Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: USRanger on January 17, 2010, 07:03:22 PM
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Yesterday I went from a Nvidia 7600GT(256mb) to an ATI HD 4850(1 gig) and changed my power supply from a 450 watt to an 850 watt. With my old card I was running hi-res, all detail sliders on full, all advanced options on except self shadows. I was maxing out at my 75 fps refresh rate. With my new card, I'm only getting around 55fps with the same settings. Kinda bummed, as I figured I'd be able to run shadows and/or at least get the same fps as my old card. This is my first ATI card and I don't like it already. I'm used to the Nvidia setup with adjusting colors & such. With this ATI card, my screen colors seem blah and I'm having the lesser frame rate issue. Any clue what it could be? I can supply more info as needed. Any recommendations for drivers for this new card? I've changed out cards a few times, but they've always been Nvidia, so it's a little different with the ATI set up.
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System Information
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Time of this report: 1/17/2010, 20:00:01
Machine name: HALLE
Operating System: Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600) Service Pack 3 (2600.xpsp_sp3_gdr.090804-1435)
Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer: HP Pavilion 061
System Model: RF243AA-ABA m7640n
BIOS: Phoenix - AwardBIOS v6.00PG
Processor: AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 5000+, MMX, 3DNow (2 CPUs), ~2.6GHz
Memory: 3582MB RAM
Page File: 475MB used, 6524MB available
Windows Dir: C:\WINDOWS
DirectX Version: DirectX 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904)
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
DxDiag Version: 5.03.2600.5512 32bit Unicode
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DxDiag Notes
------------
DirectX Files Tab: No problems found.
Display Tab 1: No problems found.
Sound Tab 1: No problems found.
Music Tab: No problems found.
Input Tab: No problems found.
Network Tab: No problems found.
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DirectX Debug Levels
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Direct3D: 0/4 (n/a)
DirectDraw: 0/4 (retail)
DirectInput: 0/5 (n/a)
DirectMusic: 0/5 (n/a)
DirectPlay: 0/9 (retail)
DirectSound: 0/5 (retail)
DirectShow: 0/6 (retail)
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Display Devices
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Card name: ATI Radeon HD 4850
Manufacturer: ATI Technologies Inc.
Chip type: ATI Radeon Graphics Processor (0x9442)
DAC type: Internal DAC(400MHz)
Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_9442&SUBSYS_24701682&REV_00
Display Memory: 1024.0 MB
Current Mode: 1024 x 768 (32 bit) (75Hz)
Monitor: Plug and Play Monitor
Monitor Max Res: 1600,1200
Driver Name: ati2dvag.dll
Driver Version: 6.14.0010.7028 (English)
DDI Version: 9 (or higher)
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
Driver Date/Size: 11/24/2009 22:26:52, 300032 bytes
WHQL Logo'd: Yes
WHQL Date Stamp: n/a
VDD: n/a
Mini VDD: ati2mtag.sys
Mini VDD Date: 11/24/2009 22:50:16, 4463104 bytes
Device Identifier: {D7B71EE2-D702-11CF-466E-7A04A1C2CB35}
Vendor ID: 0x1002
Device ID: 0x9442
SubSys ID: 0x24701682
Revision ID: 0x0000
Revision ID: 0x0000
Video Accel: ModeMPEG2_C ModeMPEG2_D
Deinterlace Caps: {6E8329FF-B642-418B-BCF0-BCB6591E255F}: Format(In/Out)=(YUY2,YUY2) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,1) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_PixelAdaptive
{335AA36E-7884-43A4-9C91-7F87FAF3E37E}: Format(In/Out)=(YUY2,YUY2) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_BOBVerticalSt retch
{6E8329FF-B642-418B-BCF0-BCB6591E255F}: Format(In/Out)=(UYVY,UYVY) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,1) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_PixelAdaptive
{335AA36E-7884-43A4-9C91-7F87FAF3E37E}: Format(In/Out)=(UYVY,UYVY) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_BOBVerticalSt retch
{3C5323C1-6FB7-44F5-9081-056BF2EE449D}: Format(In/Out)=(NV12,0x3231564e) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,2) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_PixelAdaptive
{552C0DAD-CCBC-420B-83C8-74943CF9F1A6}: Format(In/Out)=(NV12,0x3231564e) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,2) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_PixelAdaptive
{6E8329FF-B642-418B-BCF0-BCB6591E255F}: Format(In/Out)=(NV12,0x3231564e) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,1) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_PixelAdaptive
{335AA36E-7884-43A4-9C91-7F87FAF3E37E}: Format(In/Out)=(NV12,0x3231564e) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_BOBVerticalSt retch
Registry: OK
DDraw Status: Enabled
D3D Status: Enabled
AGP Status: Enabled
DDraw Test Result: Not run
D3D7 Test Result: Not run
D3D8 Test Result: Not run
D3D9 Test Result: Not run
-------------
Sound Devices
-------------
Description: SB Audigy 4 [AC00]
Default Sound Playback: Yes
Default Voice Playback: Yes
Hardware ID: PCI\VEN_1102&DEV_0008&SUBSYS_10211102&REV_00
Manufacturer ID: 1
Product ID: 100
Type: WDM
Driver Name: ctaud2k.sys
Driver Version: 5.12.0001.1161 (English)
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
WHQL Logo'd: Yes
Date and Size: 6/18/2005 00:53:28, 438784 bytes
Other Files:
Driver Provider: Creative
HW Accel Level: Standard
Cap Flags: 0xF5F
Min/Max Sample Rate: 4000, 192000
Static/Strm HW Mix Bufs: 64, 62
Static/Strm HW 3D Bufs: 64, 62
HW Memory: 0
Voice Management: No
EAX(tm) 2.0 Listen/Src: No, No
I3DL2(tm) Listen/Src: No, No
Sensaura(tm) ZoomFX(tm): No
Registry: OK
Sound Test Result: Not run
---------------------
Sound Capture Devices
---------------------
Description: SB Audigy 4 [AC00]
Default Sound Capture: Yes
Default Voice Capture: Yes
Driver Name: ctaud2k.sys
Driver Version: 5.12.0001.1161 (English)
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
Date and Size: 6/18/2005 00:53:28, 438784 bytes
Cap Flags: 0x41
Format Flags: 0xFFF
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Huh...very weird. Make sure the nvidia drivers are removed and you've got the correct ATI drivers installed...don't think your system could possibly be bottlenecking it...
Nvm stupid links dont work...Do you have the CCC installed?
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You took the 1Gig version despite numerous warnings it would be slower..
Also, did you do a full reinstall or at least use driver cleaner to get rid of all traces of nvidia drivers before installing the Ati?
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I used Driver Cleaner Pro to remove all the Nvidia drivers. I didn't know of any "numerous warnings" because it was a spontaneous buy. I had to pick up a new power supply, had tax return money, so I picked up a vid card also, as my 7600 is old by today's standards. Any ATI users have recommendations for drivers for this card? I'm a pure Nvidia guy, so I don't know squat about ATI drivers.
Do you have the CCC installed?
Yep, came with the drivers.
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CCC installed
Yep, came with the drivers.
CCC will kill some of your frame rate..... all you need is your display driver installed......
Aces high will automatically take control of any AA you might want to use......
also, just for a test...... bump your screen resolution up to 1280 x 1024 if you can........ I know the card will support it ( I don't know what type monitor you got ) but sometimes you will actually see an improvement with 1280 x1024 over 1024 x 768
also, your page file used is a bit high.. you want it down around 200 or lil over.. with Windows XP..... you prob got about 28 to 35 processes running.....
try lowering your processes down to around 22 to 17.......
hope this helps
edit: the most current display driver on the AMD/ATI website for windows XP 32 bit should be good for it....
also, not sure about your PC/MB but sometimes in the BIOS ( MB manufacturer dependent ) you may have to up the allowed ams /watts for the PCI-E slot you are using... the MB could possibly not be sending/allowing enough power to the PCI-E slot / videocard .....<----this is an extreme long shot but is possible...
2nd edit: this longshot prob not available on the HP/Compaq PC MB's........
after you've fixed all the above........go into the Aces High folder and delete the video8.cfg file........ and delete all your cache
let it rebuild itself for the new installed video card....... also if using hires texture pkg. set to 1024 textures and install(reinstall ) the most current hires texture pkg
good luck hope this helps
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^Was trying to get to that, if he has 64 bit, stop CCC from msconfig...
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CCC will kill some of your frame rate..... all you need is your display driver installed......
Aces high will automatically take control of any AA you might want to use......
also, just for a test...... bump your screen resolution up to 1280 x 1024 if you can........ I know the card will support it ( I don't know what type monitor you got ) but sometimes you will actually see an improvement with 1280 x1024 over 1024 x 768
also, your page file used is a bit high.. you want it down around 200 or lil over.. with Windows XP..... you prob got about 28 to 35 processes running.....
try lowering your processes down to around 22 to 17.......
hope this helps
It's 32-bit. I don't remember it asking if I just wanted the display drivers & not the CCC (both when using the CD drivers & when I downloaded drivers off the ATI site). I guess I'll remove it all & try again. Processes-wise, I'm not sure what else I can shut off. I already use FS-Autostart to shut down a bunch. It's just so weird that an old card like mine did better than this new mega-card. Is a video card returnable(BestBuy)? If so, I'm going back to Nvidia. I'll also try bumping my resolution up also to see what happens first.
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Ranger, the 3850's, 4850's, 5850's......... are all a bit lower end verses the 3870, 4870, 5870 ( well 5850 is new engine is lot better, ask Kazaa )
also... it is true. most 512 meg video cards will outperform their 1 gig twins.....
Bestbuy might take it back, or swap out..... but give the above a try 1st........ you might find you like what you got...
I would not use the CD that came with the card at all.....
go to ATI website and download the Display Driver file only... it allows you to do that.......
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Ranger, the 3850's, 4850's, 5850's......... are all a bit lower end verses the 3870, 4870, 5870 ( well 5850 is new engine is lot better, ask Kazaa )
also... it is true. most 512 meg video cards will outperform their 1 gig twins.....
Bestbuy might take it back, or swap out..... but give the above a try 1st........ you might find you like what you got...
Roger, thanks. This will teach me not to impulse buy a brand I know nothing about. :frown:
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Ranger, I went back and edited both my post......... make sure you read em both for other possible help fixes
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Copy. :salute
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Make sure that your AAMode is set to multi-sample and not something crazy like super-sample, via the CCC ofc.
I love my HD5850, faster and much cheaper (by about £80) than a Nvidia's 285.
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Roger, thanks. This will teach me not to impulse buy a brand I know nothing about. :frown:
You should have got a 5770 or something instead of 4850. The fact is that you pay more for less performance at the moment with nvidia. Actually it has almost allways been that way. They come with price premium that's hard to justify.
You didnt say if you used driver cleaner before installing the Ati? It's essential to do install on clean base especially after switching brands.
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I have 4850 with 75fsp self shadow off, tick game settings in CCC for AA etc.
Once it is set exit CCC shut it down.
1280 x 1024 is recommended for this game I believe, check refresh rate in CCC monitor tab is set to 75.
I have noticed that if game is minimized it's displays 60fsp, if game is shut down completely it displays 75fsp again.
Gamma settings in AH graphics settings usually sorts out colour issue. :old:
I will look how my CCC settings are arranged and post mine when I get in from work.
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Thanks Zack.
You didnt say if you used driver cleaner before installing the Ati? It's essential to do install on clean base especially after switching brands.
Rgr, I used Driver Cleaner before installing the new card.
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You might wish to ditch the CCC and go with the Ray Adams Tool Tray. http://www.guru3d.com/article/ati-tray-tools-/ (http://www.guru3d.com/article/ati-tray-tools-/)
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If we look at toms the 4850 1G's are showing a combined 1050 score compared to about a 1000 for the 8800 GTS so you should have easily superior performance to your old card. While it wasn't your best choice it should have done the job. As per others this is a driver/configuration issue. I'm curious if you happen to have a MB with either an Nvidia chipset or any flavor of onboard video. If so you might need to stick with another nvidia card.
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Here are my settings for 4850.
Vista
Right click "Personalize" then "Display settings"
Click tab "Monitor" displays "Screen refresh rate" displays highest Hertz available for your monitor. (75 for my dell monitor)
Click tab "Adapter" then "List all modes" I have set mine to 1280x1924 high colour (16) bit (75) Hertz
CCC Ati control panel 3D Menu
Tick "Use Application settings" when available.
"Mipmap detail" 2/3 slider
"Vertical Refresh" OFF
"Adaptive Anti-Aliasing" Enable and slider to Performance
"Open GL" Unchecked
Hope this helps
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The use of CCC (allowing it to run in the system tray) will suck about 15% of your video cards performance down the drain.
The 1GB version of the 4850 is slower than the 512MB version.
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If you don't use CCC, and load only the bare driver, how do you set the parameters (like AA, AF, transparency AA etc)? (I'm not comfortable with using downloaded software by "some guy".)
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If you don't use CCC, and load only the bare driver, how do you set the parameters (like AA, AF, transparency AA etc)? (I'm not comfortable with using downloaded software by "some guy".)
Use the link I posted in my first reply. That has the "essential" needs, no bloat. Tray Tools is used by the majority of ATi users. I use Nvidia, but keep up with ATi.
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Rays adams tool does not work with vista something about low level drives
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Rays adams tool does not work with vista something about low level drives
Correct, but in USRanger's DXDiag on the the 1st post clearly denotes he uses XP Pro SP3. So it is supported.
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I used Driver Cleaner Pro to remove all the Nvidia drivers. I didn't know of any "numerous warnings" because it was a spontaneous buy. I had to pick up a new power supply, had tax return money, so I picked up a vid card also, as my 7600 is old by today's standards. Any ATI users have recommendations for drivers for this card? I'm a pure Nvidia guy, so I don't know squat about ATI drivers.
Yep, came with the drivers.
Hmmm Ranger, the card I sent ya was a BFG 7800 GT OC and nothing like the 7600 series. If you switched to ATI, ditch that frigging CCC panel and install and USE Ray Adams ATI tray tools! Do a search for Ray Adams or just ATI tray Tools. You don't wanna use a resource hog like the Catalyst Control Center for anything.
All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1
PS.. Why didn't ya just give me a call dude?
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Rays adams tool does not work with vista something about low level drives
Depends on what version you are using. I'm using it fine under windows 7, although I would never have thought of installing Wishta to my system. I'm running 1.6.9.1464 (beta). You can get the beta versions through links from the official ATI Tray Tools forums http://www.Guru3D.com and Ray is really responsive about any problems.
All The Best...
Jay
awDoc1
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Hmmm Ranger, the card I sent ya was a BFG 7800 GT OC and nothing like the 7600 series. If you switched to ATI, ditch that frigging CCC panel and install and USE Ray Adams ATI tray tools! Do a search for Ray Adams or just ATI tray Tools. You don't wanna use a resource hog like the Catalyst Control Center for anything.
All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1
PS.. Why didn't ya just give me a call dude?
Sorry Doc, 7800 not 7600. I'm actually thinking about slapping it back in. There's nothing wrong with it, just wanted to upgrade while I had the cash (tax return).
Btw, I did everything people have suggested here except download the ATI tray tools. Whenever I get to the download on the link K provided, I always get a white screen Page Not Found deal.
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Ranger, try this link for the Tray Tools: http://downloads.guru3d.com/downloadget.php?id=733&file=7&evp=d6ed5400c76c91dd5060e1d2d353a016
If that still doesn't work:
http://download703.mediafire.com/gmkjgsmadvkg/dyzluzgnzgi/attsetup-%5Bguru3d.com%5D.exe (I downloaded it from Guru3D and uploaded to here, so you don't have to worry about the DL being infected on purpose)
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Thank you bro. :aok
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I am getting 60 to 75 frames using CCC this seems fine for game, I will try tray tool beta. :old:
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I have a quick question regarding Ray Adam's Tray Tool.
Would one have to completely uninstall his ATI driver before installing the above or just the CCC part of it?
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This must be a driver issue because you shouldn't lose performance going from a 7800GT to a 4850 but ........ you might not gain a whole lot either.
IMHO you have to be getting to the point of the CPU being a bottle neck . I have a similar setup AMD 64 X2 @ 3ghz and I almost positive that my 8800 is waiting on the CPU .
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If you don't use CCC, and load only the bare driver, how do you set the parameters (like AA, AF, transparency AA etc)? (I'm not comfortable with using downloaded software by "some guy".)
heya 715,
for some of your cards features.. I think Aces High uses something similar to what is called Application preference?(<--spelling )
like the AA slider shows up in the Video Config section of the initial login screen clipboard
where you set textures, frame rate limits, field of view etc....... provided your card supports this feature... it will have the various number of clicks/set points your particular videocard has.....
I think only those features, Aces High supports, are features you possibly have access to thru Aces high...... any other settings your card has, may not possibly be supported by Aces high, so you are filtering them from outside the game per say.... at the cost of a loss in frame rate...... this is probable for both Ati &/or Nvidia type cards using Graphic settings GUI / interface software....... for that particular card type.......
granted if you have a High end Built PC with Dual Core or Quad Core CPU , you might not see any frame rate loss using things like the Nvidia controls or the ATI CCC or ATI Tray Tools, even if the FR loss is there, it is not noticed because your card is maxed to the monitor refresh instead of having vsync turned off....
on lesser machines, it is more noticeable, due to lower end dual core CPU's, or having a Computer that is not finely tuned and has too many processes running or has a page file used that is not consistent with it's normal size regarding the OS being used ( example most WinXP OS's are around 2048 MB allocated (or more ) with 200+/- MB being in use....) we see alot of people have say 2000 to 3000+ MB allocated, but page file size in use is a whopping 400 to 700 MB......
this is my personal view, and I do not speak for Hitech Creations ( HTC ), although I feel they are often saying the same things alot for the past 10 years.......
heh, 1st time I played Aces high I had a 16 meg VooDoo vidcard and was on an AMD 650mhz thoroughbred? slot type CPU & Win98
Aces High total program download size was like under either 22 or 16 megabytes .........
Aces High sure has come along way and grown in size both the game and the planes and the features right along with the community itself.....
hope this is of some help......
(I always followed what Skuzzy suggested ... all that is really needed for Aces High is the Video Display Driver , for ATI cards anyway.......)
:salute
Johnny ( TC )
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This must be a driver issue because you shouldn't lose performance going from a 7800GT to a 4850 but ........ you might not gain a whole lot either.
IMHO you have to be getting to the point of the CPU being a bottle neck . I have a similar setup AMD 64 X2 @ 3ghz and I almost positive that my 8800 is waiting on the CPU .
I don't know 38ruk,
is hard to believe your 8800 card is over powering for your AMD 64 X2 @ 3ghz
I have an ASUS ATI 3870 512 Meg and my setup is AMD64 athlon x2 6400 @ 3.2 ghz stock........ I am able to max everything out and use highres texture pack, 1024 textures and advanced settings in game use 2048 shadows and shadowing features selected...... my frame rate stays pretty much pegged at 69/70 in WinXPpro and stays pegged at 75 in Windows 7 64bit.....
now for USRanger, it might be a possible........... but more so might be his MB only tops out at 533 mhz for his DDR2 memory... but he has an AM2 processor...... I think the slower memory speed might be a henderance to his over all setup instead of his processor...... that is my thoughts..... if it is giving him lower FR verses his older card.......
I am curious though as to how his new card is doing after going thru and checking/changing stuff around.....
USRanger?
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Mines a socket 939 X2 overclocked on water from 2.2 to 3ghz so I'm behind the curve....a long ways lol . I built this thing 4 years ago and then took a 4 year break from AH .The only thing i've changed is i swapped my old 7800gt out for this 8800gts . I'm honestly amazed that I have no stutter or bog downs at default settings with 4X AA ( or whatever one notch down from most in AH config settings is) . The lowest frame rate i've seen is in the 40's and it's usually maxed @ 75 on 1440X900. I have XP slimmed down to 11 processes and no IRQ sharing of the important stuff...... so im sure that helps.
Holy I guess its closer to 5 years old . I really need to upgrade
AMD X2 4400+ @3ghz
EVGA NF41 SLI Nforce 4
EVGA 8800GTS 320
XFI Xtreme Music
2X1G Corsair XMS
36G WD Raptor
200G WD Storage drive
Thermaltake BigWater 745