Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: bcadoo on December 05, 2009, 12:15:39 AM
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Ok. The way I understand that the puffy ack works is that it is randomly generated in a box around your aircraft. I can see puffy ack going after other aircraft around the city and the cv's.
So the question is: Can you be damaged by the puffy ack going after another aircraft? Is it better to fly a looser formation when going through puffy ack or is it just eye candy and the only puffy ack you have to worry about is your 'own'?
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if ur flying next to the plane that is being targeted and ur in the box as well then there is a chance u will get hit.
dont forget the fuses are proximity type so if the shell misses its intended target by a big enough distance NOT to detonate the shell then it
keeps going till it does reach a target (possable you!!) or comes back down to earth/sea.
if ur in the way of the shell to its intended target u get hit. this can be seen when ur in 5" shooting at cons about 3-4k when the furballing with friendlies, some time ur ack will detonate at the friendly not the con.
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if ur flying next to the plane that is being targeted and ur in the box as well then there is a chance u will get hit.
dont forget the fuses are proximity type so if the shell misses its intended target by a big enough distance NOT to detonate the shell then it
keeps going till it does reach a target (possable you!!) or comes back down to earth/sea.
if ur in the way of the shell to its intended target u get hit. this can be seen when ur in 5" shooting at cons about 3-4k when the furballing with friendlies, some time ur ack will detonate at the friendly not the con.
There is mixed, misleading information here. The only proximity fuses in game are from 5 inch shells that are fired by a player. Auto puffy ack is not proximity based, it is in fact exactly as the OP described, a "box" around your plane.
Manned 5 inch shells will *detonate* upon proximity to a friendly, but will not cause damage to said friendly.
If you, as a friendly air asset to auto puffy ack, are reasonably close to an enemy air target, it IS possible to be killed by your "own" puffy ack. Again, not by your owned manned guns, but your own auto ack.
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i thought auto ack was proximity as well. thanks for the correction.
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It's also worth noting that puffy ack can also damage friendly units if they are flying within that "box".
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puffy ack in this game is an absolute joke, people parking the cv right off field go over 3k and your a dead man I've had my engine killed from the first shot more times than I haven't, that is in a fight if I 'break' my 3k limit even for a spilt second blam engine out or if you clip the edge of the puffy limit around the cv bam first hit engine out or oil coolant pw etc basically something that makes your 10 minute transit to the fight a complete waste of time you may as well bail and start again. Not to mention coming back from afk to find your almost in outer space with puffy ack accurately knocking the hell out of you whats the limit on how high this stuff can fire?? :lol
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Not to mention coming back from afk to find your almost in outer space with puffy ack accurately knocking the hell out of you whats the limit on how high this stuff can fire?? :lol
A real life example: The 8,8 Flak 41 had an effective ceiling of ~ 37k, max alt was ~47k, the 12,8 Flak 40 similar limits.
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A real life example: The 8,8 Flak 41 had an effective ceiling of ~ 37k, max alt was ~47k, the 12,8 Flak 40 similar limits.
If we are talking 'real life' here can you tell me if it is even possible to for someone to actually see someone at that range?? let alone effectively target them??? Some of the distances you are talking about are in excess of 8 miles! :eek:
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If we are talking 'real life' here can you tell me if it is even possible to for someone to actually see someone at that range?? let alone effectively target them??? Some of the distances you are talking about are in excess of 8 miles! :eek:
For the most part of the war, German AA fire was radar guided.
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For the most part of the war, German AA fire was radar guided.
And if the German AA had the same kind of long range accuracy as HTCs puffy ack there wouldn't have been a bomb dropped on Berlin! :lol Unless it was accompanied by a flaming b-17 :eek:
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And if the German AA had the same kind of long range accuracy as HTCs puffy ack there wouldn't have been a bomb dropped on Berlin! :lol Unless it was accompanied by a flaming b-17 :eek:
Are you trying to say puffy ack was not accurate and deadly in WWII?
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Are you trying to say puffy ack was not accurate and deadly in WWII?
Clearly not accurate or deadly enough otherwise they wouldn't have bothered bombing places because all the bombers/escorts would simply have been shot down without the need to ever send a figher up after them!! :lol
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Clearly not accurate or deadly enough otherwise they wouldn't have bothered bombing places because all the bombers/escorts would simply have been shot down without the need to ever send a figher up after them!! :lol
It's not that bad. I have been flying 3 sorties now against the new strats and haven't lost a single bomber yet due to ack.
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It's not that bad. I have been flying 3 sorties now against the new strats and haven't lost a single bomber yet due to ack.
You should join me for a few flights!! :lol I can't believe I'm that unlucky :noid
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Clearly not accurate or deadly enough otherwise they wouldn't have bothered bombing places because all the bombers/escorts would simply have been shot down without the need to ever send a figher up after them!! :lol
You should read a book about the Eighth Air Force someday. Might change your opinion on flak.
More bombers were lost to flak, than to fighters..
And in war you don't have the luxury of not fighting just because you may die.
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Ok. The way I understand that the puffy ack works is that it is randomly generated in a box around your aircraft.
IMHO this is a misnomer...... the box is not around my aircraft but inside it. :P
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You should read a book about the Eighth Air Force someday. Might change your opinion on flak.
More bombers were lost to flak, than to fighters...
Watched plenty of documentary's on it and I can't say it was ever focused on as a defining part of their what I most fear experience then again I wasn't there and neither were you :)
And in war you don't have the luxury of not fighting just because you may die.
Well obviously, seriously whats next my a b c? :lol
I can see what you are driving for here, my question is what does it have to do with my original gripe??? If you can find me an account of an aircraft being shot down with one shot shell at the limits of the guns range in real life please feel free to share it with me. That is basically my original gripe.
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Watched plenty of documentary's on it and I can't say it was ever focused on as a defining part of their what I most fear experience then again I wasn't there and neither were you :)
I can assure you, from nearly every account from an American bomber crew in WWII, flak was certainly a defining thing for them.
I was not there, but luckily, hundreds of those who were have shared their memories and journals with others. Some have written books, some have helped write books.
The fact is, more bombers were lost to ack, than to fighters.
I'm sorry the history channel doesn't acknowledge how deadly and feared flak was.
Bombers were regularly shot down by puffy ack at altitudes of 20,000 feet and up.
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I'm sorry the history channel doesn't acknowledge how deadly and feared flak was.
Bombers were regularly shot down by puffy ack at altitudes of 20,000 feet and up.
I've seen where flak was feared by buff crews..... on the history channel.
There is a lot of stories in books about how bad flak was. In that regard the flak is probably pretty close in AH. I know I fear it. :aok
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/18/B-24_Flak.jpg/800px-B-24_Flak.jpg)
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/18/B-24_Flak.jpg/800px-B-24_Flak.jpg)
Yup... so thick you could walk on it. Never knowing where the next one would burst.
Not like watching a fighter and seeing where he was going to fire.
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And as Lusche mentioned, they were radar guided. If that wasn't enough, German fighters would fly outside of American formations, relaying ground speed and altitude to the gunners below. The point of showing that picture, was to show pervert how accurate they could be even with altitude. As you can tell from looking at the ground, the B-24 is quite high. As you can see the clouds of flak behind him, you can see what he just flew through.
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I personally hate puffy ack in game....... so it must be pretty accurate as the crews pretty much said the same in RL. The difference of course is that I just get a new plane..... and I still hate flak.
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I personally hate puffy ack in game....... so it must be pretty accurate as the crews pretty much said the same in RL. The difference of course is that I just get a new plane..... and I still hate flak.
Same here, I hate getting killed by a computer. Although, at least the computer doesn't then get on 200 and claim it owns me :D
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Same here, I hate getting killed by a computer. Although, at least the computer doesn't then get on 200 and claim it owns me :D
Flak owns everyone :neener:
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looks like we don't have enough...
(http://aviary.com/viewfull?fguid=79622fba-330c-102d-80b9-0030488e168c)
from here http://www.spitfirespares.com/SpitfireSpares.com/Pages/reference2l.html (http://www.spitfirespares.com/SpitfireSpares.com/Pages/reference2l.html)
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And as Lusche mentioned, they were radar guided. If that wasn't enough, German fighters would fly outside of American formations, relaying ground speed and altitude to the gunners below. The point of showing that picture, was to show pervert how accurate they could be even with altitude. As you can tell from looking at the ground, the B-24 is quite high. As you can see the clouds of flak behind him, you can see what he just flew through.
I appreciate the effort on your part with the pictures and yes there are hundreds of ack bursts but the picture being in existence alone is proof that the ack isn't that accurate ie blowing you out of the sky with the first shot the minute your in range as it does in the game. You seem to be not reading what I've wrote and instead are offering me up proof that lots of ack existed in ww2 which I never disputed.
The quote from McDeath's picture/post is pretty much the same as I hear on any programme I've ever watched on it. Stating that it was a psychological terror as much as a real threat. I'm not disputing that planes didn't get shot down by it but it doesn't say something like
"as we crossed over the Mereseberg area hundreds of flak guns cut loose my plane was hit straight away and as I floated down in my chute I thought that flaks a nightmare!"
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It's not that bad. I have been flying 3 sorties now against the new strats and haven't lost a single bomber yet due to ack.
And therein lies the problem...the fact that the stuff is terribly ineffective against bombers yet deadly against fighters.
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I appreciate the effort on your part with the pictures and yes there are hundreds of ack bursts but the picture being in existence alone is proof that the ack isn't that accurate ie blowing you out of the sky with the first shot the minute your in range as it does in the game. You seem to be not reading what I've wrote and instead are offering me up proof that lots of ack existed in ww2 which I never disputed.
The quote from McDeath's picture/post is pretty much the same as I hear on any programme I've ever watched on it. Stating that it was a psychological terror as much as a real threat. I'm not disputing that planes didn't get shot down by it but it doesn't say something like
"as we crossed over the Mereseberg area hundreds of flak guns cut loose my plane was hit straight away and as I floated down in my chute I thought that flaks a nightmare!"
Why do you think they feared flak? Because it looked scary? No, because it regularly killed them as soon as it appeared. One minute clear skies, the next they turned black with little puffy clouds, planes were ripped in half, wings taken off, tales blown apart. One single shell from an 88 could easily kill anything we had in the sky. And guess what? It did.
Flak killed more bombers than even German fighters did.
To say that flak was merely psychological terror is insane. Read a book, the history channel and military channel are not going to be able to give you the sorts of stories and first hand accounts a book can.
Here is a good one to start out on: http://www.amazon.com/Flying-Flak-Alley-Personal-Accounts/dp/0786437073 (http://www.amazon.com/Flying-Flak-Alley-Personal-Accounts/dp/0786437073)
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It's not that bad. I have been flying 3 sorties now against the new strats and haven't lost a single bomber yet due to ack.
That's because you're in bombers. Puffy ack couldn't hit a slow-moving buff formation with the broadside of a barn. However in a fighter at 400mph you're fricken' screwed.
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Why do you think they feared flak? Because it looked scary? No, because it regularly killed them as soon as it appeared. One minute clear skies, the next they turned black with little puffy clouds, planes were ripped in half, wings taken off, tales blown apart. One single shell from an 88 could easily kill anything we had in the sky. And guess what? It did.
Flak killed more bombers than even German fighters did.
To say that flak was merely psychological terror is insane. Read a book, the history channel and military channel are not going to be able to give you the sorts of stories and first hand accounts a book can.
Here is a good one to start out on: http://www.amazon.com/Flying-Flak-Alley-Personal-Accounts/dp/0786437073 (http://www.amazon.com/Flying-Flak-Alley-Personal-Accounts/dp/0786437073)
Your still answering parts you want to answer here I don't see the relevance?? We are veering off onto bombers here perhaps I should make my original statement more specific that this is in a 109 I'm always hit in the only bombers I fly is the ju87 from time to time I still find this to hard to believe that without warning I can stray into the edge of a flak zone from a cv and have my engine killed with the very first burst. Judging from other people's comments in this thread the bombers in game are not as easily shot down despite being a lot bigger and a lot slower. This kind of thing so far from a cv doesn't benefit anyone it just makes for a wasted frustrating journey and takes away from the playing experience.
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How about this:
Group A: People who regularly fly fighters
Group B: those who fly bombers
One day have all the group As fly bombers and all the group Bs fly fighters, now tell me how often bombers are killed by flak compared to how often fighters are.
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Someone please change Mensa's diaper..... he's been spreading poop again. :D
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Check out "the wild blue..the men and boys who flew the B-24's over Germany" by Stephen E. Ambrose, theres no denying first hand account of how terrifiying flak was. :cheers:
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I get killed or damaged by first round bursts quite often. :furious
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I appreciate the effort on your part with the pictures and yes there are hundreds of ack bursts but the picture being in existence alone is proof that the ack isn't that accurate ie blowing you out of the sky with the first shot the minute your in range as it does in the game. You seem to be not reading what I've wrote and instead are offering me up proof that lots of ack existed in ww2 which I never disputed.
The quote from McDeath's picture/post is pretty much the same as I hear on any programme I've ever watched on it. Stating that it was a psychological terror as much as a real threat. I'm not disputing that planes didn't get shot down by it but it doesn't say something like
"as we crossed over the Mereseberg area hundreds of flak guns cut loose my plane was hit straight away and as I floated down in my chute I thought that flaks a nightmare!"
You don't hear first hand accounts from the ones who got killed by AAA, only from their friends who don't want to be next.
62,021 USAAF personnel were Killed in Action in the ETO.
41,057 USAAF personnel were captured or interned in the ETO.
Source(pdf) (http://www.taphilo.com/history/8thaf/Air-Force-Casualaties-WWII-Summary.pdf)
No. AAA wasn't accurate. These must have been all Air to Air kills. Chivalry. Knights of the Air and what not.
Sure... :rofl
Accuracy? Read This (http://www.taphilo.com/history/8thaf/crosseyedcharlie.shtml)
As for fighters that can't "take it"? Easily killed by one hit?
Of course they are!!!
They're smaller. They take less damage to kill. One Tater and (http://www.animatedgif.net/fireexplosions/explosion_e0.gif)
This is a game.... Think of how coading is done. It takes more cumulative "hit points" to kill a bomber than a fighter. Durability.
In combat, fighters didn't fly through AAA when they didn't have to because it was dangerous.
Think about it.
wrongway