Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Simba on November 09, 2009, 08:07:44 PM
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I was just old enough in 1961 to realise that something horrible was happening in Berlin. In 1968, I watched the 'Prague Spring' turn prematurely to winter as Soviet tanks rumbled into the city to supress Dubcek's reforms. All through the 1970s and into the 1980s, the boot of the USSR ground into the faces of decent people who just wanted to have their say.
Then in 1989, the people DID have their say. Thanks largely to the concessions made by a Russian who cared more about those people than his predecessors, the repressive puppet regimes of Eastern Europe were exposed as exactly that. The dissidents of East Germany gathered in Leipzig and Honicke's call on Michael Gorbachev for Soviet assistance to deal with them was met with 'niet'. I watched in wonder as the Berlin Wall began to fall to pick-axes wielded by bold Berliners who'd had enough, and I cheered. With every lump of concrete that hit the ground I felt a load I never realised I carried lift from my shoulders. Now, twenty years on, I still regard that day as one of the happiest I've ever experienced.
Power to the people and here's to freedom - again, cheers!
:cheers:
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He did it to screw up western Germany, they still recovering from reuniting:)
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Do you happen to be a writer Simba? Or a motivational speaker?
Because that was pretty moving... :cry and this is just a forum!
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The Wall was built in Germany because they lost the war.
Don't start wars if you cannot win them.
The Germans got of lightly and they know it.
I feel sorry for people killed in London,Liverpool and the rest of the countries bombed by Germany.
You should be ashamed of yourself "weight lifted of your shoulders, I cheered" appalling.
The Berlin wall coming down represented one thing which was no one wanted communism and you can start a war kill many millions all has been forgiven.
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Just found it on Wiki.
"Glasnost(rus. "пиздешь")
1988 would see Gorbachev's introduction of glasnost.... "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Gorbachev (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Gorbachev)
I don't know what moron typed it in but "пиздешь" means bullcrap, well he was talking lottsa bullcrap from the moment he was elected. :rofl
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Don't start wars if you cannot win them.
mhm
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The Wall was built in Germany because they lost the war.
Don't start wars if you cannot win them.
The Germans got of lightly and they know it.
I feel sorry for people killed in London,Liverpool and the rest of the countries bombed by Germany.
You should be ashamed of yourself "weight lifted of your shoulders, I cheered" appalling.
The Berlin wall coming down represented one thing which was no one wanted communism and you can start a war kill many millions all has been forgiven.
Maybe one day they'll cure moronism.
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Maybe one day they'll cure moronism.
I hope not. Morons make the rest of us look brilliant ;)
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How dare you disrespect those millions who died because of a countries arrogance.
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My grandfather was in two camps Dachau and Buchenwald so no we were not pleased about the Berlin war coming down.
Arrongant one sided perceptions of world events is a shame for you and your friends.
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lol who is disrespecting?
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Zack, there are so many things wrong with your reasoning one could write an essay. But, it's also clear there's no point arguing with you nor is there any point in listing your fallacies, historical errors, and selective omissions.
Suffice to say, I suggest you take a good look at your own attitudes and ask whether it's appropriate to apply your anger and hatred across a group of people as big as an entire country. Ask yourself: what has history taught us about such attitudes? As they say "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."
If it's not obvious enough - that same attitude caused what your grandfather went through.
Anyways, I'm out of here. Once again, Simba - nice post. Zack - if you don't get my point, then you really are blind. No point in further discussion.
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I was just old enough in 1961 to realise that something horrible was happening in Berlin. In 1968, I watched the 'Prague Spring' turn prematurely to winter as Soviet tanks rumbled into the city to supress Dubcek's reforms. All through the 1970s and into the 1980s, the boot of the USSR ground into the faces of decent people who just wanted to have their say.
Then in 1989, the people DID have their say. Thanks largely to the concessions made by a Russian who cared more about those people than his predecessors, the repressive puppet regimes of Eastern Europe were exposed as exactly that. The dissidents of East Germany gathered in Leipzig and Honicke's call on Michael Gorbachev for Soviet assistance to deal with them was met with 'niet'. I watched in wonder as the Berlin Wall began to fall to pick-axes wielded by bold Berliners who'd had enough, and I cheered. With every lump of concrete that hit the ground I felt a load I never realised I carried lift from my shoulders. Now, twenty years on, I still regard that day as one of the happiest I've ever experienced.
Power to the people and here's to freedom - again, cheers!
:cheers:
:aok , sadly younger generations donīt realy know, what this event did to the world, after that the cold war finaly came to an end. We should not forget to mention Hungary (for opening the borders) and Poland (with founding of Solidarność in 1980). These two country made alot possible.
SF
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He did it to screw up western Germany, they still recovering from reuniting:)
Interesing teaser.
I remember the whining from W-Germany from the burden of 14 million people wanting to UPGRADE to the western standard as soon as possible.
IMHO that called for an economical growth, since you basically have an add-on of both area, population (with the same language) and a will to progress.
This was something that Germany was ready to go for war for, so many years back.
This time it was on the house...
"Here ya go, we have a fine population of 14 million, housed in about the same density as W-Germany. Accommodation is so-so, ahemm. Equipment mainly Trabants. The people are generally healthy. The land is good, lots of industrial areals as well as good rural lands. Saxony is in the pool, lot's of the Elbe, and nice lands all the way down to Bavaria. Gut? Ja???"
Nice chunk without a war I'd say :D
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My grandfather was in two camps Dachau and Buchenwald so no we were not pleased about the Berlin war coming down.
Arrongant one sided perceptions of world events is a shame for you and your friends.
Sucks to be you...the generations who came after the 3rd Reich wanted no part of either the Nazi regime or the Soviets...you should jump off that turnip truck and face human history.
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I would like to use this opportunity to thank David Hasselhof for tearing down The Wall and bringing freedom to Eastern Germany! :rock
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE4Ur5rRMAg
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The Wall was built in Germany because they lost the war.
Don't start wars if you cannot win them.
The Germans got of lightly and they know it.
I feel sorry for people killed in London,Liverpool and the rest of the countries bombed by Germany.
You should be ashamed of yourself "weight lifted of your shoulders, I cheered" appalling.
The Berlin wall coming down represented one thing which was no one wanted communism and you can start a war kill many millions all has been forgiven.
How shameful... :furious
People stuck in a communist island (most of whom weren't part of the generation involved in the war by the time the wall came down) surrounded by the free world and wanting to be part of it..........
The atrocity of it..............
And to think. This type of mind-set is how these things start.
If I was your grandfather, I'd be more ashamed of you than my captors.
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Let's ignore the troll and stay focused on the anniversary. I was in 6th grade when the wall came down and remember the event well. It's a credit to the USA, UK, and France that they never evacuated West Berlin to leave it to the Soviets. However, not only the East Germans, but also the Czechs, Slovaks, Hungarians, Poles, Romanians and many others also gained freedom in 1989 and 1990.
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However, not only the East Germans, but also the Czechs, Slovaks, Hungarians, Poles, Romanians and many others also gained freedom in 1989 and 1990.
. We should not forget to mention Hungary (for opening the borders) and Poland (with founding of Solidarność in 1980). These two country made alot possible.
It all started in Poland in 1980. The workers in Gdańsk and the Solidarność paved the way for what was happing all over eastern Europe in 1989 :salute
The "Round Tables" that were instrumental to the peacful transition appeared in Poland for the first time too.
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I was just old enough in 1961 to realise that something horrible was happening in Berlin. In 1968, I watched the 'Prague Spring' turn prematurely to winter as Soviet tanks rumbled into the city to supress Dubcek's reforms. All through the 1970s and into the 1980s, the boot of the USSR ground into the faces of decent people who just wanted to have their say.
Then in 1989, the people DID have their say. Thanks largely to the concessions made by a Russian who cared more about those people than his predecessors, the repressive puppet regimes of Eastern Europe were exposed as exactly that. The dissidents of East Germany gathered in Leipzig and Honicke's call on Michael Gorbachev for Soviet assistance to deal with them was met with 'niet'. I watched in wonder as the Berlin Wall began to fall to pick-axes wielded by bold Berliners who'd had enough, and I cheered. With every lump of concrete that hit the ground I felt a load I never realised I carried lift from my shoulders. Now, twenty years on, I still regard that day as one of the happiest I've ever experienced.
Power to the people and here's to freedom - again, cheers!
:cheers:
the East German government announced on November 9, 1989, after several weeks of civil unrest, that all GDR citizens could visit West Germany and West Berlin.
i was serving in germany at the time, i felt great accomplishment in the fact that we did this, we stood that fence, we held our ground, we made this happen!
it had nothing to do with, the old germany, it had everything to do with pushing the soviets out!
i also remember the german banks, the lines around the corners, for the east germans to get there free 100 marks that had been promised them if they made it to the other side, and some of the odd remarks about how they would destroy the economy of west germany, it was a funny thing, the change that they all wanted, and yet some were still afraid!
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I was just old enough in 1961 to realise that something horrible was happening in Berlin. In 1968, I watched the 'Prague Spring' turn prematurely to winter as Soviet tanks rumbled into the city to supress Dubcek's reforms. All through the 1970s and into the 1980s, the boot of the USSR ground into the faces of decent people who just wanted to have their say.
Then in 1989, the people DID have their say. Thanks largely to the concessions made by a Russian who cared more about those people than his predecessors, the repressive puppet regimes of Eastern Europe were exposed as exactly that. The dissidents of East Germany gathered in Leipzig and Honicke's call on Michael Gorbachev for Soviet assistance to deal with them was met with 'niet'. I watched in wonder as the Berlin Wall began to fall to pick-axes wielded by bold Berliners who'd had enough, and I cheered. With every lump of concrete that hit the ground I felt a load I never realised I carried lift from my shoulders. Now, twenty years on, I still regard that day as one of the happiest I've ever experienced.
Power to the people and here's to freedom - again, cheers!
:cheers:
Thanks to Ronald Reagan.
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Thanks to Ronald Reagan.
absolutely! :salute
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My Brother had to deport a guy to Bulgaria about 10 years ago [hes an I.C.E. agent] and when he and his partner were there they ate free at all the restaurants they were at when they found out they were American. He said they all praised Reagan for ending the Cold War and freeing them.
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My grandfather was in two camps Dachau and Buchenwald so no we were not pleased about the Berlin war coming down.
Arrongant one sided perceptions of world events is a shame for you and your friends.
I dont get you. Your saying you wanted all of Eastern Europe to suffer under communism because your Grandfather went to a few Z-camps during WW-ll ?
Your probably to young to even remember Soviet communism. Well I remember it like yesterday and was in Europe/NATO under arms in the '70s, "the scariest of cold war times", and when that wall came down I cheered until I couldnt cheer no more. I guess maybe you forget West Germany, as in "Germans", supplied the bulk of NATOs manpower needs. The NATO that defeated the Soviets was made up of many western European Democracies. I was in Bulgaria back in '78 for a brief stopover. Boy what a craphole thanks to the commies. Im talking cardboard shoes, breadlines, secret police. The whole nest.
Wow! Its been almost 20 years hasnt it since the wall fell? long enough for a generation of kiddies who know no better to grow up and talk goofy in a Internet forum.
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The Wall was built in Germany because they lost the war.
Don't start wars if you cannot win them.
The Germans got of lightly and they know it.
I feel sorry for people killed in London,Liverpool and the rest of the countries bombed by Germany.
You should be ashamed of yourself "weight lifted of your shoulders, I cheered" appalling.
The Berlin wall coming down represented one thing which was no one wanted communism and you can start a war kill many millions all has been forgiven.
You Sir, are a bit of a fool!
Thanks to Ronald Reagan.
More thanks should go to Gorbachev who spent years and years making the fall come about.
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Wow! Its been almost 20 years hasnt it since the wall fell? long enough for a generation of kiddies who know no better to grow up and talk goofy in a Internet forum.
I bet I could find someone from your generation who talks just as goofy... and you can be sure that bubi and enker understand the significance of the Wall.
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Zack, there are so many things wrong with your reasoning one could write an essay. But, it's also clear there's no point arguing with you nor is there any point in listing your fallacies, historical errors, and selective omissions.
Suffice to say, I suggest you take a good look at your own attitudes and ask whether it's appropriate to apply your anger and hatred across a group of people as big as an entire country. Ask yourself: what has history taught us about such attitudes? As they say "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."
If it's not obvious enough - that same attitude caused what your grandfather went through.
Anyways, I'm out of here. Once again, Simba - nice post. Zack - if you don't get my point, then you really are blind. No point in further discussion.
Eloquently and factually stated.
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I think Zack needs to take a trip to the library.
You know that place that has all those.. Oh what the hell are they called again? You know. Those bundles of paper with writing all over them.
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I still can't understand how people can continue to consider a race, or a nationality of people, all of it's demographics, generations and factions, as a single entity, meant to be treated and punished as such. :headscratch:
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I still can't understand how people can continue to consider a race, or a nationality of people, all of it's demographics, generations and factions, as a single entity, meant to be treated and punished as such. :headscratch:
The answer? Ignorance.
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......The NATO that defeated the Soviets was made up of many western European Democracies. I was in Bulgaria back in '78 for a brief stopover.......
Well technically NATO didn't defeat Soviets, it was Gorbachev leadership that led to dissolution of Soviet Empire. It might've happened in near future but he certainly sped up the process.
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Quote from: Rich46yo on Today at 04:10:22 PM
......The NATO that defeated the Soviets was made up of many western European Democracies. I was in Bulgaria back in '78 for a brief stopover.......
Well technically NATO didn't defeat Soviets, it was Gorbachev leadership that led to dissolution of Soviet Empire. It might've happened in near future but he certainly sped up the process.
Without Ronald Reagan's leadership in the west.... would have the USSR fallen? I don't Gorbachev got up one day and said " OH My God! We are the Bad guys!" Odds are it was more along the lines of.... He's looking out the window at Moscow, Thinking that "SOB" in the White House is going to make this all a glass parking lot someday if I don't do something.
Cavalry
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...and the truth is somewhere in the middle. ;)
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I think that the most obvious answer is that after 50+ years of dealing with it that people in Eastern Europe and the USSR finally came to accept that Communism is one of the most oppressive and tyrannical systems imposed on modern society, bringing about peaceful (and not so peaceful) revolution throughout Europe. Reading about the atrocities and living conditions under Stalin and other Soviet regimes you get the idea that it would have been better to live under the Tsars.
I think it's kind of ironic that in mainstream America's seeming obsession with discrediting and attacking anything approaching any form of Socialism that this explanation is almost never brought up; it's always Ronald Reagan.
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I bet I could find someone from your generation who talks just as goofy... and you can be sure that bubi and enker understand the significance of the Wall.
We have a winner!
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Reading about the atrocities and living conditions under Stalin and other Soviet regimes you get the idea that it would have been better to live under the Tsars.
Reading Dostoyevsky I'm always a bit wistful about the lost opportunity to spend vast sums of money on wild parties, vodka and caviar even though my rent was due a month ago. :D
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Well technically NATO didn't defeat Soviets, it was Gorbachev leadership that led to dissolution of Soviet Empire. It might've happened in near future but he certainly sped up the process.
I'm sure that it had more to do with the fact that the US military was well prepared to take on the Soviets and they had too hard of a time trying to keep up. They were a third world nation with a first world military at the time the wall came down. They couldn't keep up and Gorbachev knew it.
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I'm sure that it had more to do with the fact that the US military was well prepared to take on the Soviets and they had too hard of a time trying to keep up. They were a third world nation with a first world military at the time the wall came down. They couldn't keep up and Gorbachev knew it.
Mkay, Gorbachev new that USSR couldn't keep up with USA so he deliberately destroyed his own country? You not making much sence.
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Weird coincidence
When Gorbachev/Obama took over.
Years of war with Afghanistan.
Economy in poor shape.
Reforms in country.
Attempted to make friends all over the globe.
Nobel prize..... :noid
"Gorbachev: Obama Needs to Start US Perestroika "
http://www.javno.com/en-world/gorbachev--obama-needs-to-start-us-perestroika_200512 (http://www.javno.com/en-world/gorbachev--obama-needs-to-start-us-perestroika_200512)
Apparently ruining one country wasn't enough for him.
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Did anyone mention the faltering USSR economy before the fall?
A faltering economy when there are countries and more countries being exploited,,,,well that's bad.
Now, the USA today has the same problem. Not quite paralell though, since the consumers have really been having an orgy compared to what the subjects of the Soviet empire generally had at the time.
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Without Ronald Reagan's leadership in the west.... would have the USSR fallen? I don't Gorbachev got up one day and said " OH My God! We are the Bad guys!" Odds are it was more along the lines of.... He's looking out the window at Moscow, Thinking that "SOB" in the White House is going to make this all a glass parking lot someday if I don't do something.
Cavalry
Yes.
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Mkay, Gorbachev new that USSR couldn't keep up with USA so he deliberately destroyed his own country? You not making much sence.
Communism is what destroyed his country. I think that makes more *sense*. :aok
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Communism is what destroyed his country. I think that makes more *sense*. :aok
You're wrong.
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You're wrong.
Thank you, i thought i was alone on this one
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It always amazes me when folk come into a topic with the belief that they are the knowledgeable authority and then proceed to prove to the rest of us what ignorant fools they actually are without ever realising it themselves.
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It always amazes me when folk come into a topic with the belief that they are the knowledgeable authority and then proceed to prove to the rest of us what ignorant fools they actually are without ever realising it themselves.
I think you overreacting, may be even sound like one:)