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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Sundowner on December 30, 2009, 09:16:37 AM

Title: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: Sundowner on December 30, 2009, 09:16:37 AM
Looks like the Russians might be going after Apophis.

Regards,
Sun

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: December 30, 2009

Filed at 8:47 a.m. ET

MOSCOW (AP) -- Russia is considering sending a spacecraft to a large asteroid to knock it off its path and prevent a possible collision with Earth, the head of the country's space agency said Wednesday.

Anatoly Perminov said the space agency will hold a meeting soon to assess a mission to Apophis, telling Golos Rossii radio that it would invite NASA, the European Space Agency, the Chinese space agency and others to join the project once it is finalized.

When the 270-meter (885-foot) asteroid was first discovered in 2004, astronomers estimated the chances of it smashing into Earth in its first flyby in 2029 were as high as 1-in-37, but have since lowered their estimate......

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/12/30/world/AP-EU-Russia-Asteroid-Encounter.html?_r=1
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: Strip on December 30, 2009, 09:19:54 AM
Now would be the time....

Even a small gravity tractor would be sufficient to assure no impact especially with this much warning.

Strip
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: trax1 on December 30, 2009, 09:29:59 AM
Well even though the odds of it hitting are low, there is a very small window, known as a "keyhole", that the asteroid could pass through on it's first pass in 2029 that would make it hit on it's next pass in 2036, so why even take the risk.

I think another good ides I heard about was attaching a solar sail to the asteroid and the Sun would slowly push it off course.
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: Angus on December 30, 2009, 10:08:23 AM
That means you have to hit it anyway.
I think that has already been done by the way. (Another one)
So, for the effort, just nook the thing :D
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: Dragon on December 30, 2009, 10:11:27 AM
NOOK IT, get these guys on the phone, quick.


(http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo82/bzavasnik/Armageddon.jpg)
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: Saurdaukar on December 30, 2009, 10:13:14 AM
Well even though the odds of it hitting are low, there is a very small window, known as a "keyhole", that the asteroid could pass through on it's first pass in 2029 that would make it hit on it's next pass in 2036, so why even take the risk.

I forget the actual term for it... "orbital something" but I believe you are correct.

Essentially, I think that imagining water going down a drain pipe in the shower is akin to the genuine concern.  Eventually, the gravitational pull of both objects will bring their respective orbits together; ending in a collision.  I suppose, mathematically, this will be true of all matter in the universe.  

I think we should just send a bunch of oil drillers and that cop from New York.


EDIT:  Orbital Resonance.
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on December 30, 2009, 10:53:13 AM
Knowing the russians the project will be a catastriphic failure that will guide the asteroid towards earth not away from it.
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: Angus on December 30, 2009, 12:19:32 PM
Well, the Russians picked up samples from the moon well before Humans were there....
And they're basically promoting this as a project between i.e. "NASA, the European Space Agency, the Chinese space agency and others"
BTW, the biggest H-bomb ever dropped from an aircraft was from the Russkies. The crater was quite something. The biggest man-made explosion was that one.  Nice, 5 miles fireball diameter :D
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/34/Tsar01.jpg)
And aren't they the biggest launchers (sattellites etc) today??
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on December 30, 2009, 12:52:49 PM
Well, the Russians picked up samples from the moon well before Humans were there....
And they're basically promoting this as a project between i.e. "NASA, the European Space Agency, the Chinese space agency and others"
BTW, the biggest H-bomb ever dropped from an aircraft was from the Russkies. The crater was quite something. The biggest man-made explosion was that one.  Nice, 5 miles fireball diameter :D
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/34/Tsar01.jpg)
And aren't they the biggest launchers (sattellites etc) today??


Lol if you knew their track record..
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: Raptor on December 30, 2009, 01:17:34 PM
And aren't they the biggest launchers (sattellites etc) today??
I believe Brazil is. They have an unmanned satellite launching program so it is much easier to put satellites in orbit than with manned crews.
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: trax1 on December 30, 2009, 02:44:13 PM
I believe Brazil is. They have an unmanned satellite launching program so it is much easier to put satellites in orbit than with manned crews.
Well we have unmanned satellite launching programs too, in fact a majority of the satellites we put in orbit is done with unmanned launchers.
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: Strip on December 30, 2009, 02:48:23 PM
Manned missions represent less than 1% of all space flights.....
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: AirFlyer on December 30, 2009, 03:26:06 PM
Well, the Russians picked up samples from the moon well before Humans were there....
And they're basically promoting this as a project between i.e. "NASA, the European Space Agency, the Chinese space agency and others"
BTW, the biggest H-bomb ever dropped from an aircraft was from the Russkies. The crater was quite something. The biggest man-made explosion was that one.  Nice, 5 miles fireball diameter :D
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/34/Tsar01.jpg)
And aren't they the biggest launchers (sattellites etc) today??


Wasn't that a 100 megaton bomb?
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: Vulcan on December 30, 2009, 03:40:45 PM
Whats the asteroid composed of, would it be worth mining?
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: BoilerDown on December 30, 2009, 04:04:58 PM
While its almost certainly unnecessary, we (as a species) will learn a lot by trying.  It'll be good to see the Russians take the lead on this, since Nasa doesn't have the funding to attempt it themselves.  I hope they get the international support they need to get it off the ground.
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: BoilerDown on December 30, 2009, 04:13:19 PM
Wasn't that a 100 megaton bomb?

Well that picture he linked is shown here:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tsar01.jpg .

So we can pretty easily guess which bomb he's talking about. Although I don't see the relevance to the discussion at hand.
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: trax1 on December 30, 2009, 09:17:04 PM
Wasn't that a 100 megaton bomb?
Well the bomb design was for 100 megatons, but the one detonated was 50 megatons.
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: Raptor on December 30, 2009, 10:27:59 PM
Well we have unmanned satellite launching programs too, in fact a majority of the satellites we put in orbit is done with unmanned launchers.
Wasn't sure, but I know the one in Brazil is larger because they get business launching satelites from corporations in Europe as well as some in US. Something about it being easier to launch from near equator
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: trax1 on December 30, 2009, 11:28:43 PM
Wasn't sure, but I know the one in Brazil is larger because they get business launching satelites from corporations in Europe as well as some in US. Something about it being easier to launch from near equator
Yeah it is easier at the equator, thats why theres even a company called "Sea Launch" that has a floating launch pad to launch satellites from the equator.
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: Oleg on December 31, 2009, 01:30:34 AM
Knowing the russians the project will be a catastriphic failure that will guide the asteroid towards earth not away from it.

Well, may be they decided there are no reason for USA to exist after 2029  :rolleyes:

btw, i wouldnt take that announcement too seriously.
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: Sombra on December 31, 2009, 01:48:26 AM
Well, the Russians picked up samples from the moon well before Humans were there....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna_programme

Quote
Another major achievement of the Luna programme, with Luna 16, Luna 20 and Luna 24 spacecrafts, was the ability to collect samples of lunar soil and return them to Earth, by 1970. The program returned 0.326 kg of lunar samples. The Luna missions were the first space-exploration sample return missions to rely solely on advanced robotics.

Luna 15, also designed to return soil samples from the lunar surface, holds the significance of undergoing its mission at the same time as the historic Apollo 11 mission. Arguably a last-ditch attempt to steal thunder from the potential American success, it would have returned lunar samples to Earth before the Apollo astronauts could do so. However, Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin were already on the lunar surface when Luna 15 began its descent, and the spacecraft crashed into a mountain minutes later.
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: sntslilhlpr6601 on December 31, 2009, 07:09:55 AM
While its almost certainly unnecessary, we (as a species) will learn a lot by trying.  It'll be good to see the Russians take the lead on this, since Nasa doesn't have the funding to attempt it themselves.  I hope they get the international support they need to get it off the ground.


Man, and I was so planning on being in Europe to watch this thing fly by us in 2029...

I guess you're right though, though its most certainly unnecessary it'll be a good learning experience. Because eventually one will come right for us...
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: texasmom on December 31, 2009, 07:24:19 AM
Man, and I was so planning on being in Europe to watch this thing fly by us in 2029...

I guess you're right though, though its most certainly unnecessary it'll be a good learning experience. Because eventually one will come right for us...

Why Europe?
Is there some trajectory model that says Europe is the only place that will have the good view?
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: tassos on December 31, 2009, 07:30:04 AM
 (http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/5000/Canadian-Astronaut--5176.jpg)
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: ROX on January 01, 2010, 12:28:31 PM
What are they going to send up?   300 Tons of Preperation H?



ROX

Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: Angus on January 02, 2010, 04:51:31 AM
The idea being worked with is some kind of a solar-sail, which would divert the asteroid away. I don't understand why the heck they just simply don't:
1 Nook the thing out of the path.
2 Nook the thing down to dust.

The asteroid (or pile of rocks rather) is less than a qurtermile x quartermile. The fireball of the biggest H-bomb detonated was 5 miles across.
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: nirvana on January 02, 2010, 04:57:50 AM
The idea being worked with is some kind of a solar-sail, which would divert the asteroid away. I don't understand why the heck they just simply don't:
1 Nook the thing out of the path.
2 Nook the thing down to dust.

The asteroid (or pile of rocks rather) is less than a qurtermile x quartermile. The fireball of the biggest H-bomb detonated was 5 miles across.

I concur.
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: grizz441 on January 02, 2010, 05:34:18 AM
It's a good idea for the international community to get the ball rolling on these types of missions.  Even if we fail here, the knowledge gained will help for future missions where failure is not an option...
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: Angus on January 02, 2010, 07:57:25 AM
Completely agree.
Anyway, is there any information about those"solar sails"?
And how does a nuke work in the voids of space?
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on January 02, 2010, 08:14:29 AM
Try to nuke it in space and probably EMP the whole planet as a result. :)

Ooopps!
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: grizz441 on January 02, 2010, 05:42:44 PM
You also have to keep in mind the risks of launching nuclear arsenal into space.  What if there is a launch disaster?  Even if the nukes didn't detonate over earth's soil, there would be a serious radiation problem.  If there are more effective solutions that can be used when the asteroid is far enough away then we shouldn't even consider nukes.  I bet however, if an unseen asteroid was suddenly on a collision course with us in the matter of months, we'd use nukes.
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: Strip on January 02, 2010, 05:48:31 PM
The idea being worked with is some kind of a solar-sail, which would divert the asteroid away. I don't understand why the heck they just simply don't:
1 Nook the thing out of the path.
2 Nook the thing down to dust.

The asteroid (or pile of rocks rather) is less than a qurtermile x quartermile. The fireball of the biggest H-bomb detonated was 5 miles across.

A nuclear weapon is mainly a thermal energy device, if the bomb did anything it would turn one object into many. Contrary to what Hollywood would have you believe nuking an asteroid is a very bad idea.

Strip
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: fudgums on January 02, 2010, 05:51:42 PM
A nuclear weapon is mainly a thermal energy device, if the bomb did anything it would turn one object into many. Contrary to what Hollywood would have you believe nuking an asteroid is a very bad idea.

Strip

I have an asteroid inside of me atm, I wish I had a nuke to put it in smaller pieces.
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: mensa180 on January 02, 2010, 06:07:40 PM
I suppose, mathematically, this will be true of all matter in the universe. 

I don't think so, perhaps for objects with trajectories in space that will put each other close enough and long enough for gravity to win over inertia, but I was under the impression that our universe is still expanding at the rate it was when the 'big bang' occured, and everything is getting farther away from each other.

Multiple theories about how the universe will end, pretty neat stuff, too bad I won't be around to see what really does is :D.



OR WILL I?

edit:  Imagine the epic view from the ISS of 5 different countries launching a toejamload of nukes at once at some rock in space.
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: Gh0stFT on January 02, 2010, 06:21:21 PM
Try to nuke it in space and probably EMP the whole planet as a result. :)

Ooopps!

we dont have other choices, try mounting a sail on someting that is 28000 mph fast, not easy if not possible with our technologie.
At October 23, 2009 a fireball was seen over Indonesia, it was an asteroid asuming an estimated size of about 5-10 meters.
The blast was in the 10 to 50 kT range. Now Imagine Apophis with his 320m.
NASA estimates the energy from this particular asteroid (Apophis) to be roughly the same as if 65,000 nuclear bombs were dropped on us.
Sorry but i doubt the energie from some of our nukes would change here anything ;)

try http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/impacteffects/ (http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/impacteffects/) just for fun.
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: Denholm on January 02, 2010, 06:44:42 PM
I'm somewhat certain my assumption is incorrect, yet wouldn't the shock-wave of a nuclear explosion in space destabilize the orbit of planets and more asteroids? If so, the chance of more asteroids altering their course toward Earth could be the reason for not launching a nuclear weapon to resolve this issue.
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: Strip on January 02, 2010, 06:49:14 PM
A 1.4 Megaton bomb was detonated at an altitude of about 250 miles over Hawaii in a test code named Starfish Prime. High energy particles trapped by the magneto sphere knocked out approximately 1/3 of the satellites orbiting at lower altitudes. It is theorized that there is a particularly vulnerable area where nuclear weapons can create man made Van Allen Belts. It would not be unrealistic to assume a few low level detonations could wipe out most of the satellites in low earth orbits. Hawaii also fell victim to EMP, approximately 300 street lights went out, alarms set off and power surges occurred in the electrical grid.

In short, anything inside or between the Van Allen Belts could be particularly nasty, however, they would only pose a threat to material. Beyond the Van Allen Belt the effects would be rather diminished owing to the blast effects being diminished over such a vast scale. Besides almost any viable nuclear deflection shot would likely occur well outside of the moons orbit.

Strip



Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: grizz441 on January 02, 2010, 06:53:12 PM
I'm somewhat certain my assumption is incorrect, yet wouldn't the shock-wave of a nuclear explosion in space destabilize the orbit of planets and more asteroids? If so, the chance of more asteroids altering their course toward Earth could be the reason for not launching a nuclear weapon to resolve this issue.

I'd have a hard time fathoming any man made nuclear blast affecting any planetary orbits or asteroids other than the one we are focusing on.  It would be so negligible I'd compare it to the effects a fly splattering on your windshield would have on slowing your car down.
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: Strip on January 02, 2010, 07:00:10 PM
I'm somewhat certain my assumption is incorrect, yet wouldn't the shock-wave of a nuclear explosion in space destabilize the orbit of planets and more asteroids? If so, the chance of more asteroids altering their course toward Earth could be the reason for not launching a nuclear weapon to resolve this issue.

Even the largest nuclear weapon ever devised would be like a grain of sand impacting a skyscraper. That is detonating it on the surface, anything beyond couple hundred miles would render the blast hardly detectable except for high energy particles. Nuclear weapons are mainly thermal radiation devices, blast effects represent a relatively small portion of the total energies involved.

Strip
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: Delirium on January 02, 2010, 07:06:03 PM
I'd have a hard time fathoming any man made nuclear blast affecting any planetary orbits or asteroids other than the one we are focusing on. 

Even the smallest amount of deviation at the earliest possible moment would equate to a very large course change over a long period. For example, if you roll a marble down a driveway and change the course of the marble 0.5cm at the very beginning it could mean the difference of a few meters at the end (depending on the length of the driveway).

The problem is hitting a moving target with rocket designed for larger targets (like cities) is incredibly difficult. The closer the asteroid is the easier it will be hit but the deviation in course would be lessened the longer they wait.

You don't need to vaporize the asteroid, just change the course of it.
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: Strip on January 02, 2010, 07:21:23 PM
The problem is hitting a moving target with rocket designed for larger targets (like cities) is incredibly difficult. The closer the asteroid is the easier it will be hit but the deviation in course would be lessened the longer they wait.

Our current inventory is not designed to hit cities, they are designed to have 50% accuracy of 100 feet.

Strip
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: Meatwad on January 02, 2010, 08:24:30 PM
Get WOPR to calculate it


"I want to play Global Thermonuclear Asteroids"
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: mensa180 on January 03, 2010, 12:32:02 AM
A 1.4 Megaton bomb was detonated at an altitude of about 250 miles over Hawaii in a test code named Starfish Prime. High energy particles trapped by the magneto sphere knocked out approximately 1/3 of the satellites orbiting at lower altitudes. It is theorized that there is a particularly vulnerable area where nuclear weapons can create man made Van Allen Belts. It would not be unrealistic to assume a few low level detonations could wipe out most of the satellites in low earth orbits. Hawaii also fell victim to EMP, approximately 300 street lights went out, alarms set off and power surges occurred in the electrical grid.

In short, anything inside or between the Van Allen Belts could be particularly nasty, however, they would only pose a threat to material. Beyond the Van Allen Belt the effects would be rather diminished owing to the blast effects being diminished over such a vast scale. Besides almost any viable nuclear deflection shot would likely occur well outside of the moons orbit.

Strip





I thought the space between the Van Allen Belts cleared itself of radiation naturally, speculation is due to lightning?
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: Strip on January 03, 2010, 12:41:05 AM
I am unsure about the exact process, even so high energy particles could damage electronics before any natural dissipation had a chance to take place.

Strip
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: texasmom on January 03, 2010, 01:05:43 AM
Get WOPR to calculate it
"I want to play Global Thermonuclear Asteroids"
:lol
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: Flipperk on January 03, 2010, 01:37:18 AM
PLease refer to this guy for your questions:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-ReuLZ2quc&feature=video_response



and then go to this link for a description if ^^^^^^ this fails


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaW4Ol3_M1o&feature=video_response
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: sntslilhlpr6601 on January 03, 2010, 06:28:31 AM
Why Europe?
Is there some trajectory model that says Europe is the only place that will have the good view?

Yes, I think it was Eastern Europe and Western Asia last time I checked. This is such a rare event, its not even once in a lifetime- its once in a millennia at best. ...And I'm such a geek that I would totally take a vacation just to see it. :)

PLease refer to this guy for your questions:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-ReuLZ2quc&feature=video_response



and then go to this link for a description if ^^^^^^ this fails


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaW4Ol3_M1o&feature=video_response

I like that guy. I've seen him on the Science channel quite a bit. He's one of the few scientists that is good at explaining things to non-laymen. That gravity tether is probably what we'll do if we are going to try to alter its course. As badass and manly as it would be to use a nuke to deflect it, as mentioned earlier it would only be an option for a last resort due to the dangers of it.
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: Penguin on January 03, 2010, 11:12:25 AM
The idea being worked with is some kind of a solar-sail, which would divert the asteroid away. I don't understand why the heck they just simply don't:
1 Nook the thing out of the path.
2 Nook the thing down to dust.

The asteroid (or pile of rocks rather) is less than a qurtermile x quartermile. The fireball of the biggest H-bomb detonated was 5 miles across.

The second point would require a bomb so large that not even our most powerful rockets could move it.  The bomb that I described would only knock it into pieces.  That would shotgun-blast the earth with huge fragments weighing hundreds of tons. 

The thrid point is a non sequitur.  The Tsar-Bomba was small enough to be dropped from an airplane.  Also, you are comparing a kinetic impact and a thermonuclear detonation, they are like apples and oranges.  If you were to compare it to something like the largest asteroid to ever hit Earth, then you could draw a conclusion.

-Penguin   
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: grizz441 on January 03, 2010, 04:53:07 PM
The thrid point is a non sequitur.  The Tsar-Bomba was small enough to be dropped from an airplane.  Also, you are comparing a kinetic impact and a thermonuclear detonation, they are like apples and oranges.  If you were to compare it to something like the largest asteroid to ever hit Earth, then you could draw a conclusion.
-Penguin   

I think his point was that a nuke's kinetic impact would encompass the entire surface area of the asteroid.  Whether or not it would break it up would be issue 1.  I don't really know if I buy the whole asteroid pieces argument.  I'd rather be hit by 10 1/10th mile asteroids than a 1 mile asteroid.
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: mensa180 on January 03, 2010, 04:58:35 PM
Yeah that guy was on the show where they talked about pluto no longer being considered a planet.  My favorite science channel dude has to be Dr. Michio Kaku.

edit:  Bill Nye gets an honorable mention :D.
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: DrDea on January 03, 2010, 05:01:59 PM
 Looks to me like the Global Warming crowd is losing ground and the Russians found a new world ending problem to milk every country for in order to <sigh> save us all.
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: mensa180 on January 03, 2010, 05:15:29 PM
Looks to me like the Russians are trying to perfect techniques currently being devised so as to avoid future problems, I don't think they are trying to do anything like what you are suggesting at all.

The cold war is over, it's OK for us to be friends with the Russians now :). 
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: DrDea on January 03, 2010, 05:40:43 PM
 Got nothing against the Russians. I just see them blasting that roid and sending it right into the planet.
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: Saurdaukar on January 03, 2010, 11:45:52 PM
I don't think so, perhaps for objects with trajectories in space that will put each other close enough and long enough for gravity to win over inertia, but I was under the impression that our universe is still expanding at the rate it was when the 'big bang' occured, and everything is getting farther away from each other.

Multiple theories about how the universe will end, pretty neat stuff, too bad I won't be around to see what really does is :D.

Its been awhile since I was keeping up with this stuff frequently but, last I knew, the rate of expansion was actually increasing.  

While this appears to suggest that the 'Big Freeze' theory may hold more water than the 'Big Crunch' theory, the truth, I think, is that we really haven't the slightest idea what will happen.  

The increasing rate of acceleration can not be mathematically explained unless you reach elbow-deep into the bucket of theoretical physics because the behavior of visible matter is not consistent with the sum of its mass.  Cosmologists coined terms like 'Dark Matter' and 'Dark Energy' and used them to force explanations out of our current level of understanding.

You're absolutely right - it's REALLY neat stuff - and I believe that is so because problems like the above serve as a constant reminder of just how much we have yet to learn.  
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on January 04, 2010, 08:08:05 AM
Got nothing against the Russians. I just see them blasting that roid and sending it right into the planet.

Yep not like they haven't had outrageous plans before like trying to change the flow direction of rivers of Ural using thermonuclear explosions. Never mind the vast scale enviromental disaster that would have caused had they managed to finish it..
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: KgB on January 04, 2010, 03:19:48 PM
Yep not like they haven't had outrageous plans before like trying to change the flow direction of rivers of Ural using thermonuclear explosions. Never mind the vast scale enviromental disaster that would have caused had they managed to finish it..

Have you ever tried to consentrate on Russian space achievements? You know...... Tsiolkovsky, sputnik, Gagarin, Leonov,Buran....... and it doesn't impress you? You must be "old school", that fallout shelter ignorance is written all over the place :D
 
 
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: Strip on January 04, 2010, 03:39:59 PM
Have you ever balanced their space program success with the same programs massive failures?

Strip
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: Angus on January 04, 2010, 04:20:21 PM
Who has had the most casualties regarding manned launches in the last 20 years or so?
Who has had astronauts staying the most time in space?

NASA

RUSSIA

Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: Strip on January 04, 2010, 04:36:22 PM
NASA has completed more manned launches with far greater capabilities, the Russians Soyuz space capsule is basically a taxi cab service.

Per launch the death rate sways to Russia....

Strip
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: Angus on January 04, 2010, 04:50:58 PM
Strip, looking at the SOYUZ program the last fatal accidents were on a return flight in 1971. (3 dead). That is actually before the Shuttles of NASA started. However the Shuttles have launched quite many times.
So, since the Shuttle started, take it or leave it, the Russkies with their Soyuz were more reliable.
The data however is so small in numbers that a singel SOYUZ accident would turn the tables.
Anyway, just wanted to point out that the Russkies are nowhere near medieval compared to the USA in terms of space launch and travel.
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: Strip on January 04, 2010, 04:53:06 PM
It terms of total capability they are, its widely believed they cant even retrieve a satellite....

Take away MIR and what have the Russians done in manned flight?

Strip
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: Angus on January 04, 2010, 05:06:00 PM
They never had a program to retrive a satellite.
Regarding Manned flight and MIR (Which did not fall on our heads like Skylab), well, they were the first. Not sure with spacewalk, and they never put a man on the moon.
Taking away MIR is like taking away the biggest part of the cake. They ran the thing, did lots of dockings etc, and quite some time ago.
I hardly belive me being the one here to pick the Russian side, there must be someone else....
However, I just belive their achivements should not be ignored, let alone mocked as if they were amateurs.
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: mensa180 on January 04, 2010, 05:21:33 PM
Its been awhile since I was keeping up with this stuff frequently but, last I knew, the rate of expansion was actually increasing. 

While this appears to suggest that the 'Big Freeze' theory may hold more water than the 'Big Crunch' theory, the truth, I think, is that we really haven't the slightest idea what will happen. 

The increasing rate of acceleration can not be mathematically explained unless you reach elbow-deep into the bucket of theoretical physics because the behavior of visible matter is not consistent with the sum of its mass.  Cosmologists coined terms like 'Dark Matter' and 'Dark Energy' and used them to force explanations out of our current level of understanding.

You're absolutely right - it's REALLY neat stuff - and I believe that is so because problems like the above serve as a constant reminder of just how much we have yet to learn. 

Good post, I love this stuff, I live on the science channel. 
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: Strip on January 04, 2010, 05:28:36 PM
I wont mock the Russians efforts, but they are elementary compared to what NASA has done. MIR was a death trap that thankfully never got sprung, the engineering behind it was hap hazard at best. The interior was cluttered with control and life support cables run through airlocks. The same airlocks that were to be shut in case of a depressurization emergency. By your own admission MIR was a large portion of the Russian efforts, NASA would have never let the thing launch. The only reason Skylab fell was due to two years of delays in the Space Shuttle program and rather unexpected solar activity.

Strip

Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: KgB on January 04, 2010, 06:26:29 PM
I wont mock the Russians efforts, but they are elementary compared to what NASA has done. MIR was a death trap that thankfully never got sprung, the engineering behind it was hap hazard at best. The interior was cluttered with control and life support cables run through airlocks. The same airlocks that were to be shut in case of a depressurization emergency. By your own admission MIR was a large portion of the Russian efforts, NASA would have never let the thing launch. The only reason Skylab fell was due to two years of delays in the Space Shuttle program and rather unexpected solar activity.

Strip



"elementary compared to what NASA has done"? Well screw me what have you been reading.

Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: Widewing on January 04, 2010, 09:16:27 PM
Why spend a huge sum of money and effort on this?

All they really need to do is project an image of Rosie O'Donnell at the asteroid. Surely, it will change direction.

Up in Maine, it keeps the Black Bears out of the garbage cans.

(http://www.bittenandbound.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/wenn2459497.jpg)


My regards,

Widewing
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: Demetrious on January 05, 2010, 06:02:16 AM
However, I just belive their achivements should not be ignored, let alone mocked as if they were amateurs.

What achievements? I have a book on the shelf behind me titled "Dragonfly," which documents in great detail how MIR was a deathtrap that was constantly falling apart, and how they managed to ram the station with their own resupply shuttle. The Buran (their version of the Space Shuttle,) was destroyed when the hanger it was stored in collapsed due to lack of maintenance. This is the post-Soviet Russia, and they don't have the money to maintain their surface Navy, much less launch grand, highly complex extra-planetary endeavors.

As for their "achievements," you don't hear much about all the cosmonauts who died in the attempt- no, they only published their successes. Wikipedia "lost cosmonauts" sometime.

Honestly, the whole idea of Russia "leading the charge" to "save the earth from an EVIL ASTEROID" Armageddon is so laughable that it's clearly another attempt by Putin to foster the image of RUSSIA STRONG.

(http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/9648/1255821122688.png)

Remember when they announced that they were returning to 24/7 Tu-95 patrols? Anybody who knew anything about planes was laughing like mad that day. Ah, yes, if only it was 1955 again and ICBMS hadn't made standing nuclear bomber patrols irrelevant! But no matter, RUSSIA STRONG.

Why spend a huge sum of money and effort on this?

All they really need to do is project an image of Rosie O'Donnell at the asteroid. Surely, it will change direction.

Up in Maine, it keeps the Black Bears out of the garbage cans.

I laughed hard enough to wake up the cat, good job.
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on January 05, 2010, 07:26:12 AM
(http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/9648/1255821122688.png)

That picture is obviously fake, look at the lighting on Putin and the rest of the picture.
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: DrDea on January 05, 2010, 09:48:18 AM
 Why Rosie? Rosanne Barr would just cause it to explode into a dust cloud.
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: Yossarian on January 05, 2010, 10:24:47 AM
It terms of total capability they are, its widely believed they cant even retrieve a satellite....

Take away MIR and what have the Russians done in manned flight?

Strip

Don't forget that the core module of the ISS was designed, built and launched by the Russians.

What achievements? I have a book on the shelf behind me titled "Dragonfly," which documents in great detail how MIR was a deathtrap that was constantly falling apart, and how they managed to ram the station with their own resupply shuttle. The Buran (their version of the Space Shuttle,) was destroyed when the hanger it was stored in collapsed due to lack of maintenance. This is the post-Soviet Russia, and they don't have the money to maintain their surface Navy, much less launch grand, highly complex extra-planetary endeavors.

As for their "achievements," you don't hear much about all the cosmonauts who died in the attempt- no, they only published their successes. Wikipedia "lost cosmonauts" sometime.

I think when the resupply vehicle rammed the station, that was more a mistake, rather than the pure stupidity you seem to imply.  Also, 4 cosmonauts have been lost on Russian space missions.  I looked at that article on Wikipedia, and it seemed to be a bunch of conspiracy theories, much like the Moon landing conspiracy theory.
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: Strip on January 05, 2010, 10:30:44 AM
Its pretty well known that the Russians have tried to hide deaths of cosmonauts before though....
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: IrishOne on January 05, 2010, 12:53:09 PM
Why spend a huge sum of money and effort on this?

All they really need to do is project an image of Rosie O'Donnell at the asteroid. Surely, it will change direction.

Up in Maine, it keeps the Black Bears out of the garbage cans.


My regards,

Widewing
*BARF* god she's hot...... :eek: :bolt:
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: Angus on January 06, 2010, 02:47:02 AM
How about the Irish doing it :D
After all, they had a go at the moon ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nfz9O_mSY1U

Enjoy....
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: IrishOne on January 06, 2010, 07:53:14 AM
 :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl  sign me up to pilot Guiness III  :rock
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: KgB on January 06, 2010, 03:56:10 PM
What achievements? I have a book on the shelf behind me titled "Dragonfly," which documents in great detail how MIR was a deathtrap that was constantly falling apart, and how they managed to ram the station with their own resupply shuttle. The Buran (their version of the Space Shuttle,) was destroyed when the hanger it was stored in collapsed due to lack of maintenance. This is the post-Soviet Russia, and they don't have the money to maintain their surface Navy, much less launch grand, highly complex extra-planetary endeavors.

......
Get a grip on your a.d.d. and focus on space program.
Pioneers of the astronautic theory
First human-made object to orbit the Earth
First human in outer space and the first to orbit the Earth
First human to conduct a space walk
First woman in space
First unmanned shuttle spaceflight
You right, you can hardly call it "achievements"
P.S. To avoid future moronic accusations do a little research. Buran was destroyed in 2002 in Kazakhstan, it wasn't in Russia. You can blame Borat for that one.
Title: Re: Russia May Send Spacecraft to Knock Away Asteroid
Post by: Yossarian on January 06, 2010, 04:27:08 PM
Get a grip on your a.d.d. and focus on space program.
Pioneers of the astronautic theory
First human-made object to orbit the Earth
First human in outer space and the first to orbit the Earth
First human to conduct a space walk
First woman in space
First unmanned shuttle spaceflight
You right, you can hardly call it "achievements"
P.S. To avoid future moronic accusations do a little research. Buran was destroyed in 2002 in Kazakhstan, it wasn't in Russia. You can blame Borat for that one.

QFT.