Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Aces High Bug Reports => Topic started by: Ardy123 on January 08, 2010, 04:30:41 PM
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Last night, I shot a p47 with a 30mm cannon and nothing happened. Subsequently, someone else shot the plane down and I got the kill but I thought it was weird...
Also, it has been mentioned before but sometimes when hitting Spit16 and 9s with the 30mm, nothing happens or at most a fuel leak happens.
I failed to film it but next time it happens I'll provide film
Thanks
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HTC doesn't care about this bug.
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Im Sure that not every single plane hit with a 30mm will not automatically die. For example the german cannon rounds, a lot of the time went through a hurricane's tail section causing minimal damage.
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I'm wondering if the 'explosion' from the 30mm caused an equal distribution of 'damage points' across multiple parts on the plane, not enough to bring any one part down, but enough that when totaled together you still get the kill? A probably incorrect guess but whatever.
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Ok, how about a 37mm round. I was flying with some guys and they were flying P-39Qs and they hit planes several times with that cannon and got nothing.
This game has some serious flaws and they seem to be increasing.
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Ok, how about a 37mm round. I was flying with some guys and they were flying P-39Qs and they hit planes several times with that cannon and got nothing.
This game has some serious flaws and they seem to be increasing.
Impossible in that you cannot hit anything with the 37mm in the P-39.
:rofl
wrongway
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AWwrgwy makes a rather valid point about that setup..........
But.....
So many variables are taken into account when computing damage. The first, and certainly most foremost thing....... Is it strictly cannon fire or are you sprinkling 50's or .303's in with them? Sprites are NOT a direct reflection on how many or what kind of hits are received.
The damage model, as mensa180 points out, is a big question mark. Landing on the fuselage might be damaging 14 different parts and thus lowering the lethality.
Plus in the given example......... It's a Jug. Thunderbolts eat 30mm for breakfast.
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Last night, I shot a p47 with a 30mm cannon and nothing happened. Subsequently, someone else shot the plane down and I got the kill but I thought it was weird...
Also, it has been mentioned before but sometimes when hitting Spit16 and 9s with the 30mm, nothing happens or at most a fuel leak happens.
I failed to film it but next time it happens I'll provide film
Thanks
if it was a D11... several months ago I took a 30 mm from a K4 while flying a D11, bad damage sustained, 2nd hit I couldn't survive.
I also remember a spit8 taking a field gun hit once from D400, I waited for the lag stuff to blow him up ....and waited ... and waited, when he was at 2.5k+ out I lost the hope to achieve the kill :lol -- was the weirdest and funniest thing ever seen. :rofl
edit: errata corrige: the funniest thing was looking at my ultra-drunk squaddie trying to land a badly damaged B25 on a port while he was screaming on TS trying to line her up under friendly fire. :rofl wtfg Tech
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Ok, how about a 37mm round. I was flying with some guys and they were flying P-39Qs and they hit planes several times with that cannon and got nothing.
As a frequent P-39 driver I can assure you that when a 37 mm hit a fighter, it's toast.
But against bombers it's a very different story. Somehow the 37 mm looses it's teeth against buffs, even on smaller parts.
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HTC doesn't care about this bug.
I would like to hear an answer about this from them, the other 30mm thread was what 40 pages long without 1 reply by an HTC staff member. Before my break I was hitting alot of different planes with 30mm and they werent going down, KI61s, P40s, P51, F4U(these pissed me off alot) it isnt just spits anymore :salute
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the jug is tough as old boots, depends where the 30mm lands as to whether you'll fly away from it. usually you dont.
cmon guys this is the interweb, you know how it works: without film it didnt happen ...
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the jug is tough as old boots, depends where the 30mm lands as to whether you'll fly away from it. usually you dont.
cmon guys this is the interweb, you know how it works: without film it didnt happen ...
My tator dud films dont work anymore(the ones I have) :frown:
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yeah most of my old films just crash the viewer now :(
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Here is a film on the rather pathetic hitting power of the 37 mm M4 againt bombers:
37 mm vs. Lanc (http://www.netcologne.de/~nc-vreckova/m4vslanc.ahf)
1. hit: right wing root. no further damage. Sorry, but at least the flaps in that area should have been toast on the first hit.
2. hit: left h-stab. it just looses the attached rudder. Seriously, a 37 mm blast should have removed the entire h-stab, and possibly the left elevator too.
3. hit: right wing root. roughly the same location as hit one. Now the flap is gone, but I think with that hit, the wing should have come off completely.
4. hit: left inner engine. enigne (or fuel tank) catches fire. I'm ok with that.
5. hit: left wing middle. no further effect. not even flap damage, quite similar to hit 1.
6. hit: left inner engine: second direct hit. this engine shoube be frikin' dead now, but still runs like a champ. at least the flap comes off though.
Now, at last, the right wing comes off, most likely due to fire damage.
So let me summarize:
6 hits from probably the strongest or 2nd strongest a2a round in the game. 2 times 2 hits placed in the same area, with only minor damage (flaps)
Direct hits in weak components, like h-stab and engine, with little to no effect. Very underwhelming for a round that takes out an entire P-47 wing without breaking sweat, or completly blows a fighter apart. The only somewhat resonable effect was the round that lit up the plane, can't tell if it was the engine or fuel tank though.
In my opinion, the results should have been more like this:
1. hit: right wing root. flaps come off on first hit, not the second.
2. hit: left h-stab. the entire h-stab removed and possibly the left elevator too.
3. hit: right wing root. roughly the same location as hit one. Wing failure, game over.
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HTC doesn't care about this bug.
Let's ask Hitech to use the new WW1 arena as a test bed for an improved damage model. :neener:
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HTC doesn't care about this bug.
Personaly i think they kind of enjoy how much the odd dud tater makes some people cry :D
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Yeah not all 30mm exploded IRL.
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1. hit: right wing root. no further damage. Sorry, but at least the flaps in that area should have been toast on the first hit.
2. hit: left h-stab. it just looses the attached rudder. Seriously, a 37 mm blast should have removed the entire h-stab, and possibly the left elevator too.
3. hit: right wing root. roughly the same location as hit one. Now the flap is gone, but I think with that hit, the wing should have come off completely.
4. hit: left inner engine cowling. enigne (or fuel tank) catches fire. I'm ok with that.
5. hit: left wing middle. no further effect. not even flap damage, quite similar to hit 1.
6. hit: left inner engine: second direct hit. this engine shoube be frikin' dead now, but still runs like a champ. at least the flap comes off though.
thats not quite what I see in the film.
1. hit on fuselage just aft of wing root
2. hit on rudder - rudder lost
3. hit on right flap - flap lost
4. hit on left inner engine rear cowling - fuselage flames up
5. hit on left wing middle - chunks of debris from wing so damage registered
6. hit on left inner engine cowling - cowling lost and flap lost
the 37mm seems to do splash damage but not a massive amount. so hit (1) may have done some splash damage to the right flap but not enough to take it off. the left flap is a case in point - no direct hits but 2 hits to the engine cowling cause enough splash damage to the flap to remove it. how the engine cowling survives a direct hit is another question. the fuselage has taken a direct hit (1) and the splash from (3) and (4) so flames up. iirc it takes quite a few 20mm to flame up a lanc fuselage so a good result for the 37mm there.
overall that looks ok to me.
edit: quite hard to see exactly where the left engine hits land because of the black underside camo.
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thats not quite what I see in the film.
1. hit on fuselage just aft of wing root
2. hit on rudder - rudder lost
3. hit on right flap - flap lost
4. hit on left inner engine rear cowling - fuselage flames up
5. hit on left wing middle - chunks of debris from wing so damage registered
6. hit on left inner engine cowling - cowling lost and flap lost
the 37mm seems to do splash damage but not a massive amount. so hit (1) may have done some splash damage to the right flap but not enough to take it off. the left flap is a case in point - no direct hits but 2 hits to the engine cowling cause enough splash damage to the flap to remove it. how the engine cowling survives a direct hit is another question. the fuselage has taken a direct hit (1) and the splash from (3) and (4) so flames up. iirc it takes quite a few 20mm to flame up a lanc fuselage so a good result for the 37mm there.
overall that looks ok to me.
edit: quite hard to see exactly where the left engine hits land because of the black underside camo.
Well, I dunno if splash damage is modeled at all. If it is, it's strange in many respects. See, the hit in the rudder then should have made an effect to the elevator and the h-stab then, yet it didn't. 2 engine cowling hits damage the flaps but not the engine itself? I'm quite puzzled. I will try to get some more fimls, but usually you do not survive long enough in that position to get good footage. ;)
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In RL, if you hit any control surface with a 30mm, you would probably f'up the control mechanism of the airplane so bad that not only the surface would fall off but most of the control cables for neighboring control surfaces would all be busted too.
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spash from cannons is definitely modelled to some degree - eg. you dont need a direct cannon hit on an ack gun to take it out.
hit (4) shows that there is splash damage to nearby areas - the fuselage which has already taken a direct hit (1) flames up, even though it wasnt hit directly this time. the hit to the rudder might have done damage to the surrounding surfaces, just not enough to remove them completely. the engine cowling/flap hits are hard to make out with the camo but the rear part of the cowling is part of the flap, then theres the bulk of the cowling, then in front the engine itself, so theres 3 parts to kill not just an engine.
still looks ok to me.
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Yeah true but if they don't explode the damage is greatly reduced. There is videos of a 109 shooting 30mm into spitfire wings and they both stay on albeit the pilot did have to bail.
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Yeah not all 30mm exploded IRL.
you see them explode but no damage.
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spash from cannons is definitely modelled to some degree - eg. you dont need a direct cannon hit on an ack gun to take it out.
hit (4) shows that there is splash damage to nearby areas - the fuselage which has already taken a direct hit (1) flames up, even though it wasnt hit directly this time. the hit to the rudder might have done damage to the surrounding surfaces, just not enough to remove them completely. the engine cowling/flap hits are hard to make out with the camo but the rear part of the cowling is part of the flap, then theres the bulk of the cowling, then in front the engine itself, so theres 3 parts to kill not just an engine.
still looks ok to me.
Thats all good, but honestly, if a round is capable of completely removing a P-47 Wing with one hit, I do expect a bit more effectivity on bombers too. I'd venture a bet that the P-47 wing is a much more rigid structure as the v-stab of the Lanc.
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it may be, and I'm pretty sure the tail fin would have come off if you'd hit it directly, rather than the rudder.
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A 30mm hit isn't going to stop at a rudder.. it's going through the rudder and blowing the entire v-stab, and H-stabs near it, and tail near THAT, clear off the airframe.
Yes, because fabric covered rudders "really" sheild the rest of the plane from blast damage, eh?
I think splash damage is kind of messed up in this game. It's laggy. Your "hit" registers, but the splash damage at that registered point doesn't kick in til the plane has moved "past that point" if you see what I mean.
This explains how HO shots that land on noses can take off rudders (quite common in this game) and how I can have screenshots and film of myself landing 20mm rounds on the wing of a spitfire, but the spitfire losing it's H-stabs instead. The rounds hit, register with the server, meanwhile the plane is moving forward, the server says "boom happened here" but the plane is microseconds past that point, and the damage ends up elsewhere.
It's the only explanation I can think of, and I have given it a lot of thought. I think that's also one reason why the bigger rounds impact, and leave a fireball on films, but that fireball almost always trails behind the plane rather than where it hits. Makes for annoying screenshots.
I wish the server would track the fireball with the motion of the plane, or just have no delay with the explosion (make it client side or whatever, I don't know how it really works), but that "delay" has been there since forever.