Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Serenity on March 23, 2010, 02:04:33 AM

Title: Court Date
Post by: Serenity on March 23, 2010, 02:04:33 AM
For those of you who remember the old speeding ticket thread, my first court date is tomorrow. Just thought I would let you all know.
Title: Re: Court Date
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 23, 2010, 03:16:24 AM
For those of you who remember the old speeding ticket thread, my first court date is tomorrow. Just thought I would let you all know.

Whew...glad you did.  I was on pins and needles and now I can rest easy knowing all is well in the world.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Court Date
Post by: kilo2 on March 23, 2010, 03:49:45 AM
Better hope the cop does not show up and it is dismissed.
Title: Re: Court Date
Post by: Serenity on March 23, 2010, 04:35:46 AM
Whew...glad you did.  I was on pins and needles and now I can rest easy knowing all is well in the world.


ack-ack

I'm glad to know I set your mind at ease!

However, in an honest answer to your sarcasm, quite a few members asked to be kept up to date on this, so that's what Im doing.
Title: Re: Court Date
Post by: VonMessa on March 23, 2010, 05:06:56 AM
Better hope the cop does not show up and it is dismissed.

Don't bank on this.

That does not always apply.

Some municipalities, have an officer appointed as a representative for all police in their particular jurisdiction.  He gets briefed the morning of, with all facts regarding the cases pending for the day.

It saves the municipality manpower and $$$.
Title: Re: Court Date
Post by: Serenity on March 23, 2010, 05:47:37 AM
Don't bank on this.

That does not always apply.

Some municipalities, have an officer appointed as a representative for all police in their particular jurisdiction.  He gets briefed the morning of, with all facts regarding the cases pending for the day.

It saves the municipality manpower and $$$.

Can't you fight that though? Bill of Rights says you may face your accuser in a court of law. An accuser cannot be appointed to my knowledge...
Title: Re: Court Date
Post by: Regular on March 23, 2010, 06:15:58 AM
For those of you who remember the old speeding ticket thread, my first court date is tomorrow. Just thought I would let you all know.


I hate people who don't know how to drive.
Title: Re: Court Date
Post by: skribetm on March 23, 2010, 06:21:21 AM
Can't you fight that though? Bill of Rights says you may face your accuser in a court of law. An accuser cannot be appointed to my knowledge...

the state/local govt is your accuser, not the cop personally.
Title: Re: Court Date
Post by: JunkyII on March 23, 2010, 06:23:49 AM
the state/local govt is your accuser, not the cop personally.
Yep the cop is just a long crooked arm of the Gov./mayor/ect......that can touch you and your wallet :t
Title: Re: Court Date
Post by: VonMessa on March 23, 2010, 07:22:45 AM
the state/local govt is your accuser, not the cop personally.

Precisely.   :aok

Around here it would be.....

Commonwealth of Pennsylvania (or relevant municipality) vs. Poor Slob going too fast.

The most likely situation is that you will be offered a plea, right off the bat (i.e. Lesser speed and lesser fine, but the municipality still gets revenue, and a conviction)  Most folks will take the offer and run with it.  If you have balls and are lucky, you can bargain for a little more (i.e. a non-point violation) as having points against your license will jack your insurance rates, making the citation cost way more in the long run than what is written upon it.  Bear in mind, that if you don't take the offer and are found guilty, you will be paying the full fine and getting all the points that the violation carries.

However, if you feel you have a good chance of beating it and are well prepared, there is no reason not to fight it.  The worst case is that you are found guilty of exactly what you were cited for.  Nothing more, nothing less.

Using a "set" police officer to represent the municipality is usually used in situations where  there is a high volume of citations issued.  Without this representative there, there would be less of a chance of the issuing officer being present (i.e. being on-duty at time of hearing, having a day off and not wanting to come to work, etc)  It's cheaper for the govt, and usually gives them the same chance of winning, in most cases.

However, if you contest the citation, this gives you a better chance of winning because it is also a crap shoot for them.  They gamble on the preparedness of the issuing officer.  The only testimony or evidence that the "representative" is permitted to offer is what the issuing officer has in their written report.  He had better have a well prepared report that covers all his bases.  If one has a legitimate defense (for example: questioning the calibration of the device used to clock your speed) and the issuing officer has not provided proof of this (not a great example, as most DO include this certificate) then there really is no chance of rebuttal on the part of the municipality.  The "representative" cannot offer verbal testimony as he/she was not there.  The burden of proof lies with the prosecution.  If they cannot prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that you are indeed guilty, with the facts that they have, then the Judge will have no choice but to find you not-guilty.  He may not like doing it, he may give the issuing officer an earful in private the next time he sees him, but what do you care?

This is very simplified, and I not an attorney by any stretch of the imagination.  This is from research, advice from my own counsel and practical application of my rights as a US Citizen.

Perhaps Oldman or some other community member that IS an attorney can lend some credence to this?

(** Edited for punctuation and grammar  ** )
Title: Re: Court Date
Post by: DREDIOCK on March 23, 2010, 07:28:55 AM
For those of you who remember the old speeding ticket thread, my first court date is tomorrow. Just thought I would let you all know.

So I'm guessing you want us to bake you a cake with a file in it?  ;)

BTW, make sure you bring the money with you to be able to pay the fine.

Judges can get rather testy when you loose and you dont.
Title: Re: Court Date
Post by: CAP1 on March 23, 2010, 07:32:20 AM
Can't you fight that though? Bill of Rights says you may face your accuser in a court of law. An accuser cannot be appointed to my knowledge...

i believe you can, although i'm not sure. here in new jersey, it HAS to be the officer that wrote ya.


good luck dude.
Title: Re: Court Date
Post by: CAP1 on March 23, 2010, 07:33:13 AM
the state/local govt is your accuser, not the cop personally.

the cop personally will need to be there to verify he has the proper training in the usage of the laser, and that it was calibrated properly.
Title: Re: Court Date
Post by: CAP1 on March 23, 2010, 07:39:21 AM
Precisely.   :aok

Around here it would be.....

Commonwealth of Pennsylvania (or relevant municipality) vs. Poor Slob going too fast.

The most likely situation is that you will be offered a plea, right off the bat (i.e. Lesser speed and lesser fine, but the municipality still gets revenue, and a conviction)  Most folks will take the offer and run with it.  If you have balls and are lucky, you can bargain for a little more (i.e. a non-point violation) as having points against your license will jack your insurance rates, making the citation cost way more in the long run than what is written upon it.  Bear in mind, that if you don't take the offer and are found guilty, you will be paying the full fine and getting all the points that the violation carries.

However, if you feel you have a good chance of beating it and are well prepared, there is no reason not to fight it.  The worst case is that you are found guilty of exactly what you were cited for.  Nothing more, nothing less.

Using a "set" police officer to represent the municipality is usually used in situations where  there is a high volume of citations issued.  Without this representative there, there would be less of a chance of the issuing officer being present (i.e. being on-duty at time of hearing, having a day off and not wanting to come to work, etc)  It's cheaper for the govt, and usually gives them the same chance of winning, in most cases.

However, if you contest the citation, this gives you a better chance of winning because it is also a crap shoot for them.  They gamble on the preparedness of the issuing officer.  The only testimony or evidence that the "representative" is permitted to offer is what the issuing officer has in their written report.  He had better have a well prepared report that covers all his bases.  If one has a legitimate defense (for example: questioning the calibration of the device used to clock your speed) and the issuing officer has not provided proof of this (not a great example, as most DO include this certificate) then there really is no chance of rebuttal on the part of the municipality.  The "representative" cannot offer verbal testimony as he/she was not there.  The burden of proof lies with the prosecution.  If they cannot prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that you are indeed guilty, with the facts that they have, then the Judge will have no choice but to find you not-guilty.  He may not like doing it, he may give the issuing officer an earful in private the next time he sees him, but what do you care?

This is very simplified, and I not an attorney by any stretch of the imagination.  This is from research, advice from my own counsel and practical application of my rights as a US Citizen.

Perhaps Oldman or some other community member that IS an attorney can lend some credence to this?

(** Edited for punctuation and grammar  ** )

ya know?

i just drove up to hershey on sunday, for some parts for my fairmont.

 crossing the walt whitman.......good.......ran straight up 76 till it merged with vine st/schukill expressway. about a mile or 2 before girard ave. exit(i think...where the zoo is), traffic went to crap. both lanes not moving over 20 mph for no reason.....till i got almost to plymouth meeting. from there on, it was smooth sailing, especially on the turnpike.
 was an enjoyable drive after that. 75-80mph all the way, no traffic jams, and the best part? there were plenty of people going faster than me, so there was never a worry of getting tagged by the state pd.  :aok
Title: Re: Court Date
Post by: VonMessa on March 23, 2010, 07:47:42 AM
Shame on you for not stopping by for a beer  :P

The reason for all the traffic being slow is the inability for drivers to grasp the (apparently difficult for them, anyhow) concept of merging. 

PA State troopers don't like stopping folks in the rain.  They know those condoms they put on their "Smokey-the-Bear" hats looks silly  :rofl
Title: Re: Court Date
Post by: uptown on March 23, 2010, 07:50:04 AM
I had a court date once. I didn't get back homw for 2 yrs.  Now THAT was a bad day  :lol
Title: Re: Court Date
Post by: VonMessa on March 23, 2010, 08:10:26 AM
I had a court date once. I didn't get back homw for 2 yrs.  Now THAT was a bad day  :lol


I hope you had your soap on-a-rope   :D

 :noid
Title: Re: Court Date
Post by: uptown on March 23, 2010, 08:14:18 AM

I hope you had your soap on-a-rope   :D

 :noid
Nope. Soap in a sock  clears a shower pretty quick  :rock
Title: Re: Court Date
Post by: CAP1 on March 23, 2010, 08:41:04 AM
Shame on you for not stopping by for a beer  :P

The reason for all the traffic being slow is the inability for drivers to grasp the (apparently difficult for them, anyhow) concept of merging. 

PA State troopers don't like stopping folks in the rain.  They know those condoms they put on their "Smokey-the-Bear" hats looks silly  :rofl

yep....that is what i was seeing.......people not knowing how to let others in.,....and people not knowing how to attain highway speed to seamlessly merge.

 i thought about it, but was an hour late leaving............and it was sunny and 75 on sunday.  :D
Title: Re: Court Date
Post by: VonMessa on March 23, 2010, 08:57:23 AM
yep....that is what i was seeing.......people not knowing how to let others in.,....and people not knowing how to attain highway speed to seamlessly merge.

 i thought about it, but was an hour late leaving............and it was sunny and 75 on sunday.  :D

Oops, was out of work Monday, so I keep thinking yesterday was Sunday  :noid

PA Staties are pretty cool.  If you are going with the flow, not passing everything in sight, or are not driving like an ass, they usually don't bother you.
Title: Re: Court Date
Post by: CAP1 on March 23, 2010, 09:17:12 AM
Oops, was out of work Monday, so I keep thinking yesterday was Sunday  :noid

PA Staties are pretty cool.  If you are going with the flow, not passing everything in sight, or are not driving like an ass, they usually don't bother you.

yea...........that's as it should be really....and i wasn't. at the speeds i mentioned, i was mostly riding the right lane..........going into the left occasionally to pass.......i think i only saw one marked, and one unmarked the entire way.
Title: Re: Court Date
Post by: VonMessa on March 23, 2010, 09:23:14 AM
Most "speeding" tickets can be avoided (besides the obvious way of NOT speeding) by straight-up asking the officer (before he writes the citation) if he could cut you a break and give you a citation that doesn't carry points.  Unless you were a sweetheart to him/her from the beginning, most will go for it.
Title: Re: Court Date
Post by: Serenity on March 23, 2010, 03:42:33 PM
Well, I'm home. As I walked up to answer to the judge, the prosecutor dropped 5mph off the speed, turning it from excessive speeding (A criminal charge) to just plain speeding. I took the offer and the judge dropped another 5 making it slightly less speeding. The final verdict: 18mph over the speed limit and a $147 fine.
Title: Re: Court Date
Post by: Masherbrum on March 23, 2010, 04:12:02 PM
Well, I'm home. As I walked up to answer to the judge, the prosecutor dropped 5mph off the speed, turning it from excessive speeding (A criminal charge) to just plain speeding. I took the offer and the judge dropped another 5 making it slightly less speeding. The final verdict: 18mph over the speed limit and a $147 fine.

That was still a BS ticket, but you came out farther ahead.
Title: Re: Court Date
Post by: nirvana on March 23, 2010, 04:32:57 PM
I've had worse. :aok
Title: Re: Court Date
Post by: Bodhi on March 23, 2010, 04:39:59 PM
106 in a 50.  =)
Title: Re: Court Date
Post by: CAP1 on March 23, 2010, 08:36:48 PM
Well, I'm home. As I walked up to answer to the judge, the prosecutor dropped 5mph off the speed, turning it from excessive speeding (A criminal charge) to just plain speeding. I took the offer and the judge dropped another 5 making it slightly less speeding. The final verdict: 18mph over the speed limit and a $147 fine.


 THat ticket was bs........and it';s kinda obvious by the fact that they let ya off like that, they only wanted money.

 when i was your age, i'd have fought that.....but these days, you probably made the better decision.  :aok
Title: Re: Court Date
Post by: CAP1 on March 23, 2010, 08:37:34 PM
106 in a 50.  =)

i've never been caught any of the times i was over 100.  :noid
Title: Re: Court Date
Post by: captain1ma on March 23, 2010, 08:44:08 PM
how about 157mph in a 55mph? by the way, the broken line in the middle of the road turns solid at 140mph!
Title: Re: Court Date
Post by: Jayhawk on March 23, 2010, 09:38:19 PM
Handled excellently.  :aok
Title: Re: Court Date
Post by: CAP1 on March 23, 2010, 10:33:04 PM
how about 157mph in a 55mph? by the way, the broken line in the middle of the road turns solid at 140mph!

i had it a little easier......was in the middle lane of rt 295 southbound.

and i know. still didn't get caught.  :aok
Title: Re: Court Date
Post by: CAP1 on March 24, 2010, 12:52:03 AM
sheesh!!!

talk about luck..........

trooper sitting on the southbound side of 295...where they NEVER sit...construction zone posted 45 mph....i was still doin 80...and no, there were no crews working, or i'd have been slowed down.........
 thank GOD he was either asleep, or couldn't figure out if it was me or the hyundai next to me....
Title: Re: Court Date
Post by: kilo2 on March 24, 2010, 09:40:54 AM
Worst I have had is 97 in a 70 license got suspended for 30 days. Weird thing is my insurance has dropped and I have at least 8 tickets. Got a letter  in the mail from the state though if i get another point on my license in the next 2 years its suspended indefinitely :confused:. Its cost me a lot of time and money so don't do it kiddos not worth it.

Title: Re: Court Date
Post by: JunkyII on March 25, 2010, 07:05:30 PM
i had it a little easier......was in the middle lane of rt 295 southbound.

and i know. still didn't get caught.  :aok
sheesh!!!

talk about luck..........

trooper sitting on the southbound side of 295...where they NEVER sit...construction zone posted 45 mph....i was still doin 80...and no, there were no crews working, or i'd have been slowed down.........
 thank GOD he was either asleep, or couldn't figure out if it was me or the hyundai next to me....
You could have got this in one  :aok