Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: LYNX on November 04, 2009, 11:41:06 AM
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Life after death
There are those that believe in it and those that don't. Then there are those of us who have experienced it.
I am getting into writing and have written about an experience I had as a child. It's in the link below (1362 words long) to save space here.
http://barronbourne.blogspot.com/
Feel free to comment on the story but please don't turn it into a religious thing. I especially welcome critics on my writing...good and bad. That in all honesty is what I'm looking for.
Regards
Lynx
Steve
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How much of the knowledge do you believe/feel you kept in tact when you came back?
It is something I wonder as we all know that there is much more to learn than we have time for, or should I say believe we have time for. This way of thinking is what, I believe stops us from truly accepting and opening up to what is about us. Experiences of this nature (being shown all) happens to others in other ways and only understand or know that they have experienced this information through hypnosis.
Also do you know how long you were gone for?
As for the writing...I know nothing about it, other than you read it...this I felt was easy to read and kept me wanting to continue....even when it stopped...give me more, give me more.
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Very interesting! That was very well written LYNX, I do read often and I can tell you that was one of the better books! The only thing I can criticize that for is a few punctuation errors, but I got the message all the same. :)
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"For the majority of use" should be "For the majority of us..."
"Aided in our passing by medication administered by caring yet comparative strangers." is a sentence fragment.
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Well done Lynx. Again, a few grammatical and punctuation errors, but a good read, very captivating.
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How much of the knowledge do you believe/feel you kept in tact when you came back?
It is something I wonder as we all know that there is much more to learn than we have time for, or should I say believe we have time for. This way of thinking is what, I believe stops us from truly accepting and opening up to what is about us. Experiences of this nature (being shown all) happens to others in other ways and only understand or know that they have experienced this information through hypnosis.
Also do you know how long you were gone for?
As for the writing...I know nothing about it, other than you read it...this I felt was easy to read and kept me wanting to continue....even when it stopped...give me more, give me more.
Thanks for reading. Glad you enjoyed it. I will finish the story which has other classic life after death symptoms....for want of a better word. As for "remembering" I'm afraid it wasn't saved. Much like working on your PC and you have an unexpected power out. I'm not afraid of death though...just the means of getting there ;)
This whole episode didn't seem to last much more than a minute as fare as I was aware.
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Mar
Very interesting! That was very well written LYNX, I do read often and I can tell you that was one of the better books! The only thing I can criticize that for is a few punctuation errors, but I got the message all the same.
Dragon
Well done Lynx. Again, a few grammatical and punctuation errors, but a good read, very captivating.
Thanks lads. I know I'm weak on the punctuation. I fear this is going to be a repetitive theme with my writing. It always has. Thanks for reading though.
Anaxogoras
"For the majority of use" should be "For the majority of us..."
"Aided in our passing by medication administered by caring yet comparative strangers." is a sentence fragment.
Thanks for that ...dunno why I put an "e" in there. i get what your saying about fragmented. I've changed it and another sentence at the end of the second paragraph. It didn't seem to flow right.
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Definitely different, I liked it.
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Very very interesting reading LYNX and very well written.
However I didn't like the technological references, barcode readers, MS or uploading. While they may be even unclear to somebody of what they actually mean, they even I didn't quite capture their meaning and I really thought that you could have made the point without using them in the first place. That would have made the story more "timeless" and that would fit the story much better. Now the technical references sort of point somewhere else in the text without finding their footing.
-C+
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Gutsy Lynx, very very gutsy. First to find the internal fortitude to write about an event that tramatic. Second to share it with this community. But then I always knew you were a strong one. Class act all the way. <S>
I guess to me the question is was it death you experienced? Or just a very profound out of body experience?
Travel on the "Astral Plane" could in my opinion be exactly as you describe it.
Also I find myself asking "does it really matter what it was"??
You needed help, somewhere, somehow you found that. Death, Astral Travel, Mental mind games, does the source matter when your drowning in pain? I think not, all that matters is that you found a way to rise above the pain. To gain some strength from whatever source to resist it.
Personally until proven otherwise I'll take Gandalf's description of "the other side" from the Lord of the Rings.
None of us truly know what is on the other side of that final door. Not until we have passed it beyond all returning.
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Very very interesting reading LYNX and very well written.
However I didn't like the technological references, barcode readers, MS or uploading. While they may be even unclear to somebody of what they actually mean, they even I didn't quite capture their meaning and I really thought that you could have made the point without using them in the first place. That would have made the story more "timeless" and that would fit the story much better. Now the technical references sort of point somewhere else in the text without finding their footing.
-C+
Thanks man...glad you like it and thanks for the input. I deleted the microsoft thing....basically it was saying the same thing twice.
Yer...The bar code thing was clumsy so I changed it to :-
I became aware of an entity of a man walking up the cobbled road. As he passed me by I viewed all the information about him, much like a scanner would a bar code.
This way it rolls better and is easier to follow.
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LYNX...an interesting read, sir, and one that surely is based upon personal experience.
I'd like to pass on to you a small, but powerful phrase that was passed on to me by a writing teacher: "Show, don't tell" .
If you'd like to explore that phrase further, please PM me. :)
Keep writing, and keep reading!
:salute
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Nice read Lynx.
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That was an interesting read.
My grandfather "died" of a heart attack in 1974. Cardiac arrest for some 4 minutes (estimated). He, being rather UN-religious, experienced nothing but complete darkness during his unconciousness. He was jump started with an adrenaline shot, and recalled the aftermath of that quite well. "Like being cut to pieces and every piece tortured seperatly" he said. It was the kick of his blood running again after a standstill.
Anyway, he was dead for long enough to get a slight brain damage, yet not long enough to "experience" the other side.
So, that was his case. I had a different one, and managed to make a proper fool out of myself because of it.
You see, I sometimes see dead people.
Sounds like a cliche, but really, I am serious!
I know of two cases. The first one was a guy I used to work with. I was at his place (big family) and briefly met him, - just a mere salute as he passed me. I recall that I could not smell him as usually (his work left him with a definate odour). Anyway, some month or two later, I got the news that the guy had actually been dead for a year!!!
A second time was just a rough year ago. I had to go to the bank, and I noticed this old guy I know sitting in the passenger seat of his car. I waved, but he did not see me. He did not look too well, but he was quite old.
A few months later (maybe 2), I was dining with his grand daughter and her husband. I asked how the old guy was, only to get an uncomfortable answer. He died a year ago. I had missed that one.
One's brain may fail at times, but in this case I think it was nothing of the sort. Especially the first encounter, it was close, and took some few seconds. (I saw the guy after just getting his boots on). So, Ghosts I guess, which would mean some sort of an after-life.
Just my little input. I've had much more, but these two are the ones where I openly made a fool of myself, - in other cases I managed to hide it.
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"Seeing the other side" is just your brain providing brief entertainment while it scrambles and shuts down systems in an effort to keep your core functions operational. It's well documented.
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Ghosth
Thanks for the complements. In many respects I'm with you but like you say we'll never know...not on this plain anyways.
Bodhi
Thanks ...glad you liked it.
Regards
Lynx
Steve
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Well written. Reminds me of the surgery I had as a kid. When I was under, it was like watching the static on tv (for those who remember tv before cable and digital tuning) with that god-awful taste in my mouth from the ether.
The white light you mention was the tape they put over your eyes during REM. :rolleyes:
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Very good story I enjoyed it. Though there was one part I didn't like: the part where you give up (no hard feelings, I know you were only 12). I'm a firm believer in the human will to survive. It can overcome many things. I think Ghosth hit the nail on the head in his analysis. Subconsciously, you knew you had to survive. You just had to find the strength to keep fighting.
Thank you for sharing that with us. That definitely takes some cojones.
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"Seeing the other side" is just your brain providing brief entertainment while it scrambles and shuts down systems in an effort to keep your core functions operational. It's well documented.
I'd like a link to this please. The reason being I'm open minded about it all but I have to say those in the medical practise are taught to be self assertive. They do, after all, have to make some "fine line" judgement calls. I'm not saying their wrong just that they can be over bearing with their assertions.
As you can asscertain I'm a believer of the after life but would like to know how "medicine" can messure what some of us would perceive as the soul or spirit... of ones self being.
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Really riveting Lynx.
But due to the nature of it I was left a bit scared and depressed, so in short. BRILLIANT.
But all the same, I think I will continue reading about Biggles and Algy with Jolly old ginger at their side thanks.
Nice work :aok
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Nice read Lynx. It's interesting to me especially, I'm in the middle of writting a book that deal with the subject of life after death and many other philosophical questions. It's taking me a long time as i wont force myself to write unless it comes easily.
I liked your writing style. If there was more I would surely have carried on reading. I'd be interested to talk about this with you, if you ever had the time.
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Great story Lynx.
And you all have to remember we are allready dead, its not a question of if or where but when, could be tomorrow or in 50 years.
As to Life after Death consider this, the same molecules that make up the walls around you, the chair you sit on right now, are no different then the molecules that make up our bodies.
So what are we? what is this concious being that looks thru these physical eyes? I don't know but I do know that energy can't be created nor destroyed only transformed ;)
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You're calling me a chair huh?!?!?!?!
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Nice read Lynx. It's interesting to me especially, I'm in the middle of writting a book that deal with the subject of life after death and many other philosophical questions. It's taking me a long time as i wont force myself to write unless it comes easily.
I liked your writing style. If there was more I would surely have carried on reading. I'd be interested to talk about this with you, if you ever had the time.
The kettles on. Pop round for a cuppa an a chat or alternatively read your PM :salute
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Great story Lynx.
And you all have to remember we are allready dead, its not a question of if or where but when, could be tomorrow or in 50 years.
As to Life after Death consider this, the same molecules that make up the walls around you, the chair you sit on right now, are no different then the molecules that make up our bodies.
So what are we? what is this concious being that looks thru these physical eyes? I don't know but I do know that energy can't be created nor destroyed only transformed ;)
He doesn't know how to say "hydro-carbons" in a polite way.
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Unreadable. Have a nice day.
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He doesn't know how to say "hydro-carbons" in a polite way.
And the carbon in the hydro-carbons differs in what way to the carbon that is everywhere else?
In Germany there is a saying "If you don't have anything to say just shut the diddly up!"
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Unreadable. Have a nice day.
I did amend something earlier. Perhaps it was then that you couldn't access the site. It works fine now.
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Unreadable. Have a nice day.
:huh Someone didn't have their Wheaties this morning. Constructive criticism is an art lost on the lazy.
To be quite honest, I agree with Indy's assessment here of what is actually happening. That being said, from a stylistic view I believe it is for the most part well written. I've got a couple quick suggestions to consider:
1. Due to my previously mentioned belief, I would make the tone more neutral -- particularly the introduction. Show the reader what happened, but let him/her decide what it all means.
2. I would have to agree that your interjections of technical equipment and terminology seemed out of place and a little forced.
3. Try to maintain a consistent voice. At some points you seem to be writing from the perspective of a 12 year old kid "My right side hurt awful bad " and others you are clearly at an advanced stage "Sirens once again emphasized the drama of the charge, trumpeting me awake from my painless slumber." I understand the logic of wanting to speak from the voice of each given time, but as a reader (to me at least) it is a bit distracting.
4. Careful with your tense. Depending on your target audience for this piece, the amalgamation of present, simple past, and present perfect can be tough to follow at times. (or stomach, if you are an English nazi :D ) Again this could be a non-issue, assuming different audiences.
As a whole, I enjoyed it even if I have a drastically different view of what you experienced. It definitely takes some cojones to put it out there in the first place! :salute
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As you once told me.
"A gambling man will believe in god, because he's got nothing to lose."
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Angus
Thanks for that. My house was built 150 years ago and every September we have someone walk along our upstairs landing. The first time I saw it was when I was on the PC playing with the bedroom door open. From my periphery I thought my wife had walked past the door so I starts talking to her. No answer... so I going looking in bath room and our bedroom...nothing. I find her down stairs watching TV. The wife has had the same thing and even thought I was standing in the doorway to the bedroom. When she rolled over there was nothing there.
GFShill
Thanks for reading and the complement. Got to add they don't use tape here... even today. They may do in theater but not on the wards while your recuperating.
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Just had a chance to read this LYNX. I very much, for lack of the right word, enjoyed it.
My Grandfather, who outside of my father was the best, most honest, caring man I ever knew, had one of those experiences after a heart attack. He was a very religious man and it changed his outlook on everything. He didn't talk about it much, but it sounds similar to your experience. I remember him saying the ministers had it all wrong. He saw many people who had gone before him including folks he had only barely crossed paths with, but somehow had made a difference. The one I remember specifically him talking about was the old man who'd lived nearby when grandpa was a kid. The old man was a bit of a shut in, but my grandfather had helped him with his yard a few times. The biggest thing that stuck with me was his saying that those who loved us were all around us all the time. There was comfort in that, and at that point I lost any fear of dying.
Having just passed 4 years since my son and daughter were killed in a car wreck, I keep moving believing I will be with them again some day. I say that to lead into talking about my wife's experience since the accident. That night as we raced to the hospital where our daughter was being brought, we already knew our son had died. It was about an hour drive. Halfway there my wife stopped suddenly and said "Andy's here!" She could feel him in her chest. It was an overwhelmingly powerful feeling for her. About 15 minutes later, she sat up again. "Christina's here!" It was the same feeling and she could distinguish between the two kids. It was crushing to hear as to me it confirmed we were losing Chris too. When we got to the hospital, Christina was still technically alive, on a vent, breathing for her, but there was no brain function. When we took her off the vent, she couldn't breath on her own and we lost her too. My wife had no way of knowing at that point that we would lose Chris, so that feeling that Chris was with her, was not prompted by anything. We still had hope Chris would survive.
Since then there have been times where my wife will have one or both of the kids 'visit' her. She can always tell which one. or even which side Chris or Drew is on. It's like a warm feeling on her cheek and it comforts her. I can't say it's ever happened to me as much as I wish it would. Just last night was the first time in a while where my wife all of a sudden stopped and said' The kids are here!" There was nothing happening to prompt it, no great saddness at the moment or talk of the kids. In fact we were playing with our little guy Matthew at the time.
Anyway, I guess what I'm saying, is while not being a very religious person, I do believe there is something beyond this life and stories like yours just confirm it for me, which is comforting. So thanks for sharing it.
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Thank you for this Guppy.
This is very close to what I and more I know have experienced. Very very close. Not sure if I will post it though, may consider some items.
Good thread Lynx.
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Guppy35 / Dan
Oh man! that was very moving I feel for you and your Mrs mate. The lose of your kids, at the time, must have been harrowing but as your aware "Time" is a comforter. By that I mean things get easier to live with.
As you're probable aware I was in hospital recently. Getting a reversal of me colostomy bag. Glad I don't have the bloody thing any more. A discusting humiliating contraption of nothing less than controlled incontinence but an unfortunate by product of life saving surgery back in January.
So there I am on this 4 bedder renal ward. I'm the youngest (47 yrs old ) chirpy and chuffed that me life is about to be set on track for ... normality. One of me fellow inmates is behind a curtain the other 2 older guys are subdude. It transpire the guy behind the curtain is dead. The guy next to me who has a complexion of nicotine yellow is terminal with pancreatic cancer and liver problems.
Now I'm starting to get a tad bumbed out. I got a dead guy and a guy that's gonna be. What do you say to a guy like that in his position. Over a couple of days one builds up a certain friendship, camaraderie with fellow patience. Being a former car salesman I steered my yellow friend into a private conversation. I related my story to him. I had no idea of his reaction but I did it in a way for it (my experience) to be a conversation about me. A matter of fact type of thing relating to an incident of the past. I then shut up to. He draws up a bit closer and says that when his mother was in hospital dieing, some 30 years back. He was in his bedroom getting dressed to go visit her. As he's doing his tie up in the mirror he hears his mothers voice saying "no need to rush. I'm not there anymore". Sure enough when he gets to hospital his mother had passed on. He then tells me in a much lower voice. "I've never told a single soul about that".
In one sense I was pleased that a thing he had held so private, he had shared with a comparative stranger .. me. I can only hope my experience has helped him in some way with his predicament.
P.S I'm not a religious person but there is something bigger out there.
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I'll tell you one of the things that happened to me.
Back in 1990-1991 I lived in a small room in my grandmother's house. My granfather was dead, and she, born in 1911, had me as a house "guest" for several years.
Anyway, she used to go on visits to her sisters in the capital etc, so I was often alone in the house. But not alone, since there was something there.
It was a very small house, basement and top floor, the floor being of wood. There was an entrance on both floors, at the same place, so that the entrance downstairs where I lived was ybder the stairs up, and they were joined with a steep wooden stairway (similar as in a ship) on the inside.
The house, being built in 1936 was as so many houses of that era, build of all sorts of scrap, - it was after all, short ways from the great depression, and material was scarce. And that means a small house (20 by 20 feet) and thin boards. Creaky floors, - I could always hear from below where in the house my grandma was, and which shoes she was wearing.
Anyway, I started observing that there was somebody walking upstairs. I would have guessed a heavy male wearing no shoes. The walking was from the living room into the kitchen, or from one living room to another.
At first I was startled and jumped upstairs, and there was nothing there. There was no chance of getting out, since the stairs left me straight at the entrance, and the door was locked, and a noisy one too.
There was an odd feeling about this, since I felt no hostility. (oh, I had some taste of worse "things"). So, I sort of got used to this "walking". The "walking also increased, and was at times a daily event.
One fine day, I had just arrived and was standing below the stairs, when the "walker" walked from the living room into the kitchen. I sneaked on to the lower platform of the stairs and grabbed the handrail, and I heard the "walker" again in the kitchen. So, in one leap, I hurled myself upwards, it was perhaps two seconds before I was loking into the kitchen, blocking the out-door with my back (in my position I could see them from where I started my jump thereby eliminating any physical exit). All fell silent. There was nothing there. No catch for me ;)
Anyway, I got used to this, so I didn't really bother. That can not be said about other people. My dad used to come and stay with me, and he was startled at first, then got used to it. I used to have workers, and they shared the room with me, one of them got quite used to this ,but then there was one, who got quite uncomfortable about this.
He was a Danishman, a rationally thinking vetrenary student, and one of the best persons I ever employed. Being quite disciplined, he would always get out of bed an hour before the job, shower and shave and put some entry in his diary.
One fine morning, the "walker" went rattling all over the floor. Quite noisy this time. And the Dane asked me if my grandmother was back. I said "No, it's just the house-ghost". He was baffled with that answer, and after some more rattle, he went upstairs to investigate. When he came back, he was completely pale and in a state of confusion. "I don't get it, the door was locked, and there was no way anyone could have made it out, and the floor is empty". "I told you" I said, "you won't catch this one".
He was always quite puzzled about this, and will probably never forget.
Another worker of mine (who had gotten used to this) had a girlfriend. One rainy night, the girlfriend went to some school party. We decided to find a party for ourselves, and ended up on a farm some couple of miles away. In the meantime, the girlfriend decided to make a short ending on her party, and went to our place.
The place was empty of course, except the "walker" was in a merry mood. She got scared out of her mind, and anticipating where we were, badly dressed, ran through the dark and the rain to the farm where we were!!!
Next day, my worker detected some triumphand footsteps above him.
I never found out more. The house has now been empty since my grandmother passed more than 11 years ago. People in the street have told me there is often someone there, looking out the kitchen window, then disappearing. I am not surprized, but I am always curious who this friend of mine was.
That was just one story, and honestly, this is absolutely true!!!
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:huh Someone didn't have their Wheaties this morning. Constructive criticism is an art lost on the lazy.
To be quite honest, I agree with Indy's assessment here of what is actually happening. That being said, from a stylistic view I believe it is for the most part well written. I've got a couple quick suggestions to consider:
1. Due to my previously mentioned belief, I would make the tone more neutral -- particularly the introduction. Show the reader what happened, but let him/her decide what it all means.
2. I would have to agree that your interjections of technical equipment and terminology seemed out of place and a little forced.
3. Try to maintain a consistent voice. At some points you seem to be writing from the perspective of a 12 year old kid "My right side hurt awful bad " and others you are clearly at an advanced stage "Sirens once again emphasized the drama of the charge, trumpeting me awake from my painless slumber." I understand the logic of wanting to speak from the voice of each given time, but as a reader (to me at least) it is a bit distracting.
4. Careful with your tense. Depending on your target audience for this piece, the amalgamation of present, simple past, and present perfect can be tough to follow at times. (or stomach, if you are an English nazi :D ) Again this could be a non-issue, assuming different audiences.
As a whole, I enjoyed it even if I have a drastically different view of what you experienced. It definitely takes some cojones to put it out there in the first place! :salute
Thanks for that. You made some fair comments and its appreciated. I'll bear some of that in mind for future writting.
Plawranc and Viperius Thanks for the complements lads. :salute
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As you once told me.
"A gambling man will believe in god, because he's got nothing to lose."
yep....I'll put a fiver on it lol
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Sorry guys... Geomagnetic fields + sensitive temporal lobe = ghosts.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200302/galvanizing-ghosts
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Sorry guys... Geomagnetic fields + sensitive temporal lobe = ghosts.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200302/galvanizing-ghosts
LOL
you keep believing that...the good part is we will ALL know the truth as we ALL have to pass from this life to the next and the next and the next and the next...until we get it right and by the looks of things.. we have a very long way/time to go.
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I read that report Die Hard, I must say it seems like the kind of thing someone with very unsensitive frontal lobes would write.
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Sorry guys... Geomagnetic fields + sensitive temporal lobe = ghosts.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200302/galvanizing-ghosts
Doesn't explain very clear footsteps less than a yard from several people....
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LOL
you keep believing that...the good part is we will ALL know the truth as we ALL have to pass from this life to the next and the next and the next and the next...until we get it right and by the looks of things.. we have a very long way/time to go.
i don't want to come back and do it over, once was hard enough.
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I drowned when I was 4 1/2, I was walking by the side of a swimming pool on holiday and fell in the deep end, the only reason why my parents knew I was under the water, was when a man walked out onto his balcony and saw me at the bottom of the pool motionless. He then shouted down pointing " there's a boy in the pool" my dad looked up saw I was not around ran over and see me at the bottom, dived in and pulled me out.
My only memory of the incident was seeing my arms pointing up to the surface of the water. After that it took about 6 months to get me into a bath or shower. I remember my first bath after the incident as my parents were on holiday in Thailand and I was being looked after by one of my uncles..they ran me a bath and I just hopped. There was a huge celebration after that :rofl
and then it took me about another 6 months before I would go back into a swimming pool for swimming lessons, but once I learned to swim nothing stopped me, I carried on swimming at the swimming club until I joint the army where I was in the swimming and water polo team. I am a very strong swimming and I have 0 fear of water and my fav activities are water sports.
I have been very close to death, I've been hit by a car when I was 8 and cracked a few ribs, been in a car when it was driven into a river and when I was in Afghanistan we were under rocket/mortar attack daily at some points of the tour.
None of my experiences involved a kind of life after death moments but due to my experiences I certainly do not believe in anything about a purpose to live or fate etc... Just pure luck or unluck, and being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
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i don't want to come back and do it over, once was hard enough.
"you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave..."
<--- knows "spirits" - or whatever you choose to call them - frequent and walk near us. I grew up in our old family "homeplace" that my father's great-grandfather had built in the late 1860's not long after returning home from the civil war. My great-grandmother (dad's grandmother and great-great-garanpa's daughter) died in the front room of that house of natural causes when my father was a young man. My dad bought the house from my great uncle in the early '70's and remodelled it, and we grew up there, myself and my two brothers. Every now and then we would hear a person walking around the house, from room to room, when all of us were in the room together. One time the footsteps walked right up to the bed my older brother was in, in the same room of the house where "Grandma Booth" (as we referred to her) had died. He turned on the lamp to find no one there, but he was pretty spooked and couldn't deal with it. He moved out that weekend.
My grandfather, in 1952, died in the house my father grew up in from an accidental discharge of his shotgun after returning from a hunting trip. My dad was 9 at the time, the oldest of 5 kids. When my grandmother passed away a few years ago my younder brother inherited the home and up until about 8 montha ago he and his wife and two sons lived there. Worth, the younger of the two, had his bedroom in the room where Grandpa died. He was about 2 and a half or three years old when he started talking about the man that watched him at night. He told his mom and dad a man sometimes watched him at night, standing at the foot of his bed, smiling. When they asked him to tell him what he looked like, all he ever said was he was tall, he smiled, and wore a green hat.
My brother told my parents about this, and my dad just turned white in the face according to my mom. My dad remembered his father pretty well having been 9 when he passed away, and the first thing he recollected was that his father had always worn a green baseball cap when he drove a fuel truck at work, and always had it on when working around the house. Worth had never been told anything at all about his great grandfather that died 55 or so years ealier, certainly nothing about a hat.
That's all the "proof" I need.
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Doesn't explain very clear footsteps less than a yard from several people....
No it does not. However, there are many unexplainable experiences/phenomenon, but that doesn't mean they're the ghosts of dead people. It's just that we've not figured out what's causing them yet. Just like thunder and lightning is no longer Thor getting snippy with his hammer.
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No it does not. However, there are many unexplainable experiences/phenomenon, but that doesn't mean they're the ghosts of dead people. It's just that we've not figured out what's causing them yet.
But I thought based on this
Sorry guys... Geomagnetic fields + sensitive temporal lobe = ghosts.
you had already figured it out!
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Someone PM'ed me a few days back with a message of a similar experience as my own. He's gave me permission to paste it here. Very interesting short read.
Lynx/Steve,
Read your thread with much interest. I had a similair experience back in November 1998 the day after I had my kidney removed. The doctors were pumping too many liquids into my body (blood, anitbiotics, TPN, etc.) for my system to handle, and my lungs filled with fluid and I "died" for awhile. My mom was sitting with me at the time, and said my last words were "my lungs are gurgling".
In a nutshell, I went to the "light" (in upper corner of the room), felt and undescribable feeling of peace which kept increasing the closer I got to the end of the "tunnel." As I got closer to the end, I was able to recognize people that I knew that had passed away before me. Just as I got to the end and was about to leave the tunnel and enter the "place", i had a brief sensation of reversing direction, then no memories at all until I came to in the ICU a week or so later.
Like on of your other posters stated, my doc tried to tell me that it was my body shutting down, etc., until I related to him things that were happening in and around my room during the time I was "gone."
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This is an interesting thread. I’m not sure if I believe there is something on the other side or not. My sister however, has no doubt. She is an intensive care nurse. A couple of years ago, she was caring for an elderly woman who was dying from something. My sister really looked after this person, more so then just checking her vitals. My sister (when she’d get a free moment) would stop in to just talk to this patient and they would spend a good deal of time talking about my sisters dogs.
One night after her shift, my sister had a dream of this patient telling her to wake up, that one of her dogs needed help. She woke up and her pitbull had gotten tangled up in the bedsheets somehow and was being strangled. The pitbull was basically dead, but my sister did CPR and mouth to snoot resuscitation and saved it. You probably already know where this is going. When my sister got to the hospital the next day for her shift, the patient had died during the night shift.
She also swears that my grandfather paid her a visit right after he died and kissed her goodbye while she was in bed (day before the funeral). She was fairly young (six) and wasn’t at the funeral. But when she was asked about it, she described the suit and tie he was wearing which matched what he was wearing at the funeral home.
Is there something on the other side? I don’t know. I personally just as soon not find out. I plan on living forever. So far so good.
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you had already figured it out!
I can't take all the credit for that. There is this guy up in Ontario that's been working on it for 15 years and is able to produce ghosts...
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I'd like a link to this please. The reason being I'm open minded about it all but I have to say those in the medical practise are taught to be self assertive. They do, after all, have to make some "fine line" judgement calls. I'm not saying their wrong just that they can be over bearing with their assertions.
As you can asscertain I'm a believer of the after life but would like to know how "medicine" can messure what some of us would perceive as the soul or spirit... of ones self being.
I'm not down with the supernatural. No ghosts, no gods, etc. I think there's an explanation for everything that can show real world results and be repeatedly tested. I think we're marching towards that, but unfortunately there's no real funding for it. It's not considered something import from a medicinal perspective. It has to feed off the spare time of what's considered more important in brain activity detection and MRI advances.. the more important stuff being viewed as direct medicinal and clinical applications to prevent people from even getting near the NDE to begin with.
There's a lot of work on the subject since the mid 70s. In the 80s it was DMT. A guy proved you could trigger an NDE in some people with a dose, and get many others to experience symptoms from a "classical NDE". DMT is produced in your body by the pineal gland. Various, peer-reviewed journals have published studies of the experiences. A prominent feature of that is that they are distinctly cultural. If you're from an industrialized, Western country your experience will likely be Christian. If you're a Indian hindu, you'll likely see Yamraj. It's a construct of your culture, not necessarily supernatural.
The most recent theory to carry significant interest is Birk Engmann's work. It's about how the Sensory Autonomic System takes over while your brain is short circuiting from lack of blood flow once you've hit the clinically dead state. A particularly interesting aspect of this is that similar things to an NDE can be made to happen in computer neural networks by massively killing off neurons.
Engmann, Birk: Near- death Experiences: A review on the thesis of pathoclisis, neurotransmitter abnormalities, and psychological aspects. MMW-Fortschr.Med.Nr.51-52/2008(150.Jg.)p.42-43. PMID: 19156957
"Virtual Input Phenomena" Within the Death of a Simple Pattern Associator, Neural Networks, 8(1), 55–65
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/keith_augustine/HNDEs.html (Hallucinatory Near-Death Experiences (2003) (Updated 2008))
Lots of peer-reviewed works referenced at the bottom of that link.
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My question would be "how do all the medical/scientific" explanations account for perfectly fit, healthy living people seeing apparitions/ghosts? I don't think my nephew cares about what kind of NDE's you can simulate with whatever drugs, all he knows is the man in the green hat used to smile at him during the night.
And I heard the footsteps, as did both my brothers, mom and dad. Whether you or anyone else disbelieve or not means zero to me - I know what I know from what I've seen, heard, and felt. I'm sure the others who have had such experiences feel similarly.
:aok
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My question would be "how do all the medical/scientific" explanations account for perfectly fit, healthy living people seeing apparitions/ghosts? I don't think my nephew cares about what kind of NDE's you can simulate with whatever drugs, all he knows is the man in the green hat used to smile at him during the night.
And I heard the footsteps, as did both my brothers, mom and dad. Whether you or anyone else disbelieve or not means zero to me - I know what I know from what I've seen, heard, and felt. I'm sure the others who have had such experiences feel similarly.
:aok
Pretty simple. Anybody can hallucinate. "Vids or it didn't happen" :neener:
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lol, OK. (http://www.roadraceautox.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif) :)
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Some of these posts are downright spooky. :bolt:
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good write up Lynx!!
I think you were hallucinating from the pain meds.
and yes I do believe in an "after life" but that is just it, its after life, you were still alive so you did not see the "afterlife"
but trust me you will we all will, whether we want to believe it or not.
I have been on pain meds and hallucinated me teeth off, not like an "acid trip' but real Hallucinations similar to what you speak of just different, saw people that were dead and crazy crap that I thought was real.
your writing is very good BTW :aok
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No it does not. However, there are many unexplainable experiences/phenomenon, but that doesn't mean they're the ghosts of dead people. It's just that we've not figured out what's causing them yet. Just like thunder and lightning is no longer Thor getting snippy with his hammer.
You mean Thor impersonating a slow walking person without shoes less than 2 feet away from several people's ears.
I was un-religious back then. That period spoiled it for me as well as so many other things that happened later. Can post a few.
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I'm not down with the supernatural. No ghosts, no gods, etc. I think there's an explanation for everything that can show real world results and be repeatedly tested. I think we're marching towards that, but unfortunately there's no real funding for it. It's not considered something import from a medicinal perspective. It has to feed off the spare time of what's considered more important in brain activity detection and MRI advances.. the more important stuff being viewed as direct medicinal and clinical applications to prevent people from even getting near the NDE to begin with.
There's a lot of work on the subject since the mid 70s. In the 80s it was DMT. A guy proved you could trigger an NDE in some people with a dose, and get many others to experience symptoms from a "classical NDE". DMT is produced in your body by the pineal gland. Various, peer-reviewed journals have published studies of the experiences. A prominent feature of that is that they are distinctly cultural. If you're from an industrialized, Western country your experience will likely be Christian. If you're a Indian hindu, you'll likely see Yamraj. It's a construct of your culture, not necessarily supernatural.
The most recent theory to carry significant interest is Birk Engmann's work. It's about how the Sensory Autonomic System takes over while your brain is short circuiting from lack of blood flow once you've hit the clinically dead state. A particularly interesting aspect of this is that similar things to an NDE can be made to happen in computer neural networks by massively killing off neurons.
Engmann, Birk: Near- death Experiences: A review on the thesis of pathoclisis, neurotransmitter abnormalities, and psychological aspects. MMW-Fortschr.Med.Nr.51-52/2008(150.Jg.)p.42-43. PMID: 19156957
"Virtual Input Phenomena" Within the Death of a Simple Pattern Associator, Neural Networks, 8(1), 55–65
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/keith_augustine/HNDEs.html (Hallucinatory Near-Death Experiences (2003) (Updated 2008))
Lots of peer-reviewed works referenced at the bottom of that link.
There is some interesting stuff in the link but I don't set any importance to what a westerner sees as opposed to an Asian or a cargo cultist. Surely their experience would have facets that are known to them. It would be odd if a western saw a jungle terrain or Vishnu. The part that intrigues me but didn't happen in my experience is the tunnel effect being a westerners thing. Whys that? We don't have a cultural or religious disposition for the tunnel of light.
Also some of the collection of NDE stories were mixed up with frightening experiences. Where the subject wasn't or needed resuscitating. There were also some cherry picked stories in there seemingly to prove a point. As a motorcyclist I've experienced many near misses and a few hits :frown: Twice had the sensation of the world going in slow motion. I've put that down to the brain working double quick time to give you the best survival option to take....strange thing. That kind of thing isn't a Near Death Experience. It's darn scary for sure but it's not laying there with your heart and resporation stopped.
There most defiantly is food for thought in your link and thanks for posting but I'll stick with my belief for now. Medicine is a great thing but they still know so very little. When we think of ourselves many of us think of the soul or the spirit. The body being it's receptacle. Measuring the receptacle is one thing. Measuring the spirit is another.
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good write up Lynx!!
I think you were hallucinating from the pain meds.
and yes I do believe in an "after life" but that is just it, its after life, you were still alive so you did not see the "afterlife"
but trust me you will we all will, whether we want to believe it or not.
I have been on pain meds and hallucinated me teeth off, not like an "acid trip' but real Hallucinations similar to what you speak of just different, saw people that were dead and crazy crap that I thought was real.
your writing is very good BTW :aok
Thanks for the writing complement. The writing bit was 3/4 of me post. I just chose to write about a very personal experience. As for that experience I am aware of hallucinations from meds and recreational hallucinations. Make way for the mushroom and all that. There's a world of difference from being off your tits and a very lucid experience. As a 12 year old my NDE is, without prompting, a standard type package. Besides if it was pain meds I wouldn't have been in so much pain :D and your right...we'll get there in the end. :salute
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Very nice write up. I must say that I do believe in the "other place". I have experienced the passing shadow for a few months after my grandfather died when I was 10. What really got my believing was a story my mom told me about my aunt back when my parents were dating, and one my aunt told me of my little cousin which happened a little over a year ago.
From what I've been told, when my aunt was younger(mid-teen i think) she used to see ghosts. A few months after my parents started dating, my aunt told my mom that every now and then she could see the "figure" of an old lady following my mom around sort of watching over her. My mom how always believed in ghosts and the such ask my aunt to describe what this old lady looked like. My mom told me that my aunt described her grandmother to almost every detail. Mind you my aunt has never seen my moms grandmother and she had passed away years earlier. Since that day my mom is a firm believer that the spirits, or what ever you want to call them, of your loved ones do watch over you.
Another crazy story was one that my aunt, from the previous story, told me. We were having a family get together for my 18th birthday, June of 2008. My aunt and I were talking about how much we missed my grandfather because something came up that reminded me of him. She then told me how my cousin said that she saw and talked to him. She said that my grandmother was taking care of my cousin a few weeks earlier and that my grandmother heard my cousin taking to someone. So my grandmother walks into my cousin's room and asked who she was talking too, because nobody was in the house but them two. My cousin replied, I was talking to Ayo(i-yo), which was the name I gave out grandfather when I was little because I couldn't pronounce Abuelo(spanish for grandfather). My grandmother had an emotional breakdown and when my aunt asked why she would pretend to talk to Ayo, my cousin swore she wasn't pretending that he really was there. From what I know this wasn't the first time she has seen him.
The craziest part about it though, is that my little cousin has never seen our grandfather other than a handful of pictures. My cousin was born 3 months premature and while that was happening my grandfather was in the same hospital dying from prostate cancer. After my grandfather passed away due to heart failure my baby cousin started showing signs of her health improving. My family believes that my grandfather died so that his grand daughter can take his place on earth, and from the story my aunt told me I believe that my grandfather is my cousin guardian angel of sorts....
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You mean Thor impersonating a slow walking person without shoes less than 2 feet away from several people's ears.
I was un-religious back then. That period spoiled it for me as well as so many other things that happened later. Can post a few.
How do you hear a slow walking person without shoes? How do you identify the sound as a "person". Why do you think it was a ghost instead of say a goblin or a Predator? (though I guess you'd notice the eyes!)
No... That would be silly.
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The floor-boards above my head were less then an inch thick, and while I stand six feet high, it was about a foot from my head to a person right above me. Not only could I guess the weight of a person upstairs, I would know the difference between the shoes my old granny was wearing. Oh, I had years of training, but you'd only need a day or so to get the basics.
Through the floor I could hear the phone, the TV, when the pan was put on the stove, when glasses were washed in the sink, all simple noises.
In short, just imagine. Someone walking on thin boards less than one foot from your head. Cannot be that difficult.
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I'm with angus, we used to have someone who "walked" the upstairs with big loud footsteps. Especially if he was upset about something.
When we first bought the house we tore a lot of stuff out, did extensive remodeling in the kitchen. Lots or rewiring in other rooms. Painting almost everything in the process. After some weeks of this you could almost feel it when you walked in the door. Something in the house was not happy at all about all the mess and construction. To the point that he was somehow causing my wife and me to fight and argue constantly if we were in the house. Walk outside and the high tempers vanished.
So I walked up stairs, and had a bit of a talk with it.
Carpets coming in tommorow, painting is done, kitchen will be finished by this weekend.
Ease up and give us a chance, please. For the next week the house had kind of a waiting hush feel about it.
But as carpeting went in, and the last of the mess was cleaned up things quickly settled into a routine.
However a couple of times a month I would clearly hear footsteps on the floor above. House is a story and a half.
Attic space is finished, however with no heat or cooling up there we always just used it for storage. Only one door leads up there from the living room.
Several times after hearing the footsteps I would rush up the stairs and see nothing.
Eventually he settled into a quiet routine. A big 3 way argument or fight would almost always have him showing his displeasure in some way. He did knock on my daughters basement room door once, like he was asking permission to enter. The next night the TV that was always turned on while she slept, was turned off in the middle of the night. No one else entered the room. Don't think he liked the TV being on for some reason.
I only saw him once, around 2am got up to go to the bathroom, looked out the hall across the living room and saw him silhouetted against the window. Just a dark man shape that I could see through, yet I could see there was a "shadow" there.
After my daughter moved out he went away, we havn't heard the steps on the floor since.
Not sure why he was so protective of her. But that's the way he seemed to be.
He did seem to have a pattern. Starting at the west end of the upstairs. We'd clearly hear him walk one room.
An hour or 2 later we'd hear him in the next room. After midnight our daughter sometimes heard him on the main floor.
Once while 4 of us were having a heated animated discussion in the office he reached through a wall, and a bookcase solidly packed with books to brush my wife's hair.
Needless to say she freaked. I went back upstairs and had another talk about what was "allowed". No more problems.
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The number of people who attribute ghosts or paranormal phenomena to boringly mundane circumstances, even in 2009, is still quite staggering.
Your average staircase is made up several different types of wood, which absorb moisture/thermal energy at different rates and thus expand/contract at markedly different rates. As the temperature decreases during the onset of night time, the relative humidity changes, and the wood starts to contract but at different rates. This quite easily explains creaking noises, not just in staircases but floors, doorframes, ceilings, roof joists etc. You can often get some more significant noises occurring where wood or metals/alloys are hard bolted to plaster/masonry where the coefficient of expansion of the two materials is markedly different.
Many of the more significant sounding bangs/thumps can be easily traced to heating/boiler systems with the odd air bubble trapped in the pipework, settling down to thermal equilibrium, even the cold water pipework feeding the taps, toilet cisterns, etc can make a fair bit of racket if poorly designed or shoddily installed/maintained.
Consider that your average house is made up of many different materials, all of which absorb different types of energy at different rates and expand/contract at different rates for a given amount of energy. It would be far more surprising if the house did not make any noise as it did so.
I live in a old house mostly made from wood... a lot of different types of wood. Come nighttime there are so many "ghosts" around I can't count. The old staircase to the third floor where our bedrooms are is especially active at night.
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House creak is very different from very very VERY clear footsteps. Been living in various houses, mostly wooden for more than 20 years now.
I have heard steps on a concrete floor once, but I was quite young at the time. First time it happened. I woke my brother up so he could hear as well, since we were sure someone was in the living-room, - a guest perhaps. We could hear the steps as well as cloth "brushing" a bit. Trousers that is.
Anyway, we found nothing. The house was empty.
In my "ghostbusting" attempt, I was actually in the staircase itself while the "walking" continued. Now, why would the noise always stop when one looks at the source?????
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Why do you think it was a ghost and not a goblin or a troll? Hell, you could have chosen a number of more interesting mythical creatures, why not be more creative? ;)
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Did I use the word ghost?
It was the "walker", aint that good enough?
Anyway, the Ghosts are supposed to be invisible when they want to. Goblins and trolls not.
Maybbe a shy alien :noid
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Does it not occur to anybody to setup a camera to capture these repeated "walkers" ?
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Did I use the word ghost?
Yes.
Maybbe a shy alien :noid
That would be more believable... though not by much. ;)