Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: Krusty on December 04, 2009, 10:49:43 PM
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screwing with wind so it's 50mph alternating N and S every 2K didn't stop the allies from coming into the target with 10 boxes of 22k B17s, and over a dozen tempests at 26-28k, and over a dozen p51Ds equally high...
Try a down draft next time?
Edit:
AND get rid of the alt-monkey inducing air spawns, if they were the culprit.
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No alt cap so I don't want a down draft.
Just said strong gusty winds above 21k.
Will be keeping the alt monkey air spawns as it aids the bombers to reach their targets within 60 minutes at a reasonable alt.
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We were trying to climb to altitude to intercept a group of 30k P-51s and the instant we hit the wind layer we stalled out. And I mean it was like we flew into a brick wall. Bam! *STALL HORN*
The Axis planes in this setup struggle to get to that altitude as it is, wind like this is just going to make it even rougher....
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We were trying to climb to altitude to intercept a group of 30k P-51s and the instant we hit the wind layer we stalled out. And I mean it was like we flew into a brick wall. Bam! *STALL HORN*
The Axis planes in this setup struggle to get to that altitude as it is, wind like this is just going to make it even rougher....
We never notice anything with the wind in the P-51. What where you guys flying?
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our group was in k4s at 30k and didnt have to bad of a problem
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Even in still air, K4s struggle at 30k.. Doras can barely fly (can't make even a gentle wing bank without losing tons of alt)
The wind only aggravated the already-underdog defenders.
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Were bombers at that level able to perform?
If so, what's the problem?
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We were Spit XIVs and I ordered everyone below 28k because of the wind and then we ran into 31k G14s.
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We were Spit XIVs and I ordered everyone below 28k because of the wind and then we ran into 31k G14s.
All the German stuff was above my 51. Wine ignored.....yet again.
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and over a dozen tempests at 26-28k
9 temps.
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Even in still air, K4s struggle at 30k.. Doras can barely fly (can't make even a gentle wing bank without losing tons of alt)
The wind only aggravated the already-underdog defenders.
hhmmmm......strange - Dora's and K's were operational to 39k or there abouts - A8's would certainly start to wallow around 30-33k but usable if handled lightly on the controls. The 109K's (if properly modeled) shouldl eat 51's for breakfast AND lunch at 30k+ altitude. :lol
We flew K's most of the night around 28-35k without much prob - a wind shear as we went through 30k but not too bad once we knew about it. For once it was nice to fly at realistic altitudes.
Thanx to the organizers - has the makings of a great series!!
oh ya....CURSES to you Allies!! Your mothers were all tail gunners on mau mau war canoes!! heheheh
...cheers eh! :D
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Tempests at 26k? You should thank them because that's a waste of the plane's potential.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/genchart.php?p1=38&p2=1&pw=1>ype=0)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/genchart.php?p1=38&p2=44&pw=1>ype=0)
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When we started last night I was made aware of the 20k or so winds. I said I was going to go up past and see just how bad they were. We always seem to get bounced by higher planes when theres any form of alt restriction or warning. So up we went. It was 25k before I felt any affect. It did a odd shakey thing as the wind directions changed(according to Blbird) but that was it. I will take a little of that if it means we as as high or higher than them.
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Even in still air, K4s struggle at 30k.. Doras can barely fly (can't make even a gentle wing bank without losing tons of alt)
I disagree with this statement. I learned in Red Storm Kruppe Steal that the K4s do just fine up at 30K.
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I was able to wep through most of the wind shear layers at 150 to 200mph...pretty bad between 26k to 30k had to be careful...if you got hit by one of the cross gusts it could flip you over and put you into a dead stall. Flying a K4 I got up to 38k looking for bombers over Eisenach and once I got over 30k there was no crosswind. Speaking of which, did bombers hit Eisenach and what alt were they flying at? I saw a large portion of the eastern side of the city destroyed but nobody saw any planes in the area.
The worst thing that happened with the wind was getting jumped by P51s at 28k and having to fight the cross winds while maneuvering...that was a nail biter. :uhoh
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Having directly opposing 50 knot winds aloft in 4-6k layers is totally unrealistic. The shear was horrific. As I posted over a year ago to be realistic, the wind direction should change gradually in 20 to 30 degree increments per layer, not to exceed 200 degrees over a 30k depth. The speed should increase between 10 to 30 knots between each layer until you hit a "jet stream" then they should decrease in altitude again above that layer. This would have provided the "gusts" you were looking for.
In past FSO's all wind levels and directions were posted with the initial write up or at least with the objectives.
Finally, perhaps I missed it, but no where did I see that the Allies had air spawns. This would have been nice to know.
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I noticed that when flying with or against the wind (north or south) it wasnt much of a problem. However, when flying east or west i hit a wind layer and it threw my 190D off as much as 45 degrees. I almost stalled a couple of times while i was turning and hit the wind. :O
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I'll give all of my thousands bomber perkies and 7 sheep for the ta-152 to be added for frame 2.
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I'm assuming we're talking about the raid on A31?
The Buffs were at 20K, it was 9 Tempests and 6 P51's. But yes - the Allied fighters do seem to out perform the Axis birds at that alt - particularly the Tempests. Or maybe that was just the Muppits driving them ( :salute to them BTW )
For the record, the Buffs did OK, but not great on their drop, primarilly because of the cloud cover which was all the way more or less to the deck at the target. The base was hit again later by the P51's. Prior to that second raid, most of the hangers were soft but still standing.
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Double post - doh
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The Buffs were at 20K, it was 9 Tempests and 6 P51's. But yes - the Allied fighters do seem to out perform the Axis birds at that alt - particularly the Tempests. Or maybe that was just the Muppits driving them ( :salute to them BTW )
Did you see the chart I posted? The Tempest is disadvantaged at high altitude. Its vaunted main arena reputation is only due to the low altitude of the fights we have there.
And here it is against the 51D:
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/genchart.php?p1=0&p2=38&pw=1>ype=0)
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Finally, perhaps I missed it, but no where did I see that the Allies had air spawns. This would have been nice to know.
As the Cic I assumed that all CO's would have read the Axis objectives. It states on page 2 and page 4 that the Allies have airstarts and what bases they may use.
On the map I sent out there is also a key that shows airstart bases.
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My apologies, I missed that information in the orders and that information was cut off when I printed the map.
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As for the winds...
Having directly opposing 50 knot winds aloft in 4-6k layers is totally unrealistic. The shear was horrific. As I posted over a year ago to be realistic, the wind direction should change gradually in 20 to 30 degree increments per layer, not to exceed 200 degrees over a 30k depth. The speed should increase between 10 to 30 knots between each layer until you hit a "jet stream" then they should decrease in altitude again above that layer. This would have provided the "gusts" you were looking for.
IMHO those settings we have used before do not give a realistic ‘gusty strong wind’ feeling. With a few degrees change between layers it does nothing to represent strong gusts. Winds in AH are steady and completely consistent.
Many have experienced strong turbulence in aircraft. That is what I am trying to represent. Your right, the settings are unrealistic for real winds, but I am not aiming for realistic settings. I am aiming for a realistic feeling.
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No bombers hit Eisenach. Roughly 30 - 35 P-51 with ords were sent. Im not sure of how many made it to target.
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As for the winds... IMHO those settings we have used before do not give a realistic ‘gusty strong wind’ feeling. With a few degrees change between layers it does nothing to represent strong gusts. Winds in AH are steady and completely consistent.
Many have experienced strong turbulence in aircraft. That is what I am trying to represent. Your right, the settings are unrealistic for real winds, but I am not aiming for realistic settings. I am aiming for a realistic feeling.
If you want turbulence then put a 20 knot rise or fall in the winds in alternate layers, the settings allow for that.
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the wind hit us (in tyhpoons) and it seemed realistic to me (I'm just a tard thoo :D ) and 190's and 109's seemed well above our 26k flight :salute
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The attack on A31 by the Allies was planed quite well. The reason you guys got jumped is the p51's came in ahead of the buffs to break your attack up. The Tempests (Muppets flying) held back behind the formation and we nosed in from about 23k. We tried to go over 25k but the Tempest couldn't get through it without loosing control. We held our attack unitl the k4's made there attack runs. We just caught you guys at the right moment.
The buffs linked up with fighter cover as planned and we then planed out exactly how we were going to handle the bad guys.
I will have to say it was the most coordinated fighter escort I have ever been involved in in FSO.
I think it was more coordination and tactics than anything else.
:salute
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I expected far more bombers to attack us. :headscratch: Especially in the North close to the Northern airstarts.
On the orders I put out, I advised planes to use their advantages and for 109's to engage with fighters while 190s concentrated on buffs. I'm sure thats why many 190's kept their alt at the sight of fighters. They were looking for the bombers as I had directed.
:salute Viper61. You made the right moves by throwing minimal buffs and concentrating on the South. I guessed wrong on both of the main decisions you had.
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I expected far more bombers to attack us. :headscratch: Especially in the North close to the Northern airstarts.
On the orders I put out, I advised planes to use their advantages and for 109's to engage with fighters while 190s concentrated on buffs. I'm sure thats why many 190's kept their alt at the sight of fighters. They were looking for the bombers as I had directed.
:salute Viper61. You made the right moves by throwing minimal buffs and concentrating on the South. I guessed wrong on both of the main decisions you had.
yep we stayed high in our 190s as 30-35 mustangs flew past us we realized a little too late that those mustangs were heavy as Eisenach started taking hits
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Ought to appreciate our discipline not to just jump in and attack anything that moved, tho. What delayed us from engaging was the bases W of the city continued flashining AFTER the group of P-51s passed the DAR circle, so my squad was still looking for another group coming up.
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Ought to appreciate our discipline not to just jump in and attack anything that moved, tho. What delayed us from engaging was the bases W of the city continued flashining AFTER the group of P-51s passed the DAR circle, so my squad was still looking for another group coming up.
I wonder if we (353rd FG) where the P-51 group that you passed. At some point, we flew right through 190s and 262 and not one of us fire a shot. we just kept going our separate ways.
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We were a group of G-14s. We were heading north to check out the contact and saw you passing at extreme dot vis east at around our 1 o'clock, but turned our search further west initially expecting bombers to be following behind from that direction. Too bad there weren't any, because we would have been PERFECTLY positioned to hit them without interference from the initial sweep.
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Our Buffs were 14 to 16 K we staggered the formations for better defence, Didn't really need to, felt real safe with the AoM there, The Army of Muppet's took care of any fighter that got close, i think we lost 5 total but 2 were from that Air launch, Bombing 31 was hard due to the thick low cloud layer, but all in all its was a blast, i think at one point i heard on range that Bipolar had 4 or 5 bad guys on him But they were dispatched quickly, i guess they use BP as bait from time to time hehe
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Our Buffs were 14 to 16 K we staggered the formations for better defence, Didn't really need to, felt real safe with the AoM there, The Army of Muppet's took care of any fighter that got close, i think we lost 5 total but 2 were from that Air launch, Bombing 31 was hard due to the thick low cloud layer, but all in all its was a blast, i think at one point i heard on range that Bipolar had 4 or 5 bad guys on him But they were dispatched quickly, i guess they use BP as bait from time to time hehe
Yeah, BiPolar pulled a "Lllleerrrroyyyyyy Jenkkkkkinnnnnnnssss" on us and dove to the deck with his tempest. We were all forced to risk death in saving him. Luckily though, 7/9 of us survived. :)