Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: TwinEng on January 16, 2010, 12:47:35 AM
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Yesterday, the government of France honored an 85 yr old American WWII veteran pilot by the name of Wes Duiker, who flew a B-26 Marauder bomber during the war. Duiker was inducted into the Knights of the Legion of Honor, in recognition for his efforts to help free France from German occupation. Two French representatives of the Knights of the Legion of Honor traveled to Springfield, IL, to award Duiker his meal.
They delivered to him a letter from the French Consul General. The letter stated that the people of France would never forget what Duiker and other allied soldiers did to save France. It specifically said the following:
“Thanks to the courage of these brave soldiers, to our American friends and allies, France has been living in peace for the past six decades. They saved our nation and we will never forget. I want you to know that for us, the French people, they are true heroes. Gratitude and remembrance are forever in our souls.”
I guess that there are still some French people left who appreciate the sacrifice that Americans made for them in WWII. Duiker's Bomber Squadron flew valuable support missions for Free French Army forces, softening up the opposing German forces with punishing bomb attacks.
Here is a photo of the award ceremony:
(http://www.sj-r.com/archive/x1689205334/g12c000ba5956689f835ffe6f221e720bc3771f0b680db7.jpg)
And here is a link to a video interview made with Duiker at the ceremony:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72iFH15XeSs&feature=player_embedded
The video is enlightening, due to the fact that Duker says that he believes that the world is just as dangerous a place today, as it was before WWII.
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Millions of medals short and 60 years too late in my book.
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I guess that there are still some French people left who appreciate the sacrifice that Americans made for them in WWII
As I understand it, all you need to do is visit Normandy.
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Buddy of mine has been over there a couple of times to Normandy. He said the French people around there do like Americans, but when you leave the area you don't many French that do like us.
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The French can be a bit offhand with everyone but not everywhere in France. Parisians are famously rude. Don't take it personally. If you attempt to speak a little Vous le vous. They lighten up usually.
But don't be putting negative spin on what is a good news story and a genuine tribute to an old warrior who did his bit. :salute
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:salute to a fine pilot who sacrificed so much for the world...cant imagine being 18 years old and knowing that im killing hundreds of human beings everytime i go up...
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Buddy of mine has been over there a couple of times to Normandy. He said the French people around there do like Americans, but when you leave the area you don't many French that do like us.
Some of the bad attitude may be a reflection of a certain arrogance many US folks show when going abroad. But I know the french can be real tards.
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Sure is funny how Americans weren't considered arrogant until the last several years. People here are not anymore different than they have ever been.
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Some of the bad attitude may be a reflection of a certain arrogance many US folks show when going abroad. But I know the french can be real tards.
Oddly enough when Americans travel abroad we're considered rude or arrogant if we don't/can't speak the native tongue, yet when many foreigners travel to the US who can't speak english we're rude and insensitive for not knowing their native tongue....
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Some of the bad attitude may be a reflection of a certain arrogance many US folks show when going abroad. But I know the french can be real tards.
I've yet to travel outside of the US and have a problem. One day I'll get to Europe, but I always treat everyone how I'd wish to be treated.
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I've yet to travel outside of the US and have a problem. One day I'll get to Europe, but I always treat everyone how I'd wish to be treated.
Agreed. I've been all over the world, and there hasn't been anything happen to me that couldn't be rectified with a positive attitude. Europe, South Pacific, South America..... people all react to you treating them right. It's amazing what a little humility can do.
From what I've garnered about the French, the attitude towards America came from the many Americans that holidayed in France in the 80's and 90's when the dollar was so strong, and expected to be treated like visiting royalty stemming from the events of WW2. Prefacing every request with "I'm an American". I'm not saying this is right or wrong, it is just what I've heard from colleagues that are French.
When it's all said and done, in the context of nations, we repayed the favor of the French in the Revolution, when we helped them regain their freedom in WW2.
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As I understand it, all you need to do is visit Normandy.
ya, when i was 16 i went to England France and Italy on a student Ambassador trip called People to People. There was roughly 30 kids in my group with 4 adult leaders and 1 european student translator (ours was austrian) but anyways we basicly toured europe and got to meet officals and stuff, when we went to Omaha Beach in Normandy there was a big ceremony for us, the Mayor of Normandy came to greet us and in the middle of this speech he made for us 2 French fighter jets flew about 100 feet across the beachline . it was pretty cool.
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But don't be putting negative spin on what is a good news story and a genuine tribute to an old warrior who did his bit. :salute
+1
It really smacks of politics. They give the old man a medal and people complain. :rolleyes:
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Millions of medals short and 60 years too late in my book.
As you expect the French to be kissing our asses, do you remember to kiss theirs for the help they gave in the Revolutionary War? Fair is fair, right?
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As you expect the French to be kissing our asses, do you remember to kiss theirs for the help they gave in the Revolutionary War? Fair is fair, right?
Fair? If you think giving one soldier, one medal, 60 years after the fact is fair when so many, not just Americans but the Allies as a whole did so much to help the French and I'm not even counting all the other crap over the past 200 odd years we've, as Allies, from around the world have done to help then I guess you're about as blind as blind can be. Seven Years War, Revolutionary War, Napoleonic War, WW1, WW2, Vietnam, Gulf War 1, we've been through thick and thick. Fair? Hardly!
It's too little, too late. Sorry if you can't see it. I don't have that ability to turn a blind eye to what is obviously a token gesture that should have been rectified many, many years ago to all the brave soldiers of the Allied nations who fought and died to free France from foreign occupation.
Fair? It's an insult.
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:rolleyes:
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:rolleyes:
+1 on the arguing.
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Fair? If you think giving one soldier, one medal, 60 years after the fact is fair when so many, not just Americans but the Allies as a whole did so much to help the French and I'm not even counting all the other crap over the past 200 odd years we've, as Allies, from around the world have done to help then I guess you're about as blind as blind can be. Seven Years War, Revolutionary War, Napoleonic War, WW1, WW2, Vietnam, Gulf War 1, we've been through thick and thick. Fair? Hardly!
It's too little, too late. Sorry if you can't see it. I don't have that ability to turn a blind eye to what is obviously a token gesture that should have been rectified many, many years ago to all the brave soldiers of the Allied nations who fought and died to free France from foreign occupation.
Fair? It's an insult.
Blooz is a good example of why people not from the US (French, German, British, etc.) think Americans are arrogant.
In the list of wars you posted, what relevance are some of those wars? If you are going to list all of the wars both nations have been involved in then the French win considering they have been around much longer. Did you complain like this when the Tuskegee Airmen got medals of Honor decades later? Too little too late for how African Americans were treated by the US?
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As you expect the French to be kissing our asses, do you remember to kiss theirs for the help they gave in the Revolutionary War? Fair is fair, right?
Perfectly stated.
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Actually, it was the French monarch not France that sent that help to the US during the revolutionary war.
...and he sent the help because it was in his best interest to see the brits bled on foreign soil and make them lose an immense financial asset.
its ironic I'd say that the US received that help (being anti-tyranny monarchs and all that) and thanks to it the People of France were able to overthrow their king (as aid to the US bled his treasury dry).
So.. after the fact... who helped who how?
French people under an id-care-less-about-the-masses king have their monarch empty his treasury helping the US republic who gains independence and freedom thanks to it.. and in return creates the right conditions for the Frennch to revolt and launch their own revolution : the birth of the French republic (which is the France of today for all practical reasons).
In my book the US owes thanks to a monarch (and a rather bad one at that), not the French republic or its people.
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Duiker, Wes - Pilot of B-26 Marauder :salute
(http://ww2il.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/03/wes_duiker.jpg)
"I was attending college when I enlisted in the U.S. Air Force. It was November, 1942. After two years of training in California and Texas, I graduated as a twin engine pilot 2nd Lieutenant. I met my five man crew in Louisiana and we trained together learning how to bomb and how to ditch a plane in water. We made a harrowing 30 day trip to England by way of Brazil, Ascension Island and Morocco. Our first mission was to bomb the ball bearing city of Schweinfert, Germany for General Patches 7th Army. We were a tactical support for the Army as the 42nd Bomb Wing, 17th Bomb Group, 37th Bomb Squadron. By 1945, most of the German Luftwaffe had been decimated, but they had one plane, the first jet fighter called the Messherschmitt 262. I recall one devastating flight. We were six planes flying together when I saw the number 3 and the number 6 planes hit, explode and be taken out. My tail gunner took one-half credit for that Messherschmitt.
After V-E Day our Bomb Group was split up. I was put in charge of a troop train. While in the area, I visited Dachau Concentration Camp. Later, I attended the War Crime Trials in Nuremberg. I also served in Frankfurt with the European Air Transport Command delivering the mail to the bases in Europe. In June, 1946, I arrived in New York with no fanfare and no parade, just so happy to be back on U.S. soil. I went back to school and became a psychologist. I married Bette Drymon and we had five children."
Wes Duiker, Springfield, IL
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In my book the US owes thanks to a monarch (and a rather bad one at that), not the French republic or its people.
Do the French need to thank American servicemen who were drafted?
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Thank them? Absolutely. Does the US not thank Lafayette and his likes?
You're taking my point and countering with something completely different. As a nation, the French did not aid the US it was the French Monarch (who WAS the state as he was absolute monarch) who did. When the US fought for France and its allies during both world wars & afterwards it did so as a democratic nation..aka the people were the government.
I bring this up just because some seem to keep 'score' of who helped who and in this case, the modern French republic is not the same entity (political, social,cultural or economical) as the France of the revolutionary war era. Its like saying Italy today is the same ol' Roman Empire.
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Ok, I see the genealogical point you're trying to make. France today is not the same nation as France in the 18th century, and it wasn't a government of the people back then. But is this so important? I think the point some are making is that just as our ancestors fought and died for their freedom, regardless of political allegiance, so their ancestors did the same for us.
Edit: as for Lafayette, most Americans don't have a clue about who he is. Some aren't even aware that we had help fighting the British. ;)
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I think the point some are making is that just as our ancestors fought and died for their freedom, regardless of political allegiance, so their ancestors did the same for us.
That they fought and died is not in question its the 'they did the same for us' that is.
The difference is the French forces sent by the monarch were practically slave soldiers with the exception of the aristocrats (like Lafayette) who got themselves into it because in that day and age, soldiering (which for them meant command of armies not standing in front line to get shot) was practically an expected hobby of their social class. Many of the other french aristocrats that joined the american revolution were turned away by the continental army because they were incompetent glory seekers.
Lafayette is notable because he disobeyed the monarch to help the US and even paid out of his pocket to get reinforcement and aid to the colonies.
I think the best analogy I can find is if, during the civil war, two black regiments met in the field. One fighting for the slave owners, the others as freemen. Thats the difference between the US GI of ww1+ and the french foot soldier of the rev. war era. So yes, they did fight and die but it wasn't to liberate the american colonies or for freedom (which they themselves had none of), to the foot soldier it was just someone else his monarch told him to go and shoot.
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Right, that's my point about Americans who were drafted. "Slave soldier" describes them perfectly. Oh well, we each have our opinions.
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Right, that's my point about Americans who were drafted. "Slave soldier" describes them perfectly. Oh well, we each have our opinions.
There is a completely baseless underground hate between the two countries, by two proud peoples. It is stupid and should not soil the accomplishments of this pilot, nor of the sacrifices made by so many on both the French and American sides.
One should wonder if the United States would have faired ANY better had it been unfortunate enough to be neighbors to such a maniac as Hitler in 1939.
As it is, let the attitude and egos go, and just salute a man who gave service and sacrifice to both our countries, and let him have his recognition no matter what you feel about it.
<S> Lt. Duiker
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Right, that's my point about Americans who were drafted. "Slave soldier" describes them perfectly. Oh well, we each have our opinions.
I think your getting WW2 and Veitnam cofused.
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I think your getting WW2 and Veitnam cofused.
In 1940 Congress passed the first peace-time draft legislation, which was led by Grenville Clark. It was renewed (by one vote) in summer 1941. It involved questions as to who should control the draft, the size of the army, and the need for deferments. The system worked through local draft boards comprising community leaders who were given quotas and then decided how to fill them. There was very little draft resistance.[6]
A total of 10,110,104 men were drafted between November 1940 and October 1946, drawing from the pool of men born on or before 1927. Note that some of these individuals may have served later -- however, they received deferments initially.
Your post seems to reflect that you don't believe there was a draft in WW2. This is not reality. I don't know what else your post could have meant. Also, you may be confused that "your" isn't the same as "you're".
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Oddly enough when Americans travel abroad we're considered rude or arrogant if we don't/can't speak the native tongue, yet when many foreigners travel to the US who can't speak english we're rude and insensitive for not knowing their native tongue....
We took a trip to okinawa japan for a week when i was 18. It was a really nice place, but every time we went out there would be these old japanese
women who would yell at my mom and my brothers. We didn't know why because we hadn't even spoken to them. We finaly found a cab driver who
spoke english and we asked him one time what they were yelling about. He said "there yelling because they think she (my mom) is arrogant because
shes has 3 sons". We hadnt even thought about it. It made sense though because every where we went people would ask me (the eldest male) to pay.
Near the end my mom would just give me the money.
The point being sometimes its just that we have a different culture and things we do normally here could be considered arrogant/rude there.