Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Kazaa on November 18, 2009, 07:46:47 AM

Title: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: Kazaa on November 18, 2009, 07:46:47 AM: I just installed my new Sapphire ATI 5850 and I thought some of you guys who might be looking to buy a new graphics card would appreciate a very basic AH2 benchmark. Frames per second are displayed in the top left corner.

All in all I'm very pleased, it destroys my Evga 8800GTX. (the one which conked out on me the other day)

Core I7 system

V-sync = off
Resolution = 1680x1050
AA = Maxed
Texture size = 1024
High resolution texture pack = Yes

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/Luke_831/1.jpg)

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/Luke_831/3.jpg)

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/Luke_831/aceshigh2009-11-1813-19-54-53.jpg)

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/Luke_831/aceshigh2009-11-1813-17-02-23.jpg)

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/Luke_831/2-1.jpg)

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/Luke_831/aceshigh2009-11-1813-17-42-07.jpg)

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/Luke_831/aceshigh2009-11-1813-18-49-65.jpg)

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/Luke_831/aceshigh2009-11-1813-19-54-53.jpg)
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: Getback on November 18, 2009, 10:50:15 AM: Isn't your fps limited by your monitors refresh rate?
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: Masherbrum on November 18, 2009, 10:52:19 AM: Quote from: Getback on November 18, 2009, 10:50:15 AM
Isn't your fps limited by your monitors refresh rate?

Yes, or you can turn V-Sync off.
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: Chalenge on November 18, 2009, 11:03:04 AM: Vsync off is never a good idea.
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: Masherbrum on November 18, 2009, 11:05:14 AM: Quote from: Chalenge on November 18, 2009, 11:03:04 AM
Vsync off is never a good idea.

You're jumping to conclusions, I merely answered his question correctly. I never said it was a good idea, however you can "have 200FPS" show up on your screen, just like my "inadequate 8800GTS KO" can achieve.
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: Kazaa on November 18, 2009, 11:34:36 AM: I left Vsync off for testing, just showing how much head room there is.
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: Chalenge on November 18, 2009, 11:53:42 AM: Quote from: Masherbrum on November 18, 2009, 11:05:14 AM
You're jumping to conclusions, I merely answered his question correctly. I never said it was a good idea, however you can "have 200FPS" show up on your screen, just like my "inadequate 8800GTS KO" can achieve.

No its you that are jumping to conclusions. Im just pointing out reality and I didnt even quote you.

Vsync off for testing is not a legitimate test.
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on November 18, 2009, 12:08:07 PM: Quote from: Chalenge on November 18, 2009, 11:53:42 AM
No its you that are jumping to conclusions. Im just pointing out reality and I didnt even quote you.

Vsync off for testing is not a legitimate test.

And why not? What will your test show if you're limited to 60fps? There would be zero difference between a card that can barely peg 60fps and a card that can do 6000fps.
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: Chalenge on November 18, 2009, 12:28:11 PM: Because the number you see in the corner of the screen is NOT what the hardware is actually delivering but only what the card is delivering in the back buffer. Several of the screens your video card is drawing to the back buffer will never make it to the screen as they are overwritten... for instance frame 1 is delivered to back buffer and drawn to screen but the back buffer has already been updated to frame 3 when the screen draws its second frame... only vsync on gives you anything relevant.

And then you get to online play in AH... with vsync off you get rubber bullets... bad bad stuff.
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: Kazaa on November 18, 2009, 12:38:47 PM: I've never had "rubber bullets" when playing online. :D

Well I'm getting solid 60FPS with the vsync on which matches my monitors refresh rate.
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on November 18, 2009, 12:44:00 PM: Quote from: Chalenge on November 18, 2009, 12:28:11 PM
Because the number you see in the corner of the screen is NOT what the hardware is actually delivering but only what the card is delivering in the back buffer. Several of the screens your video card is drawing to the back buffer will never make it to the screen as they are overwritten... for instance frame 1 is delivered to back buffer and drawn to screen but the back buffer has already been updated to frame 3 when the screen draws its second frame... only vsync on gives you anything relevant.

And then you get to online play in AH... with vsync off you get rubber bullets... bad bad stuff.

That makes no difference chalenge the performance difference is shown regardless of the fact.
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: Skuzzy on November 18, 2009, 12:59:28 PM: Testing frame rate with vsync off is legitimate. Each frame update means a graphic loop was completed in the game's graphic engine.

Yes, data is lost if you try and play with vsync off, and it can cause 'rubber bullets' due to you not seeing what the game is seeing.

For test purposes, it is fine. That is why we placed the control option in the Video Settings and also warned it is for test purposes only.
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: Masherbrum on November 18, 2009, 01:11:49 PM: Quote from: Skuzzy on November 18, 2009, 12:59:28 PM
Testing frame rate with vsync off is legitimate. Each frame update means a graphic loop was completed in the game's graphic engine.

Yes, data is lost if you try and play with vsync off, and it can cause 'rubber bullets' due to you not seeing what the game is seeing.

For test purposes, it is fine. That is why we placed the control option in the Video Settings and also warned it is for test purposes only.

Absolutely.
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: Chalenge on November 18, 2009, 01:24:15 PM: And yet it doesnt prove anything! You wont be running with it off in the game so what kind of test is it? I call that illegitimate. :old:
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: gyrene81 on November 18, 2009, 01:25:59 PM: So...if i buy a 120Hz monitor, will I get 120fps with vsync on?
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: bustr on November 18, 2009, 02:03:46 PM: Yes, if you can get your desktop refresh rate to run at 120Hz.

In the game, not knowing your PC, you will probably vary. I used to have a Viewsonic 20" CRT desktop at 120Hz. FPS in game 58-120 depending on circumstances. I was also running an older PC with AGP4, vsync ON. 20inch CRT is like putting a mini oven on your desk. I have a 22" LCD locked at 60 in game now. Much better and cooler........
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: Krusty on November 18, 2009, 02:24:29 PM: Okay... so the speed limit is 50mph, meaning there's no difference between a 1950 caddy vs a 2009 Mustang GT, right?

I mean, they can only both legally go to 50mph, right?

(unless you run a real test on a track, in which case the performance and power and handling of the Mustang come through obvious for everyone to see)

But that's just an illegitimate test, right? Means there's no difference, right?

:O

[Edit: typo fix Edit2: typo missed!]
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: Spikes on November 18, 2009, 02:51:41 PM: Hopefully I can achieve the same relative results with my HD 5770.
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: Dragon on November 18, 2009, 02:53:26 PM: Quote from: Krusty on November 18, 2009, 02:24:29 PM
Okay... so the speed limit is 50mph, meaning there's no difference between a 1950 caddy vs a 20009 Mustang GT, right?

I mean, they can only both legally go to 50mph, right?

(unless you run a real test on a track, in which case the performance and power and handling of the Mustang come through obvious for everyone to see)

But that's just an illegitimate test, right? Means there's no difference, right?

:O

[Edit: typo fix]

Check again
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: Skuzzy on November 18, 2009, 03:00:07 PM: Chalenge, it is perfectly legitimate if you want to know how much performance room you have left as you tweak settings for the game.

If you tweak the settings offline and end up at 70FPS, there is a really good chance your performance will drop like a rock when you get online in some action. Whereas, if you tweak the settings and the performance drops to 140FPS offline, there is a good chance the game will be pretty smooth once you get online and into some action.

If you tried testing with vsync on, you would not know about the overhead you have available.

In other words, it really only means something in the context of your computer. It is not something that useful to compare to other computers.
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: Krusty on November 18, 2009, 03:04:36 PM: Quote from: Dragon on November 18, 2009, 02:53:26 PM

Check again

Er... I dunno what you mean..... :noid
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: bustr on November 18, 2009, 03:21:54 PM: You will know that you can bench press 250lbs 10 times because you benched 375lbs 3 times, but know one else will know during the game. They just won't like how hard you can hit them.
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: gyrene81 on November 18, 2009, 03:25:23 PM: Geez...I'd be too tired after the 375 lbs reps to even look at the 250 lbs...just hand me a beer.
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: Pongo on November 18, 2009, 04:08:42 PM: Of course its a valid and interesting test.
Because a real furball will be alot more graphically intensive then the examples used here, So its nice to know you have head room for them, and the guy that runs this same test with vsync off and gets only 55fps, will not have room for the worst case with the high detail levels and long view ranges.
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: Chalenge on November 18, 2009, 04:26:43 PM: I can see what you are saying Skuzzy but it doesnt make sense that if the cap is 60 that seeing two and three times that number will ever mean anything. I think I will run a similar test tonight and see what happens but I still think the cap is the cap.
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: batch on November 18, 2009, 04:35:10 PM: Quote from: Pongo on November 18, 2009, 04:08:42 PM
Of course its a valid and interesting test.
Because a real furball will be alot more graphically intensive then the examples used here, So its nice to know you have head room for them, and the guy that runs this same test with vsync off and gets only 55fps, will not have room for the worst case with the high detail levels and long view ranges.

55fps is a bad example....... because its below the monitors refresh rate......... 55fps would be the same vsync on or off would make no difference...... not arguing the sentiment....... just sayin 55 is a bad number to use as example :)
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: eagl on November 18, 2009, 05:26:47 PM: Quote from: Skuzzy on November 18, 2009, 03:00:07 PM
In other words, it really only means something in the context of your computer. It is not something that useful to compare to other computers.

Unless you're comparing the size of your e-noodle, in which case it may arguably be the only comparison that matters :)
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: TheZohan on November 18, 2009, 06:17:22 PM: nice card!! *bows down*
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: Knite on November 19, 2009, 10:14:00 AM: Kazaa,

I notice the shadow map is set at 4096. Does that card run at 8192 Shadow Map or is that too much for the card?
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: Kazaa on November 19, 2009, 10:37:19 AM: 8000 shadowing will destroy my FPS.

4000 is perfectly fine for FPS and gives fantastic detail. I feel that 8000 would destroy every card currently out!
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: Skuzzy on November 19, 2009, 11:20:48 AM: 4096 = 128MB of video RAM being dedicated to one texture. Even with 512MB of dedicated video RAM, you could run the video card out of RAM with this setting.

8192 = 512MB of video RAM being dedicated to one texture. A video card would have to have 1GB of dedicated video RAM to run this setting, and even then it will get close to running out of video RAM.
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: Knite on November 19, 2009, 03:27:27 PM: Awesome info Skuzzy, thanks. I never figured out the calculations on the VRAM for the different shadow maps. Thanks for the info!
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: zack1234 on November 21, 2009, 09:05:11 AM: Whats a good framerate to have?
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: batch on November 21, 2009, 09:35:46 AM: Quote from: zack1234 on November 21, 2009, 09:05:11 AM
Whats a good framerate to have?

a good framerate to have is something higher than the lowest acceptable for your personal tastes..... in other words if your comfortable flying with a framerate of 45 then a good framerate to have would be higher than 45

an excellent framerate would be equal to (with vsync on) or higher than (with vsync off) the refresh rate of your monitor which in most cases is 60
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: eagl on November 21, 2009, 09:58:39 AM: Quote from: zack1234 on November 21, 2009, 09:05:11 AM
Whats a good framerate to have?

I don't know if the current AH version looks any different, but in the past I always felt as if the game was stuttering if framerates ever dropped below 45ish. If you fly around and most of the time framerates are pegged at your monitor's refresh rate (60 for me), then they might not sag too far when you get into a fight. And that's the most important for gameplay, how far the framerate sags in a fight. Sagging below 30 is unacceptable in my opinion, and below 45 it felt like the teeny tiny stuttering would affect how well I could aim and maneuver against the other players. Some people are happy with FPS sagging to 20 occasionally, but for me anything below 30 meant I would immediately go to the settings menu and turn down some options, and I'd aim for 45 fps or higher for almost all of the time even in fights.

If I couldn't run framerates that high, then I'd save my pennies and buy an upgrade of some sort. AH doesn't change hardware requirements all that often and they've left in lots of graphics options you can turn down or off, so even lower end hardware can still get you pretty high framerates. You just lose some of the graphics eye candy, that's all. But I figure if you're playing the game just for the eye candy, there are lots of boxed games that look better than AH so you can fly them to get the absolute prettiest graphics. If you want realistic planes and the AH gameplay though, there isn't any realistic alternative right now.
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: BaldEagl on November 21, 2009, 10:33:42 AM: Oddly enough frame rate and stuttering seem to be dependant on hardware. As an example, on my current machine which is always pegged at my refresh rate (59 fps), a frame rate drop to 45 feels unacceptable, producing some minor stuttering. I can force this to happen by turning on smooth shadows.

On my old Dell machine which typically runs around 25-35 fps, even a dip to 15 fps leaves the game smooth and playable with no obvious stuttering.

I'm at a loss to explain this, but I've tested them side by side on numerous occasions and the old Dell remains smooth at low fps while the new machine does not.
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: Pudgie on November 21, 2009, 05:47:50 PM: Quote from: Skuzzy on November 19, 2009, 11:20:48 AM
4096 = 128MB of video RAM being dedicated to one texture. Even with 512MB of dedicated video RAM, you could run the video card out of RAM with this setting.

8192 = 512MB of video RAM being dedicated to one texture. A video card would have to have 1GB of dedicated video RAM to run this setting, and even then it will get close to running out of video RAM.

Thanks Skuzzy!

That explains why my lil 'ole GTX 260 stutters a little when I had the 8192 enabled & ran smooth when I had the 4096 enabled.
If the 8192 is your cup o tea, here's your reason to get a vid card w/ at least 1 Gb of VRAM on it...................only if you were running it on a 64-bit OS that is.

Nice shots of that Radeon, Kazaa!

:aok
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: Noir on November 22, 2009, 01:40:08 AM: the 5770 is a bit short to put the self shadowing on, and I have a decent CPU (Phenom II X4 965).

About stuttering I have noticed something, when I put the slider ground distance to max, I may have a bit of stuttering from time to time, while reducing the slider a few pixels totally fixes it.
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: skribetm on November 23, 2009, 06:11:24 AM: you guys might want to give this tool a whirl,

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,278585.msg3506316.html#msg3506316 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,278585.msg3506316.html#msg3506316)

:aok
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: Kazaa on December 03, 2009, 03:27:13 AM: Tests were done offline using the same settings I first posted.

First entering the city is when FR are the lowest, I guess due to texture loading?

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/Luke_831/4-1.jpg)

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/Luke_831/2-2.jpg)

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/Luke_831/3-1.jpg)

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/Luke_831/5.jpg)
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: Kermit de frog on December 03, 2009, 04:33:07 AM: My frame rates also dropped when first entering the city.
Mine drop to 31 fps, then go back up to 60.
<----7950GT Over Clocked
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: Ruler2 on December 13, 2009, 07:01:08 PM: Kazza, what kind of FRs do you get without any shadows?
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: Spikes on December 13, 2009, 07:16:22 PM: Quote from: Noir on November 22, 2009, 01:40:08 AM
the 5770 is a bit short to put the self shadowing on, and I have a decent CPU (Phenom II X4 965).

About stuttering I have noticed something, when I put the slider ground distance to max, I may have a bit of stuttering from time to time, while reducing the slider a few pixels totally fixes it.
Noir,
I have the 5770 on a C2Q Q9550 and I can run self shadowing fine with max detail on...however I turned shadowing off as it throws off my focus.
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: Bronk on December 13, 2009, 08:57:13 PM: Quote from: Spikes on December 13, 2009, 07:16:22 PM
Noir,
I have the 5770 on a C2Q Q9550 and I can run self shadowing fine with max detail on...however I turned shadowing off as it throws off my focus.
screen shots?
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: Ruler2 on December 13, 2009, 09:48:10 PM: Quote from: Spikes on December 13, 2009, 07:16:22 PM
Noir,
I have the 5770 on a C2Q Q9550 and I can run self shadowing fine with max detail on...however I turned shadowing off as it throws off my focus.

"ooh look at those pretty sha.... SYSTEM:You have failed like a noob and crashed"
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: Tigger29 on December 13, 2009, 11:25:04 PM: Is it me, or do the new cities remind me of 'sim city' graphics? I keep waiting for little 'boxes'... resembling cars... go to driving by in endless loops...
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: Spikes on December 14, 2009, 06:08:50 AM: Quote from: Bronk on December 13, 2009, 08:57:13 PM
screen shots?

Will post some up on Friday when I get back on that comp.
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: Kazaa on December 14, 2009, 08:27:32 AM: Quote from: Ruler2 on December 13, 2009, 07:01:08 PM
Kazza, what kind of FRs do you get without any shadows?

Jesus, I can't remember 100% what my FR is without shadowing.
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: Kazaa on December 14, 2009, 02:43:03 PM: Quote from: Kazaa on December 14, 2009, 08:27:32 AM
Jesus, I can't remember 100% what my FR is without shadowing.

Just taking off the runway, they go from 180-220 without any shadowing on at all.
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: Spikes on December 14, 2009, 02:46:32 PM: Quote from: Kazaa on December 14, 2009, 02:43:03 PM
Just taking off the runway, they go from 180-220 without any shadowing on at all.
Is this w/o Vsync on? I have it on and only get 60 on my new system, what it was capped at with my old one...don't want the rubber bullets syndrome...
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: Kazaa on December 14, 2009, 03:01:16 PM: Quote from: Spikes on December 14, 2009, 02:46:32 PM
Is this w/o Vsync on? I have it on and only get 60 on my new system, what it was capped at with my old one...don't want the rubber bullets syndrome...

Don't forget I'm only taking V-sync off for testing only.
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: Spikes on December 18, 2009, 06:08:09 PM: Quote from: Bronk on December 13, 2009, 08:57:13 PM
screen shots?

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?xnd4d2u2tly
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: Bronk on December 18, 2009, 08:13:37 PM: Quote from: Spikes on December 18, 2009, 06:08:09 PM
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?xnd4d2u2tly
ty
:aok
Title: Re: Sapphire ATI 5850. (very basic AH2 benchmark, pics inside)
Post by: Krusty on December 20, 2009, 02:47:17 PM: Quote from: skribetm on November 23, 2009, 06:11:24 AM
you guys might want to give this tool a whirl,

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,278585.msg3506316.html#msg3506316 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,278585.msg3506316.html#msg3506316)

:aok

Is there one of those for Nvidia? Won't work with my "new" Ge9600 GSO, and I'd be curious what kind of performance bottlenecks I have with this card and this mobo.