Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Skulls22 on December 10, 2009, 02:48:49 PM

Title: Submarines
Post by: Skulls22 on December 10, 2009, 02:48:49 PM
Why not?
Title: Re: Submarines
Post by: gyrene81 on December 10, 2009, 03:18:27 PM
Then you would need depth charges...to what end would submarines be used and would they be like PT boats where anyone could grab one?


 :joystick: I don't see a use for them in this game.
Title: Re: Submarines
Post by: The Fugitive on December 10, 2009, 03:37:50 PM
Do a search, HT has said he would like to add subs. Just not at this time
Title: Re: Submarines
Post by: USRanger on December 10, 2009, 03:56:49 PM
I can make it easy.  Our water is a flat 2-D plane.  To make it 3-D would require all sorts of new coding & a total overhaul of our new terrain system.  Plus, a sub is not going to catch a CV.  Would you really want to sit for a RL week in a sub waiting for the 1-in-a-1000 chance that a CV would happen to show up in the exact right place & time for one torp shot?  All that development time & effort would be better spent updating our old planes & getting new ones IMO.
Title: Re: Submarines
Post by: Crythos on December 10, 2009, 04:30:14 PM
New Subhunter/Anti Sub Planes needed Corvettes, Depth charges,mines, Seaplanes otherwise subs alone could unbalance carrier warfare as is but would be all good stuff.

Another current sub thread


http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,279422.0.html
Title: Re: Submarines
Post by: RaptorL on December 10, 2009, 06:15:06 PM
We will also need ships, and some planes equipped with sonar if this is implemented.
Title: Re: Submarines
Post by: fbEagle on December 10, 2009, 07:03:28 PM
How bout a U-boat. That takes the best of the 2. You get the diving and torpedo capability and also the deck gun, and "fast" surface running, but no they were never as fast as a cv. This has the potential to totally transform the game. :salute
Title: Re: Submarines
Post by: Skulls22 on December 10, 2009, 07:44:14 PM
How bout a U-boat. That takes the best of the 2. You get the diving and torpedo capability and also the deck gun, and "fast" surface running, but no they were never as fast as a cv. This has the potential to totally transform the game. :salute

That's what Im saying
Title: Re: Submarines
Post by: Enker on December 10, 2009, 10:25:47 PM
That's what Im saying
No you are not. You have said next to nothing in this thread. All you posted was:
Why not?
with a thread title of Submarines.
We are not able to read your mind. We want to have a thread started by someone who can assemble a coherent reason why feature/plane/gv/whatever XYZ should be added. Do not expect others to do the thinking for you.
Title: Re: Submarines
Post by: bravoa8 on December 10, 2009, 10:27:07 PM
I can make it easy.  Our water is a flat 2-D plane.  To make it 3-D would require all sorts of new coding & a total overhaul of our new terrain system.


Yep that would take alot of effort.
Title: Re: Submarines
Post by: LLogann on December 10, 2009, 10:40:31 PM
Actually....... Very little.  It's a question of reducing elavations and remapping "ground level" as say 2k.  Then zero balancing it so as 2k is zero altitude.

Now you have 2000 ft of ocean without having to do anything special.




Yep that would take alot of effort.
Title: Re: Submarines
Post by: bravoa8 on December 10, 2009, 10:42:33 PM
Actually....... Very little.  It's a question of reducing elavations and remapping "ground level" as say 2k.  Then zero balancing it so as 2k is zero altitude.

Now you have 2000 ft of ocean without having to do anything special.



I guess your right!
Title: Re: Submarines
Post by: Bino on December 11, 2009, 11:47:08 AM
Submerged type VII C U-boats typically cruised at about four knots.  And folks complain *now* about how long it takes to get to a fight!   :lol
Title: Re: Submarines
Post by: RaptorL on December 11, 2009, 01:28:01 PM
Sometimes a battle doesn't have to happen suddenly, in a submarine battle you need to be patient, and stealthy.
Title: Re: Submarines
Post by: Saxman on December 11, 2009, 01:47:26 PM
(http://supportyourlocalgunfighter.com/wp-content/uploads/Lauren-Holly-Down-Periscope.png)

Can I have her as my dive officer?
Title: Re: Submarines
Post by: AAJagerX on December 11, 2009, 03:28:11 PM
Subs would be cool if there were more types (and larger) battle groups/landing groups/supply convoys...  Don't see that happening for quite some time.  My .02
Title: Re: Submarines
Post by: ttflier on December 11, 2009, 04:13:03 PM
+1
Title: Re: Submarines
Post by: minke on December 11, 2009, 04:20:03 PM
+1

 spawning a Ko-hyoteki class sub from the pt spawn would be cool. Add a destroyer or light cruiser to the cv group equipped with depth charges and you got some intense fightin going on
Title: Re: Submarines
Post by: curry1 on December 11, 2009, 11:53:27 PM
Subs would be cool if there were more types (and larger) battle groups/landing groups/supply convoys...  Don't see that happening for quite some time.  My .02
Wow! you stole my avatar.
Title: Re: Submarines
Post by: Templar on December 12, 2009, 01:17:12 AM
+1.  Agreed that it would be a major addition and would require all sorts of additional balancing factors.  But innovation in the pursuit of the continuing evolution of this product is what hitech is all about.  As far as speeds and distances are concerned, its not a real issue when you consider that we have players driving tanks all the way to the new strat cities to blow them up with tank rounds.  And, if the slow and stealthy stalk is not your method.....fly a plane.  I see the submarine as a good means of port defense against carriers, especially when friendly air cover is too far out to be effective. In addition....I wanna get my hands on one of those japanese subs that transported and launched airplanes....can you say sneak attack? Muhahaha  :devil
Title: Re: Submarines
Post by: gyrene81 on December 12, 2009, 09:26:57 AM
Soooo...now some of you guys are thinking change the game name from Aces High to....what...WWII online? Some of these wishlist posts lately look like they belong in another game's forums.
Title: Re: Submarines
Post by: Templar on December 12, 2009, 10:31:45 PM
Hitech's stated intent is to develop and focus on one quality product for its customers. My understanding is that the wishlist forum for this game is supposed to provide Hitech with a professional and reasonable method for receiving the wishes of its customers while encouraging interaction amongst those customers in a respectful environment.  To access this forum and complain because people are actually using it for its intended purpose is disrespectful to the paying customers who actually want to interact with each other and the development team who set up this forum for exactly that intertaction.  With respect sir, Instead of complaining about the legitimate wishes of the customers on this forum why don't you join another discussion group?   :salute
Title: Re: Submarines
Post by: gyrene81 on December 12, 2009, 11:18:04 PM
With some small modicum of respect, I don't see a legitimate "wish" on this thread. If the water war part of this game was that big of a deal to HTC the existing ships would be a lot better modeled, and have a more detailed level of control. In light of the fact that neither is the case nor has it been in the long life of Aces High as well as its predecessors, it should be very clear to see, there is not and has not been any intent on increasing the viability of ship warfare in an air war game.

As "fun" as it may sound, think about all of the other factors that need to be worked on in this air war game before attempting to introduce a more complex sea war element (i.e. key planes that are missing as well as ground vehicles that would add more to the game than a submarine). And I guarantee that if such an element as a submarine were introduced, there would be a mass of complaints about what is wrong with the model and focus would be diverted from the very meat of this game, WWII Air Combat.


Thank you Templar...
Title: Re: Submarines
Post by: guncrasher on December 13, 2009, 02:12:35 AM
With some small modicum of respect, I don't see a legitimate "wish" on this thread. If the water war part of this game was that big of a deal to HTC the existing ships would be a lot better modeled, and have a more detailed level of control. In light of the fact that neither is the case nor has it been in the long life of Aces High as well as its predecessors, it should be very clear to see, there is not and has not been any intent on increasing the viability of ship warfare in an air war game.

As "fun" as it may sound, think about all of the other factors that need to be worked on in this air war game before attempting to introduce a more complex sea war element (i.e. key planes that are missing as well as ground vehicles that would add more to the game than a submarine). And I guarantee that if such an element as a submarine were introduced, there would be a mass of complaints about what is wrong with the model and focus would be diverted from the very meat of this game, WWII Air Combat.


Thank you Templar...

its a wish, think of it as the b29 thread.  would be cool to have but it aint gonna happen yet.  btw there's no such thing as legitimate  or illegitimate wishes.  a wish is a wish  :D.

semp
Title: Re: Submarines
Post by: gyrene81 on December 13, 2009, 02:49:11 AM
a wish is a wish  :D.

semp
Yeah I keep forgetting, it's Christmas time...  :banana:
Title: Re: Submarines
Post by: AWwrgwy on December 13, 2009, 04:32:37 AM
(http://supportyourlocalgunfighter.com/wp-content/uploads/Lauren-Holly-Down-Periscope.png)

Can I have her as my dive officer?

Quote
Hilda is dead, and here's something to note. You can't bury her at sea, 'cause her bosoms will float.


wrongway
Title: Re: Submarines
Post by: The Fugitive on December 13, 2009, 09:45:49 AM
With some small modicum of respect, I don't see a legitimate "wish" on this thread. If the water war part of this game was that big of a deal to HTC the existing ships would be a lot better modeled, and have a more detailed level of control. In light of the fact that neither is the case nor has it been in the long life of Aces High as well as its predecessors, it should be very clear to see, there is not and has not been any intent on increasing the viability of ship warfare in an air war game.

As "fun" as it may sound, think about all of the other factors that need to be worked on in this air war game before attempting to introduce a more complex sea war element (i.e. key planes that are missing as well as ground vehicles that would add more to the game than a submarine). And I guarantee that if such an element as a submarine were introduced, there would be a mass of complaints about what is wrong with the model and focus would be diverted from the very meat of this game, WWII Air Combat.


Thank you Templar...

Heaven forbid anyone suggest something you think is a waste of time. I know you have been on these boards for what.... over 6 months and you must know everything that has been posted and already deigned by HTC so please forgive me if I add my 2 cents.

HT said at a Q&A session at one of the cons that he would like to add submarines. I don't know, maybe it's because his father was a submariner. I don't know, but one way subs could be added and EFFECTIVE would be to have them the same as PTs and their spawns. Having a submarine spawn out and intercept an approaching fleet would be a fun element to add to the game. They could be added as soon as the art work could be done if they didn't have to submerge. And if you wanted to have them submersible, only a couple hundred feet would be needed because we don't have independent ships with depth charges to hunt them down.

As we all know PTs are a waste of time much like all of the vehicles that are added to Aces High as you say, so I'm sure it a real waste of time to wish for something like this.   
Title: Re: Submarines
Post by: gyrene81 on December 13, 2009, 10:53:28 AM
Fugitive, since I quit competitive gaming years ago and I work for a living...I don't go to cons so I woudn't know what HiTech said however many years ago. Regardless of how much of my life I've burned playing this game compared to you (as if it really makes any difference), you seem to be overlooking some very important points.

The introduction of submarines would create a large waterfall of subsequent changes that would have to be created and programmed at the same time. To maintain "balance" (and I hate using that word), for every element that is introduced an opposite balancing element would have to be introduced (i.e. add submarine, add depth charges and/or variable depth torpedoes, more controllable surface ships, additional suface vessels, and sonar). How many different country submarines should be introduced? Let's not forget the subsequent need for controllable destroyers and cruisers equipped with depth charges and torpedoes...how many different country surface vessels should be represented? While we're at it, toss some depth charges on the PT boats...but wait there aren't enough open mounting points on the existing PT boats so one or more gun emplacements would have to be removed or the loadouts in the hangar would have to be changeable. Let's not forget people would want to have external view of the submarine while it's underwater...and what's a submarine without a periscope? So toss in the programming of a functional periscope and 3D external view of the submarine then render the water in such a way that it doesn't kill the frame rates...then reprogram the existing water environment so that it's as 3 dimentional as the above water environment. Can't forget the interior of the sub...that's a lot more complex than any plane. Let's not forget the whines that would occur if the submarine were no more controllable than the current carriers...

Considering the plethora of missing aircraft and ground vehicles that have more impact on this game than ships do...where would you like the limited time and resources of the HTC programming staff to be focused...towable artillery...troop transports...sea warfare vessels...WWI aircraft...or the missing planes and ground vehicles that would benefit the several hundred other people who would prefer new planes and tanks over submarines?
Title: Re: Submarines
Post by: The Fugitive on December 13, 2009, 01:46:43 PM
Fugitive, since I quit competitive gaming years ago and I work for a living...I don't go to cons so I woudn't know what HiTech said however many years ago. Regardless of how much of my life I've burned playing this game compared to you (as if it really makes any difference), you seem to be overlooking some very important points.

The introduction of submarines would create a large waterfall of subsequent changes that would have to be created and programmed at the same time. To maintain "balance" (and I hate using that word), for every element that is introduced an opposite balancing element would have to be introduced (i.e. add submarine, add depth charges and/or variable depth torpedoes, more controllable surface ships, additional suface vessels, and sonar). How many different country submarines should be introduced? Let's not forget the subsequent need for controllable destroyers and cruisers equipped with depth charges and torpedoes...how many different country surface vessels should be represented? While we're at it, toss some depth charges on the PT boats...but wait there aren't enough open mounting points on the existing PT boats so one or more gun emplacements would have to be removed or the loadouts in the hangar would have to be changeable. Let's not forget people would want to have external view of the submarine while it's underwater...and what's a submarine without a periscope? So toss in the programming of a functional periscope and 3D external view of the submarine then render the water in such a way that it doesn't kill the frame rates...then reprogram the existing water environment so that it's as 3 dimentional as the above water environment. Can't forget the interior of the sub...that's a lot more complex than any plane. Let's not forget the whines that would occur if the submarine were no more controllable than the current carriers...

Considering the plethora of missing aircraft and ground vehicles that have more impact on this game than ships do...where would you like the limited time and resources of the HTC programming staff to be focused...towable artillery...troop transports...sea warfare vessels...WWI aircraft...or the missing planes and ground vehicles that would benefit the several hundred other people who would prefer new planes and tanks over submarines?



Those are things that would be needed if they were building a fully fleshed out Submarine game much as we would need tank killers, artillery, land mines and such if they were building a fully fleshed out tank game. But they are not. They would be adding a small side feature to add in building another opportunity for combat. Adding a sub that was nothing more than a PT boat would give the 5 inchers something else to shoot at, another way for people to shoot at ships, with the deck gun they could shoot at aircraft that was trying to bomb them strait off the CV. All of this just from adding a new "skin" to the PT boats. No one would be fool enough to do searchs for shipping to sink as there are not enough in the game anyway, because its NOT a sea game.

The main focus is aircraft, but HTC is always twisting things to add another element to create combat.
Title: Re: Submarines
Post by: gyrene81 on December 13, 2009, 01:53:05 PM
See...now I get your point of view...  :aok  Very interesting idea...submarines as surface vessels...slow as molasses in January too.
Title: Re: Submarines
Post by: Templar on December 13, 2009, 02:46:06 PM
I think Fugitive has some valid points.  :salute. Also, I think we can all agree that this stopped being a "pure" aircraft game when manned ground vehicles were introduced.  The submarine element is part of the natural development of an (admittedly) secondary aspect of the game-naval air warfare.  It isn't a pure air combat game anymore. That is our "reality" in this game world.  I'm glad to see that this thread returned to an actual discussion of the merits of the wish for sumarines.  :rock.  Now having said that, I think tht using the japanese submarines that were designed to transport and launch aircraft would be interesting!  You could drive the sub to a launch point of your choosing (avoiding the enemy carrier group hopefully). Surface, then switch to the airplane (same function button as switching to a bomber turret) and launch the airplane.  The submarine is discarded and sinks back down to disappear after launch.  The submarine would have torpedoes and be able to act like a normal sub during transit to the launch point....   :airplane: