Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Simba on November 18, 2009, 11:37:13 AM

Title: Water we can land and take off from - and aircraft to match.
Post by: Simba on November 18, 2009, 11:37:13 AM
As a nautic just old enough to remember the last flight by a Royal Air Force flying boat (Sunderland MR.5, Singapore, 1958), might it be possible to enable flying boats and floatplanes to land and take off from AH2's lovely new water? If so, can I have the Sunderland Mk.V, PBY-5A Catalina, Supermarine Walrus and a SOC-3 Seagull to play with? And a catapult from which to launch the 'Shagbat', please.

 :pray
Title: Re: Water we can land and take off from - and aircraft to match.
Post by: Martyn on November 18, 2009, 11:51:24 AM
They'd be fighter bait and wouldn't be used much - unless they could have several special uses like SAR, strategic recce, weather recce, sub-hunting, etc.
Nice idea though.

Do a search, this idea has been discussed in detail some time back.
Title: Re: Water we can land and take off from - and aircraft to match.
Post by: waystin2 on November 18, 2009, 04:11:38 PM
+1000000000000000 :aok
Title: Re: Water we can land and take off from - and aircraft to match.
Post by: GuyNoir on November 18, 2009, 04:53:50 PM
I think they might work if they act like mobile radar stations... It'd give defenders a reason to keep em alive, and they'd definitely be a target to take out.  Maybe it'd only work a certain distance from airbases...  or maybe it'd light up enemy CVs on the map!   :O :D

You could make sea-borne aircraft do all sorts of stuff...  resupply fleets or PT boats, drop troops for ports, sub-hunting (eventually)... maybe even rescue downed pilots to reclaim a certain percentage of their lost perk points. :)
Title: Re: Water we can land and take off from - and aircraft to match.
Post by: Ghosth on November 18, 2009, 05:05:43 PM
Absolutely, and don't forget Mavis, Emily and Rufe while your at it!

Title: Re: Water we can land and take off from - and aircraft to match.
Post by: Raptor on November 18, 2009, 05:42:10 PM
I think they would add something to the game. Namely Port Defense. This would keep them from being Hangar Queens
Title: Re: Water we can land and take off from - and aircraft to match.
Post by: Simba on November 18, 2009, 09:31:02 PM
Good ideas, Guynoir, you can indeed 'make sea-borne aircraft do all sorts of stuff'. 'Resupplying' Task Groups could be a very useful mission type. Fresh 8" shells, sir?

Or, better still . . .

<imagines a leisurely run ashore in a Walrus to party under the palm trees with dusky maidens, coconuts and rum> :rolleyes:

  
Title: Re: Water we can land and take off from - and aircraft to match.
Post by: phatzo on November 18, 2009, 10:51:38 PM
It would give the Nits and the Bish something to hunt the secret Rook submarines with....Uhoh did I say too much..
 :cheers:
Title: Re: Water we can land and take off from - and aircraft to match.
Post by: GuyNoir on November 19, 2009, 09:42:16 AM
This's kinda crazy, but how about commandos (with dinghies) to go in and take out certain base or town facilities (ack, radar, ord, troops, fuel, SHORE BATTS??)   :rock

These planes might never have 'resupplied' task forces or whatever in real life, but I think HTC could approximate that kinda stuff to get some good gameplay out of it.  Just think about some of the things we do now like dropping ammo out in the field for tanks or dropping exactly 10 troops on a flattened town to take an airfield ...we're already playing with gameplay devices anyway. 

I think things like these seaplane ideas add more of the rock-paper-scissors balanced gameplay that makes for a good game in general and gives people fun stuff to do even if they aren't the red baron incarnate.  :)
Title: Re: Water we can land and take off from - and aircraft to match.
Post by: AKP on November 19, 2009, 10:26:34 AM
Hmmm.... not a bad idea having them available to launch from ports.  But it wouldn't take much to down them in a full blown port assault if fighters are present.  Still not a bad idea. 
Title: Re: Water we can land and take off from - and aircraft to match.
Post by: B4Buster on November 19, 2009, 10:33:14 AM
lighting up enemy CVs on the map would be an aweome idea. Like strats, could these planes have their own invisible "dar circle" and when they fly close enough to a CV it pops up on the map?

Title: Re: Water we can land and take off from - and aircraft to match.
Post by: waystin2 on November 19, 2009, 10:40:05 AM
lighting up enemy CVs on the map would be an aweome idea. Like strats, could these planes have their own invisible "dar circle" and when they fly close enough to a CV it pops up on the map?



I like! :aok
Title: Re: Water we can land and take off from - and aircraft to match.
Post by: Westy on November 19, 2009, 11:07:01 AM
Cool idea and long wished for but...... (always a but...)

Couldn;t use them as resupply or base capture. What would keep "gamers"
from using them as 100+ mph water-skimming "craft" to resupply bases or
put drunks ashore to capture them? They'd be a lot faster than M3s or landing
craft and unlike C47s they can stay REAL low and off the radar without fear of
"crashing" into the ocean for touching it.

 IMO no one will use it to rescue pilots (unless major perks are awarded) and
the current MA fantasy-land setup with the awacs radar and bar indicators
they're not needed for scouting at all.

 The whole gameplay dynamics of the MA would have to be tossed out the
window and something more realistic would have to be in place for them to
be used and enjoyed.  Fun for scenarios though!
Title: Re: Water we can land and take off from - and aircraft to match.
Post by: GuyNoir on November 19, 2009, 12:15:44 PM
What would keep "gamers"
from using them as 100+ mph water-skimming "craft" to resupply bases or
put drunks ashore to capture them? They'd be a lot faster than M3s or landing
craft and unlike C47s they can stay REAL low and off the radar without fear of
"crashing" into the ocean for touching it.

Eh... with the F3 key, C47s can get VERY low, and sea-planes usually can't hit the water without going slow enough to land.  Over the years, there have been many many catastrophic crashes of Catalinas and others from touching the water slightly too fast and buckling gears doors and other parts.  C47s are also faster than Catalinas, and the Cats wouldn't spawn from CVs, so they'd have to fly just as far.  Finally, C47s already land near enemy bases for a stealthy capture anyway, so it's about the same thing as seaboats landing on water and waiting for everything to go down...

Quote from: Westy
and the current MA fantasy-land setup with the awacs radar and bar indicators
they're not needed for scouting at all.

Once, a base's radar goes down, defenders are pretty blind regardless of what the darbar's showing...  Having a seaplane show all of the actual dots within its range would probably be pretty helpful in a support role.  As for fleets, plenty of people ask constantly for CV positions and can be oblivious otherwise, so a Cat would be able to direct friendly fleet fire (from the map dot), and attacking planes would know which direction to head...  It'd add a cat-and-mouse game of AWACS vs hunters.
Title: Re: Water we can land and take off from - and aircraft to match.
Post by: Karnak on November 19, 2009, 12:43:00 PM
They'd be fighter bait and wouldn't be used much - unless they could have several special uses like SAR, strategic recce, weather recce, sub-hunting, etc.
Nice idea though.

Do a search, this idea has been discussed in detail some time back.
Emily wouldn't be fighter bait anymore than a B-17 or B-24 is fighter bait.
Title: Re: Water we can land and take off from - and aircraft to match.
Post by: druski85 on November 19, 2009, 12:50:25 PM
It would give us something to hunt the secret  S.A.P.P. submarines with....Uhoh did I say too much..
 :cheers:

Fixed.  Anti-blender warfare at its finest.
Title: Re: Water we can land and take off from - and aircraft to match.
Post by: Raptor on November 19, 2009, 01:17:39 PM
Having the ability to up an amphibious A6M would be a decent form of port defense (better than nothing once the only VH is taken down).
Emily would be used to attack CVs wondering too close to ports.
Title: Re: Water we can land and take off from - and aircraft to match.
Post by: Simba on November 21, 2009, 05:43:04 PM
"Having the ability to up an amphibious A6M"

The Nakajima-built floatplane version of the A6M2 (codenamed 'Rufe') wasn't an amphibian, it had a single central main float with no wheels and could only operate from water.

Now the ol' Grumman Duck, Goose and Widgeon, they were amphibious, same as the Supermarine Walrus - but you wouldn't have wanted to take on a fighter in any of them.

 :cool:
Title: Re: Water we can land and take off from - and aircraft to match.
Post by: Martyn on November 27, 2009, 07:50:48 AM
Emily wouldn't be fighter bait anymore than a B-17 or B-24 is fighter bait.
...and the Short Sunderland or the N1K1 wouldn't be a pushover either - but these planes were generally slower. Others, like the Catalina, AR-196, Walrus or the (Grumman) Duck could be really useful in real life - especially when flown far away from enemy fighters. Unfortunately one can fly relatively long distances in AH - which means that these planes become impractical in the game, unless we can find a way to make having these guys worthwhile.
Title: Re: Water we can land and take off from - and aircraft to match.
Post by: Templar on December 12, 2009, 04:19:33 AM
+1  :aok
Title: Re: Water we can land and take off from - and aircraft to match.
Post by: Eric122 on February 02, 2010, 01:43:03 PM
+1 and mabe the OS2U Kingfisher
Title: Re: Water we can land and take off from - and aircraft to match.
Post by: MadHatter on February 02, 2010, 01:48:20 PM
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,280952.0.html

there's a post I did about the PBY, it got refined more over the course of the thread. Maybe something like this is what you're looking for?
Title: Re: Water we can land and take off from - and aircraft to match.
Post by: LLogann on February 02, 2010, 02:01:21 PM
What he said, times 10!    :)

+1000000000000000 :aok

Title: Re: Water we can land and take off from - and aircraft to match.
Post by: Karnak on February 02, 2010, 02:09:14 PM
...and the Short Sunderland or the N1K1 wouldn't be a pushover either - but these planes were generally slower. Others, like the Catalina, AR-196, Walrus or the (Grumman) Duck could be really useful in real life - especially when flown far away from enemy fighters. Unfortunately one can fly relatively long distances in AH - which means that these planes become impractical in the game, unless we can find a way to make having these guys worthwhile.

Sunderland and N1K1 would be, in my opinion, pushovers.

H8K2 Emily is better armed, better protected, faster and has a better climb rate than the Sunderland.  Its climb rate is, in fact, about twice that of the four engined aircraft we have in AH now, and its top speed is close to the same.

Sadly, it would be a monstrously large task for HTC to make it so I cannot think of it as anything other than an extreme longshot to ever be added.
Title: Re: Water we can land and take off from - and aircraft to match.
Post by: LLogann on February 02, 2010, 02:14:15 PM
Karnak makes an incredibly valid point that I had not thought about previously........  The AH water is not ground, it has a completely different structure in game, allowing ships to move through it, but gv's to get "stuck."  They would actually have to create a new plane group in order for it to work.  It isn't quite like slapping on pontoons and we're all set.  The new plane set would have a different code to allow them to land on water and take off again.  HUGE TASK.
Sadly, it would be a monstrously large task for HTC to make it so I cannot think of it as anything other than an extreme longshot to ever be added.
Title: Re: Water we can land and take off from - and aircraft to match.
Post by: BaldEagl on February 02, 2010, 02:17:51 PM


Found on the Internet re: PBY Catalina:

"During WW-II, they were rigged for bombing, strafing, and torpedo runs."

Why couldn't they do that?

BTW, I also like the idea of using the ports as seaplane bases although the Catalina could also be equipped with wheels making it versitile in this area.
Title: Re: Water we can land and take off from - and aircraft to match.
Post by: Karnak on February 02, 2010, 03:11:03 PM
Karnak makes an incredibly valid point that I had not thought about previously........  The AH water is not ground, it has a completely different structure in game, allowing ships to move through it, but gv's to get "stuck."  They would actually have to create a new plane group in order for it to work.  It isn't quite like slapping on pontoons and we're all set.  The new plane set would have a different code to allow them to land on water and take off again.  HUGE TASK.
Heh.  Actually that isn't want I'd been saying.  I was referring to the work needed to add the H8K2 'Emily'.

As to the water landing, I don't think that would take much work.  The PT Boat already has some of the code needed and I don't think it would be excessively hard to modify it for flying boats.
Title: Re: Water we can land and take off from - and aircraft to match.
Post by: LLogann on February 02, 2010, 03:21:29 PM
Nah, you just made me think about it differently.....  :aok 

But the PT doesn't need to fly.  A plane hitting the water will slide to a stop, with gear down, I believe the gear tears off.  They would have to code a way to have "wheels" (that look like pontoons) to be able to touch the water the same way they touch land. 

Although I'm no coder, it sounds like it would take some work. 
Title: Re: Water we can land and take off from - and aircraft to match.
Post by: morfiend on February 02, 2010, 04:09:49 PM
Heh.  Actually that isn't want I'd been saying.  I was referring to the work needed to add the H8K2 'Emily'.

As to the water landing, I don't think that would take much work.  The PT Boat already has some of the code needed and I don't think it would be excessively hard to modify it for flying boats.


  Karnak,remember the flying PT boats??? :devil

   :salute
Title: Re: Water we can land and take off from - and aircraft to match.
Post by: Karnak on February 02, 2010, 06:00:43 PM
Nah, you just made me think about it differently.....  :aok 

But the PT doesn't need to fly.  A plane hitting the water will slide to a stop, with gear down, I believe the gear tears off.  They would have to code a way to have "wheels" (that look like pontoons) to be able to touch the water the same way they touch land. 

Although I'm no coder, it sounds like it would take some work. 
I don't see why there would be any issue with that.  It isn't like an H8K2, Sunderland or PBY lowers gear to land on the water.  In addition, aicraft in AH are quite capable of taking off again after belling landing if they are on a slick enough surface, or a slope that simulates it, and they keep their engines working.


  Karnak,remember the flying PT boats??? :devil

   :salute
Yes, yes I do. I used the N1K2-J to combat them, one UFO against another.   :P
Title: Re: Water we can land and take off from - and aircraft to match.
Post by: Bino on February 02, 2010, 09:33:42 PM
So many cool ideas have been... er... floated... about seaplanes that there has just got to be some way to incorporate them in AH.

Please?  :pray

EDIT:
So long as we also get some Blöhm und Voss BV-138s

(http://www.kg200.org/images/bv138.jpg)
Title: Re: Water we can land and take off from - and aircraft to match.
Post by: LLogann on February 02, 2010, 09:52:40 PM
NO VOSS ALLOWED PUNK!!!!   :neener:

EDIT:
So long as we get some Voss