Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: jimson on December 08, 2009, 10:26:59 AM
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I would like to see an axis v allies set up in the main arena once per week. Sort of like an ava titanic tuesday, with all main theaters represented on one map.
A central area representing Germany and the occupied territories, a large Island to the west of that representing the allied presence in the UK. To the north, an allied area representing Russia. To the east, an area representing the Japanese home land with island bases leading to an area representing Hawaii as a staging area for the Pacific fleet.
Of course, you would have to fudge distances, etc to make it playable
Enable only roughly appropriate planes and vehicles in the respective areas.
Only the center most, (maybe uncapturable) bases of your areas would have the newest rides enabled, but as you pushed further into enemy territory they would become progressively enabled at those bases too.
That would kind of simulate the timeline of the war and force you to capture some pacific islands before you could run heavy bombing raids into the Japanese homeland, for example.
You could still fly any plane you wanted but you'd pay a price by only being able to fly from certain areas and bases.
By the time you were striking the enemy heart, you could be bringing your newest rides against their's.
Yeah, you'd be giving players only one choice of main arena play, but it would be just one day a week.
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yes i will like to horde gang axis rides very much.
+1
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If people want to fly AvA once a week they can already do that. What is different about your idea that would be worth forcing people to do something they aren't choosing to do?
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Sounds like putting up with Titanic Tuesday.....Why should it be any different for an AvA setup? Some people hate flying with that setup but have to put up with it. I would love to see Titanic Tuesday up again the other arena with LW AvA.
LWB AvA vs LWO TT?
Strip
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Sounds like putting up with Titanic Tuesday.....Why should it be any different for an AvA setup? Some people hate flying with that setup but have to put up with it. I would love to see Titanic Tuesday up again the other arena with LW AvA.
LWB AvA vs LWO TT?
Strip
Why should it be any different for an AvA setup?
1. TT does not change the rules of the game, only the quantity of players.
2. People do not have the choice to play TT any other day of the week, but they do have the choice of playing AVA.
HiTech
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+1
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If people want to fly AvA once a week they can already do that. What is different about your idea that would be worth forcing people to do something they aren't choosing to do?
They are not choosing to, because few are in there. People get used to everyone being in one place and it self perpetuates.
This would be just one day to shake things up a bit and get folks into playing a historical type of game.
2. People do not have the choice to play TT any other day of the week, but they do have the choice of playing AVA.
HiTech
This is true, but if it could be done similar to the way I described, it would not be a typical set-up, and could have some historically based type of strategy involved.
With all the rants against TT that I read every week, this would have a further objective than just getting everyone into one arena, and would give everyone a chance to fly a more semi-historically based game with a lot of players.
Oh well, it's really just another of my personal wishes for more historical type game play, because I can rarely attend any of the special events.
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1. TT does not change the rules of the game, only the quantity of players.
2. People do not have the choice to play TT any other day of the week, but they do have the choice of playing AVA.
HiTech
Do I have to the choice to not play in Titanic Tuesday if I wish to fly LW?
They affect different things true, but the idea is similar.
Strip
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They are not choosing to, because few are in there.
This is completely false. The arena does not gain a large following simply because people prefer the LW.
They affect different things true, but the idea is similar.
The idea is not similar in any way.
The AvA idea is only an idea to force people to play the game you want to play.
TT does NOT, repeat NOT change the game. It only changes the cap on the arena. In fact if it was not for the milk runners I would leave a 2nd LW open. But most people would still all be in 1 arena.
HiTech
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haha rofl!
HTC is against the milk runners. /cheer :D
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I respectfully disagree...on both accounts.
AvA suffers from lack of success, thats at least some of the problem, who wants to fly in an empty arena?
Strip
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I respectfully disagree...on both accounts.
AvA suffers from lack of success, thats at least some of the problem, who wants to fly in an empty arena?
Strip
Hmm I have been hearing that exact statement for over 15 years. In fact some one once tried to force people into an AvA arena, it was the beginning of the end for the entire game.
HiTech
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It is most often the numbers and the action that draws people. Then only if there is a choice between 2 action filled arenas, will they consider the setup or the map. And of course a smaller map with 200 players usually offers more action that a large map with 200 players :)
It is never simple.... but the main thing is that we have this game :aok
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This might be a good time to mention you have a great game here and I'm sure you know best how to run it, but this is a wishlist.
The AvA idea is only an idea to force people to play the game you want to play.
HiTech
Lol, I guess that's true.
You need to satisfy the majority, and if the current set-up is the way people want it, it should be. Right now I'm pretty much forced to play in the all sides enabled, historically incorrect arenas, simply because that's what's available.
I'm still here.
Here's a question for everyone.
When you first heard of AH or any other WW2 air combat game, did you envision Spits vs Spits and Mustangs vs Mustangs?
No you didn't, Walter Mitty.
You were thinking Spits vs Messerschmidts and Hellcats vs Zero's.
So if the game has evolved to where the former is the most popular, then that's the way it should stay most of the time, but I doubt if it would spell the beginning of the end, if just one day a week, people had to try the latter.
Might become a pretty popular day.
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I think that the FSO satisfies people's need to get historical and immerse themselves in the way the OP is describing. I like the idea of having people use the Axis vs. Allies arena more often, but I can't imagine gameplay being anywhere near as civilized in the AvA as it is in FSO.
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I think it would be interesting to add, but I'd do something a little different than the OP is describing. I'd set it up so on Tuesday, one of the LW MAs would become your "TT", whereas the other would be the more historically correct arena.
HT, the problem is, unfortunately, that the server is unpopulated. Being an admin in a few other games, you learn ways to get more people into your servers, as that's how donations are received and the server survives. Basic rule of thumb is always have some sort of action going on. If there is a server with people on, enjoying themselves and playing, no ones going to go for the server with nobody in it and do nothing, especially those who don't have the time to wait for the server to populate.
That's my $.02 and HT, I didn't mean that to be a personal attack or an "in your face I know more than you" correction, as we both know that's not true, I'm just speaking from personal experience. :salute
Trig
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This might be a good time to mention you have a great game here and I'm sure you know best how to run it, but this is a wishlist.
Lol, I guess that's true.
You need to satisfy the majority, and if the current set-up is the way people want it, it should be. Right now I'm pretty much forced to play in the all sides enabled, historically incorrect arenas, simply because that's what's available.
I'm still here.
Here's a question for everyone.
When you first heard of AH or any other WW2 air combat game, did you envision Spits vs Spits and Mustangs vs Mustangs?
No you didn't, Walter Mitty.
You were thinking Spits vs Messerschmidts and Hellcats vs Zero's.
So if the game has evolved to where the former is the most popular, then that's the way it should stay most of the time, but I doubt if it would spell the beginning of the end, if just one day a week, people had to try the latter.
Might become a pretty popular day.
No your wrong, I pictured planes dogfighting close enough to see the pilot. To me and if the lack of players in the AvA arena shows, it doesn't matter the "match-up", all that matters is the fight.
A strait AvA arena will never work, its just too restricting. Look at how many people fly the senarios, and FSOs. Why aren't they filling the AvA arena every night practicing against the rabble? I think it's because senarios and such are organized fights with plans and battle fronts and commanders giving orders, and people working together for a single goal. That is what the history buffs like, the immersion that all of that gives you. AvA arenas on the other hand have none of that. Its an all out do what you want to do type arena and that takes away a lot of that immersion.
CT looks to have been a heavy duty attempt to have that "immersion" the history guys like, but with enough "bells and whistles" to pull in the regular gamer. I personally don't think it would have worked, but for now we'll just have to wait until HTC pulls it of the shelf and finishes it up to see.
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Here's a question for everyone.
When you first heard of AH or any other WW2 air combat game, did you envision Spits vs Spits and Mustangs vs Mustangs?
Yes.
You were thinking Spits vs Messerschmidts and Hellcats vs Zero's.
No, don't know about you but I was only thinking of aerial combat using WW2 planes, couldn't care less if I was flying a P-38 against someone in a Spitfire or Zeke. If I wanted a historical matchup then I would join a scenario.
ack-ack
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I think it would be interesting to add, but I'd do something a little different than the OP is describing. I'd set it up so on Tuesday, one of the LW MAs would become your "TT", whereas the other would be the more historically correct arena.
That arena set up is already available on Tuesdays, and every other day of the week. If you want a historical matchup, fly the AvA arena. There is no need to create another AvA arena on Tuesdays that will only be populated because you're essentially forcing people to fly in there. If you think that popularity is going to make the numbers stay at Titanic Tuesday levels, you're mistaken. If that was the case then the AvA arena would rival the LW arenas every day of the week.
ack-ack
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OK, I give up, but I'll never know why the hell this ally vs ally, axis vs axis planeset idea is so popular.
I guess I am in a small minority that actually got into this kind of game because of an historical interest.
Maybe some day I'll have the kind of schedule that will allow me to play more scenarios.
<S>
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OK, I give up, but I'll never know why the hell this ally vs ally, axis vs axis planeset idea is so popular.
Because people want to fight, doesn't matter what plane they're fighting against. If you look at all of the online flight sims from the last 20 years, you'll see that it was the same in all of them. The most populated arenas were the ones that offered arena setups like the LW arena.
HiTech pointed out how that 'other' company went from an RPS and then Axis vs. Allies in their main arena and it resulted in a sharp decline of customers that the game has yet to recover from.
Honestly, the best thing that could be done is for the certain time lines in the planeset be fleshed out more. This would result in a greater selection of aircraft available for the AvA arena where more historically accurate weekly scenarios can take place. Then you'll see the population increase as a result.
I guess I am in a small minority that actually got into this kind of game because of an historical interest.
Maybe some day I'll have the kind of schedule that will allow me to play more scenarios.
<S>
Actually, you'll find that you're not in the minority in that part at all. There are a lot of us, quite a few actually, that started these games out of historical interest. I know that's why I started to play but having a historical interest in WW2 aerial combat and WW2 in general doesn't mean I have to fly in an AvA arena 24/7 or can't fly in an arena that allows Spitfires to fight Mustangs.
ack-ack
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I know that's why I started to play but having a historical interest in WW2 aerial combat and WW2 in general doesn't mean I have to fly in an AvA arena 24/7 or can't fly in an arena that allows Spitfires to fight Mustangs.
ack-ack
I understand, and never suggested a 24/7 everyday AVA only choice arena.
I suggested once a week, and have it your way the rest of the time.
People will always gravitate to the arena where most of the players are. I would like to try an AVA set-up, I'm sure others would too, but there is a finite amount of players and there aren't enough to populate a third arena on a daily basis.
However, if that was the set-up only one day a week, It would have a concentrating effect and might be surprisingly popular.
It would create a different dynamic than the AVA has ever seen by having a lot more different players than have ever tried it before.
Really, how can one know whether people would like it or not, when probably most of the player base have never even tried it because there is rarely enough people in there to make it worth checking out.
Again, I said ONCE A WEEK, not always.
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This begs the question....if its about forcing people into not doing what they want thats fine. How about we give them the option, a choice on which arena they want to fly.
Why cant we run a test next Tuesday? One LW arena is TT and the other arena is a small two sided LW AvA setup.
It would probably not compete head to head with TT but I think it would see okay numbers, more than MW or EW.
What say you HTC?
Strip
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Why cant we run a test next Tuesday? One LW arena is TT and the other arena is a small two sided LW AvA setup.
This test is already running every week. There is a TT and a small two sided AvA setup. Called "AvA".
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AvA so extremely unpopular you need to force ppl play there?
How cute :joystick:
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The fact is that people vote with their feet. They don't stay in an arena where they don't like the planeset, map or other variables. Even Midwar with its limited planeset gets more use day in day out than the AvA. That has to tell you something. Frankly I'm surprised HT has even left the AvA up as long as he has considering how little use it gets. Pretty dang tolerant if you ask me.
Changing the arena from the AvA to one of the late war's, without changing the setup, is not going to give you results that your looking for. Your trying to trick or force people into flying your way, and that is not going to work for long.
Once people realize the setup they won't go in there same as they don't go into the AvA now.
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This test is already running every week. There is a TT and a small two sided AvA setup. Called "AvA".
True, but TT is never capped.
I believe it's always going to be more about the numbers than the set-up.
I don't even consider the map, I always try to get into the orange arena, because that's where most of the players are.
The only time I go Blue is when Orange is capped and I am forced in there. I may find a fight and stick around a little while but I am always checking to see when I can get into the Orange arena.
I haven't been around here for 8 years, so I only know this set-up, and don't know when or if AVA was more popular and can't say why it fell out of favor if it was, but I doubt it was because people had a strong desire to pit allied planes against allied planes.
Maybe it was because people wanted to be able to fly any plane without changing countries.
I only know that I don't go in there now because there is never anyone to fly with or against.
I'm guessing that if you could magically have 40 to 50 players in there at all times, those numbers would build, but because people are creatures of habit and stick with what they know, it will never be jump started voluntarily.
It's a waste of space to even have it.
If it was only opened one day a week without forcing people in there, it still might see more play because anyone wanting to try it would be concentrated into that one day.
Sometimes you can have too many choices.
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AvA so extremely unpopular you need to force ppl play there?
How cute :joystick:
I'm curious how the AvA even got dragged into this. A lot of you who complain about the AvA being empty and complain about the 'forced' setups are forgetting that most of them are 'player' submitted. The AvA is going through a resurgence lately and is doing fine.
It's just a different kind of arena that offers a change from the MA game-play. It's essentially a FSO/SEA that is open 24/7. Most people don't like the fact they're forced to face an opponent in a) an aircraft they're not comfortable with and b) an aircraft setup that is not evenly matched.
Forcing players into a TT AvA arena is, like HiTech explained, a bad idea. I've seen it and its fails miserably - the numbers in the AvA are testament to this idea - it's not for everyone. But once you fly in the AvA, the MA is well, so MA-ish. :D
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OK, I give up, but I'll never know why the hell this ally vs ally, axis vs axis planeset idea is so popular.
Give it some thought, I am sure you can figure out the reason. And it is NOT because there are more people some place else.
Start with the knowledge most people have more fun in the LW, accept that , and then start asking yourself why that is. Start asking your self what in the AvA do people NOT like. What in the AvA is frustrating people. Do not blame people for the choice , but keep looking why they make that choice.
HiTech
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Give it some thought, I am sure you can figure out the reason. And it is NOT because there are more people some place else.
Start with the knowledge most people have more fun in the LW, accept that , and then start asking yourself why that is. Start asking your self what in the AvA do people NOT like. What in the AvA is frustrating people. Do not blame people for the choice , but keep looking why they make that choice.
HiTech
That would just be conjecture on my part as I don't have first hand knowledge of the dynamic in that arena, having never played there, because it is always empty when I log in, (a fact that does prove people prefer the Orange and Blue arenas)
It doesn't seem to me that there is a preponderance of people who prefer allied rides over axis or vice-versa, It seems pretty evenly split, which would indicate to me that the capability of each sides equipment isn't extremely "unequal" but I might be mistaken.
My best guess is that folks want the ability to fly any plane they want, at any time, without changing countries.
I certainly didn't mean to denigrate anyone for their choices.
The AvA is going through a resurgence lately and is doing fine.
That's great.
I do look when I log in, and if I ever see folks in AVA, you can bet I'll try it.
Sorry about the "force people in" suggestion. I guess I thought that a once a week "push" to get people to try it wasn't that "heavy-handed."
I'd just like to see a way to concentrate the numbers so that it would be more of an attraction.
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I believe it's always going to be more about the numbers than the set-up.
Why aren't we all still playing in EW arena? After the arena split that was the most popular arena for 1-2 weeks, with LW being virtually empty...
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Why aren't we all still playing in EW arena? After the arena split that was the most popular arena for 1-2 weeks, with LW being virtually empty...
Ok, I guess it isn't all about the numbers.
Look, if this set-up is the best it gets, than so be it. I'll still play.
I may have been out of line by suggesting limiting peoples options sometimes, but really that happens all the time, for good reason.
If you ran SEC, FSO, Snapshots, King of the Hill, AXRL all on the same day and same time, attendance of one or all would suffer. It wouldn't mean that any of them were unpopular.
It would just mean that the player base couldn't support them all at the same time, and would choose the one they prefer, probably FSO, and as the other numbers dwindled, even more would migrate to FSO.
So the majority prefers things the way they are. That's cool, I can accept that.
<S>
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Jimson, Your best argument would be to enlist squads in an AvA night.
HT, I would like the variety of early war, mid war and AvA if there was someone to fight once in a while. Any arena that loses critical mass will flounder.
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yes i will like to horde gang axis rides very much.
+1
bring it on limey! :noid
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Jimson, Your best argument would be to enlist squads in an AvA night.
HT, I would like the variety of early war, mid war and AvA if there was someone to fight once in a while. Any arena that loses critical mass will flounder.
X2^10
Which was my reason for asking for a seperate LWB AvA, which is NOT the same as the standard AvA arena.
Strip
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I was content to let this one die, but since it's at the top of the page and this won't bump it.............
Jimson, Your best argument would be to enlist squads in an AvA night.
That's a good idea, but I work nights, and if it's already sparsely populated at night, there's probably no way to get it going during the day.
X2^10
Which was my reason for asking for a seperate LWB AvA, which is NOT the same as the standard AvA arena.
Strip
(I hesitate to ask this because there are some, like Mister Fork who are doing good work in the AvA and I don't want to offend anyone, just tossing ideas around.)
If the current AvA was eliminated, and then another type of AvA set up was run once a week, like TT is (no forcing anyone in) Would the fact that it was a limited time only, concentrate more people in during that day?
Or do people just dislike that type of set-up and there is no hope of it ever being very popular?
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Sounds a lot like running a special event for which we have more then one special event arenas.
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Sounds a lot like running a special event for which we have more then one special event arenas.
In a way yes, but only as much of one as Titanic Tuesday is.
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I would like to see an axis v allies set up in the main arena once per week. Sort of like an ava titanic tuesday, with all main theaters represented on one map.
A central area representing Germany and the occupied territories, a large Island to the west of that representing the allied presence in the UK. To the north, an allied area representing Russia. To the east, an area representing the Japanese home land with island bases leading to an area representing Hawaii as a staging area for the Pacific fleet.
Of course, you would have to fudge distances, etc to make it playable
Enable only roughly appropriate planes and vehicles in the respective areas.
Only the center most, (maybe uncapturable) bases of your areas would have the newest rides enabled, but as you pushed further into enemy territory they would become progressively enabled at those bases too.
That would kind of simulate the timeline of the war and force you to capture some pacific islands before you could run heavy bombing raids into the Japanese homeland, for example.
You could still fly any plane you wanted but you'd pay a price by only being able to fly from certain areas and bases.
By the time you were striking the enemy heart, you could be bringing your newest rides against their's.
Yeah, you'd be giving players only one choice of main arena play, but it would be just one day a week.
that is why there is a AvA
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that is why there is a AvA
Right, but the availability of AvA seems to currently exceed the demand.
If you reduce the availability, might you concentrate the demand, and improve those numbers when it is open?