considering upgrading to an SLR - need some camera gurus help

[Tac]

My little panasonic lumix dz7 is almost 4 years old now and the 6mp with nifty features has and still serves me faithfully however i'm considering getting a more capable SLR camera. Sad thing is, I know ZILCH about cameras except they're always overpriced


So, here's what I'm looking for and would appreciate suggestions:

1- 10mpixel
2- capable of high speed photo. Aka I want to push that button and have it take dozens of pics a second (for when photographing moving objects)
3- I loathe digital zoom so i'll take the highest optical zoom i can get
4- price: This is absolutely important I really cant spend more than 500 bucks on the camera.

it's a begginer's slr camera so I really dont need one loaded with a bunch of bs features ill never use...and when/if I ever get to the point where i'd need them it will be many years from now and a camera upgrade would be on the table anyways.

suggestions?

[RTHolmes]

ive tried a few nikons and canons but my fav of all of them was olympus 420, well built, rugged feeling, compact and closest in handling to late gen film slrs. they do a tiny prime lens for it too so its genuinely pocketable (not sure how good that lens is tho) unlike any canon or nikon. I think theres a new version now with a flippy screen and some other goodies.

quite liked the nikon d40x, and hated every canon ive tried - creaky, plasticy and unneccesarily big. I had a canon A1 for years which was pretty big, but their dslr build quality is laughable in comparison. imo size is really important for anything except studio or tripod work, I took many better photos with my om10 before i got the A1, simply because it was small enough to have in my pocket when the picture happened in front of me. I guess decent digi compacts fill this role now tho.


edit: one great feature on the nikon d40x is the camera is never actually off, just sleeping. this means power off to taking a shot is practically instant, like a film slr, and unlike other dslrs ive tried. this alone would probably make me look at nikon first

[PiratPX]

It's either less than $500 or a DSLR with a high zoom lens . Seriously, decent lenses with zooming capability similar to your current camera can be more expensive than the camera itself.

[Fishu]

Honestly, if you can at most spend only $500, do not get an SLR. Just the body to fulfill your high speed photo requirement would cost ten fold. An SLR body under $500 can't really take more than some half a dozen frames a second, besides the buffer gets full after a second or two, which after the frames will have to be written on the memory disc to clear the buffer.

A decent lens to the body can cost $500. Lenses around 50mm are the most inexpensive and the further you go down or up, the more it'll cost. With a bad lens you're better off with a non-SLR camera. Cheap lens is a bad lens with a few exceptions; exceptions that doesn't suit your needs (or how would you like a fixed 50mm lens...). Around the 28-75mm range (depending on the make) there's a few decent lenses for around $300. Goes for indoor and landscape shoots as long as you don't need to get wide or zoom up (no shots of whole rooms or zooming up to a face across the room, let alone outdoors).

My advise is to have a budget of at least $1000 before going SLR, and a careful study what to buy. Perhaps a $600-700 body and one of the most balanced $300-400 lenses, this will get you a decent body that will last for a while and you can buy a better/more lenses when you get the money. The lens can be then sold for some $150-300 when you don't need it anymore. I would recommend Tamron 28-75mm F2.8 lens, which is quite nice for the price of about $300. Like said, it will lack in the wide and zoom ends, but the further you go either way, the more you'll have to pay.

Avoid buying a cheap SLR kit - the lenses are usually crap. If you buy a kit containing a body and one lens for cheap, do not go with any other lens than a lens of the same manufacturer as the body in the range of about 18-50mm. Most of the other kit lens options will be waste of money. 18-50mm kit lens of the same manufacturer will at least get you going without too much agony. But it will be F3.5-5.6 (which means slow in dark, especially at 50mm where it's at the highest F-range of 5.6) and only 50mm tops (though, 18mm is nice to have).

Eitherway, SLR is not a video camera (especially without money to buy a $5000 body). If you need a video camera, buy a video camera

Be warned: after you buy an SLR, you will shortly thereafter hunger for more accessories; camera bag, flash, extra battery, extra memory cards, more and better lenses... it's a slippery slope and you will slip. Imagine yourself as a heroine addict and you'll get the picture.
(the saying fits quite well in the situation )

[APDrone]

Fishu makes some good points..

Search for message forums and reviews about the different products..

Here's one of my favorites:
http://therealdotin.com/phpbb/index.php

Lot of good folks there willing to help out new users.

I would advise sticking with Nikon, Canon, or Sony ( gotta plug my A700...lol ) just for the flexibility of getting lenses.. for you'll find you spend more money on lenses that the camera body.

Also, I dont think any of the DSLRs will take dozens of shots a second ( except in video mode ) .. Mine will do 5/sec and that's pretty good.

Just beware that camera brands have the same loyalty that automakers have.. be prepared to see discussions that rival the best of the Skuzzified exchanges you've seen in here.. lol

Be patient and take your time.  There's a ton to learn to get fully educated on the DSLR world.  Know what, in general, you hope to accomplish and ask questions, search forums, and research.

Good luck!

[Fishu]

Also, I dont think any of the DSLRs will take dozens of shots a second ( except in video mode ) .. Mine will do 5/sec and that's pretty good.

Yeah, for example top of the line Canon EOS-1D Mark III (and Mk.IV which they just announced this week) can do 10 frames a second for up to 30 frames (that's whopping 3 seconds of continuous shooting). Video mode can, of course, shoot vidoe, but that's not as good quality as a single shot frame. Besides the video mode is a rather new thing for dSLRs. Video camera is a video camera and dSLR is a dSLR.

and the price of EOS-1D Mk.III you might ask? It's yours for only $3,999!

[john9001]

go to "dpreview.com" lots of camera information there.

[Tac]

Thats a good website for info thanks.

Found the Olympus E520 which seems like a damn good little dslr camera (but then again, i know squat about cameras lol)

i've put **** before the items that catch my attention, the rest is martian to me.

Estimated Retail Price: $499.99 *******
with 14-42mm lens ****(is this equivalent to what my lumix dz7 has or better?)

or a 2 lens kit which has the 14-42mm and ED 40-150mm Zoom lenses with the rest of the kit for $539.

E-520 Specs
Product Type    
Product type    Single-lens reflex Live View digital camera with interchangeable lens system
Memory    CompactFlash Type I/II, Microdrive, xD-Picture Card™ (Dual-Slot)
Sensor Size    17.3 mm (H) x 13.0 mm (V)
Lens mount    Four Thirds Mount
Effective Pixels    
Number of effective pixels    10 million pixels ***********
Image Pickup Unit    
Product type    Live MOS Sensor
Total pixels    Approx. 11.8 million pixels
Aspect ratio    1.33 (4:3)
Filter array    Primary color filter (RGB)
LPF    Fixed type
IR cut filter    Hybrid type
Dust reduction    Supersonic Wave Filter (dust-reduction system for image sensor) *******
Recording    
Recording format    DCF, DPOF compatible/Exif, PRINT Image Matching III
File format    RAW (12-bit), JPEG, RAW+JPEG
Recording image size    [RAW] 3648 x 2736 pixels
[JPEG] 3648 x 2736 pixels - 640 x 480 pixels

Viewfinder    
Product type    Eye-level single-lens reflex viewfinder
Field of view    Approx. 95%
Viewfinder magnification    Approx.0.92x (-1m-1, 50mm lens, infinity)
Eye point    Approx. 14 mm (-1m-1)
Diopter adjustment range    -3.0 - +1m-1
Focusing screen    Fixed (Neo Lumi-Micro Mat screen)
Eyepiece shutter    Eyepiece cap EP-4 supplied
Eye cup    Interchangeable type. EP-5 supplied. Optional EP-6, EP-7, Magnifier eyecup ME-1 available.
Preview    Can be checked (when FN button is set in preview mode),
selectable from the optical viewfinder or rear-mounted LCD monitor ***********
Viewfinder information    Aperture value, Shutter speed, Record mode, AF confirmation mark, Flash, WB, AE lock, Number of storable still images, Exposure compensation value, Metering mode, Battery warning, Exposure mode, AF frame (super impose). IS activating mode.


Live View ************   
Live View    Live MOS Sensor for still picture shooting is used, 100% field of view, Exposure adjustment preview, White balance adjustment preview, Gradation setting preview, Face detection preview, Perfect Shot preview, Grid line displayable, 7x/10x magnification possible, MF/S-AF, AF frame display, AF point display, Shooting information, Histogram, IS Activating mode.

AF    High-speed imager AF, Phase difference detection AF
Image Stabilizer    
System    Built-in (Imager shift image stabilizer)
Mode    3 modes
(2-dimensional activation (Horizontal + Vertical), 1-dimensional activation (Vertical), 1-dimensional activation (Horizontal)
Effective compensation range    Up to 4 EV steps maximum *******
   
LCD Display    
Product type    HyperCrystal™ II LCD (semi-transmissive TFT color LCD)
Size    2.7 inches
Total no. of pixels    Approx. 230,000 pixels
Playback field of view    100%
Brightness control    15 levels
Color balance    15 levels
Focusing    
AF system    TTL phase difference detection system, contrast detection system (with 25mm f2.8, 14-42mm f3.5-5.6, 40-150mm f4.0-5.6)
Focus mode    Single AF (S-AF) / Continuous AF (C-AF)* / Manual Focus (MF) / S-AF + MF / C-AF + MF
*C-AF mode is not available with the contrast detection system
Focusing point    3-point multiple AF with the phase difference detection system (Auto, selectable in option)
11-point multiple AF with the contrast detection system (Auto, selectable in option)
Focusing point selection    Auto/Option selectable
AF luminance range
(phase difference detection system)    EV 0 to 19 (at 20°C, ISO 100)
AF illuminator
(phase difference detection system)    Built-in flash (on/off selectable), external flash available.
AF lock    Locked at first position of Shutter button in Single AF mode / AEL button (customizable)
Focus tracking
(phase difference detection system)    Interlocked with Continuous AF mode
Focus aid    Available


Exposure Control    
Metering system    TTL open-aperture metering system
(1) Digital ESP metering (49-point multipattern metering); (2) Center-weighted average metering; (3) Spot metering (approx. 2% of the viewfinder screen); (4) Spot with Highlight control; (5) Spot with Shadow control
Metering range    EV 1 - 20 (Digital ESP metering, Center-weighted average metering, Spot metering)
(At normal temperature, 50mm f2, ISO 100)
Exposure mode    (1) Auto; (2) P: Program AE (Program shift can be performed); (3) A: Aperture priority AE; (4) S: Shutter priority AE; (5) M: Manual; (6) Scene program AE; (7) Scene select AE
Scene program AE    Portrait, Landscape, Macro, Sport, Night + Portrait
Scene select AE    Portrait, Landscape, Landscape + Portrait, Night Scene, Night + Portrait, Children, Sport, High Key, Low Key, Digital Image Stabilization, Macro, Nature Macro, Candle, Sunset, Fireworks, Documents, Panorama (requires Olympus xD-Picture Card media), Beach & Snow, Underwater Wide, Underwater Macro

[Tac]

ISO sensitivity    AUTO (ISO 100 - 1600) / Manual (ISO 100 - 1600), 1 EV steps ******
Exposure compensation    ±5 EV in 1/3, 1/2, 1 EV steps selectable *********
AE lock    Locked by first position of Shutter button / AEL button (customizable)
Exposure bracketing    3 frames in 1/3, 1/2, 2/3, 1 EV steps selectable
White Balance    
Auto WB system    Advanced detection system with Live MOS sensor
Preset white balance    8 settings (3000K - 7500K): Lamp (3000K), Fluorescent 1 (4000K), Fluorescent 2 (4500K), Fluorescent 3 (6600K), Daylight (5300K), Cloudy (6000K), Shade (7500K)
White balance compensation    ±7 steps in each A-B/G-M axis (in Auto WB/Preset WB mode)
Custom white balance    1 temperature setting can be registered in degrees Kelvin (2000K - 14000K)
One-touch white balance    1 custom setting can be registered
Color Mode    
Color matrix    sRGB, Adobe RGB
Picture Mode    
Mode    Vivid, Natural (default setting), Muted, Portrait, Monotone, Custom
Adjustment parameter    Contrast, Sharpness and Saturation level available in 5 steps for Vivid, Natural, Muted and Portrait
Contrast and Sharpness level available in 5 steps for Monotone
Filter effect    Yellow, Orange, Red or Green filter available for Monotone
Picture tone    Sepia, Blue, Purple or Green tone available for Monotone
Gradation    4 levels (Auto, high key, normal, low key)
Shutter    
Product type    Computerized focal-plane shutter
Shutter speed    Auto mode: 2 - 1/4000 sec. (depends on settings), P(Ps), S, A, M mode: 60 - 1/4000 sec. (Bulb: up to 30 min. with limiter), Scene program/Scene select mode: 4 - 1/4000 sec. (depends on settings) 1/3, 1/2, 1 EV steps selectable
Self-timer    Operation time: 12 sec., 2 sec. (cancel available)
Remote cable release    Available (with optional RM-UC1 Remote Cable)
Optical remote control    Operation time: 2 sec., 0 sec., bulb control available (with optional RM-1 Remote Control)
Anti-shock mode    Available (1 to 30 sec. selectable)
Drive    
Drive mode    Single-frame shooting, Sequential shooting, Self-timer, Remote control
Sequential shooting speed    Approx. 3.5 frames/sec.  *********
Max. recordable pictures    RAW mode: Max. 8 frames
on sequential shooting    JPEG mode: Depends on compression ratio and no. of pixels (LN mode: approx. up to card capacity with SanDisk Extreme III 1GB)

Integrated Flash    
Built-in flash    Retractable flash (Auto pop-up type), GN=12 (ISO 100.m)
Compatible external flash    FL-50R, FL-36R, FL-50, FL-36, FL-20
Flash control mode    TTL Auto (TTL pre-flash mode), Auto, Manual
Flash mode    Auto, Red-eye reduction, Red-eye reduction slow sync., Slow synchronization, Fill-in, Manual (1/4, 1/16, 1/64), Off.
Synchronization speed    1/180 sec. or less, Super FP up to 1/4000 sec.
Flash intensity control    Up to ±2 EV in 1/3, 1/2 or 1 EV steps
Synchronization timing    1st curtain synchronization/2nd curtain slow synchronization (selectable)
Flash bracketing    3 frames in 0.3, 0.5, 0.7, 1 EV steps selectable
Wireless flash control    
Compatible external flash    FL-50R, FL-36R
Control method    Triggered and controlled by built-in flash light
Flash control modes    TTL Auto (TTL pre-flash mode), Auto, Manual, FP TTL Auto, FP Manual
Number of channels    4 channels
Group setting    3 groups
Super control panel    
Information (Shooting)    Battery information, Exposure mode, Shutter speed, Aperture value, Exposure compensation value, ISO sensitivity, Exposure compensation indicator, Exposure indicator, Flash intensity compensation indicator, Date, BKT setting, NR setting, WB, WB compensation value, Picture mode, Flash mode, Record mode, Image size, Card information, Drive mode, Flash intensity compensation value, Metering mode, Recordable still image number, Focusing mode, FP warning, AF frame, AF illuminator deactivated notification, Color space, Sharpness, Contrast, Saturation, Gradation, IS activating mode, Face detection, RC mode setting
Information (Wireless flash commander)    Exposure mode, Shutter speed, Aperture value, Exposure compensation indicator, Exposure compensation value, Flash compensation indicator, Flash compensation value, ALE notification, Flash compensation notification, NR notification, BKT notification, AF illuminator deactivated notification, Color space, IS activating mode, Wireless channel setting, Built-in flash intensity, Group setting
Back light timer    Back light lighting time is selectable (Keep, 8 sec., 30 sec., 1 min.)
Playback    
Playback modes    Single-frame, Index (4/9/16/25/49/100 frames), Calendar, Close-up ( 2 - 14X), Slideshow, Picture rotation (auto mode available), Light box
Information display    Histogram (independent luminance/RGB available),
Highlight/Shadow point warning, AF frame, Shooting information
Menu    
Languages    Americas: English, French, Spanish, Portuguese
Custom setting    
Custom function    Fn button is available to set 10 functions: Face detection, Preview, Live preview, One-touch WB, AF home position, MF, Record mode, Test picture, My mode, Off
Drive button is available to set six functions: Drive, AF target selection, AF mode, WB mode, Metering mode, ISO setting)
Custom reset    2 settings are recordable
My mode    2 settings are recordable
Image Editing    
Erasing function    Single frame, All frames, Selected frames (with protect function)
Protect function    Single frame, Selected frames, Release protect (Single/All selected)
Copy between media    Single frame, All frames, Selected frames
RAW picture editing    RAW development
JPEG editing    Shadow Adjustment, Red-eye fix, Triming, Monotone, Sepia, Saturation (color depth), Resize (producing another file)
Print    
Print function    Print reservation (DPOF), Direct print (PictBridge compatible)
Input/Output    
PC interface    High Speed USB for storage and camera control (MTP mode is available)
USB/Video connector    Dedicated multi-connector (Video: NTSC/PAL selectable, Optional remote cable RM-UC1 is available)
Flash attachment    Hot shoe
Power Requirements    
Battery    BLM-1 Li-ion battery (included)
Sleep mode    Available (1, 3, 5, 10 min., Off selectable)
No. of recordable pictures    Approx. 650 shots (optical viewfinder)
(with BLM-1 under CIPA testing standard)
Dimensions/Weight    
Dimensions    5.4 in. (W) x 3.6 in.(H) x 2.7 in. D / 136 mm (W) x 91.5 mm (H) x 68 mm (D) (excluding protrusions)
Weight    16.8 oz. / 475 g (body only)

Box contents    
   E-520 (outfit contents), ED 14-42mm Zoom lens, Li-ion Battery BLM-1, Li-ion battery charger BCM-2, USB 2.0 cable, Video cable, Shoulder strap, OLYMPUS Master 2 CD-ROM, Instruction Manual, Registration card, Eyepiece cap EP-4, Lens and Body Caps, Lens Hood


I know more money has to be put into it for lenses and memory cards but thats for the future. for now this one SEEMS to fit all that I need at the price I need. However most of the above is gibberish to me.

questions:
-Is the lens that comes with it worse, equal, or better than my current lumix dz7?
-what optical zoom does this slr have? (my lumix is 12x)
-it can shoot almost 4 per second which is good..my lumix does 3 BUT my lumix does it only after taking a minuto programming the damn thing with a menu to do it..so on a snap situation it makes one lose the moment and the shot.. does any of the above say this is the same?
-anyone have this camera by any chance?

[Sandman]

At under $500, forget DSLR and go with a Canon G11.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0908/09081908canong11.asp

[Reschke]

This is the one I am getting my wife for Christmas. It will work with all her existing SLR lenses that she has bought since she bought herself the Pentax K100 a few years ago. She wants something that will do high speed action shots better and will be compatible with all her lenses from 35mm film days.

http://digital-photography-school.com/pentax-k7-dslr

Plus it is just as good as a Nikon, Olympus or Canon and the cost is a little better than those with what she is looking for in a camera.

[Sandman]

Oh... and just to put things in perspective. I have a Nikon D300. It'll do 6.5 frames per second. With the battery pack, it'll do 8.

Cost is $1800 for the body alone.

[DREDIOCK]

It's either less than $500 or a DSLR with a high zoom lens . Seriously, decent lenses with zooming capability similar to your current camera can be more expensive than the camera itself.

Tell me about it. I was thinking about getting a wide angle zoom for the Rebel I got my wife a coupe Christmas's ago. Nothing to over the top uber. Just a decent lens.
Then I looked at the prices and went  .

Like I said. "I WAS thinking" about it

[saggs]

I call myself a "semi-pro" photographer, meaning I don't do enough jobs to make a full time living, but I do enough to make a fair profit, and keep up my photo hobby, which I've been doing for 12+ yrs.  I even still shoot film sometimes, hard to believe I know.

Like others have said it'll be tough to find a decent set-up for under $500.  Most brands have beginner bodies out for under $500, but if you want a decent lens to go with it that's gonna a lot more.  

My current SLRs are Sony's and I don't follow other brands prices that closely but:

Nikon D40, D5000
Sony A200, A3xx
Canon Rebel xt bla bla
Pentax K-x
Olympus E-somthin or other

all under $500 I think, probably a little more with a kit lens.  Most kit lenses suck though, a good standard zoom 24-70mm, 28-80mm will also be $300+, and a good flash another $200+, and a good tripod $100+.

So get whatever camera you decide on, then start saving up again and buy some better lenses.  If you really get into photography you will spend much more on lenses than cameras anyway.  I currently have about $4k worth of camera's but probably $6k in lenses.  Thing to remember, is that with digital, cameras will be outdated in a several years as sensor technology gets better and better, while a good lens will last a lifetime.

All of the brands I've mentioned make great camera's and lenses, and all have their strengths and weaknesses.  So don't get stuck on brand loyalty like many do, just get what you feel comfortable with.  If as you learn more you decide that another brand suits you better then you can switch later.

Lastly learn at least the basics of photography, it drives me nuts to see all the soccer mom's with their DSLRs that stay "p" mode or the green square the whole time.  Even beginner cameras can create fantastic images if you learn how to use it.  If you just leave it on auto the whole time, you'd be better off with a point and shoot.

Some websites to check out:

www.dpreview.com
 -has lots of camera reviews, but I'd not believe everything you read in the forums there, lots of die hard "brand fans" there that spent more time arguing about which brand is better than making photos.

www.SLRgear.com
-the place to go for lens reviews

www.Luminous-landscape.com
-thousands of articles, essays and reviews, and a much more useful forum than dpreview

www.cambridgeincolour.com
-Lots of great tutorials to help you understand how photography works.

AND

www.kirksagers.com
-My website, badly in need of an update, but I've been lazy latley.

Hope I've helped and not just confused.





 

[saggs]

This is the one I am getting my wife for Christmas. It will work with all her existing SLR lenses that she has bought since she bought herself the Pentax K100 a few years ago. She wants something that will do high speed action shots better and will be compatible with all her lenses from 35mm film days.

http://digital-photography-school.com/pentax-k7-dslr

Plus it is just as good as a Nikon, Olympus or Canon and the cost is a little better than those with what she is looking for in a camera.

I've heard lots of good things about the K-7, in fact the only serious complaint I've heard is the autofocus can be finnicky.  Great thing about Pentax (and Sony) is the in body stabilization which will make all your wife's old lenses stabilized.