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Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Black Jack on March 03, 2010, 10:27:42 AM

Title: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: Black Jack on March 03, 2010, 10:27:42 AM
Would like to know what is the best plane for high buff killing. Something as high as 30k vs Lancs for example. What plane has the best guns, high alt performance, speed, to be able to actually make a pass on them withouth exposing yourself to their six o'clock guns. I've tried P47's, spits, pony's, p38's, even Me262 but not really sure which one was the best. At that alt the bombers seemed as fast as me no matter what I was flying. So to pass them, climb a little to slash on them was the only option I had. Not enough speed, performance to be able to climb over them and dive down like we can normally do at 20k and less and if you do, takes you for ever to get back to that alt again. So what plane do you guys use against those bombers at 30k going for the strats?? tks
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: WWhiskey on March 03, 2010, 10:34:49 AM
i like the big "juggs" for that, lots of guns, it just takes alot of time, time i would rather spend on lower alt targets. say around 15 to 20,000 feet.
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: Hap on March 03, 2010, 10:36:43 AM
30K M Jug Ta152 Spit 14 all of it depends on the pilot.
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: WMLute on March 03, 2010, 10:48:14 AM
Jug or Ta-152 are both @ 100kias faster than a B-17 @ 30k
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: Krusty on March 03, 2010, 10:59:00 AM
Ta152 doesn't really have all that great a performance up high at 30k+ -- it's okay, but it's squirrely. Jug is much much more stable. The tradeoff is the 152 has a high chance of a 1-pass kill (with 2x20mm and 1x30mm), so you might want the better guns, or you might want the better platform.

Pick and choose as you like.  :aok
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: Lusche on March 03, 2010, 12:07:35 PM
While losing somewhat in performance beyond 25K, the Bf 109 K-4 is also still a great interceptor vs high alt bombers. The main advantage over the 47M and Ta 152 is that it can climb much faster to altitude, important feature when time is more crucial. (And comparing the K-4 to the Spit XIV: The Spit runs out of WEP before hitting 20K, the 109K still has 5mins to go, so it's the best climber in game.)

So if you got time to get to altitude & into position:
P-47's (all of them do well, but 47M is the best for this mission) -  Sturdy, long endurance, good view, very good firepower!
Ta--152 -  Firepower!
Honorable mention: P-51, F4U-4

If you need to get there quick:
BF-109K
Spit XiV (But note that this one, as all Spitfires, is very fragile. A few pings may remove your wing.)
Honorable mention: 109G-14 with or without gondolas (performance drops rather quick past 25K, but if the buffs are unescorted, you are still good)


All this refers to killing buffs well past 25K or even 30K. At 35k+, (happens very rarely thought) take the 47M.
If you want to compare planes yourself, you want to check out the plane performance comparison on the AH score page (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/planeperf.php). In this context, climb rate is a much more valuable indicator than top speed.


But remember: The most important tool in your box is not your plane.
It's patience.
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: RamPytho on March 03, 2010, 12:09:37 PM
if they're at the strat and the ME163 base is close, then the ME163, if it ain't I don't bother 30k buffs
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: BaldEagl on March 03, 2010, 12:52:58 PM
The Ta-152 is too prone to radiator damage IMO. 

When it get's very high, even though it's slow, I like the Bf110G-2 with the big gun package.  I've sat right in a set of B-17's fire with one taking well over 50 hits and flown away with 3 kills. 

Another option for shear firepower is the Tempest although being a relatively expensive perkie you want to be careful.

I agree that the 109K-4 works well as do the Jugs and both the Spit XIV and XVI and, of course, the ME163 if it's close by.
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: Patches1 on March 03, 2010, 01:07:59 PM
At 30,000 feet bombers in level flight have a very nice speed and fuel advantage, if they are well flown. I cannot think of a single World War II fighter that isn't challenged at that altitude with the exception of rocket powered and jet powered fighters (and they have limitations, as well).

I wrote a very long and detailed dissertation to answer your question and realized after I had written it that I had not answered your question.

So, here it is...short and sweet; it's the pilot, not the aircraft!

If you did not read the Map and DarBars correctly, if you did not anticipate the altitude of the bombers, if you did not factor in the climb rate of your aircraft, if you did not factor in fuel burn, and if you did not set an intercept course that would put you 3-5 k above the bombers and match their speed, then no aircraft will be "best"; you must visualize and set up the shot long before it happens.

Now, as to what aircraft you fly to accomplish this...that's up to you. Personally, I like the F4U Series, and I've shot down many buffs at 25-30 K in a Corsair. You may opt to fly an ME-262, or an ME-163, or a TA-152, or an A6M...it doesn't matter as long as you know the performance of your aircraft, have the skill level to fly the aircraft at 30K altitudes, and have the patience to set up the encounter.

Another keynote...I learned that if I want to know how to shoot down bombers...it's probably a good idea to learn how to fly them and defend them.

I'll stop here. There's more, but digest this first.

<S>

...just some thoughts









Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: mtnman on March 03, 2010, 01:43:50 PM
...and have the patience to set up the encounter.


Sure, it takes a long time to set up a proper attack.  But then again, it took the buffs a long time to get to where they are too.

Al of the listed planes will do just fine.  If...  you take the time to set it up.  If you don't, then even the "best" plane on the list will appear inadequate.
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: Ardy123 on March 03, 2010, 02:11:11 PM
It takes a while to get up there but I like taking the me262 way up there to hunt buffs. Also if its a strat raid, sometimes you can up a me163.
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: TonyJoey on March 03, 2010, 03:58:37 PM
If you have the patience ( I don't) to climb up to 30k with a 110, then do so. Take the rockets, and learn how to use em. If you do, you'll kill all of them while staying out of gun range. It's a blast, pun intended. :aok
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: W7LPNRICK on March 08, 2010, 10:48:22 PM
Bf-110G-2 with air to air rockets.  :salute
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: whiteman on March 09, 2010, 02:04:06 AM
during my first 9 months i use to take the 110G-2 up to 25k and go buff hunting. Can have a few beers, joke with squadies then kill some buffs when you find them. Was easier to do on maps like NDisles and the other small maps.
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: Saurdaukar on March 09, 2010, 11:20:36 AM
High alt buff killing?

Jugs.  No contest.
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: mantis on March 10, 2010, 09:32:25 AM
High alt buff killing?

Jugs.  No contest.

Ammo load, durability, zoom ability and good drop tank options make this absolutely true. I read earlier about 1 pass kills, a jug has no problem with this. Killing buffs, for me, is about beginning to apply damage ASAP from as far away as you can. You can do this with .50s much easier than with cannons. My aim is a bit off, I usually start getting hits at 800-1000, but we'll get back there!

http://www.filedropper.com/p47-8buffs (http://www.filedropper.com/p47-8buffs)

EDIT: I know this isn't quite 30k, but performance would only be better that high.
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: MutleyBR on March 13, 2010, 02:44:02 PM
Hi all!

Killing buffs with .50's is a tricky business. One needs more hits with .50's than with cannons. The time you spend there pumping .50's on the buff, makes you an easier target... :rolleyes:

I prefer to go in fast, do an initial snapshot, and get out, to repeat.

In the old days, when we had an nme attackers approaching our HQ, I would up a 109 G-14 with gondolas to after them.

Nowadays, the fashion is to fly buffs at 30.000ft or close. At that altitude If your plane is still fuel heavy, and the plane does not have enough power at those alts, you'll be a sitting duck...

So, now, I up a 109 K4 w/ 75% fuel + DT.

There was this Lanc formation at about 27,000ft. I release the DT and keep climbing, maintaining a safe distance from the buffs guns.

When higher than the nme formation,  I dive to get some E and start the attack.

Film here:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/jrymnnzfhjt/K4 vs 3 hi alt lancs.ahf (http://www.mediafire.com/file/jrymnnzfhjt/K4 vs 3 hi alt lancs.ahf)


Mutley

Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: W7LPNRICK on March 14, 2010, 04:27:13 PM
Hi all!

Killing buffs with .50's is a tricky business. One needs more hits with .50's than with cannons. The time you spend there pumping .50's on the buff, makes you an easier target... :rolleyes:


When higher than the nme formation,  I dive to get some E and start the attack.

Film here:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/jrymnnzfhjt/K4 vs 3 hi alt lancs.ahf (http://www.mediafire.com/file/jrymnnzfhjt/K4 vs 3 hi alt lancs.ahf)

Mutley


Did you watch his movie file?  :rolleyes: Do you think he loitered?  :uhoh He hit & ran as fast as anyone shooting cannons, with nearly a one pass, one kill average for 6-7 kills? Back-up what you claim with your own movie. :banana:
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: MutleyBR on March 14, 2010, 07:37:56 PM
Did you watch his movie file?  :rolleyes: Do you think he loitered?  :uhoh He hit & ran as fast as anyone shooting cannons, with nearly a one pass, one kill average for 6-7 kills? Back-up what you claim with your own movie. :banana:

Then shows us how you do it... :D  :aok
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: W7LPNRICK on March 14, 2010, 09:59:54 PM
Then shows us how you do it... :D  :aok

I like what he did, but I like 110G-2 & rocket w/ heavy guns.  :x
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: MutleyBR on March 14, 2010, 10:09:06 PM
I like what he did, but I like 110G-2 & rocket w/ heavy guns.  :x

You did, as we say here, salute using someonelse´s hat... Next time salute using your own... :aok
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: W7LPNRICK on March 15, 2010, 12:28:40 AM
You did, as we say here, salute using someonelse´s hat... Next time salute using your own... :aok

I'll do exactly as I please, thank you.  :neener:  I'll salute his fine movie clip anytime I wish and you will say any baseless thing you wish. That's what the forums for...opinions. So bite me if ya don't like it.  :aok
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: MutleyBR on March 15, 2010, 02:27:54 AM
I'll do exactly as I please, thank you.  :neener:  I'll salute his fine movie clip anytime I wish and you will say any baseless thing you wish. That's what the forums for...opinions. So bite me if ya don't like it.  :aok

I´l decline the offer... If you're so mad, bite your own forehead... That may calm you down...  :x :banana:
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: W7LPNRICK on March 15, 2010, 07:53:13 PM
Who's mad? I say Bite me! to my friends all the time.  :salute
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: Karnak on March 15, 2010, 10:15:09 PM
I agree that the 109K-4 works well as do the Jugs and both the Spit XIV and XVI and, of course, the ME163 if it's close by.
Not the Spit XVI, its performance drops off above 17000ft.  The high altitude Spitfires are the Mk IX and Mk XIV.
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: Krusty on March 15, 2010, 11:28:43 PM
Technically, yes, but even with the different engine gearing, the spit16 and the spit8 are only about 10-12mph(?) slower than the spit9.

All 3 are about 50mph slower than the Spit14, though. 14 for the winnar!


P.S. The spit16 charts show it only drops off from the spit9 at around 20-22k, not 17k.

It suffers in climb rate (less wing area) above 21K, but still outclimbs the spit9 until 25k. All that extra horsepower makes up for the lower gearing, and in the end you there's not too much difference.
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: 4deck on March 18, 2010, 12:31:57 PM
I think hunting buffs is absolutely ridiculis at 30k, It really sucks.
But if your into it, then 47M-Ta152 is prefered plane. I personnaly take the TA, but as stated before, radiator hits are a hazard more so then any other. What I like about the TA though usually a good burst gets u a kill, just line up quick, and hammer down, get out. Seriously get out of his guns range quickly. If you do get a radiator hit u may get two more passes before your a glider. But in there lies the rub. You could probable glide 5 sectors at that alt. Just trim prop. Also I only use 75% and no drop for fuel, and guns are set far out. 500 for me. You may prefer 650.
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: BaldEagl on March 19, 2010, 12:14:02 AM
I had three 20K kills one night in a Ta-152 but took radiator damage and did exactly that... glided exactly 5 sectors to land safely.

Those long wings allow the 152 to glide like no other plane in the game but I'd rather not take radiator damage to begin with.

BTW, I start hitting with the A8's 30mm's at about 800 yards.  Not much different than a .50 if you know how to aim them but a lot more powerful.

One last thing, I still prefer the Spit XVI over the IX even at extreme alt.  It's still a much stronger flyer than any buff and the .50's are better than the .303's.
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: Hawk55 on March 20, 2010, 06:48:47 AM
Back-up what you claim with your own movie. :banana:

Uhmm...that's EXACTLY what he did!  Mut, that was a nice setup and good low attack on a Lanc.  Well done!   :salute
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: groundfeeder on March 23, 2010, 11:27:25 AM
WHATEVER you choose if you have ever flown a buff try to remember the blind spots u encounter defending it,also the manuevers the enemy did to shoot u down, it seems the best buff killers get in get out twisting and pour back in again.

Also a lot of moving makes them chew up ammo quick, if u see a guy picking his shots as opposed to spraying everywhere, probably good to assume he is a vet buff pilot and take extra caution. :joystick:
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: Krusty on March 23, 2010, 12:32:15 PM
Ammo load, durability, zoom ability and good drop tank options make this absolutely true. I read earlier about 1 pass kills, a jug has no problem with this. Killing buffs, for me, is about beginning to apply damage ASAP from as far away as you can. You can do this with .50s much easier than with cannons. My aim is a bit off, I usually start getting hits at 800-1000, but we'll get back there!

Here's the issue... "What if" you could only take the light ammo option (6 or 8 guns still up to you) on those jugs? Would you do it with ~300 rounds per gun only?

the 400+rpg option (which 90% of the game uses) were never available on Ns or Ms, and only one group of P-47Ds (D-30s or 40s, I can't recall) EVER used it for ground strafing duties. Given a historical correction of AH loadouts, would you still fly it? You couldn't open up so far out and spray away and expect to get more than 1 bomber, maybe 2.
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: MutleyBR on March 23, 2010, 01:29:39 PM
Hi all!

Truth is, give the absurd altitudes those buffs are flying nowadays(last encounter was 35000ft and climbing...) no matter what plane one uses to attack those buffs, it will take a loooong time to reach them.  :rolleyes:

And if you reach them, attacking them alone is a tricky bussiness. Best way to attack buffs, is with at least 2 fighters, to divide gunner's attention. And few will lose their time doing it.

This excessive time, lost in climbing, can be used having fun elsewhere...  :aok

From now I will not go after high bombers anymore. Let them spend their $14.95 having fun comutting from A to B, alone...  :neener:

Mutley

Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: Ardy123 on March 23, 2010, 01:31:55 PM
Hi all!

Truth is, give the absurd altitudes those buffs are flying nowadays(last encounter was 35000ft and climbing...) no matter what plane one uses to attack those buffs, it will take a loooong time to reach them.  :rolleyes:

And if you reach them, attacking them alone is a tricky bussiness. Best way to attack buffs, is with at least 2 fighters, to divide gunner's attention. And few will lose their time doing it.

This excessive time, lost in climbing, can be used having fun elsewhere...  :aok

From now I will not go after high bombers anymore. Let them spend their $14.95 having fun comutting from A to B, alone...  :neener:

Mutley




solution... up a 262 from a base 2 sectors away and spend 15min climbing to 35 k, then dive in on them from above.
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: MutleyBR on March 23, 2010, 01:42:58 PM

solution... up a 262 from a base 2 sectors away and spend 15min climbing to 35 k, then dive in on them from above.

By the time I reached the formation it was at 38k...

Am I going to risk losing 200+ perks to a ping???  :rolleyes:

Nahhhhh let them be.... :x

Mutley  :salute
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: Krusty on March 23, 2010, 02:04:59 PM
262 cannot fly 28k, let alone 30k+
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: MutleyBR on March 23, 2010, 02:07:09 PM
262 cannot fly 28k, let alone 30k+


 :aok  :x  :salute

Mutley
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: Ardy123 on March 23, 2010, 02:09:19 PM
262 cannot fly 28k, let alone 30k+

I haven't tested in the game, but according to wikipeda its 37,565 ft max.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_262
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: Krusty on March 23, 2010, 02:31:00 PM
Wiki is wrong, heheh..
As-modeled in game, it cannot climb above 30K (I've tried getting to 32k lancs in the MA before, just criss-crossed under them for 15 minutes before quitting), and if you get to 30K, you can't bank your wings to turn very easily without loss. On top of that, your "turn" is really something almost a sector wide. A few times in the FSO I've done 262 scouting in late war setups. It's a total pig up there, barely able to fly. 109K4 way way better.

Then again, bombers in this game fly higher and faster than they did in the real war, so it's not as much a slam against the 262, as it is that the buffs are just that much better.
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: Ardy123 on March 23, 2010, 03:08:25 PM
I think its the game that's wrong... according to many websites so far, the ceiling is 37k, maybe HiTech or Pyro can chime in here...

http://www.deutsches-museum.de/en/collections/transport/aeronautics/jets/messerschmitt-me-262/
http://www.fighter-planes.com/info/me262.htm
http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=108
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/fighter/me262/
http://www.economicexpert.com/a/Messerschmitt:Me:262:AQ.htm
and
http://contrails.iit.edu/features/aircraft/ME-262/index.html

Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: Krusty on March 23, 2010, 03:11:40 PM
What's the definition of "ceiling"?

There's a "ceiling" of over 40,000 feet on the Ta-152... But practically you're not going to be able to do much over 35K.

So maybe if you left it on autopilot for 2 hours it might get up to 35k or so, or if you spend 15 minutes gaining speed, do a burst zoom, then try leveling out again for 10 minutes, you might creep up to that 37k limit.

I think the limit on the 262 was more theoretical based off of the engines' performance.
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: Ardy123 on March 23, 2010, 03:20:42 PM
What's the definition of "ceiling"?

Assuming that both planes use the same definition of ceiling, then the 262 should be able to get above most of the bombers in the game. The service ceiling for the normal bombers are..

B-17: Service ceiling: 35,600 ft (10,850 m)
sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-17_Flying_Fortress
http://www.aviation-history.com/boeing/b17.html
http://www.boeing.com/history/boeing/b17.html

B-24: 28,000 ft - 32,000 ft
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-24_Liberator
http://www.acepilots.com/planes/b24.html
http://www.warbirdalley.com/b24.htm

Lancaster: 23,500 ft
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Lancaster
http://www.aviation-history.com/avro/683.html
http://www.warbirdalley.com/lanc.htm
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: BaldEagl on March 23, 2010, 03:25:17 PM
What's the definition of "ceiling"?

Service ceiling
It is the density altitude at which flying in a clean configuration, at the best rate of climb airspeed for that altitude and with all engines operating and producing maximum continuous power, will produce a 100 feet per minute climb.

Absolute ceiling
The highest altitude an aeroplane can sustain level flight, which means the altitude at which the thrust of the engines at full power is equal to the total drag at minimum drag speed.

Combat ceiling
It is the highest altitude at which an aircraft is expected to have a 500 feet per minute climb

Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: MutleyBR on March 23, 2010, 03:31:08 PM
In AH, as it is, bombers are flying well above the stated ceilings.  :rolleyes:

Until they fix it, they will be just a part of the scenery for me.  :airplane:

Mutley  :salute
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: Ardy123 on March 23, 2010, 03:33:56 PM
In AH, as it is, bombers are flying well above the stated ceilings.  :rolleyes:

Until they fix it, they will be just a part of the scenery for me.  :airplane:

Mutley  :salute

Fair, did you file a bug report so it can be fixed?
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: Krusty on March 23, 2010, 03:45:43 PM
They don't care.

My comment "what's the definition of a ceiling" was NOT a serious question for "I dunno what that is" -- it was rhetorical folks.
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: Ardy123 on March 23, 2010, 04:14:07 PM
They don't care.

That's harsh considering AH is their bread and butter. Have you tried and I'm just not seeing the bbs post?
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: Krusty on March 23, 2010, 04:35:00 PM
Bombers are given many benefits they never had, through the way AH currently models things. Formations, laser-slaved gunfire, all guns pointing in one direction, laser accurate bombsights, no engine problems, full throttle all the time (in the case of the B-167G it's nonstop WEP, last I recall) and because no bomber flew with less than full gas in the real war, and no bomber flies with more than 25% in th MAs (except the 1% minority that take 50% gas) it is faster and climbs much faster than historically correct.

All of these things have been brought up countless times, and in general HTC (in my own words, not theirs) coddles the bombers to prevent folks from avoiding them. A way of promoting use, perhaps, that flies in the face of everything else they've done with the fighters in the game.
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: mantis on March 26, 2010, 11:35:59 PM
Here's the issue... "What if" you could only take the light ammo option (6 or 8 guns still up to you) on those jugs? Would you do it with ~300 rounds per gun only?

the 400+rpg option (which 90% of the game uses) were never available on Ns or Ms, and only one group of P-47Ds (D-30s or 40s, I can't recall) EVER used it for ground strafing duties. Given a historical correction of AH loadouts, would you still fly it? You couldn't open up so far out and spray away and expect to get more than 1 bomber, maybe 2.

I wasn't arguing the historical gun packages, I was answering the OPs question. Regardless, yes I would still take the jug, 6 or 8 guns, because of durability. The ammo wouldn't be much less, and I really don't "spray" anyways(just the first pass to get my angle down, sorta). Additionally these aren't soft B24s, these are all b17 and lanc kills, no rearms. Not sure if you actually watched the link before it died, but I think I have a permanent one for it now:

http://www.filedropper.com/p47-8buffs (http://www.filedropper.com/p47-8buffs)

Anyways, less rounds would have meant maybe 1 less kill, though I adjust to what I have to work with, so unlikely. 8 buffs, 1 run, and the people flying them aren't noobs to bombers/bombing. So yea, I would still take the p47 and still believe it very easily outperforms any other aircraft in game terms for pure buff hunting.
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: Black Jack on April 06, 2010, 06:30:59 PM
You are right Mantis but I already did an 7 kill run vs b24's, lancs and b17's pretty much like the one u posted. Not sure which P47 I had but I took all the bullets i could bring.   :D Big factor here was their altitude. All good when they are below 15k but one hell of a different story when they are at 30k. Fighters I tried up to now couldn't fly much up there, not enough anyways to be able to make passes from higher up so u basically have to outshoot them from behind. Doesn't take anything away from your sortie though. Nice job :aok
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: kingcobradude on April 06, 2010, 06:34:42 PM
I usually use p38 (which was a bomber destroyer), jug, or pony. IF I have enough warning, or want to do a long range bomber intercept, I will use b25h
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: Yossarian on April 06, 2010, 09:13:08 PM
I usually use p38 (which was a bomber destroyer), jug, or pony. IF I have enough warning, or want to do a long range bomber intercept, I will use b25h

Do you actually have any success using the B-25H in this role?  I've always found that it's unsuited for this task (even though the 75mm is SO powerful), since it climbs far too slowly, the bombers can often outrun you, it's a massive target if they get you ranged, and IMO it's hugely difficult to aim the gun accurately enough.
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: kingcobradude on April 06, 2010, 09:42:20 PM
have alt advantage, get them far from your base. gives plenty of time to climb. speed matches most buffs while using WEP, and you just need more practice with the gun, and it helps to carry a gunner
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: kingcobradude on April 06, 2010, 09:43:02 PM
and yes I have had success doing that.
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: thorsim on April 07, 2010, 10:54:24 AM
I haven't tested in the game, but according to wikipeda its 37,565 ft max.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_262

i have sources that say the a8 is operational to that altitude as well ...

but not so much in the game ...

Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: thorsim on April 07, 2010, 10:59:39 AM
What's the definition of "ceiling"?

There's a "ceiling" of over 40,000 feet on the Ta-152... But practically you're not going to be able to do much over 35K.

So maybe if you left it on autopilot for 2 hours it might get up to 35k or so, or if you spend 15 minutes gaining speed, do a burst zoom, then try leveling out again for 10 minutes, you might creep up to that 37k limit.

I think the limit on the 262 was more theoretical based off of the engines' performance.

 it has to do with average climb rate, when a planes climb rate deteriorates to i think 1k feet per min it is considered to be at its operational ceiling 500FPM it is at its "max ceiling" although i have heard some different numbers  used by different testers ...

i am not positive here so feel free to correct ...
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: thorsim on April 07, 2010, 11:02:06 AM
it has to do with average climb rate, when a planes climb rate deteriorates to i think 1k feet per min it is considered to be at its operational ceiling 500FPM it is at its "max ceiling" although i have heard some different numbers  used by different testers ...

i am not positive here so feel free to correct ...
Service ceiling
It is the density altitude at which flying in a clean configuration, at the best rate of climb airspeed for that altitude and with all engines operating and producing maximum continuous power, will produce a 100 feet per minute climb.

Absolute ceiling
The highest altitude an aeroplane can sustain level flight, which means the altitude at which the thrust of the engines at full power is equal to the total drag at minimum drag speed.

Combat ceiling
It is the highest altitude at which an aircraft is expected to have a 500 feet per minute climb



oops there ya go BE knows i will go with his numbers ...

Service ceiling
It is the density altitude at which flying in a clean configuration, at the best rate of climb airspeed for that altitude and with all engines operating and producing maximum continuous power, will produce a 100 feet per minute climb.

Absolute ceiling
The highest altitude an aeroplane can sustain level flight, which means the altitude at which the thrust of the engines at full power is equal to the total drag at minimum drag speed.

Combat ceiling
It is the highest altitude at which an aircraft is expected to have a 500 feet per minute climb


Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: Krusty on April 08, 2010, 02:57:12 PM
it was rhetorical folks.
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: Eagleclaw on April 11, 2010, 03:43:40 PM
I prefer the 109K-4 myself, just be CERTAIN on where you place them taters, you don't have many of them to begin with. Ta-152 is also a nice option, the 109K-4 is just personal preference, though.
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: Wagger on April 20, 2010, 07:02:56 PM
I agree with Eagleclaw.  The Bf 109K-4 is my favorite.  I started using it almost exclusively last month. I always take off full fuel with drop tank.  Burn 1/4 internal fuel then transition to external drop tank.  I always attempt to climb to 30K then start looking for the fight or any buffs that happen to come along.  I prefer slashing attacks from high 10-2 o'clock.  K-4 has plenty of power to regain alt and catch back up to buffs.  Lancs I prefer to attack by starting at High 6 diving down below them and then zooming up to hit unprotected belly. 
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: Ack-Ack on April 21, 2010, 06:20:22 PM
I usually use p38 (which was a bomber destroyer), jug, or pony. IF I have enough warning, or want to do a long range bomber intercept, I will use b25h

Only a n00b would use a B-25H as a buff hunter.  It would be like using a Stuka to hunt goons. 

Oh, the P-38 was designed as an interceptor not as a "bomber destroyer".  The reason it was designed as an 'interceptor' was to get around the USAAC's inflexible requirement of pursuit planes being limited to only 500lb of armament (including ammunition) as well as a single seat aircraft limited to a single engine.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: Ack-Ack on April 21, 2010, 06:21:05 PM
Do you actually have any success using the B-25H in this role? 

No he doesn't.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: Ack-Ack on April 21, 2010, 06:21:45 PM
have alt advantage, get them far from your base. gives plenty of time to climb. speed matches most buffs while using WEP, and you just need more practice with the gun, and it helps to carry a gunner

Speed does not match most bombers when using WEP. 

ack-ack
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: Yossarian on April 21, 2010, 09:18:51 PM
No he doesn't.

ack-ack

I already knew that  ;)
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: ariansworld on April 21, 2010, 10:42:44 PM
My thoughts on this.  I tend to fly the TA152 for buff hunting.  I take 100% and a Drop Tank.  I let it auto climb to 30k or so, and anything underneath me is fair game.  If I see a set of buffs in front of me at 20k while I am at 30k, I will wait untill I am almost over top of them then dive.  I find that by doing that you dont have to hardly use any munitions.  I aim for the wingroot at the top, I fire a short burst in this area and the buff will usually catch on fire.  I then zoom back up and repeat.  You do that, it is hard for the buff to hit you.   Another tactic is to come in on their high 12, dive in and HO them.
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: Kenne on April 26, 2010, 06:47:27 PM
My thoughts on this.  I tend to fly the TA152 for buff hunting.  I take 100% and a Drop Tank.  I let it auto climb to 30k or so, and anything underneath me is fair game.  If I see a set of buffs in front of me at 20k while I am at 30k, I will wait untill I am almost over top of them then dive.  I find that by doing that you dont have to hardly use any munitions.  I aim for the wingroot at the top, I fire a short burst in this area and the buff will usually catch on fire.  I then zoom back up and repeat.  You do that, it is hard for the buff to hit you.   Another tactic is to come in on their high 12, dive in and HO them.

 :aok
I always make vertical dive attacks on buffs. hopefully near the target as that gets them 'head down' in the BS.
But i wonder it the 8 50s on the 47, thro out the same 'destructive power' as the 20s/30s of the 152??

personally, i take the 51, the 47 just takes too long to climb.
Title: Re: Best plane for high alt buff killing
Post by: Lusche on April 26, 2010, 07:10:59 PM
But i wonder it the 8 50s on the 47, thro out the same 'destructive power' as the 20s/30s of the 152??

Not per second... but in a way it's more an academical question as a P-47's firepower is still more than adequate at killing buffs. ;)
And if counting in ammo capacity, the P-47 is carrying more destructive power around than the 152.