Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: MadHatter on January 17, 2010, 07:34:53 AM
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Ok, I've actually figured out how to keep a fighter level, and (believe it or not) shoot someone down. While playing in the MA, I've noticed that there seems to be some unwritten rules. Don't KS, don't HO, that sort of thing. In trying to comply, I finally just gave up and made up my own rules.
If you turn into me head-on, I play chicken. If I see a flash I open up. It seems that most of the fights I've seen have been ho, pass, turn, ho, pass, turn, ho. (That's why I play chicken and open up now)
Check 6 as often as I can. If another pilot is chasing a runner, shadow but don't engage. Check if other pilot needs help or not. If friendly is being chased, don't ask just dive.
Don't shoot burning bombers.
My question is, how far off am I? I want to be a respectable pilot, are these respectable actions?
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Pretty much the way it goes, rarely will you find a guy who won't try to Ho anymore.
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Everyone has a different stance here, I figure a better thing to do would ask everyone how they play then you decide the average.
I hardly ever HO, some people HO in gang bangs I dont because I feel like it leads to bad habits. I try not to gang bang, sometimes I dont see the other 2 guys behind me trying to kill the same guy due to tunnel vision ect. I ask people to join a fight, something like "Hey buddy you need help?" is what Ill ask. I salute anyone who salutes me, it isnt that hard to .s name, keeps the community friendly ;). Ill talk crap to anyone who talks crap to me or my sqaud, other then the people in my sqaud I dont know about anyone outside of the game so I stay away from judging character of the person.(kinda my pet peeve of this community :rolleyes: ) I fly luft most often, I like the dogfighting part of the game but I do all of it from time to time, especially whirbs on my last couple times I got to play :noid .
yea alittle about myself..... :salute....
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99% HO... the other 1% lie
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99% HO... the other 1% lie
Find film of me Hoing........thats what I tell everyone, havnt seen anyone post one yet :cool:
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Find film of me Hoing........thats what I tell everyone, havnt seen anyone post one yet :cool:
Well most work places frown on their employees searching midget clown Pr0n... but I'm sure someone will find a film eventually.
:noid
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Well most work places frown on their employees searching midget clown Pr0n... but I'm sure someone will find a film eventually.
:noid
:rofl :rofl Im bored in my Hotel right now so I have been reading furoms for about 2 hours now........leaving Korea tomorrow at 3pm woooot wooot :D :salute
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:rofl :rofl Im bored in my Hotel right now so I have been reading furoms for about 2 hours now........leaving Korea tomorrow at 3pm woooot wooot :D :salute
You bringing back any Soju?
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You bringing back any Soju?
Im gunna buy some at the airport ;)
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Junky if you go to watch-movies-online.tv you can watch almost any movie you want. Most of the selections are good quality. For the op I fly pretty much just how you stated. I get along with almost everybody and most get along with me. I do talk trash to a pilot if they are running from a fight though. I think that is something I need to work on, but I can't stand when ppl run from a fight in a cartoon world. If the person tells me they are rtb due to ammo, damage, or fuel I will give them a <S> and be on my way. <S> sir and GL.
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I think that is something I need to work on, but I can't stand when ppl run from a fight in a cartoon world.
What in reality happens is that you can't stomach the idea that another player chose not to engage with you and denied a fight from you therefore beating you in his tactics. This makes you mad because you think everyone else should play the way you think they should (junkyII phenomenon).
When this happens and you start getting stressed over non-existent rules on MA, its time to have a short break and come back refreshed.
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What in reality happens is that you can't stomach the idea that another player chose not to engage with you and denied a fight from you therefore beating you in his tactics. This makes you mad because you think everyone else should play the way you think they should (junkyII phenomenon).
When this happens and you start getting stressed over non-existent rules on MA, its time to have a short break and come back refreshed.
:rofl Did I say anything in this post or the other post about how I fly is the best way and everyone should fly like that? I wish they did the fights would be AWESOME :rock
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There are no rules in the MA. Plain and simple. Do what you feel is right.
There is a differentiation though between those who play the game for sport, those who play for the glory of their name in lights, those who play to live and those who play to win the war at any cost. And then of course you have the noobs trying for any kill they can get. Decide which group you fit in and play accordingly.
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What in reality happens is that you can't stomach the idea that another player chose not to engage with you and denied a fight from you therefore beating you in his tactics. This makes you mad because you think everyone else should play the way you think they should (junkyII phenomenon).
When this happens and you start getting stressed over non-existent rules on MA, its time to have a short break and come back refreshed.
I don't understand why somebody would not want to fight in a fighting game. If they extend out and come back with the advantage that is fine as long as they come back and fight, I just don't like seeing the ones who see a person with a slight advantage and decide oh I am gonna run and just not go back. IMO that is lame it is a game what can it hurt you. I think the ones who do this are score potatos they can play the game like they want. As for as me getting stressed out over that. It doesn't happen you assume that I do, and I think you know what assume stands for. The reason I talk crap is so hopefully I can get the person to turn and fight if not oh well, it is their loss for they will never get better running from fights.
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I play by the same rules as you, pretty much, but to better your flying I give you this on the HO. A LOT of guys go for the HO. Most don't know better, and those that do use it as their "kill shot" they practice no other move and bet everything on killing you in the first pass. Some of the big names you see landing kills do this.
In the first picture you are accepting the HO by going nose to nose. You are giving up your first chance of beating this loser. By doing this your almost as bad as the HOer, but seeing as your new we'll say your in the "just don't know better" group. :D
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii253/maddogjoe_photos/accept.jpg)
In this picture you can see that we can avoid the HO and get ahead of the opponent in our angles by NOT going nose to nose. Sure the "red guy" will most likely turn into you so the advantage you get won't be as dramatic as shown here, but you get the idea.
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii253/maddogjoe_photos/avoid.jpg)
This is one of the ways you avoid a HO. Some times you have no choice when flying against the horde you will end up nose to nose and some sort of "jink" or roll can help you avoid getting shot. I concentrate more in avoiding getting hit in those instances than concentrating on hitting with my own HO shot.
Avoid the HO and be a better cartoon pilot!
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I don't understand why somebody would not want to fight in a fighting game. If they extend out and come back with the advantage that is fine as long as they come back and fight, I just don't like seeing the ones who see a person with a slight advantage and decide oh I am gonna run and just not go back.
Well when you get a little more experience in the game you'll realize the runner may have had several reasons for his actions.
He may have been out of ammo or low on fuel. He may have detected several of your friends approaching in the background and decided he'd die for sure if he let you engage. He may have just concluded that he's against a superior skill pilot and/or aircraft and saw his only option to live is to extend.
Maybe he was just a noob trying to live. You may not like it a bit that he denied the kill from you but he was probably happy to get to base safe and possibly land a kill or two.
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I guess you didn't read my 1st post all the way. If you did you would have seen where I said if the guy tells me he is rtb due to ammo, damage, or fuel I will give him a <S> and be on my way. Some ppl just assume they know what a post says instead of reading it all the way. As for as the part where you say he may have decided he is against a superior pilot, then why wouldn't you fight. I am hoping he would turn his record on and engage so he could possibly learn something. I am a crappy pilot, but I will never run from a fight b/c I think the guy is better then me, hell even if I know he is better I won't run.
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Then again once you've been here longer you'll realize they are just runners..... they lost their superior position in a superior plane and won't ever learn how to regain that superiority. They get in the habit of running.
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Well when you get a little more experience in the game you'll realize the runner may have had several reasons for his actions.
He may have been out of ammo or low on fuel. He may have detected several of your friends approaching in the background and decided he'd die for sure if he let you engage. He may have just concluded that he's against a superior skill pilot and/or aircraft and saw his only option to live is to extend.
Maybe he was just a noob trying to live. You may not like it a bit that he denied the kill from you but he was probably happy to get to base safe and possibly land a kill or two.
You'll learn that score is more important than a good fight.
After you've been here a bit longer you'll realize that no body DIES ! planes are free and plentiful. Fight from a disadvantage. You might surprise your self and find out your a more skilled cartoon pilot than you thought, or you might learn something and become a better cartoon pilot.
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Pretty much the way it goes, rarely will you find a guy who won't try to Ho anymore.
Actually, they're getting better at it...
Latest fashion is HOing with tracers off....
Mutley
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I guess you didn't read my 1st post all the way. If you did you would have seen where I said if the guy tells me he is rtb due to ammo, damage, or fuel I will give him a <S> and be on my way. Some ppl just assume they know what a post says instead of reading it all the way. As for as the part where you say he may have decided he is against a superior pilot, then why wouldn't you fight. I am hoping he would turn his record on and engage so he could possibly learn something. I am a crappy pilot, but I will never run from a fight b/c I think the guy is better then me, hell even if I know he is better I won't run.
Lol and you run into the false assumption that everyone has channel 200 tuned and/or they actually can type while flying and operating views.
You see, you have no way of knowing whats the motivation of the other player. You can only see him escaping from you and you get po'd over nothing.
You say you never run from fight even if you know you're fighting a losing battle. Well what if that other player gets his kicks from surviving and making it home instead? You get your kicks from furballing but don't expect everyone else to play the game your way.
Running is more historic than furballing - most flights ended up with no kills. Usually when attacker loses advantage they either dive to escape or climb to a cloud. AH is unrealistic in the sense that you can't really hide yourself in clouds like in real world pilots used to do.
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If you don't like to get HOed don't HO.
If you don't like to get ganged then don't gang.
If you don't like being ran from then don't run. (Although there's a difference between running and dragging.)
If you don't like ack draggers then don't drag to ack.
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If you don't like to get HOed don't HO.
If you don't like to get ganged then don't gang.
If you don't like being ran from then don't run. (Although there's a difference between running and dragging.)
If you don't like ack draggers then don't drag to ack.
The point is that while we do it ourselves we find it justified to survive. When others do it we find it unfair and lame.
I admit to HO'ing when I'm fighting against a superior aeroplane type and that HO might be my only kill shot I can take for example. If I can outmanouver him I will.
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Ok, I've actually figured out how to keep a fighter level, and (believe it or not) shoot someone down. While playing in the MA, I've noticed that there seems to be some unwritten rules. Don't KS, don't HO, that sort of thing. In trying to comply, I finally just gave up and made up my own rules.
If you turn into me head-on, I play chicken. If I see a flash I open up. It seems that most of the fights I've seen have been ho, pass, turn, ho, pass, turn, ho. (That's why I play chicken and open up now)
Check 6 as often as I can. If another pilot is chasing a runner, shadow but don't engage. Check if other pilot needs help or not. If friendly is being chased, don't ask just dive.
Don't shoot burning bombers.
My question is, how far off am I? I want to be a respectable pilot, are these respectable actions?
Seems like a reasonable set of standards, everyone has their own as you can tell by all the head on attack/runner threads that pop up and drag on and on w/out resolution. I think the trick to enjoying fighters in this game is to find a mix of success and learning experiences. The quickest way to get a certain level of success early on is to up a very fast plane and zip around at high speed and blast anything that get's in front of you. Granted there are some lessons to be learned playing this way but I think it's a road that ultimately dead ends rather quickly, it doesn't leave the practitioner with any exposure to a large part of cartoon aerial combat. The same can be true for the head on artist, a lot of newer players like to use it because 50-50 odds are better than what they will have in a maneuvering engagement (at first).
Learning experiences are often not so pleasant, odds are good that if you find yourself in an uncomfortable situation then you're having a learning experience. For myself that meant that I started using a slower plane, I took the trump card (speed) out of my hand and forced myself to fight in the slower part of the flight envelope and I would just tell myself that I was going to die a lot for a little while, if I started getting frustrated I would go back to what was comfortable for a few sorties, switching back and forth. I've read a lot of articles and books trying to get better of the years but the best thing is still to learn by doing, having someone to work with can greatly speed up that process. I wish I had swallowed some pride years ago when I started and asked for more help.
One thing you can do to avoid the jousting style of fights is go to the training arena or email trainers @ hitechcreations . com and set up an appointment to work on merges. If it looks like the bad guy is going to go for the head on attack then you can predict what flight path he's going to take and anytime you have a pretty good idea of what his flight path is going to be then you can exploit it to your advantage.
A good fight versus another fighter is one of the best things that this game has to offer because I've been doing it for ten years now and I'm still learning things which keeps it interesting. On the other hand I think it can also be the most frustrating so ask questions, you'll find that there are many people here who will go out of their way to answer or work with someone who is politely asking for assistance.
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If your goal is to have more than 1 kill per sortie, Ho'ing at first contact isn't the vehicle to get there. It's like playing Russian Roulette over and over
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MadHatter sorry bout the hijack man. If you go to the TA see if Ren or any other trainers are in there. They helped me out alot. Also if you need somebody to shoot at for practice jsut find me and I will be more then happy to be a target. My ingame id is Cajon <S> sir GL.
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The point is that while we do it ourselves we find it justified to survive. When others do it we find it unfair and lame.
I admit to HO'ing when I'm fighting against a superior aeroplane type and that HO might be my only kill shot I can take for example. If I can outmanouver him I will.
The point is don't do it at all. Don't HO, or only HO 262s if that;s your thing. Don't gang, and don't ack-run from a 1v1. And if you have gas, ammo, and your plane isn't shot up then turn and fight if it's only one plane chasing you.
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Hatter you got to decide for yourself . Listen to the advice given , think about the guys you admire in the game . It is your place to decide . I want to add 2cents . Sometimes it is about moments like this . Picture this 3 38 dweebs upping for a big low fight getting killed at different times and upping as fast as we can get back in to get another shot on a zero . I wont give any names away..........Back woods dweller to guy who doesn't lift his feet very high up off the ground as he walks........Look at <we will use a random common name> Dan 3,4,no 5 red guys all around him he is by hissel........oh Dan is gone .........Guy who doesn't lift his feet high to backwoods dweller ..... :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl......backwoods dweller to dan < now lifting again> and guy who don't lift his feet off ground as he walks ..... :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl Price to play game 15 bucks.......price of this moment ......You decide .
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The point is don't do it at all. Don't HO, or only HO 262s if that;s your thing. Don't gang, and don't ack-run from a 1v1. And if you have gas, ammo, and your plane isn't shot up then turn and fight if it's only one plane chasing you.
And why not? During the pacific campaign HO was the official approach to attack against the Japanese. It's someones stupid invention that limits the use of HO attack. If you can do it and fly away with it, why not. Of course it sucks to the losing party. But to put it the other way around, it's he's fault he got into the position to be HO'd at in the first place.
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Hatter you got to decide for yourself . Listen to the advice given , think about the guys you admire in the game . It is your place to decide . I want to add 2cents . Sometimes it is about moments like this . Picture this 3 38 dweebs upping for a big low fight getting killed at different times and upping as fast as we can get back in to get another shot on a zero . I wont give any names away..........Back woods dweller to guy who doesn't lift his feet very high up off the ground as he walks........Look at <we will use a random common name> Dan 3,4,no 5 red guys all around him he is by hissel........oh Dan is gone .........Guy who doesn't lift his feet high to backwoods dweller ..... :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl......backwoods dweller to dan < now lifting again> and guy who don't lift his feet off ground as he walks ..... :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl Price to play game 15 bucks.......price of this moment ......You decide .
"Dan" huh? Just a name at random....huh?
:D
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And why not? During the pacific campaign HO was the official approach to attack against the Japanese. It's someones stupid invention that limits the use of HO attack. If you can do it and fly away with it, why not. Of course it sucks to the losing party. But to put it the other way around, it's he's fault he got into the position to be HO'd at in the first place.
This isn't WWII though. But that aside, the idea of not HOing it's not a "stupid invention" - it's partly a convention among players not to HO since that usually doesn't make for a fun fight. And, as Fugitive illustrated, it's better strategy in the long run. And there's also the notion of courtesy to your opponent.
But if you don't buy into any of that and don't mind being HOed back then by all means HO away. Your dime.
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If your goal is to have more than 1 kill per sortie, Ho'ing at first contact isn't the vehicle to get there. It's like playing Russian Roulette over and over
Good point - why take a 50/50 chance when you dont have to.
If you intend to try to fight , and take the HO shot , you will lose angles in the merge, and more that likely quickly lose the fight.
If you intend to HO and GO , then 50/50 is probably an outcome you will be happy with.
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<---------- Big fan of HOs
:banana: :banana: :banana:
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Im gunna buy some at the airport ;)
A crisp 30 degrees up in upstate NY right now. Barely nuff snow to snowmobile around here. :(
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To many people think front deflection shots are HOs. Question is this a HO?
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g256/BloodyBandage/irish.jpg)
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To many people think front deflection shots are HOs. Question is this a HO?
One of my less common comebacks was, "It's not a HO just because you're looking out your up/back view."
:aok
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If someone is making a lead turn so early they show me the entire length of their plane, I am going to fire. Depending who I think it is, I may hold the trigger, chop throttle, and follow them but it also depends on my mood.
Otherwise, I'll try and avoid the HO as much as I can unless I'm shooting bombers.
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Kilo2.. if that shot is a HO, definately depends on what the situation was before you took that picture. If the 109 broke from an obvious HO to try and merge with you, that is a weak shot. If you guys had been going at it for awhile, and that picture is the result of the 109 not being able to pull around, then.. nice shot. ;)
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To many people think front deflection shots are HOs. Question is this a HO?
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g256/BloodyBandage/irish.jpg)
Nope not a HO.
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Nope not a HO.
This is why you hear so much whining about HO on 200.. lots of people dont seem to quite know what one is.. :)
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Kilo2.. if that shot is a HO, definately depends on what the situation was before you took that picture. If the 109 broke from an obvious HO to try and merge with you, that is a weak shot. If you guys had been going at it for awhile, and that picture is the result of the 109 not being able to pull around, then.. nice shot. ;)
+1
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I agree with both MadHatter and JunkyII. I thinkt he worst thing is when you are on a nme plane's 6 you have a bogie on your 6, and there are 3 guys chasing the one you are on and not trying to clear your 6. That is about my only gripe. You can 50% of the time know who is gonna ho ya and who isnt. Guess ya just have to take that chance and hope you dont eat a face full of tater's.
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Not even close to a HO. The only question I ever have in that circumstance is the relative ACM value of the shot. If that is a shot on a merge then your shooting from a nose down position and surrendering significant angles, especially if you freeze the nose at all (and a guns hot merge can be considered "bad form" by some). If this is mid reverse off of a rolling scissors type of reverse then its in the flow of your motion and the only question is are you artificially pulling to lead for the shot when flying to lag pursuit would be correct. A lot of times folks (including me) "win the ACM war" only do give it back via poor shot selection at a critical moment.
The "HO" arguments always show up. To me a HO is simply bad odds most of the time. I separate out the merge from the fight, most of the time if I'm accused of a "HO" it's a front QTR shot that occurs mid fight when I'm thinking lag pursuit and the other guy senses a disadvantage (or opportunity) and tries to reef his bird around hard. If I'm +E and in control I'll simply pop up over to preserve control of the situation vs taking a marginal shot. However if I'm actually -E/defensive then pulling lead and putting some lead in the guy might end the fight or give me some time/space to regroup. This pic is an la-7 driver who thought I HO'd him in the middle of a fight. He engaged +E/alt and had been working me over a bit and got to aggresive with his cut back. I've got 3 notchs of flap out and had been prepared to push the nose down a bit and suck my flaps back up...but he went to swoop around on me again...so I popped him in the cockpit instead...
(http://www.az-dsl.com/snaphook/canopyshot.jpg)
To me this is a typical "HO" setup. Still pic comes from one of many good fights I had with the Ki-84 driver. This is a MA shot not DA but we're both flying "DA rules" and neither of us has frozen the nose on the others path...
(http://www.az-dsl.com/snaphook/headon.jpg)
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Kilo2.. if that shot is a HO, definately depends on what the situation was before you took that picture. If the 109 broke from an obvious HO to try and merge with you, that is a weak shot. If you guys had been going at it for awhile, and that picture is the result of the 109 not being able to pull around, then.. nice shot. ;)
I'd agree with that. Not a ho but could be weak if as stated above.
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I am trying to understand the potentially "weak" shot terminology. Are we talking about weak in the sense that it puts the pilot in a bad situation or weak because of some other reason? I think it is weak positioning in some aircraft, but a great shot in some birds. I regularly take and make shots like this in the better rolling birds (A-5, A-8, Spit 16, Spit 9, to name a few). If I miss, then I can roll back to the left a bit, go vertical & hi yo, and come back in again. Am I missing something?
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I am trying to understand the potentially "weak" shot terminology. Are we talking about weak in the sense that it puts the pilot in a bad situation or weak because of some other reason? I think it is weak positioning in some aircraft, but a great shot in some birds. I regularly take and make shots like this in the better rolling birds (A-5, A-8, Spit 16, Spit 9, to name a few). If I miss, then I can roll back to the left a bit, go vertical & hi yo, and come back in again. Am I missing something?
I think it's a little bit of both, if going for this shot freezes your nose then you're potentially trading position for what could be a relatively low percentage shot. In the MA's I'd probably not hesitate to take a front quarter shot like that. If I can get guns on the bad guy and he can't get guns on me, in a multi-threat environment I'm going to take the shot more often than not.
I also think that under certain situations it would less than ideal from the point of few of etiquette, in the DA/Duel situation I would probably pass up the front quarter shot pictured earlier and try for a shot on or behind the 3-9 line.
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The biggest reason I ask this is because I have seen many games get "over-ruled". Some tactics that may seem dirty get rules placed on them to negate them, but then it get's carried to far. For example, I used to play Mechwarrior 2: Mercenaries alot when I started online gaming. Quick rundown, armies of giant robots blast away at each other. First thing to go was "missile boating". Putting as many missiles as you can on a mech and engaging at maximum distance. Dirty but effective. The counter to it was to take a small mech with big engines and run straight at them. First, it was if you missile boat, you got kicked. Then it was if you use an ankle biter (small mech with big guns) you got booted. Then it was if you shot out someone's legs, then if you shot someone in the back, double teamed, engaged at more then 400 meters, etc. etc. etc. It got to a point where you couldn't find a game where you can move. Literally, to play, you had to stand 200 meters from each other, and pound away. Basically, the notion of an "honorable" fight sucked the life out of this game.
I understand the attitude against ho'ing. To me it seems to be a sucker punch and run -vs- the stand and fight let's see who the better pilot is. I play this game for 2 reasons: One, to be better then you guys. I know that sounds conceited, but before anyone's feathers gets ruffled, hear me out. I love a challenge. I may be, and may always be, a mediocre pilot. But that will not stop me from hunting the superior plane or pilot out there. I'm the Mad Hatter for a reason, I like impossible odds. I will dive into a horde alone, and tho I may last only 3 seconds, you will know I've been there. I actually turned a horde the other day, these guys got so intent on killing me they didn't realize I brought my own behind me. Ho'ing to me seems cowardly, and honestly, ineffective. 7 times out of 10, the end result is my wing got pierced. Fugitive, thanks for the diagrams. I kid you not, as soon as I saw that I upped a Spit9 and went looking for a ho to try it out on. 1 question tho, instead of turning to the inside and following around, wouldn't it be better to cut throttle and turn to the outside to cut the degree of the turn? I'm not trying to second guess you, to me it seems that dogfighting becomes more of a chess match in the air (with move and counter-move) and I'm just trying to figure out the advantages to particular moves. The second reason I play, is I see so much potential in this game. There is so much that can be done to increase the challenge in this game, and I want to be around when it happens. My only hope is that no one gets stagnant with the status quo and leaves different aspects untapped.
The one thing I don't want to happen is to lose my chance at either winging up with a superior pilot, or getting into a fight with one, because of things I've done out of ignorance. Hence, I ask questions. Cajon don't worry about a hijack, the fact that people argue over things like this gives me a chance to get a feel for what is and isn't. Besides, I like watching a good fight.
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From my perspective two things can make a shot choice poor here. If you look at his lift vector its pointed down (if he rolls in plane) so he is accelerating into the shot from a lift vector perspective. This creates a potential overshoot as he continues to pull lead if he is +E. If he is in fact minus E then pulling thru the shot will bleed E and if he cannot sustain lead long enough leaves him much worse of if he doesn't convert the shot. Looking at his actual orientation at the time of the picture he is in out of plane lead and pushing neg G's for the shot (or he's already missed) so he's freezing the nose a bit. If he's -E in a scissors fight shot is outstanding and only thing is a late transition from out of plane lag to in plane lead, however if he's + E then I read the static picture as an overshoot...
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The biggest reason I ask this is because I have seen many games get "over-ruled". Some tactics that may seem dirty get rules placed on them to negate them, but then it get's carried to far. For example, I used to play Mechwarrior 2: Mercenaries alot when I started online gaming. Quick rundown, armies of giant robots blast away at each other. First thing to go was "missile boating". Putting as many missiles as you can on a mech and engaging at maximum distance. Dirty but effective. The counter to it was to take a small mech with big engines and run straight at them. First, it was if you missile boat, you got kicked. Then it was if you use an ankle biter (small mech with big guns) you got booted. Then it was if you shot out someone's legs, then if you shot someone in the back, double teamed, engaged at more then 400 meters, etc. etc. etc.
You surely have noticed that you won't get booted for any tactic you are using in combat in Aces High. For good reason, HTC doesn't dictate you how you fly and fight in the MA's. Apart from the rules made by them (Regulating player conduct for the most opart) there are none.
Players do not only have very varying opinions on about the "rules" how everyone should fly and fight, but often they do lack to follow them themselves - of course always with an excuse ;)
Fly & fight the way you find reasonable and fun. Treat others like you want to be treated. Vulch if you like to, and don't do it if you think it's boring or lame.
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Fugitive, thanks for the diagrams. I kid you not, as soon as I saw that I upped a Spit9 and went looking for a ho to try it out on. 1 question tho, instead of turning to the inside and following around, wouldn't it be better to cut throttle and turn to the outside to cut the degree of the turn? I'm not trying to second guess you, to me it seems that dogfighting becomes more of a chess match in the air (with move and counter-move) and I'm just trying to figure out the advantages to particular moves. The second reason I play, is I see so much potential in this game. There is so much that can be done to increase the challenge in this game, and I want to be around when it happens. My only hope is that no one gets stagnant with the status quo and leaves different aspects untapped.
Sounds like you're describing a one versus two circle fight, take a gander at this thread
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,253819.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,253819.0.html)
It was a very complete discussion of the merits of both merges and when to use one as opposed to the other.
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Fugitive, thanks for the diagrams. I kid you not, as soon as I saw that I upped a Spit9 and went looking for a ho to try it out on. 1 question tho, instead of turning to the inside and following around, wouldn't it be better to cut throttle and turn to the outside to cut the degree of the turn? I'm not trying to second guess you, to me it seems that dogfighting becomes more of a chess match in the air (with move and counter-move) and I'm just trying to figure out the advantages to particular moves. The second reason I play, is I see so much potential in this game. There is so much that can be done to increase the challenge in this game, and I want to be around when it happens. My only hope is that no one gets stagnant with the status quo and leaves different aspects untapped.
I didn't say that was the ONLY way to do it :D The point is by pointing your nose strait at the other guy your giving up angles and a better chance at getting ahead in your NEXT move. Like a chess match you must think ahead, the farther ahead the better you can force the bad guy to just pop up in front of your guns.
I made the pictures because most players say I don't HO, but they are flying INTO the HO all the time. Showing that turning out happens long before you get in gun range most of the time helps new players learn that they have been guilty of accepting the HO instead of working to avoid it and set-up the next move.
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Thanks for the "clarification" guys no pun intended. :aok
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I thought this was about followers of the school teacher in Back To The Future III.
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"Dan" huh? Just a name at random....huh?
:D
Ok maybe not entirely random , but I had to give the readers some clue as to involved parties . With my uber clever disguise of the other guys involved , Sherlock Holmes would be unable to figure who they are . Got to throw the bbs slueths a bone on occasion . The behavior alone < 38 low slow surronded by bad guys alone > would never help people guess who it was . Right ? I am right aren't I ?
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Ok maybe not entirely random , but I had to give the readers some clue as to involved parties . With my uber clever disguise of the other guys involved , Sherlock Holmes would be unable to figure who they are . Got to throw the bbs slueths a bone on occasion . The behavior alone < 38 low slow surronded by bad guys alone > would never help people guess who it was . Right ? I am right aren't I ?
Clearly some dweeb pilot without a clue as to what he is doing!
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Clearly some dweeb pilot without a clue as to what he is doing!
Quite obvious you don't know him . See soulyss my disguise worked . He has mad skillz , Flying incomplete 38s , how to develop the hopeless tactical situation . Why he taught me that very night how to do this myself . Rushing to his , only to see him explode and fall in small pieces into the drink . I arrived just in time to repeat his performance mere seconds later . So add incredible teaching to the list . Enough ? Or do I need to continue to list his skills ? Willing to admit finally your vaunted research skills have failed you ? ;)
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To many people think front deflection shots are HOs. Question is this a HO?
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g256/BloodyBandage/irish.jpg)
Like Lazer said its not a HO but we would have to see about 30 seconds before that. One big pet peeve of mine is when someone doesnt HO on the first merge, does a immelmen then shoots you on the second when you dont think they are gunna take the crap shot......This will get me going for hours on 200 :D
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Like Lazer said its not a HO but we would have to see about 30 seconds before that. One big pet peeve of mine is when someone doesnt HO on the first merge, does a immelmen then shoots you on the second when you dont think they are gunna take the crap shot......This will get me going for hours on 200 :D
Huh? It's guns cold first pass (not out of high ideals, but because while my opponent is trying for the HO I'm working to gain the angles) but after that, get in my sights... and of course, I expect the same in return.
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Huh? It's guns cold first pass (not out of high ideals, but because while my opponent is trying for the HO I'm working to gain the angles) but after that, get in my sights... and of course, I expect the same in return.
In many fights(especially when there is a difference in E) the lower or slower con is going to want to go towards HO to get the E back to eqaul. Alot of times this can give the other guy a shot but alot of those times the lower/slower guy can easily just nose on a shoot....no skill in that shot. Now if your in a scissor and see a full profile of the enemies plane then yes that shot isnt weak and the enemy may end up HO but if your an alright shot you can drop them before they do. The whole "if your in my gunsight im gunna shoot" I think is a horrible way to play IMO :salute
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yeah junky.. sometimes I take that shot though too.. especially if I know someone is going to try to luftberry me..
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Here is my take on the "Ho". Whenever u encounter me at your 12o'clock blazing towards you with 20mm hispano cannons wide open, I have only one thought in my mind. "In this particular model of airplane guns face forward, if you dont want to get shot, dont fly towards me." Durring WW2 headon passes were the most common form of engagments. Now if u want to turn fight then fine, in the FM2 or Zero, or even N1K we can turn fight all day. Ho are not that big of a deal. I never understood why people feel they are. Game is fun no matter how I die.
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Here is my take on the "Ho". Whenever u encounter me at your 12o'clock blazing towards you with 20mm hispano cannons wide open, I have only one thought in my mind. "In this particular model of airplane guns face forward, if you dont want to get shot, dont fly towards me." Durring WW2 headon passes were the most common form of engagments. Now if u want to turn fight then fine, in the FM2 or Zero, or even N1K we can turn fight all day. Ho are not that big of a deal. I never understood why people feel they are. Game is fun no matter how I die.
HO is taking the easy way out in a fight, why do that in a game? A game is best if its a challenge not if its easy like all the flights sims on xbox and Ps3 :salute
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You know I've found a fairly good way to avoid the HO, I will never HO another pilot, theres just no fun in that kind of kill and isn't that why we all play? So anyways when the other guy is coming at me and is about 500 or so out in front I start to go vertical into a immelman, now you can't do it to early or your gonna give him a clean shot at your belly, but after doing it for sometime you'll just get an instinct on when to start, I've found about 95% of the time if he is gonna try to HO, this maneuver avoids it, and I will usually end up after I complete a loop in a better position on him for the kill.
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You know I've found a fairly good way to avoid the HO, I will never HO another pilot, theres just no fun in that kind of kill and isn't that why we all play? So anyways when the other guy is coming at me and is about 500 or so out in front I start to go vertical into a immelman, now you can't do it to early or your gonna give him a clean shot at your belly, but after doing it for sometime you'll just get an instinct on when to start, I've found about 95% of the time if he is gonna try to HO, this maneuver avoids it, and I will usually end up after I complete a loop in a better position on him for the kill.
You shouldnt go up in front of him, go below before you get to him then pull up underneath him. A negative G sot is harder then the positive G shot your method gave him :salute
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99% HO... the other 1% lie
Disagree.
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You shouldnt go up in front of him, go below before you get to him then pull up underneath him. A negative G sot is harder then the positive G shot your method gave him :salute
Thanks for the tip, I'll have to give it a try. :salute
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You shouldnt go up in front of him, go below before you get to him then pull up underneath him. A negative G sot is harder then the positive G shot your method gave him :salute
Exactly. Add in a little horizontal seperation too, and you can often gain 30-60 ' of angles on him while he's trying to HO you - and if you pull too early, he has a harder shot.
<S>
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I like to call the HO a John Wayne merge, face to face guns blazing. I see nothing wrong with it. I do a lot of ords porking in the P-51D. Guys up LA7s or 109ks to chase me. If they start to catch up I will turn and HO. Few people can use the Ks big gun anyway. I can start firing at 1000 out and break at 600. 9 times out of 10 I get the oil or the motor out right with no damage to the 51. It is fast enough to stay out of the way until the other guys motor stops. I fly back re arm and it is off for more ords. However a dead on HO at the LA or any cannon bird is a risk. Fire from a bit of angle and if you miss don't turn just stay fast and make them turn and come after you. Many of the cannon birds don't have a lot of fuel and can only chase you so far. If dog fighting is what you want then this type of tactic is not for you. I GV and if I am flying to get your ords it is because some bomb**** dropped on my tank. This is my way of suspending your ords allotment. Yes you can resupply that base but if you are driving an M-3 with supplies you ain't bombing me.
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never fails.... the guy had some humble, simple thoughts about game play and all the usual so called vets jumped in
to have a ( whos got the bigger stick ) contest.
another wasted 10 minutes my life will never get back.