabilized.
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So, here's what I'm looking for and would appreciate suggestions:
1- 10mpixel
2- capable of high speed photo. Aka I want to push that button and have it take dozens of pics a second (for when photographing moving objects)
3- I loathe digital zoom so i'll take the highest optical zoom i can get
4- price: This is absolutely important I really cant spend more than 500 bucks on the camera.
it's a begginer's slr camera so I really dont need one loaded with a bunch of bs features ill never use...and when/if I ever get to the point where i'd need them it will be many years from now and a camera upgrade would be on the table anyways.
suggestions?
There is no DSLR on the market that can match your price/expectations.
But take look at this
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0809/08091601casio_fh20.asp
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I got my 1st SLR this week Canon Rebel T1i ,@ Costco, package deal, bag, cables battery,2 lenses: AkWabitt suggested this camera,i owe him a beer, and i searched it has best ratings for entry level SLR.Below are my 1st shots i took yesterday here from Windsor to Detroit River, but was cloudy, low light and i don't know much about ISO,lenses, and other settings. Takes very high quality pics even in on auto mode, driven by noob like myself, but you lose lots of quality resizing pics from 7MB to photobucket size.
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a146/johny35/det1.jpg)
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a146/johny35/detroit3.jpg)
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www.kirksagers.com
-My website, badly in need of an update, but I've been lazy latley.
You do good work. Thanks for sharing. :)
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I've heard lots of good things about the K-7, in fact the only serious complaint I've heard is the autofocus can be finnicky. Great thing about Pentax (and Sony) is the in body stabilization which will make all your wife's old lenses stabilized.
Yes the autofocus on her K100 is the same way but that is something that can and does get overlooked by us since she tends to use manual focus for 80+% of her shots. She does a good job of playing with the settings to get the right thing for her shots and as part of the Christmas present she is getting a photography class paid for as well. Something that she has been wanting to do for a while.
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but you lose lots of quality resizing pics from 7MB to photobucket size.
Don't worry about that, remember that probably 90% of people will be viewing them on monitors that have 2 mega-pixels or less resolution.(1920X1080 is basically 2mp) So even a 3-4 mp camera has enough resolution for web display.
The resizing will also kill a lot of shadow, highlight and color detail through compression, BUT, most monitors will not be color calibrated either, and many will not be using the same color gamut as your uploaded JPGs or TIFs, so they will look different on different monitors anyway. If your really into photography, a monitor calibrator is a worthwhile investment.
The only way to really judge image quality is through prints, and even there you need use a printer you know is good. I use Bay Photo now, and pay extra $$ to get the color correction done by hand. I've used EZprints and Adorama in the past too, there good, but I think Bay is a little better. I've heard people rave about White House Custom Colour, but they are VERY pricey $$$$. Costco does good prints too believe it or not. Stay away from Mpix, and Ritz they suck.
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Thx for tips!
Ohh man ...i just visited your website ! Amazing shots! Where did you take those mountains landscape? Alaska? Rockies? You have some pics better than National Geographic@ photo gallery.
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here are some that ive taken with my lumix 6mp:
(http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo340/tacginaz/P1000269.jpg)
(http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo340/tacginaz/P1000187.jpg)
(http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo340/tacginaz/P1000155.jpg)
(http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo340/tacginaz/P1000138.jpg)
(http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo340/tacginaz/P1000093.jpg)
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and compared to using my mother's SLR ..l nikkon d40... (also 6mp i think)
(http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo340/tacginaz/_12051.jpg)
(http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo340/tacginaz/_12052.jpg)
(http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo340/tacginaz/_12054.jpg)
(http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo340/tacginaz/_12056.jpg)
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I'll make a pitch for the Canon cameras.I used a Canon D60 since it was introduced,and even though it's only a 6.3 MP,the photos it takes are really nice.My only gripe was that you could only go up to 1000 ISO. You can pick up a D60 body really cheap these days.For general purposes, that 6.3 mp is more than enough. I upgraded to the Canon 50D earlier this year. 15 MP,ISO to 6400 plus 2 more stops on the exposure compensation. Lots of preset shooting modes,and the LCD screen on the back can be used as a viewfinder. You can get the Body and a lens for around 1500.00 new. You can get a used,or demo package at B&H photo for less. Lots of good quality stuff out there.You can't go wrong with any of the major brands.
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Thx for tips!
Ohh man ...i just visited your website ! Amazing shots! Where did you take those mountains landscape? Alaska? Rockies? You have some pics better than National Geographic@ photo gallery.
Thanks for the kind words. Most of my landscapes/wildlife shots are either Wyoming (Wind River range and Yellowstone/Grand Teton parks) or Montana (Spanish Peaks, Bridger and Beartooth ranges). I've never been to Alaska, but I really really want to. I've got tons of older landscapes/wildlife photos I should get on my webpage, but there all on 35mm or 6x7cm slide film, and I've been too lazy lately to get it all scanned.
here are some that ive taken with my lumix 6mp:
(http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo340/tacginaz/P1000269.jpg)
(http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo340/tacginaz/P1000187.jpg)
(http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo340/tacginaz/P1000155.jpg)
(http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo340/tacginaz/P1000138.jpg)
(http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo340/tacginaz/P1000093.jpg)
Nice shots, I really like the B&W of the subway with the motion blur, good composition but the motion blur of the people and the train make it great.
I almost forgot; my #1 tip for everyone wanting to get the best possible images out of their DSLR.
Shoot in RAW, and expose to the right This will make a little more work to do in post processing, but it is well worth it in my opinion. I only learned and started following the expose to the right rule about a year ago, it has saved some photos that otherwise could not be saved, and it has helped get a lot more out of my digital images. Basically "exposing to the right" lets you get more dynamic range, and less noise from digital sensors.
To really understand the science, and how's and why's check out this article.
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/expose-right.shtml
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Shoot in RAW, and expose to the right This will make a little more work to do in post processing, but it is well worth it in my opinion. I only learned and started following the expose to the right rule about a year ago, it has saved some photos that otherwise could not be saved, and it has helped get a lot more out of my digital images. Basically "exposing to the right" lets you get more dynamic range, and less noise from digital sensors.
To really understand the science, and how's and why's check out this article.
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/expose-right.shtml
Thanks for the link to that excellent article. I've learned more about camera sensors from luminous-landscape than from any other source.
Will have to give this a try on my 20D.
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Nice shots, I really like the B&W of the subway with the motion blur, good composition but the motion blur of the people and the train make it great.
Thanks. I always have a hard time catching up to lingo.
Composition = ? (I infer its the point of view from where the picture is taken+whats in the picture?)
The motion blur was rather unintentional..the subway train sped past me as i was taking the pic :P
The two sets of pics i posted was to show you why I was looking into a dslr... the night pics of the space shuttle launch...it captures the sky perfectly... the pics of the same launch that were taken with my lumix (which I have in my computer in the US >< ) show mostly dark sky with only one thin line of clouds. Both cameras are 6mp (nikkon d40 and my lumix) so the difference has to be the lenses no? or what would it be?
my lumix has a tendency to capture colors very brightly though.. as you can see on the temple pic the reds and blues are very bright.. some pics of mine where i had a sky blue shirt almost look as if i was photoshopped into the pic. I take all those pics on the famous 'P' mode :devil.
you check your PM saggs?
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Thanks. I always have a hard time catching up to lingo.
Composition = ? (I infer its the point of view from where the picture is taken+whats in the picture?)
The motion blur was rather unintentional..the subway train sped past me as i was taking the pic :P
The two sets of pics i posted was to show you why I was looking into a dslr... the night pics of the space shuttle launch...it captures the sky perfectly... the pics of the same launch that were taken with my lumix (which I have in my computer in the US >< ) show mostly dark sky with only one thin line of clouds. Both cameras are 6mp (nikkon d40 and my lumix) so the difference has to be the lenses no? or what would it be?
my lumix has a tendency to capture colors very brightly though.. as you can see on the temple pic the reds and blues are very bright.. some pics of mine where i had a sky blue shirt almost look as if i was photoshopped into the pic. I take all those pics on the famous 'P' mode :devil.
you check your PM saggs?
Sorry if I went over your head there. It is a good photo though, even if not intentional it worked! That's how you'll learn, trial and error.
OK back to basics. There are 3 major factors that go into creating a good photograph, Composition, Lighting and Exposure
Your right on composition, it is the most artistic part of photography, it is basically how you chose to show whatever the subject of the photo is. There are a lot of guidelines for good composition you can learn more about if you want. Things like the Rule of Thirds, framing, perspective, leading lines, S-curves, negative space. Your right that the viewpoint from where you take the picture is part of composition, so is what lens you use, telephoto or wide angle.
Lighting is simply what lights up the scene, sunlight, moonlight or artificial light like flashes and lightbulbs, or a combination of both. In landscape photography there is a whole lot of just sitting and waiting for the natural light to be right.
Exposure is your camera setting, or how you get the image have composed onto your film or sensor. With digital photography there are 3 components of exposure. Aperture, Shutter speed and ISO
Aperture, this is the part of the lens that controls how much light hits the sensor. The smaller the number the bigger the opening, for example f32 is basically a pinhole, while f1.4 is humongous. Aperture also controls the "depth of field" or how much of the scene in front of and behind the focus point is also in focus. The smaller the aperture the greater the depth of field.
The shutter is the part of the camera that controls how long the light hits the sensor. Shutter speed is usually measured in fractions of seconds like 1/60 or 1/500. The faster the shutter speed the less chance you have of any movement (from you or the subject) creating blurs in your image. (but sometimes blur is good, like your image above) So if you don't want blur you want the fastest shutter speed you can get with the lighting available, and the aperture you have set. Most blur will come from your hands shaking the camera, not the subject moving, which is why photographers use tripods in low light situations.
ISO or sensitivity is how sensitive the digital sensor is to light. You can crank up the ISO to 6400 and shoot hand held in very low light situations. The problem is that when you crank up the sensors sensitivity to light, it also becomes more sensitive to all the electronic currents running the camera. The higher the ISO setting the more electronic noise will be picked up, this noise translates to a kind of weird looking texture in your photos.
As for the difference in photos taken with a point and shoot and an SLR you mentioned. It could just be that the Lumix underexposed the photo. Or it could be lots of things I don't know. They are both 6mp, and assuming they both have decent lenses, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between them in prints up to 8x12. In larger prints the SLR would start to look better, because even though they are both 6mp the sensor in the SLR is gonna be about twice the size of that in a P&S. I won't try and explain it, but bigger sensors (even with the same # of pixel) equal better photos in large prints. Even sensors of the same size and resolution from different manufacturers look just a little different. Just like how Fuji 100 film looks different from Kodak 100 film.
I'll get back on you PM later Tac.
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I'm not much of a photographer, I just kinda take a picture and hope it looks good.
I took this photo of the top turrent of a B-17, with an overcast sky behind it and just the photo it's self said
don't do anything to it it's perfect. Made me wonder what would have been going thru an air mans mind looking up
at the turrent in WWII, just before getting on board.
(http://www.mrmidi.net/images/avation/toptur8x6.jpg)
higher res version here
http://www.mrmidi.net/images/avation/DSCF0075.JPG
:salute
midi
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I shoot with a Pentax K10D and polarized filter. I went with the Pentax because I could use my old Pentax K-mount lenses. Funny thing is, I use either the kit lens or a Tamron 100-300mm for zoom (usually air shows) carried over from my old Pentax film SLR.
Proof that even an idiot can take a good picture with the right camera and a beautiful model:
(http://thumb11.webshots.net/t/55/855/4/40/79/2914440790010420891zolUvx_th.jpg) (http://news.webshots.com/photo/2914440790010420891zolUvx)
Chicks dig guys with big cameras:
(http://thumb11.webshots.net/t/75/175/6/65/78/2896665780010420891AtswIo_th.jpg) (http://news.webshots.com/photo/2896665780010420891AtswIo)
Same shot run through Adobe:
(http://thumb11.webshots.net/t/69/769/7/46/0/2441746000010420891zZxMZh_th.jpg) (http://news.webshots.com/photo/2441746000010420891zZxMZh)
The right processing software can make a world of difference. Just look at those two photos above and you can see where Adobe "corrected" some of the picture.
Some hero shots:
(http://thumb11.webshots.net/t/69/769/6/76/67/2477676670010420891IpnSUb_th.jpg) (http://news.webshots.com/photo/2477676670010420891IpnSUb)
(http://thumb11.webshots.net/t/75/175/8/77/80/2213877800010420891bCEsAd_th.jpg) (http://news.webshots.com/photo/2213877800010420891bCEsAd)
Fun with light metering:
(http://thumb11.webshots.net/t/68/468/5/70/78/2833570780010420891rOGAhQ_th.jpg) (http://news.webshots.com/photo/2833570780010420891rOGAhQ)
Fun with shutter speeds:
(http://thumb11.webshots.net/t/52/552/9/98/41/2118998410010420891ZEvZof_th.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2118998410010420891ZEvZof)
Did you say action photos?
(http://thumb11.webshots.net/t/58/658/7/73/4/2620773040010420891IOScZS_th.jpg) (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2620773040010420891IOScZS)
(http://thumb11.webshots.net/t/64/564/7/99/51/2255799510010420891FweQmx_th.jpg) (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2255799510010420891FweQmx)
(http://thumb11.webshots.net/t/58/658/9/42/11/2501942110010420891SGnZcG_th.jpg) (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2501942110010420891SGnZcG)
(http://thumb11.webshots.net/t/64/564/6/69/68/2393669680010420891RTIuUY_th.jpg) (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2393669680010420891RTIuUY)
(http://thumb11.webshots.net/t/64/564/0/7/29/2260007290010420891tAvJyp_th.jpg) (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2260007290010420891tAvJyp)
(http://thumb11.webshots.net/t/62/562/3/75/67/2168375670010420891VrTtyw_th.jpg) (http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2168375670010420891VrTtyw)
(http://thumb11.webshots.net/t/58/658/6/70/91/2119670910010420891hWPHZh_th.jpg) (http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2119670910010420891hWPHZh)
(http://thumb11.webshots.net/t/58/658/0/33/89/2388033890010420891bEOaOK_th.jpg) (http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2388033890010420891bEOaOK)
(http://thumb11.webshots.net/t/62/562/6/72/11/2854672110010420891CUbxto_th.jpg) (http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2854672110010420891CUbxto)
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Sorry if I went over your head there.
no worries, i'm learning :D
OK back to basics. There are 3 major factors that go into creating a good photograph, Composition, Lighting and Exposure
Your right on composition, it is the most artistic part of photography, it is basically how you chose to show whatever the subject of the photo is. There are a lot of guidelines for good composition you can learn more about if you want. Things like the Rule of Thirds, framing, perspective, leading lines, S-curves, negative space. Your right that the viewpoint from where you take the picture is part of composition, so is what lens you use, telephoto or wide angle.
I'll look up rule of thirds, framing, perspective, leading lines, s-curves and negative space.
Lighting is simply what lights up the scene, sunlight, moonlight or artificial light like flashes and lightbulbs, or a combination of both. In landscape photography there is a whole lot of just sitting and waiting for the natural light to be right.
yep i had a basic working idea of this already :)
Exposure is your camera setting, or how you get the image have composed onto your film or sensor. With digital photography there are 3 components of exposure. Aperture, Shutter speed and ISO
check!
Aperture, this is the part of the lens that controls how much light hits the sensor. The smaller the number the bigger the opening, for example f32 is basically a pinhole, while f1.4 is humongous. Aperture also controls the "depth of field" or how much of the scene in front of and behind the focus point is also in focus. The smaller the aperture the greater the depth of field.
:O I had no idea aperture also influenced the focus . This is the stuff one doesnt find in all those techno-gibberish guides. thanks!
The shutter is the part of the camera that controls how long the light hits the sensor. Shutter speed is usually measured in fractions of seconds like 1/60 or 1/500. The faster the shutter speed the less chance you have of any movement (from you or the subject) creating blurs in your image. (but sometimes blur is good, like your image above) So if you don't want blur you want the fastest shutter speed you can get with the lighting available, and the aperture you have set. Most blur will come from your hands shaking the camera, not the subject moving, which is why photographers use tripods in low light situations.
Yep I knew the basics of this one :) .
ISO or sensitivity is how sensitive the digital sensor is to light. You can crank up the ISO to 6400 and shoot hand held in very low light situations. The problem is that when you crank up the sensors sensitivity to light, it also becomes more sensitive to all the electronic currents running the camera. The higher the ISO setting the more electronic noise will be picked up, this noise translates to a kind of weird looking texture in your photos.
hmm so thats the graininess seen in some pics... noise. Is there any way to know which ISO to use depending on light or this be trial and error?
As for the difference in photos taken with a point and shoot and an SLR you mentioned..... They are both 6mp, and assuming they both have decent lenses, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between them in prints up to 8x12. In larger prints the SLR would start to look better, because even though they are both 6mp the sensor in the SLR is gonna be about twice the size of that in a P&S. I won't try and explain it, but bigger sensors (even with the same # of pixel) equal better photos in large prints...
no need, it makes lots of sense. In laymans terms both cameras can be 6mp but the slr with the bigger sensor will have taken in more light and compressed it into the image.
If the DSLR does take better pics when doing large prints then thats one big selling point for me (its also why I was going for 10mpix) as I took some really good pics in that trip to japan and when I went to enlarge them to large poster size I did notice a very small amount of square-shaped distortions (like when you zoom too much in pic editing software) in them.. though noticable only if you put your nose to the picture not from 5ft away. Any larger than the 6ft poster would show horrible pixelation. BUT the 10mp pics could be enlarged much more and not show any pixelation.
Also was looking at the dslr because when it came to focusing and zooming I do it a lot faster with a regular hand-on-lens-twist motion than waiting for the camera to focus on the wrong spot >< . I hate that!
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Yeah, about ISO. Shooting with my Pentax K10d I learned that image clarity has more to do with what your lens can handle than what your ISO is set up for. It doesn't matter how high you set the ISO if the lens can only stop-down just so far. High ISO = great speed but high noise.
I went to an airshow and set the ISO for a ridiculously fast speed (1200 or something) because I thought it would remove some of the blur of the props. Got tons of noise (which you'll see in some of the pics above). After experimenting, I learned I would've been better off going with ISO 600 (or even 400 when the clouds were gone) max, a mid-range aperture setting, and letting the shutter control the action.
ISO is "the old days" of film types. The lower the number, the slower the speed. The faster the speed, the more grain in the image. ISO 200 would give really clear images with low noise, but took a long time to get enough light. The compensation was to go with a wider aperture and/or slower shutter speed. The trade-off is that the wider aperture will give you a shorter depth of field, meaning images closer and farther away from your "gun convergence" will be blurry, but the middle will be crystal clear. A narrower aperture will give you greater depth of field of focus. The trade-off to slower shutter is that more blur is introduced from your hand shaking, or the camera vibrating when it is activated. By this I mean, you view your image through the lens, and when you take a picture, the mirror used for your viewfinder flips up and the movement vibrates the camera. Or, you could go with a really "fast film", like a ISO 1200 speed, the trade-off being that the image would be grainy. To take advantage of such a high sensitivity, you had to have a really fast shutter, or a really small aperture, or a combo of both. The narrower the f-stop, the deeper the field of focus. The faster the shutter, the more stop-action you got. The trick was finding the right combination that got you what you wanted and still got enough light to the camera.
The great thing about digital is that you can experiment all you want with f-stop, ISO, and shutter speed without burning through rolls of film. If you don't like the pic, just press the garbage can button and get on with your life.
When I shoot outdoors, I use a polarizing filter to cut down on glare. I noticed other photogs in this thread did the same thing. The trade-off is you lose about an f-stop, or a shutter speed, or an ISO (more or less), and with each piece of glass you add to the lens, you lose a little clarity. But, you should have at least 1 filter on your camera, to protect the lens from FOD, like dirt, bugs, greasy fingers...
Whatever camera you get, I highly suggest the extra battery pack. It makes the camera bigger and heavier, but the battery life you get makes it so worth it if you're going to be out a lot. Plus, you get style points that chicks really dig. :rock
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Yeah, about ISO. Shooting with my Pentax K10d I learned that image clarity has more to do with what your lens can handle than what your ISO is set up for. I went to an airshow and set the ISO for a ridiculously fast speed (1200 or something) because I thought it would remove some of the blur of the props. Got tons of noise (which you'll see in some of the pics above). After experimenting, I learned I would've been better off going with ISO 600 (or even 400 when the clouds were gone) max, a faster aperture setting, and letting the shutter control the action.
:rock
Yup, when shooting wildlife or sports, I shoot in Aperture priority, with auto ISO floating between 200-800 90% of the time. (unless on a tripod/monopod when I keep the ISO at 200) For landscapes or night shots I always use a tripod and manual settings. (especially when I use my trusty old Pentax 6x7 and Velvia 50, nothing automatic on that beast) I rarely use shutter priority.
RANT ON:
:furious Why my A700 even has those silly "scene modes" is beyond me. I can't imagine anyone buying that level of camera ever shooting JPGs, let alone using those stupid scene modes, they just waste space on my mode dial. I'm glad Sony did away with them on my A900.
RANT OFF
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I'm inspired now to take my camera out on a photo safari! :cool:
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:O I had no idea aperture also influenced the focus . This is the stuff one doesnt find in all those techno-gibberish guides. thanks!
This will show you how ISO, aperture, and shutter interact:
http://www.kamerasimulator.se/eng/?page_id=2
Consider this when you're shooting. If you have trouble seeing something, you often squint your eyes. This is reducing the aperture and increasing the depth of field. It's something you do instinctively. Big f/stop number means small aperture. Small aperture means larger depth of field.
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RANT ON:
:furious Why my A700 even has those silly "scene modes" is beyond me. I can't imagine anyone buying that level of camera ever shooting JPGs, let alone using those stupid scene modes, they just waste space on my mode dial. I'm glad Sony did away with them on my A900.
RANT OFF
Isn't the A700 an $800 camera body? Having all of those silly scene modes is consistent with what Nikon and Canon produce in the $800-1000 price range.
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Oh... and Tac, buy Bryan Peterson's Understanding Exposure (http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Exposure-Photographs-Digital-Updated/dp/0817463003). It's $15 well spent.
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Yup, when shooting wildlife or sports, I shoot in Aperture priority, with auto ISO floating between 200-800 90% of the time. (unless on a tripod/monopod when I keep the ISO at 200)
Can't agree here. If I'm shooting action stuff, it's either full manual or shutter priority. I use aperture priority for making depth of field the priority component, especially when doing portraits, or landscapes.
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Can't agree here. If I'm shooting action stuff, it's either full manual or shutter priority. I use aperture priority for making depth of field the priority component, especially when doing portraits, or landscapes.
Either way works I think, different photographers do things differently depending on their style, just like we use different brands, whatever works for you is the right way. I like to control the DOF on all my shots, and as long as the shutter speed is fast enough, (if I'm close enough I always use fill flash and that helps to) I don't care what it is.
I use aperture priority because it let's me use the "sweet spot" of my lenses. For example one of my most common used lenses is my Minolta 80-200mm 2.8. I know that this lens is sharpest between f4 and f8. Most of the time for wildlife I like a shallow depth of field so I'll shoot @ f4 with pre TTL fill flash. I can almost always get fast enough shutter speeds handheld in daylight that way. I just keep and eye on the shutter speed, if it drops to low I'll go wide open to f2.8. If it's to bright to shoot @ f4 I'll slap on a ND4 filter. If I want more DOF I'll stop down to f8.
Isn't the A700 an $800 camera body?$850 @ B&H right now Having all of those silly scene modes is consistent with what Nikon and Canon produce in the $800-1000 price range.
Was $1400 2yrs ago when I got it, ordered it as soon as it was announced. I'm jealous of how much the price has dropped, for $850 I think it is a heck of a deal. Rumors are it has been discontinued and a replacement is due very soon.
I waited 8 months to get the A900 hoping for a big price drop, only dropped $200. Then right after I get it they announce the A850, which has everything I wanted for $700 less then the A900. It seems I am always buying at the wrong time. :cry
PS. I just downloaded the Lightroom 3 beta today, the noise reduction seems to be a lot better than 2.5 :aok (at least on my files) Don't know if you use lightroom, but if you do I'd try it.
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So what processing software seems to be the best on the market right now? I'm using the in-camera Pentax software and then re-touch certain pics with Adobe; probably not optimal but it's what I have on hand.
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So what processing software seems to be the best on the market right now? I'm using the in-camera Pentax software and then re-touch certain pics with Adobe; probably not optimal but it's what I have on hand.
I use Adobe Lightroom and love it. Lets me import, keyword, catalog, do post processing, and export/upload to the web all it one program. The best part is that all the adjustments are parametric (non-destructive). So you have endless history, and no matter how badly you've mangled an image you can always get back to the original RAW.
Before Lightroom I used Photoshop CS2, which sucked for workflow. I had to use DNG converter to convert the Sony RAW to DNG, then I had to use Bridge to catalog and keyword, then ACR to do the RAW conversion, then Photoshop for post processing. Plus Photoshop only keeps a very short history, so if you screw something up, it's toast, so I had to keep a SEPARATE folder with all the original RAW files. It was a pain in the butt to say the least.
Lightroom is much more photographer friendly, and easier to use too. I still keep CS2 around for things like stitching and HDR though, which Lighroom does not do, but for most processing and adjustment Lightroom kicks butt.
You can download the Lightroom trial and use it for 30 days, then you have to pay. I think it retails for $299, but if your a student (or know a student willing to pick it up for you :noid) you can get it for $99. I also downloaded some Lightroom Tutorials from Luminous Landscape, which were very helpful in learning to use it.
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get beta 3
its better, faster and will work longer then trial
http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/lightroom3/