Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: BnZs on November 18, 2009, 01:17:22 PM
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Perk it lightly, but perk it nonetheless.
Perk it like planes are currently perked-if you come back from your Jabo mission, you keep the perks, if you don't, then you loose them.
What positives will this accomplish?
It will encourage surviving your attack runs. It will discourage bombing and bailing, suicide jabo runs, buffs going down to the deck to strafe ack after dropping, etc. It will give the interception of buffs or jabos *after* they drop some meaning. It will mean that bombs and bombers will no longer effectively be an infinite resource used to destroy finite resources (hangars), that jabos and bombers will no longer be as likely to simply storm suicide runs into places where the enemy has local air superiority. Fighter air superiority will have more meaning, good for gameplay.
Since there are no seperate attack perks, I suppose Jabos will simply have to use fighter perks for ord purchase. This is acceptable, considering that jabos stand a decent chance of survival, flown *intelligently*
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I'll still roll a formation of 88's and sink CV's. I have enough "self-control" to not Lancstuka. Self-Control is the main reason people "Want more things added". They'd rather close their eyes and blame the game, instead of their own lack of control.
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...Fighter air superiority will have more meaning, good for gameplay.
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Seems to me that if there was Fighter Air Superiority, none of the other bomber behaviors would be a factor.. since they would be dead before they hit the target.
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Watching lemming after lemming suicide into the ordnance bunkers and VH is half the entertainment of the main arena. How could you be so cruel to advocate taking that away? :neener:
Look, the main point that must not be forgotten is that current game-play rewards suicide tactics. You can win teh war far more effectively by suiciding than by returning to base after hitting your target.
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Seems to me that if there was Fighter Air Superiority, none of the other bomber behaviors would be a factor.. since they would be dead before they hit the target.
Very difficult to get buffs dead before they hit target in many cases and almost impossible with fast jabos with alt. Perking ordnance would make getting them dead AFTER they hit a target/controlling the airspace to such a point that anything will likely die after hitting target strategically valuable, which currently it is not. And actually attempting to survive would introduce factors into the bombing techniques that would make things more realistic and help defense. I.E, someone being closesly pursued in a jabo by a fighter might actually drop ords and attempt to fight/escape and RTB rather than diving blindly to certain death.
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Look, the main point that must not be forgotten is that current game-play rewards suicide tactics. You can win teh war far more effectively by suiciding than by returning to base after hitting your target.[/quote]
QFT!
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Very difficult to get buffs dead before they hit target in many cases and almost impossible with fast jabos with alt.
Bombers in this game are the equivelant to stealth bombers. They can be detected by radar only 2 minutes before they drop. Not even the 163 Komet can get up to 25k+ to shoot them down with that short a warning.
Historically, these things were NEVER undetected. You had 5 hours or more of advance warning to set up organized missions, defensive plans, etc... In this game one guy scrambles from the deck to try and stop them -- and 100% of the time fails to before they release their eggs.
I'd rather see bomber icons on maps 100mi from the front lines (that's 4 sectors away) regardless of the radar situations. THAT would change the way this suicide porktarding works. [EDIT: Hrm... I suppose jabo with eggs will have to show up also?]
Then again, this is all entirely moot. Once the new bombing super cities come out, the entire bomber game will change in my opinion. For better I hope, but can't truly predict until we see it first-hand.
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I'd like to see dot radar across the map. Instead of our current radar.
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WOOO wooo WOOO wooo WOOO wooo WOOO wooo *screech!*
Freeze! This is the reality police! Put the keyboard on the ground and back away slowly!
Guys this is a game not real life. Let me ask a question, how is a new person to the game supposed to fly a bomber? In order to take off in a B17 you have to have ord selected.
If you want to curve the suicidal guys then make it so a 5 minute wait timer is imposed after you die. But we know that will never happen.
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Guys this is a game not real life. Let me ask a question, how is a new person to the game supposed to fly a bomber? In order to take off in a B17 you have to have ord selected.
You are right, that would be a Catch-22.
Small amount of perk points given on sign-up in each category, and a small weekly "stipend" of perks in each category perhaps?
I wouldn't want the price of ord set VERY high, just enough to give a slight encouragement towards survival.
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Sure perk the ord. Right after they add the B-29 and the nuclear weapons.
If they perked the ord I would have never been able to get good at rocket vulching. :t
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Nope.
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Seems like a very well intentioned idea.......... however one potential "instant BBS drama queen whine" I see are the "theres never a good fight crowd"..............
as it stands......... the "suicide" jabos etc are the vast minority..... the rest will drop their ord...... then hang around and fight a bit typically
as soon as you perk ord and condition it on their landing safely........... now the vast majority will come in and drop their ord, then run home for that safe landing so they keep their perkies
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as soon as you perk ord and condition it on their landing safely........... now the vast majority will come in and drop their ord, then run home for that safe landing so they keep their perkies
Which is superior to them augering into the ground, and introduces complications into dive-bombing technique which don't exist when actually missing the Earth is not a priority. Players RTBing also greatly limits the number of runs they can make in a given period of time vs. the suicide method.
Also there is the possibility that they will skin their ords and fight/run rather enter a terminal velcoity suicide dive to preserve their perks, which also changes things for the better in the offensive/defensive balance IMO.
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destroying ammo bunkers and dar is one of the most wasteful things u can ever do in ah MOST OF THE TIME. Since like 90% of the buffs dont even up from the targeted base anyway. and killing ords at a base that is attacked by gv's wont stop the il2's which are more deadly.
semp
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No ord perking unless its less than .25 perks per every k of bombs or every bomb when carrying less than 1k of bombs. Will kill the newb's gameplay. (no newbs=less money for HTC, no newbs+older players leaving=game dies after a couple of years)
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How about perk the WW first then we will see about the ord.
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No need. Fly above 2k and your safe. Hell, I don't think I've even been shot down by a wirb. There pretty harmless unless theres an expert gunning. Oh they may knock down a few guys, but no one near me ever seems to die all that often.
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No need. Fly above 2k and your safe. Hell, I don't think I've even been shot down by a wirb. There pretty harmless unless theres an expert gunning. Oh they may knock down a few guys, but no one near me ever seems to die all that often.
I still get hit, some killed, above 2k. and no, not by the same person, just random ppl.
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Will kill the newb's gameplay. (no newbs=less money for HTC, no newbs+older players leaving=game dies after a couple of years)
Really? It took me six tours to go on my first divebombing run I think.
Then I went through a period where I would do some dive-bombing runs on a VH in a P-47, "because the 47 was a great ground-attack plane", followed by an attempt to get a kill or two. Then I realized that destroying the VH was usually inconsiderate and not fair to the other fellows, because it left them unable to roll flaks to discourage vulchers or tanks to stop people trying to park GVs on their runway. So I quit doing that and my Jug has climbed faster ever since without the mud movers attached. :D
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I still get hit, some killed, above 2k. and no, not by the same person, just random ppl.
2k alt is just ~ 600 yards distance...
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How about perk the WW first then we will see about the ord.
I am perfectly happy with the WWs use as a defensive weapon, seeing it roll on towns and airfields en masse flotillas otoh is something I can't say the same for. However, if your VH has not been destroyed by a suicide jabo, then WWs are easily dealt with simply by deploy a tank. :devil
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2k alt is just ~ 600 yards distance...
ok, on there icon, i see 1.5-2k. when i am beyond that i still getting hits by them as high as 6k on my altimeter.
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Bombers in this game are the equivelant to stealth bombers. They can be detected by radar only 2 minutes before they drop. Not even the 163 Komet can get up to 25k+ to shoot them down with that short a warning.
Historically, these things were NEVER undetected. You had 5 hours or more of advance warning to set up organized missions, defensive plans, etc... In this game one guy scrambles from the deck to try and stop them -- and 100% of the time fails to before they release their eggs.
I'd rather see bomber icons on maps 100mi from the front lines (that's 4 sectors away) regardless of the radar situations. THAT would change the way this suicide porktarding works. [EDIT: Hrm... I suppose jabo with eggs will have to show up also?]
Then again, this is all entirely moot. Once the new bombing super cities come out, the entire bomber game will change in my opinion. For better I hope, but can't truly predict until we see it first-hand.
Krusty, it is not undetected in AH either. There is darbar.
Now, What would be cool is to say if someone goes above 20K or 25K, their dot will show up on the map regardless of whether they are in a dar ring or not. This is how the scenario is set up and it's pretty cool.
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It is undetected. Dar bar tells you nothing other than "there's somebody there" -- which 90% of the time means low furballers, NOE dweebs that broke their deck alt, and so on.
It does not tell you "bombers are on their way" -- which in every case in WW2, was known. Heavy bombers did not strike without detection, and whether or not a single part of a bomber stream was attacked entirely depended on how busy the defense fighters were with OTHER parts of the bomber stream.
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It is undetected. Dar bar tells you nothing other than "there's somebody there" -- which 90% of the time means low furballers, NOE dweebs that broke their deck alt, and so on.
It does not tell you "bombers are on their way" -- which in every case in WW2, was known. Heavy bombers did not strike without detection, and whether or not a single part of a bomber stream was attacked entirely depended on how busy the defense fighters were with OTHER parts of the bomber stream.
Reading darbar is a skill of its own. If you see a massive darbar suddenly up 4-5 sectors behind the front line, there's a pretty good chance it's bombers :)
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*raises hand*
question.
If we perk ord...then how will the new players and some of the old players be able to up a bomber since all the bombers beside the IL 2 and what the B25H have to up with ord ???
Riddle me this batman.
<<<S>>>
JB76
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good point wpmega, since most new guys basically only up in buffs since they're the easiest to fly.
semp
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I was an avid bomber-photographer when I was new, so no, don't perk my rubble bouncers!
-Penguin
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Maybe for Fighters.
Bombers shouldn't need to buy ...er..bombs though.
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Already discussed this one earlier in thread and realized it was indeed a catch-22, proposed that it would require giving everyone a certain amount of perks with their account and probably also doling out a certain amount of perks time to time just in case someone should happen to run their buff perks completely dry.
*raises hand*
question.
If we perk ord...then how will the new players and some of the old players be able to up a bomber since all the bombers beside the IL 2 and what the B25H have to up with ord ???
Riddle me this batman.
<<<S>>>
JB76
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I read that.
My comment was not the same. Hence the post.
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*raises hand*
question.
If we perk ord...then how will the new players and some of the old players be able to up a bomber since all the bombers beside the IL 2 and what the B25H have to up with ord ???
Riddle me this batman.
<<<S>>>
JB76
maybe only excessive amounts of ord would need to be perked, smaller loadouts are free like 250lb and down, 4-6 rockets, etc.
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I like this idea a lot, but only if smaller bombs remain unperked. 250lbs and below should not be perked. This will still allow new players to use bombers. And will still encourage largescale city or strat bombing (whereas if the light 250 lbers were perked, I doubt many bomber missions would go deep behind enemy lines for carpet strat bombing, but not that many do now anyway).
I think, if ALL bombs were perked, the idea of a stipend as you described is a sensible workaround for new players, but is unnecessarily complicated as long as leaving an unperked lighter bomb option would solve the issue easier.
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Adding the PTAB-2.5-1.5 clusters to the Il2 should carrry a perk IMO. (so its not just about individual weight its really about total loadout)
PTAB hollow charge cluster bombs ( 4 x 48 bomb clusters or upto 280 across the 4 bomb bays) were not just used, but used almost continuouslly against tanks / armoured vehicles from mid 43 (Kursk) through to the end of hostilities. It was as common (on the IL2) as the FAB general purpose bomb AH models.
One of these PTAB-2.5-1.5 could (apparently) penetrate upto 60-70mm of armour.
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Rem that perking is about putting a deposit on something. You only lose perk points if you dont bring it back!
So for ordinance either we are buying (spending perks) up front to aquire certain load outs or we make a deposit on the aircraft based upon its loadout and only pay it if we do not bring the aircraft back.
I prefer the latter. ie if you bring the aircraft back you do not pay for the ord used. This will motivate folk not to suicide.
AH does not have to then levy the perk against individual bombs. It simply perks the loadout options available.
Should a Lancaster loaded with 1000lb'ers carry 7 x the perk of a P51 loaded with 1000lb'ers. (or even 21 times for formations) I suggest not.
And what was the more typical loadout? a P51 carrying 2000lbs or a Lancaster carrying 14000lbs? I suggest the latter.
Yet we could argue that a 3 cannon La7 should be perked but not a 2 cannon. We are not perking the additional 20mm cannon we are perking the total effective loadout.
The tools used here would then be the same as now.
Influence on game play and (to some lesser extent) historical validity.
Nothing to do with bomb size etc.
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I say bring on the B-29 and perk it.
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:aok
Rem that perking is about putting a deposit on something. You only lose perk points if you dont bring it back!
So for ordinance either we are buying (spending perks) up front to aquire certain load outs or we make a deposit on the aircraft based upon its loadout and only pay it if we do not bring the aircraft back.
I prefer the latter. ie if you bring the aircraft back you do not pay for the ord used. This will motivate folk not to suicide.
AH does not have to then levy the perk against individual bombs. It simply perks the loadout options available.
Should a Lancaster loaded with 1000lb'ers carry 7 x the perk of a P51 loaded with 1000lb'ers. (or even 21 times for formations) I suggest not.
And what was the more typical loadout? a P51 carrying 2000lbs or a Lancaster carrying 14000lbs? I suggest the latter.
Yet we could argue that a 3 cannon La7 should be perked but not a 2 cannon. We are not perking the additional 20mm cannon we are perking the total effective loadout.
The tools used here would then be the same as now.
Influence on game play and (to some lesser extent) historical validity.
Nothing to do with bomb size etc.