Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Traveler on February 20, 2010, 04:52:47 PM
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How many clicks of the "Q" key are needed to set maneuvering / combat flaps on the P38. The USAAF manual 51-127-1 show a flap selection handle that has three position. Flaps Up, 1/2 flaps and flaps down. 1/2 flaps is the position used for Combat or Maneuvering flaps, it offers reduced stall speed and additional lift generated for the same speed. The speed restriction for extension of Maneuvering flaps is 250 MPH. Perhaps someone from HiTech Creations can provide the correct answer . How many clicks of the "Q" key give the P38 all benefits of Maneuvering flaps.
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How many clicks of the "Q" key are needed to set maneuvering / combat flaps on the P38. The USAAF manual 51-127-1 show a flap selection handle that has three position. Flaps Up, 1/2 flaps and flaps down. 1/2 flaps is the position used for Combat or Maneuvering flaps, it offers reduced stall speed and additional lift generated for the same speed. The speed restriction for extension of Maneuvering flaps is 250 MPH. Perhaps someone from HiTech Creations can provide the correct answer . How many clicks of the "Q" key give the P38 all benefits of Maneuvering flaps.
Hi Traveler,
I'd like to help if I can, but I'd just like to make sure I understand the question.
Are you looking for a correlation between the USAAF manual and the game?
If so, you probably posted in the wrong forum.
Are you asking about the best way to employ the flaps on the P-38 in Aces High?
If so I can help.
Let me know.
Badboy
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Traveler is on a crusade to have the GAME turned into a flight simulator. He has found some information and is trying to get things changed to become more realistic, or at least more along the lines of the information he has found.
Good luck with that!
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Traveler is on a crusade to have the GAME turned into a flight simulator. He has found some information and is trying to get things changed to become more realistic, or at least more along the lines of the information he has found.
Good luck with that!
Your 100% wrong. I asked for accurate aircraft modeling. I think HiTech Creations also wants that.
Aces High is a massive multi-player online combat simulation centered around the World War II air-war. Here are some of the highlights.
•Accurate flight modeling of over 80 aircraft, vehicles, and boats from around the world.
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Hi Traveler,
I'd like to help if I can, but I'd just like to make sure I understand the question.
Are you looking for a correlation between the USAAF manual and the game?
If so, you probably posted in the wrong forum.
Are you asking about the best way to employ the flaps on the P-38 in Aces High?
If so I can help.
Let me know.
Badboy
I'm asking for the current game, the aircraft line identified as P38, Combat or maneuvering flaps are represented by how many clicks of the "q", is it one, two or three. That's what I"m asking.
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Your 100% wrong. I asked for accurate aircraft modeling. I think HiTech Creations also wants that.
wrong forum, for that Sir, This is the help & Training Forum
I also see you posted the same topic in the wishlist forum.....
as for posting in this forum.
I do not have access to the manual you have listed in your opening quote.. but this is an Online sim and we teach how things work or how to go about online play, we do not compare stuff here in this forum with real life, or if their is a matter of inconsistenceys. we leave that to the aircraft & vehicles forum, Sir..... in case you did not know this
in any case, we have (3) P-38 versions the G, J, & L
and they all have differences , some differences including flaps...... which P-38 version are you referencing in that you need help with?
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I'm asking for the current game, the aircraft line identified as P38, Combat or maneuvering flaps are represented by how many clicks of the "q", is it one, two or three. That's what I"m asking.
well in that case, you might want to refer to your manual, and get a protractor, then go launch a P-38(whatever version here) and hit F3 view..then hit the Q in 1 notch increments until it gives you the degrees in which you are looking for which by your opening post is 1/2 flaps :aok
pretty simple :aok
(edit: the in cockpit flaps indicator guage will also tell you when you are around/near 1/2 flaps as well )
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well in that case, you might want to refer to your manual, and get a protractor, then go launch a P-38(whatever version here) and hit F3 view..then hit the Q in 1 notch increments until it gives you the degrees in which you are looking for which by your opening post is 1/2 flaps :aok
pretty simple :aok
(edit: the in cockpit flaps indicator guage will also tell you when you are around/near 1/2 flaps as well )
i think he's trying to get at something like the p38 could only use 1 or 2 positions for maneuvering.......
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I'm asking for the current game, the aircraft line identified as P38, Combat or maneuvering flaps are represented by how many clicks of the "q", is it one, two or three. That's what I"m asking.
You obviously aren't interested in learning how to get the best out of the P38 in Aces High, your response indicates you are only interested in making comparisons with the USAAF manual.
When or if you do ever wish to learn how to play the game a little better, let me know, I'll be happy to help.
Badboy
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I do not have access to the manual you have listed in your opening quote..
Actually, it's on the trainers server, and can be accessed from the P38L page on the wiki (big file, will take awhile to load). Also the Technical Orders for the G and J models are linked on their respective wiki pages.
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wrong forum, for that Sir, This is the help & Training Forum
I also see you posted the same topic in the wishlist forum.....
as for posting in this forum.
I do not have access to the manual you have listed in your opening quote.. but this is an Online sim and we teach how things work or how to go about online play, we do not compare stuff here in this forum with real life, or if their is a matter of inconsistenceys. we leave that to the aircraft & vehicles forum, Sir..... in case you did not know this
in any case, we have (3) P-38 versions the G, J, & L
and they all have differences , some differences including flaps...... which P-38 version are you referencing in that you need help with?
I did not post the same topic in the wish list forum. In the wish list forum I presented my wish for a more accurate P38 model for setting Combat flaps.
In here I am asking the question, seeking help for the three P38 models on how when Combat flaps are set . Is it one , two or three clicks of the “Q” Key .
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so who beat ya, and how "gamey" were they flying the ole 38 o doom? :noid
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Actually, it's on the trainers server, and can be accessed from the P38L page on the wiki (big file, will take awhile to load). Also the Technical Orders for the G and J models are linked on their respective wiki pages.
The links are there but not working
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P38s suck! They need ub3r h0ver fl@ps. :D
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I did not post the same topic in the wish list forum.
understood, I just noticed both of the Topics having identical titles
as for Murdr's post, Murdr will prob have to reload them. skuzzy had to change out a failing hard drive for the trainers FTP and we probably just missed re-uploading those documents.....
NOTE: if anyone notices that any links are not working on the trainers Website or the AH Wiki , please send a PM or email support at hitechcreations please, so we can quickly fix the bad link.....
as for AH's P-38 and the combat flap / maneuvering flaps setting....... I am not a P-38 Pile-it or guru... but I would say that the 1st Notch or Q key press would be the Combat Flap setting.......
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as for Murdr's post, Murdr will prob have to reload them. skuzzy had to change out a failing hard drive for the trainers FTP and we probably just missed re-uploading those documents...
I know 51-127-1 link works. I have it sitting here in a browser. As I noted though, some of the pdf's are very large, and have not been formatted for streaming, so you have to be patient and let it download 100% before being able to view it.
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heck, I didnt know murdr, just assumed...... someone posted the links were not working......
thanks for the clarification :aok
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well in that case, you might want to refer to your manual, and get a protractor, then go launch a P-38(whatever version here) and hit F3 view..then hit the Q in 1 notch increments until it gives you the degrees in which you are looking for which by your opening post is 1/2 flaps :aok
pretty simple :aok
(edit: the in cockpit flaps indicator guage will also tell you when you are around/near 1/2 flaps as well )
Please educate me, how do you set ½ flaps in a P38. Each time you hit the “Q” Key the flaps deploy 20%. 50% is not an option. So your suggestion can not be used.
The flap gauge has 20% 40% 60% 80% 100% So how do you get it to stop at 50%
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(edit: the in cockpit flaps indicator guage will also tell you when you are around/near 1/2 flaps as well )
I edited it for the exact purpose of it not being specifically 50%........please note the underlined part of my quote
hope that helps....
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Traveler, I have one question.
How many WW2 planes have you flown?
I myself have flown all the "L" birds, C-47s, DC-3s,Beech 18s, T-6s, A Yak-3 allison powered, A few P-51s, a Sonya replica"that would be a Jap bird" , along with a Zero and a Kate replica, I have flown a BT-13, 17 and a 19. I have also flown an SE-5a Replica, along with a Fokker DR.VII. I have more tailwheel time than I have milkstool time,"Tricyclegear" Means the wheel is in the front. I have flown everything from pietenpol aircampers to Smith-Swarengensen Aerostars. I have also flown a Ryan PT-22, the Cadet Killer, and have walked away from it, I have flown more WW2 planes than most have seen. I realize that you are a CFI, and have some amount of hours teaching, YOU of all people should realize that this is a game. The guys have done a great job of modeling the planes. Have you even ever shot an NDB approach, I know it is all GPS now. Get out of the books, My dad had 6 Piper Tomahawks, and not a one flew the same, we also had a Swift, and a Cessna 195 with a Continental W670, And a few 172'S along with a Superhawk. I have flown Barons and Cessna 421's to AT-13s. I have time in a Pv-2 Opps Howard. I am sorry Skuzzy Rule 14 if you must, I want to know where this guy gets off. The AH crew has done a great job on the flight Modeling for all the planes. If you dont like the AH modeling go to IL-2 or go to FSX.
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Traveler, I have one question.
How many WW2 planes have you flown?
I myself have flown all the "L" birds, C-47s, DC-3s,Beech 18s, T-6s, A Yak-3 allison powered, A few P-51s, a Sonya replica"that would be a Jap bird" , along with a Zero and a Kate replica, I have flown a BT-13, 17 and a 19. I have also flown an SE-5a Replica, along with a Fokker DR.VII. I have more tailwheel time than I have milkstool time,"Tricyclegear" Means the wheel is in the front. I have flown everything from pietenpol aircampers to Smith-Swarengensen Aerostars. I have also flown a Ryan PT-22, the Cadet Killer, and have walked away from it, I have flown more WW2 planes than most have seen. I realize that you are a CFI, and have some amount of hours teaching, YOU of all people should realize that this is a game. The guys have done a great job of modeling the planes. Have you even ever shot an NDB approach, I know it is all GPS now. Get out of the books, My dad had 6 Piper Tomahawks, and not a one flew the same, we also had a Swift, and a Cessna 195 with a Continental W670, And a few 172'S along with a Superhawk. I have flown Barons and Cessna 421's to AT-13s. I have time in a Pv-2 Opps Howard. I am sorry Skuzzy Rule 14 if you must, I want to know where this guy gets off. The AH crew has done a great job on the flight Modeling for all the planes. If you dont like the AH modeling go to IL-2 or go to FSX.
Lets see, I have time in C47 for Monmouth Airlines back in the 70’s Lots of NDB’s ILS, flew for another little airline, Eastern 727-400. I have B25 , F4U, P40, TBM flying for a War Bird ferry service.
I also think that HiTech Creations has produced a great game. I enjoy it. I made a wish for a more accurate aircraft model. Just as HiTech Creations states. I have not made any detracting statements other then state the truth. The P38 flap selection is not accurate.
Aces High Game Features
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Aces High is a massive multi-player online combat simulation centered around the World War II air-war. Here are some of the highlights.
•Accurate flight modeling of over 80 aircraft, vehicles, and boats from around the world.
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Reposting this since the same question of the AH equivalent to the "maneuver flap" setting was also raised in this thread.
Either 2 or 3 notches. How can I say that? Which one is it? On an EM diagram above 225 you're better off with 2 notches. Both settings are hitting the pilot's G limit, hence both give the same peak turn performance. 2 notches (20 degrees) offers less drag for the same performance at that speed range, hence the wise choice. Below that speed range, 3 notches (30 degrees) offers a slightly more favorable instantanious turn rate and stall parameters. At sustained rate of turn either notch yields almost the same dps, with 3 notches having a slower sustained speed.
The 5 degrees either way from 50% deployment is not a huge performance issue. If you are using them as perscribed "MANEUVERING FLAPS SHOULD BE EXTENDED ONLY LONG ENOUGH TO COMPLE PARTICULAR MANEUVER AND THE BE RETRACED IMMEDIATELY"~Ray Meskimen then you're likely in a speed range where it is a non-factor on turn performance.
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Lets see, I have time in C47 for Monmouth Airlines back in the 70’s Lots of NDB’s ILS, flew for another little airline, Eastern 727-400. I have B25 , F4U, P40, TBM flying for a War Bird ferry service.
That's very cool Traveler but it makes it harder to understand why you couldn't get the AH F6F off the ground at 86 MPH.
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Hey man I had hard time landing the Hog But I am just a LOW time idijte, HOLD THE TAIL DOWN, As it was once said only a Jack4## dont lock the tailwheel.
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Flaps
Fowler flaps were part of the initial design.
The MANEUVER setting was introduced in mid-production of the F model (F-15). The MANEUVER setting pitched the flaps down 8 degrees and were often used for take-off and more importantly, combat, to decrease turning radius. Thus, this setting of the main flap system was sometimes called "COMBAT" flaps.
When the flaps lever was moved out of the MANEUVER setting, the flaps would roll back on rails while also increasing pitch. Thus, the flaps were really a two-part, or hybrid design: 1) conventional hinged flap, and 2) Fowler.
Besides the MANEUVER setting, there were to two other automatic settings: "UP" "DOWN." By manually adjusting the flaps lever, the pilot could also set the flaps anywhere between.
from here.
http://kazoku.org/xp-38n/articles/p38info.htm
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soo ...
the flaps are not modeled strictly to the POH?
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That's very cool Traveler but it makes it harder to understand why you couldn't get the AH F6F off the ground at 86 MPH.
I could fly it off at 86MPH, What I was attempting to do was fly it off at 75 MPH, The film showed the F6F flying off at "Around 60 Knots" That converted to about 75MPH. One I was attempting to fly off at 75 MPH with no flaps as in the training film.
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IAS equals CAS in AH. It can be misleading to compare AH to historical data when it doesnt specify if an IAS was calibrated or not.
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I could fly it off at 86MPH, What I was attempting to do was fly it off at 75 MPH, The film showed the F6F flying off at "Around 60 Knots" That converted to about 75MPH. One I was attempting to fly off at 75 MPH with no flaps as in the training film.
I was referring to your original post stating that all the AH A/C took off at 100 mph.
I don't know that the film shows the F6F-3 taking off at 60 knots, it shows a takeoff and the narrator says it takes off at about 60. I don't believe that's conclusive evidence.
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I was referring to your original post stating that all the AH A/C took off at 100 mph.
I don't know that the film shows the F6F-3 taking off at 60 knots, it shows a takeoff and the narrator says it takes off at about 60. I don't believe that's conclusive evidence.
I think 100MPH can be used through out this game as a ballpark figure except for the ME 262, and people can just jump from aircraft to aircraft using 100MPH for takeoff.
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I see alot of people worrying about "historical" accuracy in here In this respect i think HTC does a pretty fair job getting it as close as u can without making it OVER realistic, lets face it if you threw in the winds,cloud decks and no stall limiters with accurate stall models, and the many other things that could kill a in a heartbeat, you would see alot less people on here!! Oh yeah its little but, the thing that bugs me the most is the gear speed, the gear does not rip off when you lower it at high speed the gear DOORS could rip off, :airplane: i wish they could correct this! Like i said....little
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which stall model is not accurate? groundfeeder?
you might need to post this in the Aircraft & Vehicle Forums and bring it to hitech & Pyro's attention ASAP
I am sure they will want to fix this asap, if you have found something that is not accurately modelled
be ready to back up your post with Factual Accurate historical documents and references........ for all the people who will post /reply to your initial questioning of inaccurate stall models, and as for stall limiters, that is a choice of the player to fly with it :joystick:( and hinder themselves on a performance perspective ) or fly with it turned off and gain full performance from their cartoon planes :airplane: :aok :cheers:
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I think 100MPH can be used through out this game as a ballpark figure except for the ME 262, and people can just jump from aircraft to aircraft using 100MPH for takeoff.
Good Afternoon Traveler,
I was wondering, are you using the "Auto Take-Off" feature when recording that all the planes take off at 100 mph?
or are you manually taking off with the "Auto Take-Off" feature turned off......
if you are using the Auto Take-Off feature..then that answers itself very easily..Auto Take-Off is "COAD'ed" that way to reach that 100 mph speed before lifting off...... :cheers:
hope this helps
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I see alot of people worrying about "historical" accuracy in here In this respect i think HTC does a pretty fair job getting it as close as u can without making it OVER realistic, lets face it if you threw in the winds,cloud decks and no stall limiters with accurate stall models, and the many other things that could kill a in a heartbeat, you would see alot less people on here!! Oh yeah its little but, the thing that bugs me the most is the gear speed, the gear does not rip off when you lower it at high speed the gear DOORS could rip off, :airplane: i wish they could correct this! Like i said....little
i actually think they have the stall modeled fairly accurately.
now if we were to go to full accuracy......
check out this video of what it takes to just get the engines running on one. :aok
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQUjc9QfYYE&feature=related
here's another pretty interesting video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wwbGfH3hFg&feature=related
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The first flap setting is the manuevering flaps (8 degrees). The only thing wrong with the P-38 flaps is whatever is perceived to be so in the OP's mind.
(http://kazoku.org/xp-38n/articles/p38fowler.gif)
ack-ack
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Good Afternoon Traveler,
I was wondering, are you using the "Auto Take-Off" feature when recording that all the planes take off at 100 mph?
or are you manually taking off with the "Auto Take-Off" feature turned off......
if you are using the Auto Take-Off feature..then that answers itself very easily..Auto Take-Off is "COAD'ed" that way to reach that 100 mph speed before lifting off...... :cheers:
hope this helps
I didn't say at 100MPH. I said ballpark figure of 100MPH Some you can fly off a little sooner, but any pilot can jump into any aircraft and take-off without using auto take-off and use 100MPH as a flyaway speed. Maybe that's why AH uses 100MPH for the auto take off speed. Because it's the best generic speed so pilots don't need to remember different airspeeds for game play.
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The first flap setting is the manuevering flaps (8 degrees). The only thing wrong with the P-38 flaps is whatever is perceived to be so in the OP's mind.
(http://kazoku.org/xp-38n/articles/p38fowler.gif)
ack-ack
Ack-Ack, did you see Murdr's respons
"Either 2 or 3 notches. How can I say that? Which one is it? On an EM diagram above 225 you're better off with 2 notches. Both settings are hitting the pilot's G limit, hence both give the same peak turn performance. 2 notches (20 degrees) offers less drag for the same performance at that speed range, hence the wise choice. Below that speed range, 3 notches (30 degrees) offers a slightly more favorable instantanious turn rate and stall parameters. At sustained rate of turn either notch yields almost the same dps, with 3 notches having a slower sustained speed.
The 5 degrees either way from 50% deployment is not a huge performance issue. If you are using them as perscribed "MANEUVERING FLAPS SHOULD BE EXTENDED ONLY LONG ENOUGH TO COMPLE PARTICULAR MANEUVER AND THE BE RETRACED IMMEDIATELY"~Ray Meskimen then you're likely in a speed range where it is a non-factor on turn performance.
"
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Well...if you're an RL pilot, I can understand your single-mindedness on the precision of this sort of stuff, but you're REALLY over-thinking it, IMO.
It's a game, go shoot stuff and insult people's parentage :joystick:
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The first flap setting is the manuevering flaps (8 degrees). The only thing wrong with the P-38 flaps is whatever is perceived to be so in the OP's mind.
(http://kazoku.org/xp-38n/articles/p38fowler.gif)
ack-ack
Just noticed that the diagram you offer only has 4 notchs between full up and full down. While the AH P38 has 5 notchs between full up and full down.
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Hi Traveler,
I'd like to help if I can, but I'd just like to make sure I understand the question.
Are you looking for a correlation between the USAAF manual and the game?
If so, you probably posted in the wrong forum.
Are you asking about the best way to employ the flaps on the P-38 in Aces High?
If so I can help.
Let me know.
Badboy
Badboy please explain it to me . I think I am making 2 mistakes . 1 I think I over flap . 2 I think I may be dropping em when I should lift them , and lifting when they should go down . Any films you have would help . Please explain in the vert and horiz .
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i am still curious, does the AH p38s flap systems adhere strictly to the real world p38s POH or not?
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yea thats what i thought ...
i'd say i was disappointed but when you expected the silence that would not quite accurate ...
now would it?
+S+
t
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Maybe nobody responded because you could answer your question by reading the thread.
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Maybe nobody responded because you could answer your question by reading the thread.
he's just fishing.......dunno if you saw the 30some page long thread where this was all explained to him.
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no i think not we all know why no one answered the question, your reply to my last is proof enough that replies take little enough effort ...
the hypocrisy is just easier to ignore than to admit, that is why no one replied ...
Maybe nobody responded because you could answer your question by reading the thread.
not fishing, i'm making a point.
the "pointing out" you refer to is that the flaps are wrong because HTC says they strictly adhere to the POH as their criteria for modeling the flaps, when in actuality HTC strictly adheres to the POH when it suits their desired plane set balance and feels free to ignore it when it suits their desired balance engineering, this is just another example ...
enjoy your cake and koolaid, eat all you want because as we all know you will always have it as well.
he's just fishing.......dunno if you saw the 30some page long thread where this was all explained to him.
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funny, how, guppy, akak, hitech, myself, and others all showed you that you were absolutely wrong in the other thread that you trolled in......
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Please People!!! Take this Drama debate somewhere else
The Reply's numbered:
Reply #40
Reply #41
Reply #43
Reply #44
& Reply #45
do not belong in the "Help & Training Forum"
if you want to debate, argue, or ask a question regarding Real Life Aircraft &/or Vehicles . or talk about Aces high Planes & Vehicles performance data, flight model characteristics vs an IRL aircraft POH...... then please take it to it's appropriate Forum......
we do not need the DRAMA in this forum.....
Thank You :cheers:
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i would love for you guys to "prove me wrong" on this issue and model the flaps how they actually worked instead of
how the POH says they worked for all the aircraft, or have all the aircraft adhere strictly to the POH ...
until then my last post makes a point that is hard for an honest person to refute and be comfortable with themselves.
mind you it was none of you that proved anything on that other issue, and i posted the retraction after someone else provided the examples on another board.
since you are all about accuracy, on the boards.
funny, how, guppy, akak, hitech, myself, and others all showed you that you were absolutely wrong in the other thread that you trolled in......
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yea sorry TC done here ...
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Please People!!! Take this Drama debate somewhere else
The Reply's numbered:
Reply #40
Reply #41
Reply #42
Reply #43
Reply #44
& Reply #45
do not belong in the "Help & Training Forum"
if you want to debate, argue, or ask a question regarding Real Life Aircraft &/or Vehicles . or talk about Aces high Planes & Vehicles performance data, flight model characteristics vs an IRL aircraft POH...... then please take it to it's appropriate Forum......
we do not need the DRAMA in this forum.....
Thank You :cheers:
my apologies sir......to you and others in here......i let myself get sucked in, when i should've known better. :aok
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yea thats what i thought ...
i'd say i was disappointed but when you expected the silence that would not quite accurate ...
now would it?
+S+
t
This is HiTech's reply in another thread about how the flaps work. As you can see, you're wrong yet again whiich must get pretty tiring for you.
Gentlemen, you are assuming facts that do not happen in AH.
We simply put the degrees and coefficients in for each flap stop.
So what degree is displayed may or may not match what the real plane displays for degrees for the same coefficients. For instance the first stop of the p38 may be displaying 10 degrees, but really be the 8 deg coefficients.
The only thing degrees really do is control the rate at which the flaps move. We put in a degree per sec rate, and then each flap stops degrees.
HiTech
Quit grasping at reasons for getting your arse handed back to you in the unfriendly skies. It's not the flaps, flight model or anything else, it's just your less than average skill that is getting you shot down on a regular basis.
ack-ack
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I have only one question, this is not a flight simulator, where is the problem with the modeling? If i am in a turn, I blow a notch of flaps and am slow enough for them to drop, my turn tightens up. This is pointless. It is the best there is. Hitec and the guys have done a great job. Short of a 12000 dollar sponsorship on a WWII bird where are you going to have this much fun, plus I don't know many of the guys in here except ME that would qualify for the insurance, and where at any less that 4.35 a gallon for av gas are you going to get to fly all you want for what 15.00 a month?
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Badboy please explain it to me . I think I am making 2 mistakes . 1 I think I over flap . 2 I think I may be dropping em when I should lift them , and lifting when they should go down . Any films you have would help . Please explain in the vert and horiz .
Hi hilbly
My suggestion for turning in the horizontal, is to minimise your turn radius in a one circle fight (nose to nose turns) and to maximise your turn rate in a two circle fight (nose to tail). The question is, how does that influence the use of flaps? Generally, to minimise your turn radius you should use full flaps. That part is easy.
However, to maximise your turn rate, we need to be clear on the distinction between instantaneous and sustained turns, because the highest turn rate the P-38 can achieve is 31.5 dps with a turn radius of about 630ft at 236mph with 3 notches of flaps. Compare that with the Spitfire XVI that can also achieve exactly the same radius and rate at that speed, and you see that the P-38L can match the spitfire under certain conditions. Now, in order to hold a high turn rate, the P-38L driver would need to turn nose low, and because the P-38 has 3 notches of flaps out, any spitfire pilot that follows nose low is going to find himself gaining embarrassing amounts of speed and losing turn rate with an increasing turn radius. Many inexperienced Spitfire pilots will learn this about the P-38 the hard way. This helps to explain something about experienced P-38 drivers that you may have noticed… They have no fear of Spitfires, or other aircraft known for their turning ability. They like to turn nose low, and they prefer to fight at altitude so that they have room to turn nose low. For the figures I quoted above check out this EM diagram:
(http://www.badz.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Files/Images/P38LFlaps.jpg)
Sustained turns are different, and the P-38 is unremarkable in that regard. Ideally, you want the fight to be over before you need to depend on sustained turning ability, but if you do, my preference is to use 4 notches for the best compromise between sustained turning ability and turn radius.
For the vertical fight in any aircraft, my suggestion is to lead the top and lag the bottom. That means drop flaps to help pull over the top and then retract them again on the downside to regain energy. In the P-38 this may mean going to 3 or 4 notches over the top, then retracting to 2 or 3 on the down side, depending on what aircraft you are fighting. The exception being that if you go pure vertical, retract flaps fully for optimum zoom.
Lastly, for a similar aircraft engagement, (this applies to all aircraft and not just the P-38) getting the most out of your aircraft isn't just about how much flap you use, a lot depends on energy. Any small energy advantage can be converted to extra turn rate and fights that start Co-E are just as likely to be determined by timing the use of your flaps appropriately as they are by how much flap was being employed.
I am often asked how much flap I was using in a fight after out turning an opponent, but I have never been asked about the timing. When ever you think about energy in an engagement, you should never be concerned with the absolute amount, you should always be thinking relatively, that is in terms of if you have more or less than your opponent. Same deal with flaps, but with flaps you should be thinking in terms of should you employ them sooner or later. With most aircraft my advice is to only use flaps if you are sure you need them, or if you can tell that your opponent is using them, and then always try to use them slightly later. My own preference in the P-38 is to be slow to use the 1st and 2nd notch, but once I get to 2 I will go straight to 3, then I will go to 4 any time my speed is slow enough to allow it. Those timings are what I feel give me the best compromise between radius/rate and energy, while allowing me to manage the workload between flaps and trim, because I always manual trim in the p-38.
Although the P-38 is a dream to fly when you can fly it well, it is one of the most labor intensive aircraft in the game, and being able to do all of the above as second nature is the key to excelling in it. The catch is that you can only do that if you spend some serious time in the P-38, and unfortunately the P-38 is also one of the most jealous aircraft in the game, if you spend any time in other aircraft she will punish you for it when you return :)
Hope that helps.
Badboy
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Book marked. Great write up Badboy, I'd love to work on my efficiency and timing with you sometime. Do you fly during certain hours?
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Badboy, great write up, thanks alot for it. :aok