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General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Eric122 on February 02, 2010, 01:29:06 PM

Title: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Eric122 on February 02, 2010, 01:29:06 PM
The M3a1 was a submachine gun  designed for use by aircrew and ordinence personel who needed a weapon to defend themself. It costed around 20 dollars per gun and fired a .45 acp round. It used stamped parts.

It would be nice to have somthing besides a pistol to use after you bail out.
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: saantana on February 02, 2010, 01:32:46 PM
The M3a1 was a submachine gun  designed for use by aircrew and ordinence personel who needed a weapon to defend themself. It costed around 20 dollars per gun and fired a .45 acp round. It used stamped parts.

It would be nice to have somthing besides a pistol to use after you bail out.

Yes. Add to that a knife, cigarettes, a small translation book of german to english and a customizable picture of my high school sweetheart.

+1
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: waystin2 on February 02, 2010, 02:48:42 PM
Yes. Add to that a knife, cigarettes, a small translation book of german to english and a customizable picture of my high school sweetheart.

+1

You forgot about the chocolate bars... :lol
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: texastc316 on February 02, 2010, 02:53:56 PM
Nylons for the ladies.
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Latrobe on February 02, 2010, 03:03:38 PM
I want to bail out with a full ghillie suit on, M1903A1 Springfield rifle with 10x zoom scope, 20x zoom binoculars, and 100 rounds of ammo so I can snipe you from 600 yards out as you try to up.  :P
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: waystin2 on February 02, 2010, 03:08:47 PM
I want to bail out with a full ghillie suit on, M1903A1 Springfield rifle with 10x zoom scope, 20x zoom binoculars, and 100 rounds of ammo so I can snipe you from 600 yards out as you try to up.  :P

Oh noooooos!  Geeks with sniper rifles... :rofl
(http://www.geekologie.com/2009/09/08/halo-sniper.jpg)
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: texastc316 on February 02, 2010, 03:33:56 PM
Make a 24x mildot. With illuminated reticle. Of course I'll need a spotter.
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: guncrasher on February 02, 2010, 05:28:53 PM
Make a 24x mildot. With illuminated reticle. Of course I'll need a spotter.

after getting shot down and not killed, i bet you are already spotted.  :D.

semp
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: bustr on February 02, 2010, 07:07:36 PM
Guy looks like he's holding a prop for a SciFi convention. Geek..... :joystick:
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: phatzo on February 02, 2010, 09:03:07 PM
can I have a Barrett.
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: AWwrgwy on February 02, 2010, 11:07:54 PM
The M3a1 was a submachine gun  designed for use by aircrew and ordinence personel who needed a weapon to defend themself. It costed around 20 dollars per gun and fired a .45 acp round. It used stamped parts.

It would be nice to have somthing besides a pistol to use after you bail out.

How about:  No it wasn't
Quote
designed for use by aircrew and ordinence personel who needed a weapon to defend themself.

Quote
The M3 submachine gun, also known as Grease gun, was developed as a cheaper war-time alternative to famous Thompson M1 and M1928 submachine guns.

Ahhh, the "facts" some people come up with....

 :headscratch:


wrongway
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Enker on February 03, 2010, 10:15:14 PM
Guy looks like he's holding a prop for a SciFi convention. Geek..... :joystick:
He could go to both a SciFi convention and a video game convention. Two birds with one prop.
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Crash Orange on February 04, 2010, 10:44:12 AM
Yes. Add to that a knife, cigarettes, a small translation book of german to english and a customizable picture of my high school sweetheart.

Shoot, a fella could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that!
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Saurdaukar on February 04, 2010, 01:00:09 PM
Guy looks like he's holding a prop for a SciFi convention. Geek..... :joystick:

It is a prop.  Good thing, too, since his finger is resting on the trigger.

I might suggest one of the Call of Duty titles to the OP.
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: JunkyII on February 04, 2010, 01:04:47 PM
It is a prop.  Good thing, too, since his finger is resting on the trigger.

I might suggest one of the Call of Duty titles to the OP.
Yea, I always notice poor habits like this and it makes me feel so much smarter :D
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: gyrene81 on February 04, 2010, 01:30:19 PM
The M3a1 was a submachine gun  designed for use by aircrew and ordinence personel who needed a weapon to defend themself. It costed around 20 dollars per gun and fired a .45 acp round. It used stamped parts.
Eric, I have no idea where you came up with that information but you might want to use google and actually read more than 1 resource.

It was designed to replace the expensive M1A1 Thompson and it cost the military more than $20 each. The "ordinence personel" was "ordinance technicians" a.k.a. military weapons techs and it was not designed for use by either aircrews or ordinance personnel...much more to the story than that.
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: 321BAR on February 04, 2010, 06:47:24 PM
Eric, I have no idea where you came up with that information but you might want to use google and actually read more than 1 resource.

It was designed to replace the expensive M1A1 Thompson and it cost the military more than $20 each. The "ordinence personel" was "ordinance technicians" a.k.a. military weapons techs and it was not designed for use by either aircrews or ordinance personnel...much more to the story than that.
besides that... how the ? are you supposed to get that in a cockpit anyways?
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: gyrene81 on February 05, 2010, 11:06:43 AM
besides that... how the ? are you supposed to get that in a cockpit anyways?
LOL...in place of your chute.   :D   :bolt:

Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: guncrasher on February 05, 2010, 06:29:17 PM
Eric, I have no idea where you came up with that information but you might want to use google and actually read more than 1 resource.

It was designed to replace the expensive M1A1 Thompson and it cost the military more than $20 each. The "ordinence personel" was "ordinance technicians" a.k.a. military weapons techs and it was not designed for use by either aircrews or ordinance personnel...much more to the story than that.

think they were called "Ordnance technicians"

ordinance: Orderly arrangement; preparation; provision
Ordnance   1.  Military materiel, such as weapons, ammunition, combat vehicles, and equipment.
                2. The branch of an armed force that procures, maintains, and issues weapons, ammunition, and combat vehicles.
                3. Cannon; artillery.

sorry not to be a donkey, but I spent at least 20 min looking at the word thinking something was wrong with it. anyway I hope i didn't misspelt it either.
semp
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: phatzo on February 05, 2010, 06:48:20 PM
think they were called "Ordnance technicians"

ordinance: Orderly arrangement; preparation; provision
Ordnance   1.  Military materiel, such as weapons, ammunition, combat vehicles, and equipment.
                2. The branch of an armed force that procures, maintains, and issues weapons, ammunition, and combat vehicles.
                3. Cannon; artillery.

sorry not to be a donkey, but I spent at least 20 min looking at the word thinking something was wrong with it. anyway I hope i didn't misspell it either.
semp
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: drfritz on February 05, 2010, 07:48:00 PM
why? better chance of hitting what your shooting at with your 45  than with one of those. no rifle on the barrel. more of spray and  pray. we had one when i was on a 88 crew in the 80's.maybe if your shooting at a side of the barn. you might put one or two rounds in... yea they were really that bad...
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: guncrasher on February 06, 2010, 12:39:37 AM
I hope i didn't misspelt it either  think we should wish for a font that includes sarcasm  :devil.

semp
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: gyrene81 on February 06, 2010, 09:32:22 AM
think they were called "Ordnance technicians"

sorry not to be a donkey, but I spent at least 20 min looking at the word thinking something was wrong with it. anyway I hope i didn't misspelt it either.
semp
Good catch guncrasher...I always forget the difference.  :D


and you're still a donkey...  :neener:   :bolt:
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Eric122 on March 21, 2010, 12:55:02 PM
i got all my facts for the gun off of other websites and 2 or 3 of my small arms books
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: haphazardleek on March 21, 2010, 01:21:38 PM
+1!!!!!
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: PFactorDave on March 21, 2010, 01:23:13 PM
I thought that the M3 was designed with tank crews in mind.
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Eric122 on March 21, 2010, 03:47:17 PM
well my sources may be a little off but thats not the point the point is this is what we should be able to use instead of the .45
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Enker on March 21, 2010, 06:39:24 PM
Again, what pilot would carry an automatic weapon in the cockpit of his  aircraft? Tell us which ones, and whether they were used in across a squadron as part of the survival pack. Then, you might get it. Maybe.
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: SIK1 on March 21, 2010, 07:35:58 PM
WW2OL is that way ====>
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: BrownBaron on March 21, 2010, 07:52:18 PM
WW2OL is that way ====>

 :rofl
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: 321BAR on March 21, 2010, 09:09:15 PM
well my sources may be a little off but thats not the point the point is this is what we should be able to use instead of the .45
IT WONT FIT... WONT WONT WOONNNTT
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: kingcobradude on March 21, 2010, 09:46:27 PM
Yes. Add to that a knife, cigarettes, a small translation book of german to english and a customizable picture of my high school sweetheart.

+1
That works. The pistol is useless. a SMG would be of more use. and I want lots of ammo
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: BrownBaron on March 21, 2010, 09:56:25 PM
My god, you are a young kid, aren't you? I've noticed you posting nonsense all week.

Anyways:

-1, Aces high is a flight sim, not a commando-infantry game, like Call of Duty or sumthin.
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: kingcobradude on March 21, 2010, 10:01:39 PM
My god, you are a young kid, aren't you? I've noticed you posting nonsense all week.

Anyways:

-1, Aces high is a flight sim, not a commando-infantry game, like Call of Duty or sumthin.
and if we have to bail?
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: BrownBaron on March 21, 2010, 10:03:58 PM
Me:If you bail, what would you shoot at with an innacurate, short range SMG?

You: Why..nothing Mr.Brownbaron, sir. I guess I wouldn't have much to aim the ol' pea shooter at, would I...

Me:Exactley, you would have no targets, just a looooong walk to a friendly base.
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: kingcobradude on March 21, 2010, 10:08:20 PM
Me:If you bail, what would you shoot at with an innacurate, short range SMG?

You: Why..nothing Mr.Brownbaron, sir. I guess I wouldn't have much to aim the ol' pea shooter at, would I...

Me:Exactley, you would have no targets, just a looooong walk to a friendly base.

 :huh have you forgot about enemy aircraft in the area? especially one shooting your chute?
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: BrownBaron on March 21, 2010, 10:11:24 PM
and what is to keep said AC from firing from slightly farther away, out of range of your feeble, unrifled SMG?
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: kingcobradude on March 21, 2010, 10:13:33 PM
and what is to keep said AC from firing from slightly farther away, out of range of your feeble, unrifled SMG?
like the pistol is any better?
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: BrownBaron on March 21, 2010, 10:16:34 PM
<SIGH> I did not say that the pistol was better, but, rather, that small arms are rather useless in our current gameplay. Let's all try to improve our reading comprehension, eh?
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: kingcobradude on March 21, 2010, 10:17:48 PM
at least it keeps us alive until we get home, right?
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: PFactorDave on March 21, 2010, 10:18:24 PM
like the pistol is any better?

You do realize that the "Grease Gun" fires the same ammunition as the 45 right?  The only thing the M3 would really do is allow you to miss at a higher rate then the pistol you are used to missing with...  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: BrownBaron on March 21, 2010, 10:19:44 PM
And how, dear Friend, does it do that?

You do realize that the "Grease Gun" fires the same ammunition as the 45 right?  The only thing the M3 would really do is allow you to miss at a higher rate then the pistol you are used to missing with...  :rolleyes:

 :aok
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: kingcobradude on March 21, 2010, 10:22:34 PM
And how, dear Friend, does it do that?

 :aok
it shoots more lead, leaing to a higher chances of a hit
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: BrownBaron on March 21, 2010, 10:27:56 PM
And one hit is going to send an enemy fighter spiraling to his death, i suppose?
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: kingcobradude on March 21, 2010, 10:29:42 PM
And one hit is going to send an enemy fighter spiraling to his death, i suppose?
it will at least give him second thoughts
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: BrownBaron on March 21, 2010, 10:30:49 PM
Oh yes, heaven forbid you get a ping or two on my wing!
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: kingcobradude on March 21, 2010, 10:31:51 PM
Oh yes, heaven forbid you get a ping or two on my wing!
or your canopy
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: BrownBaron on March 21, 2010, 10:37:01 PM
Look...we could go on with one line responses all night, but it comes down to this...
1.It was NOT issued to pilots during ANY period of time.
2.It would not have a significant imapct on gameplay
3.It would distract the AH team from many, more important tasks.
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: kingcobradude on March 21, 2010, 10:38:20 PM
ill give you #3, but im going to research #1
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: BrownBaron on March 21, 2010, 10:38:51 PM
Go for it dude. Good F-in luck.
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: kingcobradude on March 21, 2010, 10:40:49 PM
Go for it dude. Good F-in luck.
wheres that epic facepalm thing?
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: BrownBaron on March 21, 2010, 10:42:19 PM
Do you even understand what a facepalm is?
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Enker on March 21, 2010, 10:43:15 PM
:huh have you forgot about enemy aircraft in the area? especially one shooting your chute?
What use is there to remain in your chute? Extra lives are free, and if you end sortie before you are killed, you get a bailed or a captured, rather than a killed.
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: kingcobradude on March 21, 2010, 10:45:38 PM
Do you even understand what a facepalm is?
yeah its used when a fail like yours occurs
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: BrownBaron on March 21, 2010, 10:49:01 PM
Please explain to me where I failed, my new omnipotent comrade.
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: branch37 on March 21, 2010, 11:05:28 PM
kingcobradude,  seriously, for your own sake, just stop.
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: phatzo on March 21, 2010, 11:06:50 PM
or some more trips to the DA
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: 321BAR on March 21, 2010, 11:41:47 PM
You do realize that the "Grease Gun" fires the same ammunition as the 45 right?  The only thing the M3 would really do is allow you to miss at a higher rate then the pistol you are used to missing with...  :rolleyes:
it was a one in a million shot but i gave a zero pilot a wound with the .45!!! :rofl and btw. the Grease Gun was an SMG... this means it is unrifled and therefore only effective within 100-500 feet give or take... let alone 500 YARDS out :lol
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: kingcobradude on March 21, 2010, 11:45:48 PM
it was a one in a million shot but i gave a zero pilot a wound with the .45!!! :rofl and btw. the Grease Gun was an SMG... this means it is unrifled and therefore only effective within 100-500 feet give or take... let alone 500 YARDS out :lol
and just how do I aim with a pistol at point blank, let alone 500 yards
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: branch37 on March 21, 2010, 11:49:04 PM
ok this is where your epic facepalm pic goes dude  :aok
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: kingcobradude on March 21, 2010, 11:50:41 PM
ok this is where your epic facepalm pic goes dude  :aok
ok here works too. but really
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: PFactorDave on March 21, 2010, 11:50:47 PM
the Grease Gun was an SMG... this means it is unrifled and therefore only effective within 100-500 feet give or take... let alone 500 YARDS out :lol

You really are an idiot...

Sub-machine gun only means that it fires PISTOL ammunition at a high rate...  As opposed to a MACHINE gun which fires rifle ammunition, such as .303 or 30-06 at a high rate...

Sub-machine gun barrels most certainly ARE rifled you tard...

And a 45, fired from a pistol or SMG is really only accurate to about 50 yards (at best) effectively...  The longer barrel of the M3 offers very little if any accuracy beyond standard pistol ranges...
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: BrownBaron on March 21, 2010, 11:52:36 PM
and just how do I aim with a pistol at point blank, let alone 500 yards

If you cant aim the small arm we already have, how do you expect to be able to aim your precious SMG?
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: kingcobradude on March 21, 2010, 11:55:13 PM
If you cant aim the small arm we already have, how do you expect to be able to aim your precious SMG?
thats where its appropriate to pray and spray
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: branch37 on March 21, 2010, 11:57:30 PM
with a 25-30 round magazine against an airplane?  Go right ahead dude.
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: kingcobradude on March 21, 2010, 11:58:08 PM
with a 25-30 round magazine against an airplane?  Go right ahead dude.
carry more than one mag
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: 321BAR on March 22, 2010, 12:01:44 AM
and here it comes! wait for it...... FACEPALM UBER!!!
http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/obama-gets-the-epic-facepalm/2cdf63669bf6c73d3f302cdf63669bf6c73d3f30-1629338468453
and another! http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/epic-facepalm-compilation-ultimate-edition-complete/c674cd602332bfc210cac674cd602332bfc210ca-1718101606517 but seriously an unrifled .45 round wont travel the distance needed to kill a plane
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: BrownBaron on March 22, 2010, 12:03:38 AM
seriously an unrifled .45 round wont travel the distance needed to kill a plane
And if it did reach the plane, it wouldn't have the velocity necessary to do any real damage...
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: phatzo on March 22, 2010, 12:06:00 AM
ok this is where your epic facepalm pic goes dude  :aok
:rofl
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: branch37 on March 22, 2010, 12:06:11 AM
I just love people that are always right no matter how much evidence is stacked against them, and keep going even though they are making a complete idiot of themselves.  Some people never cease to amaze me.
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: phatzo on March 22, 2010, 12:08:43 AM
I just love people that are always right no matter how much evidence is stacked against them, and keep going even though they are making a complete idiot of themselves.  Some people never cease to amaze me.
to think the youth of today will be looking after us when we get old and feeble.  :( :old:
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: kingcobradude on March 22, 2010, 12:09:07 AM
And if it did reach the plane, it wouldn't have the velocity necessary to do any real damage...
and if it hits the prop, the props toast
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: phatzo on March 22, 2010, 12:11:53 AM
or the prop may just bat it straight back to you. Caught and bowled kingcobradude.
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: kingcobradude on March 22, 2010, 12:15:28 AM
or the prop may just bat it straight back to you. Caught and bowled kingcobradude.
if it hits it jut right thats true, but the prop woill also suffer damage
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Krusty on March 22, 2010, 12:17:08 AM
Kingcobradude, you might want to study up more. You're young yet, so you may not know that all bullets are different. Pistol bullets are often very weak In aces high they would be a mere fraction of the stopping power of "peashooter" 7mm guns on some early war planes.

The .45 caliber weapon is a larger diameter, but slower moving round. It was used because it imparts more energy/damage into a human as it enters them. This means it has much less penetration. They were point-blank weapons. More than once, a german soldier has run across a part of a battlefield and been shot at by Tommy guns with no effect. One kraut even found spent .45 rounds in his cuffs and pockets, and had some bruises where they hit.

They are never (repeat, NEVER) goin to damage a plane, a prop, anything on the planes in AH with any number of hits unless you're literally standing on top of one and he's not moving. Even then you only "might" hurt the pilot if you unload a clip. There is a reason the .45 is not used anymore in modern law enforcement.



That's totally ignoring the fact that it's foolish to pretend this ever happened in WW2. I won't spoil your fun, but I will say if you research Bf-109s and the tropical variants you might find a little more fuel to your fire. I just hope you absorb some knowledge in the process

 ;)
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: 321BAR on March 22, 2010, 12:21:19 AM
to think the youth of today will be looking after us when we get old and feeble.  :( :old:
either that or you could call kingcobradude a politician dem or rep alike.
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: kingcobradude on March 22, 2010, 12:24:51 AM
now, how do I do that ignore list?
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: 321BAR on March 22, 2010, 12:26:41 AM
Kingcobradude, you might want to study up more. You're young yet, so you may not know that all bullets are different. Pistol bullets are often very weak In aces high they would be a mere fraction of the stopping power of "peashooter" 7mm guns on some early war planes.

The .45 caliber weapon is a larger diameter, but slower moving round. It was used because it imparts more energy/damage into a human as it enters them. This means it has much less penetration. They were point-blank weapons. More than once, a german soldier has run across a part of a battlefield and been shot at by Tommy guns with no effect. One kraut even found spent .45 rounds in his cuffs and pockets, and had some bruises where they hit.

They are never (repeat, NEVER) goin to damage a plane, a prop, anything on the planes in AH with any number of hits unless you're literally standing on top of one and he's not moving. Even then you only "might" hurt the pilot if you unload a clip. There is a reason the .45 is not used anymore in modern law enforcement.



That's totally ignoring the fact that it's foolish to pretend this ever happened in WW2. I won't spoil your fun, but I will say if you research Bf-109s and the tropical variants you might find a little more fuel to your fire. I just hope you absorb some knowledge in the process

 ;)
agreed totally except that the rifled .45 is a good weapon at range. (good) not great. the B.A.R. (hence the name) was exactly like this... still wouldnt use it against a plane though unless it was flying right at me and i needed to.
now, how do I do that ignore list?
ignore list? seriously cobra? time to realize you lost this one and move on mate
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: kingcobradude on March 22, 2010, 12:28:07 AM
Yes im serious. and did anyone try to contact me over radio recently in Orange?
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: BrownBaron on March 22, 2010, 12:28:15 AM
Look, your behaviour is earning you this animosity, the people on this forum are kind, decent people, just act like us, not arrogant. You insist that you are correct, yet provide no evidence, you wish to "ignore" us all, but we are not your enemies.
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: phatzo on March 22, 2010, 12:29:33 AM
BAR uses a 30-06 round much more devastating than a .45
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: kingcobradude on March 22, 2010, 12:30:29 AM
ok brown baron. But I did receive a radio message in orange at an inconvenient time
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: PFactorDave on March 22, 2010, 12:50:05 AM
Quote from: 321BAR link=topic=283009.msg3622624#msg3622624 date=126923/  Obviously not...5601
agreed totally except that the rifled .45 is a good weapon at range. (good) not great. the B.A.R. (hence the name) was exactly like this... still wouldnt use it against a plane though unless it was flying right at me and i needed to. ignore list? seriously cobra? time to realize you lost this one and move on mate

 :uhoh

Do you even know what BAR stands for?  Any idea what ammunition the BAR fired?  Obviously not...

And what range, exactly, do YOU think the .45 pistol round is a good weapon?

I think I will stand by my earlier proclamation...  You are an idiot...
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: SIK1 on March 22, 2010, 01:12:46 AM
agreed totally except that the rifled .45 is a good weapon at range. (good) not great. the B.A.R. (hence the name) was exactly like this... still wouldnt use it against a plane though unless it was flying right at me and i needed to. ignore list? seriously cobra? time to realize you lost this one and move on mate

I have to agree with PFactorDave your knowledge of firearms is monumental. :headscratch: o.k. not really...  :noid
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: ozrocker on March 22, 2010, 05:26:58 AM
I thought that the M3 was designed with tank crews in mind.
That's what I thought. I served in US Army, only ppl I saw with the "Grease Gun" was Tankers.
                                                                         <S> Oz
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Plawranc on March 22, 2010, 06:21:14 AM
HEY THIS IS A GREAT IDEA!!!!

HOW BOUT WE TAKE FALLOUT 3's PROGRAMMING AND GIVE BUFF BAILERS "FATMANS" SO THEY CAN LEVEL THE BASE WITHOUT HAVING BOMBS!!!!!

Th3Y R T3H L337 NUB5!!!!!

This has been an insight in how retardedly stupid this thread is, hope you all enjoyed it.
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: 321BAR on March 22, 2010, 09:03:20 AM
:uhoh

Do you even know what BAR stands for?  Any idea what ammunition the BAR fired?  Obviously not...

And what range, exactly, do YOU think the .45 pistol round is a good weapon?

I think I will stand by my earlier proclamation...  You are an idiot...
yup i was wrong in the caliber. noted by someone else above... and if you think I'M an idiot than you're an idiot yourself my friend... but it only had an effective range out to 1,500 yards. For a ranged weapon thats only good in my mind. I always had in the back of my mind that it was a .45 round. always forgot that the .45 was a pistol round only and never included rifled rounds. And what do you mean idk what MY OWN GAME NAME stands for? Browning Automatic Rifle obviously unlike what everyone in game THINKS my name is as just a bar..... and i still wouldnt use a BAR against a plane at this range so whats ur point? u trying to put me down or something? grow up and stop flaming and trolling in the BBS
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: 321BAR on March 22, 2010, 09:09:16 AM
HEY THIS IS A GREAT IDEA!!!!

HOW BOUT WE TAKE FALLOUT 3's PROGRAMMING AND GIVE BUFF BAILERS "FATMANS" SO THEY CAN LEVEL THE BASE WITHOUT HAVING BOMBS!!!!!

Th3Y R T3H L337 NUB5!!!!!

This has been an insight in how retardedly stupid this thread is, hope you all enjoyed it.
YES! and maybe we can have super mutant behemoths also! :lol
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: A8EJay on March 22, 2010, 09:14:50 AM
Na matter what kind of day im having, i can always count on this forum to put a big ol smile on my face.  Kingcobradude, you might want to change your name.... :uhoh :banana: :banana:
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: gyrene81 on March 22, 2010, 10:24:24 AM
agreed totally except that the rifled .45 is a good weapon at range. (good) not great. the B.A.R. (hence the name) was exactly like this... still wouldnt use it against a plane though unless it was flying right at me and i needed to.

the Grease Gun was an SMG... this means it is unrifled and therefore only effective within 100-500 feet give or take... let alone 500 YARDS out :lol

yup i was wrong in the caliber. noted by someone else above... and if you think I'M an idiot than you're an idiot yourself my friend... but it only had an effective range out to 1,500 yards. For a ranged weapon thats only good in my mind. I always had in the back of my mind that it was a .45 round. always forgot that the .45 was a pistol round only and never included rifled rounds. And what do you mean idk what MY OWN GAME NAME stands for? Browning Automatic Rifle obviously unlike what everyone in game THINKS my name is as just a bar..... and i still wouldnt use a BAR against a plane at this range so whats ur point? u trying to put me down or something? grow up and stop flaming and trolling in the BBS
No offense 321BAR but...sshhhhh...just those 3 posts show you know less about weapons than I know about aeronautical engineering...and I know enough about aeronautical engineering to ask questions, not try and state any facts.

Just so you have the correct information...all 20th century small arms used by military forces had rifled barrels...that includes the sub machine guns but does not include the basic shotgun...the .45ACP started out as a pistol round but as illustrated by the devastating capabilities of the Thompson Sub Machine gun, it could reach out and destroy things at longer ranges than a pistol.
The BAR caliber 30.06 had a combat effective range of approximately 400 yards, not 1500...even though it could hit at long range, accuracy suffered...considering they used the .30 Browning machine gun in and against aircraft, what makes you think they would'nt use the more powerful BAR when necessary?



And a 45, fired from a pistol or SMG is really only accurate to about 50 yards (at best) effectively...  The longer barrel of the M3 offers very little if any accuracy beyond standard pistol ranges...
Not quite true...the M3 had an effective combat range of 100 yards...spray and pray mind you but still farther than the 50 yards of a 4 inch barreled pistol...and I've fired a 6 inch barreled .45 pistol accurately at 75 yards in competition.



i got all my facts for the gun off of other websites and 2 or 3 of my small arms books
You need to read your sources again...in WWII the M3 was never ever issued to fighter pilots...if at any point a fighter pilot had one, it was an anectdotal incident, not standard military issue...it started out issued to MPs in rear guard positions then went on to be issued to tank crews on the front lines...then basic front line infantry by the Korean war.




The .45 caliber weapon is a larger diameter, but slower moving round. It was used because it imparts more energy/damage into a human as it enters them. This means it has much less penetration. They were point-blank weapons. More than once, a german soldier has run across a part of a battlefield and been shot at by Tommy guns with no effect. One kraut even found spent .45 rounds in his cuffs and pockets, and had some bruises where they hit.

They are never (repeat, NEVER) goin to damage a plane, a prop, anything on the planes in AH with any number of hits unless you're literally standing on top of one and he's not moving. Even then you only "might" hurt the pilot if you unload a clip. There is a reason the .45 is not used anymore in modern law enforcement.
Krusty is correct in most part. The .45ACP was developed to replace the .38special for combat sidearms because the .38 proved to be very ineffective...the .45ACP travels at roughly 800 feet per second, which is close to the velocity of the .38 special but it carries more energy upon impact...aka knockdown power...and it is capable of traveling through the human body even if it hits bone...the effective range is only about 50 yards when fired from a pistol, even though it is deadly to 200 yards ...when fired from a sub machine gun it's effective to about 150 yards. What Krusty failed to note in his anecdote of the German soldiers is that the ranges those German soldiers were hit with was nearly 300 yards...and the same effect occurred with the German MP40s firing 9mm Parabellum...the .45ACP was phased out in most (not all) law enforcement agencies due to much more than just the effective range of the bullets...9mm ACP was chosen due to increased bullet capacity and higher velocity with increased damage upon impact yet sacrificing knock down power and range...others decided to use the .40S&W because it is in between the 9mm and .45, higher velocity and equal knock down power...the .45ACP is still used by some.

I know, Krusty, keep it simple just so it doesn't go over the heads of the unknowing but...  :confused:
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Krusty on March 22, 2010, 10:33:10 AM
As a small side-comment to yours, the 9MM handguns actually have greater range and accuracy over the .45s because they have a higher velocity and a lighter slug. Often times they do not have the "stopping power" to put a person down (i.e. kill them, incapacitate them) with a single hit because it is so powerful it's going all the way through them and then through whatever else they hit after that. The thing about the .45 is that it "stops" people because it transfers what energy it has upon impact, and has little or none left after (if) it penetrates all the way through. The 9mms retain their E, to put it in AH terms, far better.
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: gyrene81 on March 22, 2010, 10:40:41 AM
As a small side-comment to yours, the 9MM handguns actually have greater range and accuracy over the .45s because they have a higher velocity and a lighter slug. Often times they do not have the "stopping power" to put a person down (i.e. kill them, incapacitate them) with a single hit because it is so powerful it's going all the way through them and then through whatever else they hit after that. The thing about the .45 is that it "stops" people because it transfers what energy it has upon impact, and has little or none left after (if) it penetrates all the way through. The 9mms retain their E, to put it in AH terms, far better.
Yes sir, my apologies for leaving ballistic speed out of the equation. I'm not a fan of the 9mm even though it's a faster bullet, it's too much like firing a .38 super...I've seen people and animals take a hit and keep running where the .45 and .40 knock them down.
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 22, 2010, 12:44:02 PM
or some more trips to the DA

LOL!  That reminds me, I'll be posting those films this evening when I get home from work.  I bet he was wishing he had a grease gun as he was floating in his chute.


ack-ack
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 22, 2010, 12:50:53 PM
ok brown baron. But I did receive a radio message in orange at an inconvenient time

(http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/2/29679/941610-jumbofacepalm.jpg_jumbo_facepalm_image_by_arem9682_super.jpg)

ack-ack
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: kingcobradude on March 22, 2010, 03:47:41 PM
LOL!  That reminds me, I'll be posting those films this evening when I get home from work.  I bet he was wishing he had a grease gun as he was floating in his chute.


ack-ack
yOUY AUGERD ANYWAY SO i COULD HAVE GONE DEER HUNTING WITH THAT GREASE GUN
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 22, 2010, 04:19:01 PM
yOUY AUGERD ANYWAY SO i COULD HAVE GONE DEER HUNTING WITH THAT GREASE GUN

After you were shot down, why waste time to return to base when it's quicker just to auger and get a new one?


ack-ack
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Eric122 on March 22, 2010, 04:22:26 PM
Look...we could go on with one line responses all night, but it comes down to this...
1.It was NOT issued to pilots during ANY period of time.
2.It would not have a significant imapct on gameplay
3.It would distract the AH team from many, more important tasks.

1. it WAS issued to pilots during the vietnam war i havent had time to search for a preticulear squadred that used it in WW2
2. Its better than carrying a pistol
3. ITs realitively easy to make
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Enker on March 22, 2010, 04:31:00 PM
1. it WAS issued to pilots during the vietnam war i havent had time to search for a preticulear squadred that used it in WW2
2. Its better than carrying a pistol
3. ITs realitively easy to make
So what? The Vietnam war was around two decades after World War Two, and the last time I checked, Aces High II was not a Vietnam War-era flight simulator.
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Spikes on March 22, 2010, 04:34:23 PM
This ain't Vietnam.
99% of pilots .ef out of their chute after bail anyway.
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Eric122 on March 22, 2010, 04:37:18 PM
So what? The Vietnam war was around two decades after World War Two, and the last time I checked, Aces High II was not a Vietnam War-era flight simulator.

Im going to do some reseatch and see what squadrens if any used it in ww2 im shure at least 1 used it otherwise just dont continue on hte conversation
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: gyrene81 on March 22, 2010, 04:46:11 PM
Im going to do some reseatch and see what squadrens if any used it in ww2 im shure at least 1 used it otherwise just dont continue on hte conversation
Please study spelling while you're at it...see you in a few months and good luck with finding information that doesn't exist.
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 22, 2010, 04:55:53 PM
1. it WAS issued to pilots during the vietnam war i havent had time to search for a preticulear squadred that used it in WW2
2. Its better than carrying a pistol
3. ITs realitively easy to make

The only pilots that I've read about during the Vietnam War that carried extra personal weapons in their planes were FAC pilots and it wasn't a standard thing, some carried them and some didn't. 


ack-ack
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: kingcobradude on March 22, 2010, 06:21:21 PM
LOL!  That reminds me, I'll be posting those films this evening when I get home from work.  I bet he was wishing he had a grease gun as he was floating in his chute.


ack-ack
well the films?
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 22, 2010, 06:29:35 PM
well the films?

the films of me kicking your bellybutton in the DA?  What part of "when I got home from work" do you not understand or do I have to type it slower for you to understand?


ack-ack
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Eric122 on March 22, 2010, 06:35:20 PM
Please study spelling while you're at it...see you in a few months and good luck with finding information that doesn't exist.

My computer messed that up it has automatic correct for the internet.
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Bronk on March 22, 2010, 06:36:38 PM
films if what?  the films of me kicking your bellybutton in the DA?


ack-ack

POST!!!!!POST!!!!!POST!!!!!POST!!!!!POST!!!!!POST!!!!!

 :devil
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: BrownBaron on March 22, 2010, 06:37:50 PM

My computer messed that up it has automatic correct for the internet.
Why do I doubt that your internet browser "corrected" your spelling in such a way..?
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: kingcobradude on March 22, 2010, 06:44:03 PM
the films of me kicking your bellybutton in the DA?  What part of "when I got home from work" do you not understand or do I have to type it slower for you to understand?


ack-ack
Id think youd be home by now
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: BrownBaron on March 22, 2010, 06:45:44 PM
Id think youd be home by now

Most people work 'till 5 or 6, patience.... :cool:
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: kingcobradude on March 22, 2010, 06:47:18 PM
its almost 7
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: branch37 on March 22, 2010, 06:49:08 PM
its almost 7

ever heard of different time zones?  Im sure its possible that he lives in a different time zone than you. 
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: BrownBaron on March 22, 2010, 06:50:40 PM
ever heard of different time zones?  Im sure its possible that he lives in a different time zone than you. 

Correct, Pacific Time Zone.  :D
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 22, 2010, 07:05:17 PM
ever heard of different time zones?  Im sure its possible that he lives in a different time zone than you. 

You're just gonna confuse the kid, don't think he understands the concept of EST, CST or PST.  We'd really blow his mind if were to then introduce the 'advanced concept' of Daylight Savings Time.

Correct, Pacific Time Zone.  :D

Give that man a cigar!


ack-ack
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: BrownBaron on March 22, 2010, 07:09:14 PM
Give that man a cigar!
Why, thankyou!

*lights the fine Cuban gift*

*puff, puff*

Ah, life in the Pacific Time Zone, we wake before dawns rosy fingers streak the sky, and the sun don't set till 8 o' clock in the evening, truly a magnificient area.

*long draw*
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 22, 2010, 07:17:58 PM

Ah, life in the Pacific Time Zone, we wake before dawns rosy fingers streak the sky, and the sun don't set till 8 o' clock in the evening, truly a magnificient area.

*long draw*

Loved it as a kid, especially when I didn't have to come inside in the summer until it got dark.

ack-ack
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Rino on March 22, 2010, 10:57:01 PM
:huh have you forgot about enemy aircraft in the area? especially one shooting your chute?

     Hmmm .45 pistol rounds with a 30 round magazine versus machineguns and cannons with a gunsight.
Think you'd be better off hiding  :rofl
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: 321BAR on March 23, 2010, 12:07:01 AM
No offense 321BAR but...sshhhhh...just those 3 posts show you know less about weapons than I know about aeronautical engineering...and I know enough about aeronautical engineering to ask questions, not try and state any facts.

Just so you have the correct information...all 20th century small arms used by military forces had rifled barrels...that includes the sub machine guns but does not include the basic shotgun...the .45ACP started out as a pistol round but as illustrated by the devastating capabilities of the Thompson Sub Machine gun, it could reach out and destroy things at longer ranges than a pistol.
The BAR caliber 30.06 had a combat effective range of approximately 400 yards, not 1500...even though it could hit at long range, accuracy suffered...considering they used the .30 Browning machine gun in and against aircraft, what makes you think they would'nt use the more powerful BAR when necessary?


Not quite true...the M3 had an effective combat range of 100 yards...spray and pray mind you but still farther than the 50 yards of a 4 inch barreled pistol...and I've fired a 6 inch barreled .45 pistol accurately at 75 yards in competition.


You need to read your sources again...in WWII the M3 was never ever issued to fighter pilots...if at any point a fighter pilot had one, it was an anectdotal incident, not standard military issue...it started out issued to MPs in rear guard positions then went on to be issued to tank crews on the front lines...then basic front line infantry by the Korean war.



Krusty is correct in most part. The .45ACP was developed to replace the .38special for combat sidearms because the .38 proved to be very ineffective...the .45ACP travels at roughly 800 feet per second, which is close to the velocity of the .38 special but it carries more energy upon impact...aka knockdown power...and it is capable of traveling through the human body even if it hits bone...the effective range is only about 50 yards when fired from a pistol, even though it is deadly to 200 yards ...when fired from a sub machine gun it's effective to about 150 yards. What Krusty failed to note in his anecdote of the German soldiers is that the ranges those German soldiers were hit with was nearly 300 yards...and the same effect occurred with the German MP40s firing 9mm Parabellum...the .45ACP was phased out in most (not all) law enforcement agencies due to much more than just the effective range of the bullets...9mm ACP was chosen due to increased bullet capacity and higher velocity with increased damage upon impact yet sacrificing knock down power and range...others decided to use the .40S&W because it is in between the 9mm and .45, higher velocity and equal knock down power...the .45ACP is still used by some.

I know, Krusty, keep it simple just so it doesn't go over the heads of the unknowing but...  :confused:

gyrene i actually went and looked up the BAR online and it had an effective range to 1,500 yards and a max range of shot fired to 4,500. but the thompson and grease gun were rifled? i didnt know this. and btw i nailed it with the effective range of the M3A1... 100 yards is 300feet man. and i said this without actually returning to sources and looking it back up. so i know more than u think man
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 23, 2010, 01:37:02 AM
well the films?

For the record, I was trying to keep from posting the films to prevent any further embarrassment on your part but with your attitude, I figure it would be a good lesson for you to learn how to eat crow once in awhile.  The film is posted in the "Perk the Spitfire" (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,285673.100.html) thread.  Enjoy.


ack-ack
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: 321BAR on March 23, 2010, 05:47:32 AM
Yes sir, my apologies for leaving ballistic speed out of the equation. I'm not a fan of the 9mm even though it's a faster bullet, it's too much like firing a .38 super...I've seen people and animals take a hit and keep running where the .45 and .40 knock them down.
one more thing gyrene, not to continue an argument here but just a point. fighter vs fighter puts a starting velocity on all ordinance shot from the plane. a BAR or a .30cal mg on the ground COULD damage an aircraft in flight but theres a reason quad .50cals, .20mms, and .37 and .40mms were used. now i think ill drop this conversation because i was wrong once already :lol
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: kingcobradude on March 23, 2010, 06:35:26 AM
For the record, I was trying to keep from posting the films to prevent any further embarrassment on your part but with your attitude, I figure it would be a good lesson for you to learn how to eat crow once in awhile.  The film is posted in the "Perk the Spitfire" (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,285673.100.html) thread.  Enjoy.


ack-ack
I will post my film tonight
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 23, 2010, 12:09:12 PM
I will post my film tonight

I would be interested in seeing the film from the fight were I was trying to shoot pieces off of your plane.  Would like see how much I shot off before the coup de grāce.  The films would be like seeing a baby harp seal being clubbed but from the seal's perspective.


ack-ack
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Krusty on March 23, 2010, 12:51:40 PM
I'm still wondering if he'll ever discover the surprise (nobody else tell him!!) if he actually does some reading up on Bf109E tropical models.
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: gyrene81 on March 23, 2010, 12:52:13 PM
gyrene i actually went and looked up the BAR online and it had an effective range to 1,500 yards and a max range of shot fired to 4,500. but the thompson and grease gun were rifled? i didnt know this. and btw i nailed it with the effective range of the M3A1... 100 yards is 300feet man. and i said this without actually returning to sources and looking it back up. so i know more than u think man
LOL...I don't remember you saying 300 feet range on the M3...but I'll give you that one.

the Grease Gun was an SMG... this means it is unrifled and therefore only effective within 100-500 feet give or take... let alone 500 YARDS out :lol




This is what really prompted my replies:
but it only had an effective range out to 1,500 yards. For a ranged weapon thats only good in my mind.
Aside from the idea that you thought sub machine guns used unrifled barrels...1500 yards effective range for any weapon less than .50 caliber is damn good.   :D

You can look up the specs on the BAR all you want...strange that a semi automatic rifle has a longer maximum effective range than a bolt action of the same caliber and era...and the bolt action rifle is by far more accurate.

Yes you could kill with the BAR out to 1500 if it was in pristine condition and stabilized then fired single shot...but the operative word is "effective range" and that is combat range of 400 yards, except out in the open where the battle could force longer ranges...even though it was capable of full automatic fire, the 20 round magazine and design flaws kept it from being an outstanding infantry squad support weapon...it was considered inadequate for much other than a semi automatic rifle like the M1 Garand...




one more thing gyrene, not to continue an argument here but just a point. fighter vs fighter puts a starting velocity on all ordinance shot from the plane. a BAR or a .30cal mg on the ground COULD damage an aircraft in flight but theres a reason quad .50cals, .20mms, and .37 and .40mms were used. now i think ill drop this conversation because i was wrong once already :lol
:neener: I'll bite...what do you think those reasons were? This Eric wish is a dead horse anyway.
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: kingcobradude on March 23, 2010, 03:51:08 PM
I'm still wondering if he'll ever discover the surprise (nobody else tell him!!) if he actually does some reading up on Bf109E tropical models.
and what in gods name are the tropical models?
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: gyrene81 on March 23, 2010, 03:58:31 PM
and what in gods name are the tropical models?
LOL...look em up...even wikipedia has them listed.
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: kingcobradude on March 23, 2010, 04:02:12 PM
LOL...look em up...even wikipedia has them listed.
but it dont say which ones were thr tropical ones
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Krusty on March 23, 2010, 04:30:45 PM
It's part of the reading process. I wasn't thinking specifically of wikipedia, but if it has the info all the better.
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 23, 2010, 06:25:27 PM
but it dont say which ones were thr tropical ones

Here is a picture of it.  You just have to figure out which of the two it is.

(http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/album/data/546/medium/7cc4c74c4f9e98450e077785f1c7a603.jpg)


ack-ack
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: FYB on March 23, 2010, 06:33:51 PM
It's the one on the, right isn't it? No, no, wait... The left? Darn!
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Motherland on March 23, 2010, 06:36:19 PM
Here is a picture of it.  You just have to figure out which of the two it is.

(http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/album/data/546/medium/7cc4c74c4f9e98450e077785f1c7a603.jpg)


ack-ack
While that may be a trop it's kind of unfair since it doesn't seem to have the filter attached in that photograph.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dd/Bf_109_G-2_trop_RAF_Museum_London.jpg)


For lack of a real photograph of an E/Trop with filter attached...
(http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/574/e7nsmooth.jpg)
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 23, 2010, 07:06:39 PM
While that may be a trop it's kind of unfair since it doesn't seem to have the filter attached in that photograph.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dd/Bf_109_G-2_trop_RAF_Museum_London.jpg)


For lack of a real photograph of an E/Trop with filter attached...
(http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/574/e7nsmooth.jpg)


If you look, it appears that it does because you can clearly see the black shape of it, unless that was the outline left over after they removed it.
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Motherland on March 23, 2010, 07:08:09 PM
Those are just the grates of the standard E-style supercharger intake.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/Messerschmitt_Bf_109E.jpg)
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Vudu15 on March 24, 2010, 04:58:09 PM
give me a shovel and a lewis gun outa the F2B...dig small hole at end of runway and fire away  :devil or my Colt Targetsman .22 and hide out at the rearm pad wait for Dutchguy  :noid
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Eric122 on March 24, 2010, 07:58:12 PM
well, we have all learned alot from this forum. I ooviously dont want to try to get it anymore but the conversation is interesting
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: 321BAR on March 24, 2010, 08:07:25 PM
Yes you could kill with the BAR out to 1500 if it was in pristine condition and stabilized then fired single shot...but the operative word is "effective range" and that is combat range of 400 yards, except out in the open where the battle could force longer ranges...even though it was capable of full automatic fire, the 20 round magazine and design flaws kept it from being an outstanding infantry squad support weapon...it was considered inadequate for much other than a semi automatic rifle like the M1 Garand...



 :neener: I'll bite...what do you think those reasons were? This Eric wish is a dead horse anyway.
alright alright i bit back... i did say maximum range for the BAR was 4500. with effective to 1500. this means that it doesnt have to be pristine and didnt have to be stabilized except by the person weilding it. Yes it was hard to WEILD to fire on full auto. http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg36-e.htm found this site. it said it was actually just too light to fire full auto at a shouldered position. This means it was able to fire auto when supported. BUT it could not fill automatic rifle or LMG roles successfully due to the design flaws as you said.
For the second half. im pretty sure those reasons were higher velocity, better punch, etc. :joystick:
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Guppy35 on March 24, 2010, 09:26:07 PM
If you look, it appears that it does because you can clearly see the black shape of it, unless that was the outline left over after they removed it.

That's one of the JG26 birds that went to the MTO for a bit.  I don't believe they got the tropical filter as they didn't get to the Desert.

This is an E7 Trop of JG27 before they got the desert camo.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/109E7TropSicilyJG27.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/?action=view&current=109E7TropSicilyJG27.jpg)
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Guppy35 on March 24, 2010, 09:49:29 PM
With the clear understanding I think it would be a pointless waist of time to do this :)

<Pours gas on fire and runs>

(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/BeauCrew.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/?action=view&current=BeauCrew.jpg)
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: gyrene81 on March 24, 2010, 10:12:24 PM
With the clear understanding I think it would be a pointless waist of time to do this :)

<Pours gas on fire and runs>

(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/BeauCrew.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/?action=view&current=BeauCrew.jpg)
Still not correct...the Brits issued Thompsons to some fighter/bomber crews...the M3 was never issued to any single or multi engine fighter pilots.
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Guppy35 on March 24, 2010, 10:14:21 PM
Still not correct...the Brits issued Thompsons to some fighter/bomber crews...the M3 was never issued to any single or multi engine fighter pilots.

I wasn't even suggesting it.  I came across the image earlier tonight while reading some Aussie Beau stuff and it gave me a laugh thinking about this thread.
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: gyrene81 on March 24, 2010, 10:40:23 PM
I wasn't even suggesting it.  I came across the image earlier tonight while reading some Aussie Beau stuff and it gave me a laugh thinking about this thread.
Yeah when I saw it I was...  :O ...  :eek: ...just wait until Eric sees it.


Any bets on a wish with the Thompson in it from Eric?
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Plawranc on March 25, 2010, 06:38:02 AM
hey why not go overkill, lets have an MP44.
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: 321BAR on March 25, 2010, 07:17:30 AM
hey why not go overkill, lets have an MP44.
forget that give us handheld miniguns... u know the ones that will blow us back on our fat butts if we dont steady ourselves?
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: SlapShot on March 25, 2010, 02:18:39 PM
Im going to do some reseatch and see what squadrens if any used it in ww2 im shure at least 1 used it otherwise just dont continue on hte conversation

Good luck with your "reseatch" ... I am "shure" won't won't get many search hits if you are looking for "squardrens".
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: gyrene81 on March 25, 2010, 02:32:24 PM
forget that give us handheld miniguns... u know the ones that will blow us back on our fat butts if we dont steady ourselves?
:lol  BAR will do that (got first hand experience with it)...but I digress.  :D

How about a sawed off Browning .30 cal? Put a shoulder strap on it and it's portable...can be fired from the hip.
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: LLogann on March 25, 2010, 03:00:39 PM
I just want to replace the Colt with the Luger.........
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Rino on March 25, 2010, 05:33:44 PM
:lol  BAR will do that (got first hand experience with it)...but I digress.  :D

How about a sawed off Browning .30 cal? Put a shoulder strap on it and it's portable...can be fired from the hip.

     I saw a movie with Bob Hope firing a M1919 from the hip in the Pacific...didn't do too badly on the
control either  :D
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: Eric122 on March 25, 2010, 06:50:14 PM
Yeah when I saw it I was...  :O ...  :eek: ...just wait until Eric sees it.


Any bets on a wish with the Thompson in it from Eric?
nah im done with this wish and others like it. But im still convinced the Il-4 is a good idea
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: 321BAR on March 26, 2010, 09:15:03 AM
nah im done with this wish and others like it. But im still convinced the Il-4 is a good idea
IL4s another thread mate :D no need to bring it here unlike me and gyrene's constant bickering about what shoes are better to wear on sundays  :lol a sawed off browning .30? why not go the distance and see if you can do it with a panzershrek? :rofl
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: gyrene81 on March 26, 2010, 09:26:44 AM
IL4s another thread mate :D no need to bring it here unlike me and gyrene's constant bickering about what shoes are better to wear on sundays  :lol a sawed off browning .30? why not go the distance and see if you can do it with a panzershrek? :rofl
Hellzyeah...that would work...with a 50 round belt of ammo...but I'm not sitting on the thing, so where would we put it?  :D
Title: Re: the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out
Post by: 321BAR on March 26, 2010, 09:29:31 AM
Hellzyeah...that would work...with a 50 round belt of ammo...but I'm not sitting on the thing, so where would we put it?  :D
Im IN for doing the dirty work to test fire it on the hip :aok :D