Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: grizz441 on March 26, 2010, 06:12:54 PM
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Imo, some players think 1v1 skill is the end all be all and negate other very important factors. Here are the most important skills that will dictate 'success' which in itself is a subjective term:
1v1 Ability:
Practicing 1v1s will obviously teach you ACM in a very controlled environment which can then be applied to more dynamic MA situations. Imo 1v1 takes the most fundamental ACM knowledge to be successful at, but isn't necessarily the most important skill in the MA in being successful. Being a 1v1 artist doesn't necessarily mean you can handle a 1vX, since a 1v1 requires no global awareness other than the fight at hand.
Aiming:
Probably just as important as ones ability to 1v1 is how well you can aim. Think of situations where you start off in a 1v1 with an enemy on the fray of icon range. You miss a couple easy shots and all of a sudden it's a 2v1. You kill the first guy on your third try but now the other con has you saddled and dead to rights. Had you killed that bogey on the first try, you would have been able to engage the 2nd con when he was 3k out. Getting ganged in the MA is directly correlative to one's failure to dispose of threats in a situation they deemed safe. The speed at which you eliminate threats in the MA will ultimately dictate if you get ganged.
Situation Awareness:
(a)
This is the most instinctual and experience based skill set of them all. Decision making in a multi plane environment. With every decision made comes Risk/Reward. Reward can be defined as a kill, risk defined as death. Accurate risk/reward assessment is something that can only come with experience. Aggression can also be defined as ones decision based on their risk/reward assessment. For example, if one engages four cons despite deciding he has less than a 10% chance of survival, this would be insanely aggressive. On the other side of the coin, if one avoids an engagement because he has a 10% chance of death, this would be insanely passive. All of these variables can be juggled into maximizing an individuals killing efficiency.
(b)
Another important aspect of SA, the rate at which you check your views. How many times/minute do you check all your views? This number is directly correlative to how clear your understanding of your surrounding is. You can never check your views too often and if you consistently are missing threats, you need to increase the rate at which you check your views.
Teamwork:
How well does one set up bogeys for his allies and how well does he use his allies for easy kills? You could call this being an 'opportunist', knowing the exact time to engage a con when he is clearly preoccupied or in an very unfavorable position, but this is actually a skill, being able to see this stuff.
Boom and Zoom:
How well does one retain advantage against overwhelming odds below him? Anybody can dive in and kill someone, but I evaluate one's B&Z ability in being able to kill bogeys below while being able to keep an advantage over the swarm. Diving in, turning, and getting ganged would be an extremely poor use of this altitude advantage.
Dogfighting:
Being able to stay alive in a dogfight where multiple cons are trying to turn/B&z you. I would argue this skill is actually the pinnacle of being versatile in all other sets, 1v1, Aiming, SA, all of which are equally important to being adequate in this skill. You can be a great 1v1 pilot but end up ultimately being inadequate in a dogfight due to lack of SA or aim. There's nothing great about saddling up a bogey just to get picked by one you didn't see.
These are the skills of a fighter as I see them in the MA. Imo, the ones who are most versatile in all the skills listed are the better pilots, not just being great in any one category. What do you consider in defining one's skill?
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I have allways been skilles.
Mostly flying lonewolf.
Looking safe kill for start and then fly and kill as many a have ammo and hopefully land.
Timid 109k flying is my way(as you have stated) , maybe right you are.
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I think your last point about staying alive in the dogfight is an over all reflection on all other points, if you can do that you need to be skilled in all aspects, so :cheers: to those of you that can do it consistently.
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The ability to log on, night after night and have fun without diminishing another's.
That is a skill worth respecting.
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Diving in, turning, and getting ganged would be an extremely poor use of this altitude advantage.
LEROY JENKINS!
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1v1 Ability:
Aiming:
Situation Awareness:
Teamwork:
Boom and Zoom:
Dogfighting:
:(
I got none of those
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The ability to log on, night after night and have fun without diminishing another's.
That is a skill worth respecting.
Amen
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In my opinion each of those areas have their own skill factors and can't be put in the same barrel...unless of course you are looking at an overall of this particular game...and those like it....then how do you measure the skill....that is easy...the person who can play the game to it's fullest and this show via the score....however...you have separated each area and this then comes down to the specific factors of each area....how you define skill for these is hard...each person has their own Idea...if there were exacting standards then this would become easier...
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The ability to log on, night after night and have fun without diminishing another's.
That is a skill worth respecting.
For some people, logging on and flying around is good enough, and that's fine. For others who are more competitive, there is a motivation to perform at a high level. Personally, I find it more enjoyable to shoot down more bad guys than shoot me down, but that's just how I have fun because I am competitive :)
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In my opinion each of those areas have their own skill factors and can't be put in the same barrel...unless of course you are looking at an overall of this particular game...and those like it....then how do you measure the skill....that is easy...the person who can play the game to it's fullest and this show via the score....however...you have separated each area and this then comes down to the specific factors of each area....how you define skill for these is hard...each person has their own Idea...if there were exacting standards then this would become easier...
The reason you can put them together is because despite all our attempts to localize to our strengths, the amount of unknowns in the MA always forces us into tricky spots that only a versatile pilot will be able to manage effectively.
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As was pointed out to me by Drewster after I shot him and his 2 buddies down in a 3v1, I have no skill. As such, whatever I consider to be skill is a moot point since I lack the basic qualifications to pontificate as to what I consider to be skill. Maybe one day if I ever achieve such a level that can be considered to be 'skillful' will I be able to enter into this debate. I have a feeling though that I will never achieve these heights in my lifetime.
ack-ack
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Of all those skillsets, Situation Awareness is maybe the most complex and somewhat vague, because it combines several abilities or "skills"
For example there is the immediate tacical sitation, but also the overall "battle", or "map awareness" for things happening outside your immediate vicinity. The boundaries between those are fluid
For myself, I have come to the terms situational awareness and "battle intelligence"
The former is tracking of all enemy & friendly cons, checking your six, creating a inner picture of the fight. This is an ability I'm lacking very much, because I have big problems thinking truly 3-dimensional. Once I take away my eyes from a con it's almost as if I knew nothing about him. That's why I truly suck in a fight vs multiple enemies. I have to concentrate on one, and that is what kills me.
On the other hand, I'm quite good in judging the bigger picture: How is this particular battle going, what altitude will the enemy probably be at, what's the best way out when things go wrong, what's the particular strength of my plane in this situation, where is this enemy mission going to that has a darbar 3 sectors back, where can I meet it and at what altitude, and so on.
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What is skill?
Anything or anyone besides me.
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You forgot a very important one I think. The computer. Sure one needs great hand/eye coordination, knowledge of BFMs and must be smart, but having a sporty rig don't hurt either. :)
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I can tell the precise time of every fight that my plane will explode. That's real SA skill. :aok
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As was pointed out to me by Drewster after I shot him and his 2 buddies down in a 3v1, I have no skill. As such, whatever I consider to be skill is a moot point since I lack the basic qualifications to pontificate as to what I consider to be skill. Maybe one day if I ever achieve such a level that can be considered to be 'skillful' will I be able to enter into this debate. I have a feeling though that I will never achieve these heights in my lifetime.
ack-ack
I'm glad you're finally coming to your senses. :devil
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I'm glad you're finally coming to your senses. :devil
It took me 17 years but finally Drewster's PMs to me after I shot him down made me see the light. I feel so foolish now.
ack-ack
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The ability to log on, night after night and have fun without diminishing another's.
That is a skill worth respecting.
Yay! :aok
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Nice write up Grizz and I'd say your absolutely correct. I'd just add one point to the dogfight section of using defensive maneuvers, slimming your profile right at the point your opponent has a shot and using the angle overshoot to your advantage. I'm still working to get better and I got a long ways to go but I only pointed that out because only the good pilots use this technique. I'm still a skilless dweeb until I can compete with you bud :cheers: you got skills :salute
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Good write-up. Another important point, I believe, is the ability to judge E states. With this knowledge, you can apply the necessary move to either gain an adv, get the kill, or egress safely.
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Good write-up. Another important point, I believe, is the ability to judge E states. With this knowledge, you can apply the necessary move to either gain an adv, get the kill, or egress safely.
The ability to judge energy states would fall under the realm of "SA" but you're correct. It is a vital part of SA and without it, you're not going to survive for very long in the sky.
ack-ack
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i look at it like this. Skill isnt really based on your ability to shoot guys down. Its kind of like being a musician. Ive been a drummer for 29 years. practiced 4 to 6 hours a day for many many years. And it is the time ive spent practicing that got me where i am. So skill is based on Where that persons goal is. Where he sees himself being come X amount of time down the road.
BTW im kind of buzzed on southern comfort right now. So if this is babbling ill edit it later :D
Me love you long time
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A good pilot takes everything that's happened in the event to see what hes learned. To know as well when to come out of a fight or not. Also is able to take any plane into a situation that is bad and know the enemies weak point and also to know his strong point.
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For some people, logging on and flying around is good enough, and that's fine. For others who are more competitive, there is a motivation to perform at a high level. Personally, I find it more enjoyable to shoot down more bad guys than shoot me down, but that's just how I have fun because I am competitive :)
No complaints about what you wrote Grizz, but I think it applies to folks like yourself who have the time and the competitiveness to take it to that level. I checked your time v mine and you've got 8 times the hours I do in the game this month :)
Should you run into me in the MA you ought to beat me silly just based on that. Your 'skills' would be more finely tuned based on the time in alone. My only hope would be to give you a halfway decent fight. Throw in plane types and styles and it's different still.
Don't take this as a shot at you as it isn't meant to be. It's just where you are in your cartoon combat flying vs someone else. Any of us that have stuck around long wade through that part of the game along with all the others.
For me, with the limited time I get to play, I would consider it 'skill' to make you work for it before you killed me. My drive to consider myself a great stick, disappeared back in the Airwarrior days when my wife told me she was tired of staring at the side of my head :)
Again, not meant as a shot. In many ways I'm envious of the time to fly and put into becoming a good cartoon pilot.. Right now the real world just doesn't allow it
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Theres basically 2 kinds of pilots,theres a pilot who has 1 or 2 tactics he keeps using that works most of the time. Then theres a pilot that just feels what is going on and you'll basically never see that kinda of pilot doing the same maneuver twice,to me that's what a real pilot is.
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Good stuff grizz.
All of those things I work at and try to improve upon.
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Grizz I think that is a very good list, of a subset of skills that someone can acquire to play Aces High to it's fullest. You have identified the important aspects of pure dogfighting, but there are many aspects to this game, and they all take various skills. And I don't mean, or intend, for this to get into a "furball" vs "land grab" discussion.
There are skills to be learned in the ships guns, bombing, or GV's for example. I respect Dr7's shooting skill in a GV, the same way I respect your skill shooting a 30mm (or 999000 in a buff). Also I think it's important to recognize other skills, like Greebo's skins, or Midi's custom terrains for the special event's. They (and others like them) put tremendous amounts of time into things may players take for granted. Like Bipolar said, when you see how much some people put into "Mastering" a certain set of skills it makes it easier to understand and appreciate it.
To me it's more important to see other players working on learning new skills, rather then them doing the same thing over and over.
Sorry I'll get off my soapbox now.
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Imo, some players think 1v1 skill is the end all be all and negate other very important factors. Here are the most important skills that will dictate 'success' which in itself is a subjective term:
1v1 Ability:
Practicing 1v1s will obviously teach you ACM in a very controlled environment which can then be applied to more dynamic MA situations. Imo 1v1 takes the most fundamental ACM knowledge to be successful at, but isn't necessarily the most important skill in the MA in being successful. Being a 1v1 artist doesn't necessarily mean you can handle a 1vX, since a 1v1 requires no global awareness other than the fight at hand.
Aiming:
Probably just as important as ones ability to 1v1 is how well you can aim. Think of situations where you start off in a 1v1 with an enemy on the fray of icon range. You miss a couple easy shots and all of a sudden it's a 2v1. You kill the first guy on your third try but now the other con has you saddled and dead to rights. Had you killed that bogey on the first try, you would have been able to engage the 2nd con when he was 3k out. Getting ganged in the MA is directly correlative to one's failure to dispose of threats in a situation they deemed safe. The speed at which you eliminate threats in the MA will ultimately dictate if you get ganged.
Situation Awareness:
(a)
This is the most instinctual and experience based skill set of them all. Decision making in a multi plane environment. With every decision made comes Risk/Reward. Reward can be defined as a kill, risk defined as death. Accurate risk/reward assessment is something that can only come with experience. Aggression can also be defined as ones decision based on their risk/reward assessment. For example, if one engages four cons despite deciding he has less than a 10% chance of survival, this would be insanely aggressive. On the other side of the coin, if one avoids an engagement because he has a 10% chance of death, this would be insanely passive. All of these variables can be juggled into maximizing an individuals killing efficiency.
(b)
Another important aspect of SA, the rate at which you check your views. How many times/minute do you check all your views? This number is directly correlative to how clear your understanding of your surrounding is. You can never check your views too often and if you consistently are missing threats, you need to increase the rate at which you check your views.
Teamwork:
How well does one set up bogeys for his allies and how well does he use his allies for easy kills? You could call this being an 'opportunist', knowing the exact time to engage a con when he is clearly preoccupied or in an very unfavorable position, but this is actually a skill, being able to see this stuff.
Boom and Zoom:
How well does one retain advantage against overwhelming odds below him? Anybody can dive in and kill someone, but I evaluate one's B&Z ability in being able to kill bogeys below while being able to keep an advantage over the swarm. Diving in, turning, and getting ganged would be an extremely poor use of this altitude advantage.
Dogfighting:
Being able to stay alive in a dogfight where multiple cons are trying to turn/B&z you. I would argue this skill is actually the pinnacle of being versatile in all other sets, 1v1, Aiming, SA, all of which are equally important to being adequate in this skill. You can be a great 1v1 pilot but end up ultimately being inadequate in a dogfight due to lack of SA or aim. There's nothing great about saddling up a bogey just to get picked by one you didn't see.
These are the skills of a fighter as I see them in the MA. Imo, the ones who are most versatile in all the skills listed are the better pilots, not just being great in any one category. What do you consider in defining one's skill?
y0 B you know i love you to death bro. We're real life friends. But your bellybutton needs to step away from the game a while. You are WAYYYY to far in to it. Go out get drunk and take home a fattie. Take pics and send to me :D
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y0 B you know i love you to death bro. We're real life friends. But your bellybutton needs to step away from the game a while. You are WAYYYY to far in to it. Go out get drunk and take home a fattie. Take pics and send to me :D
Put the southern comfort away for the night :)
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<snip>
It's taken me 3 years, but I finally see and agree with your standpoint, Dan. I don't log in enough to worry about my flying abilities versus someone else's. I simply just enjoy logging on chatting with friends I've made over the years or flying with them and trying to see how long it takes before I die. I don't have that certain urge I used to get to start mouthing on 200 anymore...nothing other than a few sarcastic or witty remarks. The ability to just log on and have fun no matter what the situations might be in game is, to me, the greatest skill ever.
Grizz, that's a good write up, man. You put a lot of thought into stuff like that.
#S#
Banshee7
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Put the southern comfort away for the night :)
lol, you heard me on the phone and called me out on it lol. you guessed the right amount of drinks to.
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My skill is mediocre at best but i have exceptional days and then i have supper lame days as well.
A factor that should be considered is that every engagement will be different and the outcome can change due to all the factors that you have mentioned.
froger
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the biggest and most important skill is playing as much as you can while avoiding wife ack. :old:
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the biggest and most important skill is playing as much as you can while avoiding wife ack. :old:
ain't that the troof. My skills in this area need improving. :cry
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ain't that the troof. My skills in this area need improving. :cry
havent you brits learned from someone's sig around here.
when wife ack strikes, you must deploy chaff asap.
$$..$..$$...$$$.$$..............$$$$..........$
..$$..$....$..$.............$$$$$.......$.......$
or in your case..
£--££--£--££-£--£--££--£--£--££££--£££
£--£--£--££££--£££---------£--££££--£££
:D
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y0 B you know i love you to death bro. We're real life friends. But your bellybutton needs to step away from the game a while. You are WAYYYY to far in to it. Go out get drunk and take home a fattie. Take pics and send to me :D
If he is having fun, why should he have to take a step back from the game. He obviously enjoys what he's doing, otherwise he wouldn't have posted this thread. Just because you needed to take as step away because it became more than just a game doesn't mean everyone suffers from the same thing.
ack-ack
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taking out a turning cv and cruiser from 15k while having enough ord to take out another cruiser a sector away takes skills. duking it out with a p47 for 5mins in a goon 'til your bud comes to kill it aswell :aok
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I'd be one of those who considers 1v1 to require more skill, simply because to do the rest of the stuff on the list (gunnery aside) requires more a degree of patience than skill.
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I cant believe no one mentioned the [keep your sheep safe skill]
or the [chnl 200 smack talk skill ]
both are very importent
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Everyone defines success differently, as a result, everyone looks at skills a bit differently.
For me success is getting up each time I'm knocked down, so endurance plays a large part, along with a certain amount of stubbornness not to mention pure dogged determination. Patience, persistence, and Perseverance are my motto. :)
That's not to say that ACM and SA and gunnery are not important, they are.
But for a long healthy AH life, whats important is to find something you can do and enjoy it.
Then over time work on getting better at it.
Doing so in a manner that doesn't take away anything from anyone else, or that promotes teamwork and good fun for others is certainly a bonus.
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Skill is the art of defeating the enemy.
Air combat is an art, the knack of defeating an enemy whether it be in a 1v1 or a pick does not matter. If he is dead and you are alive (Bar situations where other players have deemed that a fight is a personal affair)then you are the victor and live to fight another day.
While some tactics are cheap and I am hippocritical for saying that I am not annoyed by them, If I was stupid enough to take a fight that I lost. Then it is my fault.
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Skill is mastering the fine art of maneging to convince your wife that fight sims are therapeutic And contribute to a healthy relationship....
Plus what Grizz said :salute
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id have to say that the gunnery would supercede all. if u cant hit anything, all else is useless. Doesn't matter how many u can track, how good u can BnZ, or how badass u are in a 1vs1. If u cant hit these guys, none of that matters. just my $0.02
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Am I the only one that thinks computer performance plays a big part in "skill"? :headscratch:
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i bet there are guys out there with top of the line systems that absolutely suck. on the other hand i bet there are guys with systems that just barely meet the minimum requirements that freaking pwn.
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I think it plays a part but not really a large part. I just upgraded from a laptop that could hardly push the game to a desktop that plays at full settings and I have to say that it does have some effect.
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Am I the only one that thinks computer performance plays a big part in "skill"? :headscratch:
No, there are swarms of folks who think it matter a whole lot!
I don't see it as playing a part in actual skill at all. I think someone with a cruddy joystick can move it just as skillfully as someone with a top-o-the-line stick. I've seen guys play basketball in sneakers, and they whupped the heck outta guys with Nike Airs.
Now, as far as perceived skill, sure it could make a difference. Someone flying with an old, spiky stick won't fly as smoothly as someone with a brand-new top-o-the-line stick. But then again, depending on skill, the guy with the old, cruddy stick could easily whip the snot outta the guy with the entirely new, top-o-the-line rig, let alone the guy with the better stick...
Personally, I switched over from a piece-of-junk computer, and switched from 28K (yes, 28K, not 56K...) dial-up to high-speed about a year ago. My skills didn't change, and my overall performance in the game is the same. As a matter of fact, from a "stats" perspective, the switch was seamless. The scenery just looks a whole lot better...
So in the end, I feel that if you have "adequate" equipment, then it (equipment quality) doesn't matter much at all. Inadequate equipment may "hide" your skill level, but top-o-the-line equipment won't "improve" your skill at all.
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Imo, some players think 1v1 skill is the end all be all and negate other very important factors. Here are the most important skills that will dictate 'success' which in itself is a subjective term:
1v1 Ability:
Practicing 1v1s will obviously teach you ACM in a very controlled environment which can then be applied to more dynamic MA situations. Imo 1v1 takes the most fundamental ACM knowledge to be successful at, but isn't necessarily the most important skill in the MA in being successful. Being a 1v1 artist doesn't necessarily mean you can handle a 1vX, since a 1v1 requires no global awareness other than the fight at hand.
Aiming:
Probably just as important as ones ability to 1v1 is how well you can aim. Think of situations where you start off in a 1v1 with an enemy on the fray of icon range. You miss a couple easy shots and all of a sudden it's a 2v1. You kill the first guy on your third try but now the other con has you saddled and dead to rights. Had you killed that bogey on the first try, you would have been able to engage the 2nd con when he was 3k out. Getting ganged in the MA is directly correlative to one's failure to dispose of threats in a situation they deemed safe. The speed at which you eliminate threats in the MA will ultimately dictate if you get ganged.
Situation Awareness:
(a)
This is the most instinctual and experience based skill set of them all. Decision making in a multi plane environment. With every decision made comes Risk/Reward. Reward can be defined as a kill, risk defined as death. Accurate risk/reward assessment is something that can only come with experience. Aggression can also be defined as ones decision based on their risk/reward assessment. For example, if one engages four cons despite deciding he has less than a 10% chance of survival, this would be insanely aggressive. On the other side of the coin, if one avoids an engagement because he has a 10% chance of death, this would be insanely passive. All of these variables can be juggled into maximizing an individuals killing efficiency.
(b)
Another important aspect of SA, the rate at which you check your views. How many times/minute do you check all your views? This number is directly correlative to how clear your understanding of your surrounding is. You can never check your views too often and if you consistently are missing threats, you need to increase the rate at which you check your views.
Teamwork:
How well does one set up bogeys for his allies and how well does he use his allies for easy kills? You could call this being an 'opportunist', knowing the exact time to engage a con when he is clearly preoccupied or in an very unfavorable position, but this is actually a skill, being able to see this stuff.
Boom and Zoom:
How well does one retain advantage against overwhelming odds below him? Anybody can dive in and kill someone, but I evaluate one's B&Z ability in being able to kill bogeys below while being able to keep an advantage over the swarm. Diving in, turning, and getting ganged would be an extremely poor use of this altitude advantage.
Dogfighting:
Being able to stay alive in a dogfight where multiple cons are trying to turn/B&z you. I would argue this skill is actually the pinnacle of being versatile in all other sets, 1v1, Aiming, SA, all of which are equally important to being adequate in this skill. You can be a great 1v1 pilot but end up ultimately being inadequate in a dogfight due to lack of SA or aim. There's nothing great about saddling up a bogey just to get picked by one you didn't see.
These are the skills of a fighter as I see them in the MA. Imo, the ones who are most versatile in all the skills listed are the better pilots, not just being great in any one category. What do you consider in defining one's skill?
Nice summary Grizz.
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As was pointed out to me by Drewster after I shot him and his 2 buddies down in a 3v1, I have no skill. As such, whatever I consider to be skill is a moot point since I lack the basic qualifications to pontificate as to what I consider to be skill. Maybe one day if I ever achieve such a level that can be considered to be 'skillful' will I be able to enter into this debate. I have a feeling though that I will never achieve these heights in my lifetime.
ack-ack
Wow, that didn't take you long AKAk to hijack the tread and turn it into ALL about You :aok
As I've said before you have nothing to contribute. This is lameness at it's greatest
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Am I the only one that thinks computer performance plays a big part in "skill"? :headscratch:
Up until about a year ish ago I flew on a few diff. systems that were quite low end.
IIRC I have flown AH with 256 or 128 textures with most sliders set to performance for the bulk of my tenure here. (think I hit 512 textures briefly until AH got updated and was back to 128)
So no... I don't think equipment makes you "better" or has anything to do with "skill".
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Wow, that didn't take you long AKAk to hijack the tread and turn it into ALL about You :aok
As I've said before you have nothing to contribute. This is lameness at it's greatest
1neverhung. You're still making wine with your "you skipped over me tears". I know, leave the forum for a couple of months, come back with another clown as an avatar. No one would suspect a thing.
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:furious that's it! I'm selling all this CH crap and going back to the etcho sketch moniter and mouse! :furious
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Grizz, excellent write up (summary) of ways to play AH.
Most won't "get it" and choose not to develop a single thing "skill-set wise". Instead, they'll join the amoebic, mindless whorde and "count on someone else to send them 6's, etc". Or, some folks in "long time squads" will continue to run when 1 vs 1, because they're buddy dove to the deck or was shot down" (AOM not included, they will fight).
Regardless, excellent OP and thread material.
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:D
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Skill? After 14 years I still haven't gotten past making stupid mistakes like stalling, augering, colliding, ripping parts off...
I guess I know I'll never have "skills" so instead I'll just try to have fun.
Off to join an "amoebic, mindless whorde".
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If he is having fun, why should he have to take a step back from the game. He obviously enjoys what he's doing, otherwise he wouldn't have posted this thread. Just because you needed to take as step away because it became more than just a game doesn't mean everyone suffers from the same thing.
ack-ack
How i love to read your baiting attempts. Ahhh AKAK your bait is starting to lack :(
Oh and when you try to bait, at least add truth to it. Then they'll bite :)
I still love you anyways <3
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I nominate Grizz for "Fighters" bootcamp.
Very true on the 1 v 1. I do well in 1 v 1 situations but I developed tunnel-vision in the MA. SA has improved for me but I need to improve that. I still believe 1 v 1 DA training is a great place to start, the grow from there.
Very true on aiming as well. BTW, the scaling did improve for me bud. Thanks.
TonyJoey, good add-on the E management part. Is that part of SA argument though? Interesting.
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I'm not very "skillfull" in a fighter. I can hold my own in a bomber- for a while. Never had the time or the inclination to improve on much because there's real life to deal with.
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Skill? :huh
How about this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNQCFk09Kho
;)
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I nominate Grizz for "Fighters" bootcamp.
Very true on the 1 v 1. I do well in 1 v 1 situations but I developed tunnel-vision in the MA. SA has improved for me but I need to improve that. I still believe 1 v 1 DA training is a great place to start, the grow from there.
Very true on aiming as well. BTW, the scaling did improve for me bud. Thanks.
TonyJoey, good add-on the E management part. Is that part of SA argument though? Interesting.
I am surprised he isnt a trainer yet honestly.
Great write-up,
Having good SA can make anyone look good as far as numbers go. I changed my style of flying for a tour and my K/D K/S went up just by playing alittle more conservative and not upping at vulched bases :D.
When im in the MA trying to better my flying, I like to put myself at a disadvantage and try to fight my way back. I look to drag people away from the main furball to have some 1v1 time(especially higher cons) . My mindset is sort of like when Im training in the military or how I used to practice for Lacrosse "Train like your actually fighting a war" "Practice how you play". Make it hard, try to fly against people better then you, take on people from a disadvantage.
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I am surprised he isnt a trainer yet honestly.
Based on what I heard about the training corps, I don't think he would fit in with them. No disrespect to the trainers. :salute
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Wow, that didn't take you long AKAk to hijack the tread and turn it into ALL about You :aok
As I've said before you have nothing to contribute. This is lameness at it's greatest
Your obsession with me is entering into the Gay Zone.
Now go on and run along the adults are having a conversation about something you've never possessed, skill.
ack-ack
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How i love to read your baiting attempts. Ahhh AKAK your bait is starting to lack :(
Oh and when you try to bait, at least add truth to it. Then they'll bite :)
I still love you anyways <3
No bait at all, there just wasn't any real need to tell Grizz to take a break. He's not suffering the burn out like you did and what he posted can be of great help for others.
ack-ack
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My mindset is sort of like when Im training in the military or how I used to practice for Lacrosse "Train like your actually fighting a war" "Practice how you play". Make it hard, try to fly against people better then you, take on people from a disadvantage.
Are you saying that you would fight a war deliberatly making it harder for yourself? I'm sure that's not what you meant but I want you to consider what you are actually saying here. In training you simulate war, you make it hard, your drill instructors will replace the combat stress with other kinds of stress to see how you work under pressure and to force yourself to find out. Ok if you have military background I'm sure you know all this.
The thing is, in war you want to make it as easy as possible for yourself because you and your buddies are putting your lives at stake. You don't want to take any risks whatsoever if you can avoid it.
Training is the opposite of war, but still without unnecessary risks.
I think it's important to make the honest distinction between the two very different situations, I'm not sure why you don't here. AH is still just a game and people must be allowed to play the way they consider is fun. Skill has in that sense little to do with it. Skill also has little to do with score. I respect a skilled pilot and can tell in most cases within seconds whether I'm up against a skilled stick or not. Many "skilled" and/or talented pilots/players underestimate the importance of SA though which is totally crucial both in the MA but also during FSOs and other historically based events.
The same can be said of teamwork. Why do AH players think that skill is all solo and has nothing to do with the team? Pilots in WW2 lived and died with their buddies. We do the same here but few seem to actually realize that. Numbers matter, flying smart is part of the equation. Talent can get you a long way but if you don't use your brain you're not worth whatever aircraft you fly.
Just a humble contribution to the thread. Flame away.
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I predict 20+ pages over the next 3 weeks or so...any bets?
Nice job on the post Grizz...just a thought but, I always thought dogfighting was simply the act of aerial combat between 2 or more aircraft...that aside I personally think you hit the nail on the head with this assessment...simply putting all of the other elements together to improve the chances of success.
Dogfighting:
Being able to stay alive in a dogfight where multiple cons are trying to turn/B&z you. I would argue this skill is actually the pinnacle of being versatile in all other sets, 1v1, Aiming, SA, all of which are equally important to being adequate in this skill. You can be a great 1v1 pilot but end up ultimately being inadequate in a dogfight due to lack of SA or aim. There's nothing great about saddling up a bogey just to get picked by one you didn't see.
There are a lot of people in AH that whine incessantly when they find themselves in such situations...but the ones who make the best of it and go on without anything more than a <S> nice job or laugh about it, get my respect regardless of their stats.
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nice write up Grizz, i printed out a copy left it on my desk :cheers:
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So in the end, I feel that if you have "adequate" equipment, then it (equipment quality) doesn't matter much at all. Inadequate equipment may "hide" your skill level, but top-o-the-line equipment won't "improve" your skill at all.
I agree. Beyond the necessary minimum, the main effect of better gear is making playing... let's call it: More comfortable. A 300$ HOTAS stick doesn't make your plane turn better than a cheap twisty, rudder pedals do allow for some finer control but there's still nothing you can do with a twisty and the limit is still the pilots skill and knowledge when to use rudder and when not.
In most situations, players get shot down because if some sever pilot error, either in setting up the fight, misjudging the situation or faulty application of ACM - and not because they do have twisty & standard hat views and their enemy has a full HITAS, rudder, trackIR setup.
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I predict 20+ pages over the next 3 weeks or so...any bets?
Nice job on the post Grizz...just a thought but, I always thought dogfighting was simply the act of aerial combat between 2 or more aircraft...that aside I personally think you hit the nail on the head with this assessment...simply putting all of the other elements together to improve the chances of success.There are a lot of people in AH that whine incessantly when they find themselves in such situations...but the ones who make the best of it and go on without anything more than a <S> nice job or laugh about it, get my respect regardless of their stats.
i will take you up on that 1 :rofl :salute All
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here is a film of a hurri doing what it does best. and the reason I love it.
http://dasmuppets.com/public/INK/F4loseselevtor.ahf
my point is, I could not have done that in any other plane, so the skills that you speak of is a HUGE skill set in AH, each and every plane is a different beast, and requires a different set of skills, the truly "best", and most Skillful are the ones that can fly any plane and use good ACM/SA and Dominate in said plane.
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Imo, some players think 1v1 skill is the end all be all and negate other very important factors. Here are the most important skills that will dictate 'success' which in itself is a subjective term:
1v1 Ability:
Practicing 1v1s will obviously teach you ACM in a very controlled environment which can then be applied to more dynamic MA situations. Imo 1v1 takes the most fundamental ACM knowledge to be successful at, but isn't necessarily the most important skill in the MA in being successful. Being a 1v1 artist doesn't necessarily mean you can handle a 1vX, since a 1v1 requires no global awareness other than the fight at hand.
Aiming:
Probably just as important as ones ability to 1v1 is how well you can aim. Think of situations where you start off in a 1v1 with an enemy on the fray of icon range. You miss a couple easy shots and all of a sudden it's a 2v1. You kill the first guy on your third try but now the other con has you saddled and dead to rights. Had you killed that bogey on the first try, you would have been able to engage the 2nd con when he was 3k out. Getting ganged in the MA is directly correlative to one's failure to dispose of threats in a situation they deemed safe. The speed at which you eliminate threats in the MA will ultimately dictate if you get ganged.
Situation Awareness:
(a)
This is the most instinctual and experience based skill set of them all. Decision making in a multi plane environment. With every decision made comes Risk/Reward. Reward can be defined as a kill, risk defined as death. Accurate risk/reward assessment is something that can only come with experience. Aggression can also be defined as ones decision based on their risk/reward assessment. For example, if one engages four cons despite deciding he has less than a 10% chance of survival, this would be insanely aggressive. On the other side of the coin, if one avoids an engagement because he has a 10% chance of death, this would be insanely passive. All of these variables can be juggled into maximizing an individuals killing efficiency.
(b)
Another important aspect of SA, the rate at which you check your views. How many times/minute do you check all your views? This number is directly correlative to how clear your understanding of your surrounding is. You can never check your views too often and if you consistently are missing threats, you need to increase the rate at which you check your views.
Teamwork:
How well does one set up bogeys for his allies and how well does he use his allies for easy kills? You could call this being an 'opportunist', knowing the exact time to engage a con when he is clearly preoccupied or in an very unfavorable position, but this is actually a skill, being able to see this stuff.
Boom and Zoom:
How well does one retain advantage against overwhelming odds below him? Anybody can dive in and kill someone, but I evaluate one's B&Z ability in being able to kill bogeys below while being able to keep an advantage over the swarm. Diving in, turning, and getting ganged would be an extremely poor use of this altitude advantage.
Dogfighting:
Being able to stay alive in a dogfight where multiple cons are trying to turn/B&z you. I would argue this skill is actually the pinnacle of being versatile in all other sets, 1v1, Aiming, SA, all of which are equally important to being adequate in this skill. You can be a great 1v1 pilot but end up ultimately being inadequate in a dogfight due to lack of SA or aim. There's nothing great about saddling up a bogey just to get picked by one you didn't see.
These are the skills of a fighter as I see them in the MA. Imo, the ones who are most versatile in all the skills listed are the better pilots, not just being great in any one category. What do you consider in defining one's skill?
All very true, but often I find the hardest to master is to keep others around you in RL happy as you spend so much time playing this game... Now thats where the skill comes in....lol
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All very true, but often I find the hardest to master is to keep others around you in RL happy as you spend so much time playing this game... Now thats where the skill comes in....lol
oh man, u said it all right there :confused:
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No bait at all, there just wasn't any real need to tell Grizz to take a break. He's not suffering the burn out like you did and what he posted can be of great help for others.
ack-ack
Grizz got what i meant. :devil
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When Grizz kills me twice in 30 minutes, I say he has skill.
.........Many words..........
(although the Hellcat time I was not up on my SA) :D
:salute
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When Grizz kills me twice in 30 minutes, I say he has skill.
(although the Hellcat time I was not up on my SA) :D
:salute
Dude your nothing more than a flying proxy kill looking for a place to auger. I really hope you arent serious. Grizz would spank you 100 out of 100
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Dude your nothing more than a flying proxy kill looking for a place to auger. I really hope you arent serious. Grizz would spank you 100 out of 100
I thought you were gonna change your name and thus your demeanor?
What a sweet dispostion you have.
Must be a pleasure to be around.
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I thought you were gonna change your name and thus your demeanor?
What a sweet dispostion you have.
Must be a pleasure to be around.
Im a very sweet man :) Everyone loves me
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Im a very sweet man :) Everyone loves me
Lmao!
After that statement, I think I do too!! lol :salute
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I agree. Beyond the necessary minimum, the main effect of better gear is making playing... let's call it: More comfortable. A 300$ HOTAS stick doesn't make your plane turn better than a cheap twisty, rudder pedals do allow for some finer control but there's still nothing you can do with a twisty and the limit is still the pilots skill and knowledge when to use rudder and when not.
In most situations, players get shot down because if some sever pilot error, either in setting up the fight, misjudging the situation or faulty application of ACM - and not because they do have twisty & standard hat views and their enemy has a full HITAS, rudder, trackIR setup.
I think you're right, although the "necessary minimum" makes a huge difference - when I started palying AW it was with a mouse and getting a joystick with a throttle and hat switch was like night and day.
Beyond that, a good monitor makes a real difference. The player who can see more has a definite advantage.
As to the original topic: I'd add two more subsets of SA and one that I don't think has been mentioned. There's knowledge of the planes and their strengths and weaknesses, this is absolutely crucial. Then there's psychology: knowing what the other guy(s) is going to do before he does (of course you also have to be prepared for the possibility that he's smarter than you think!)
The other one is self-discipline. I get killed a fair amount doing things that I know I shouldn't do, but because I'm mad or have buck fever or whatever I do them anyway and end up kicking myself back in the tower. I'm sure I'm not alone in that, given the number of people I see doing things like chasing enemies into ship ack, creeping up on buffs' six hoping to win the gun duel, getting suckered into turning with planes that are much better at it, and so forth, that everyone but the newest players knows are bad ideas.
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Are you saying that you would fight a war deliberatly making it harder for yourself? I'm sure that's not what you meant but I want you to consider what you are actually saying here. In training you simulate war, you make it hard, your drill instructors will replace the combat stress with other kinds of stress to see how you work under pressure and to force yourself to find out. Ok if you have military background I'm sure you know all this.
The thing is, in war you want to make it as easy as possible for yourself because you and your buddies are putting your lives at stake. You don't want to take any risks whatsoever if you can avoid it.
Training is the opposite of war, but still without unnecessary risks.
I think it's important to make the honest distinction between the two very different situations, I'm not sure why you don't here. AH is still just a game and people must be allowed to play the way they consider is fun. Skill has in that sense little to do with it. Skill also has little to do with score. I respect a skilled pilot and can tell in most cases within seconds whether I'm up against a skilled stick or not. Many "skilled" and/or talented pilots/players underestimate the importance of SA though which is totally crucial both in the MA but also during FSOs and other historically based events.
The same can be said of teamwork. Why do AH players think that skill is all solo and has nothing to do with the team? Pilots in WW2 lived and died with their buddies. We do the same here but few seem to actually realize that. Numbers matter, flying smart is part of the equation. Talent can get you a long way but if you don't use your brain you're not worth whatever aircraft you fly.
Just a humble contribution to the thread. Flame away.
What im talking about is train hard so when the time does come, it may be easier. I was having problems connecting it sorry :salute
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A "hardcore as they come" person would have had something better to say EMO boy.
I'm dark, and sensitive, with low self esteem. The way I dress makes everyday, feel like Halloween...........I must be EMO..........
Stop my breathing and slit my throat, I must be EMO.
Dye in my hair, and polish on my toes........ I must be EMO
I play guitar and write suicide notes, I must be EMO
I dress like I'm dead, and must be homo.......
BiPolar:
(http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/145/l_db8612f134c34a9185c56a1dad2811c3.jpg)
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Funny, but your girl sure was complaining about you last night...... EMO kid.
Im a very sweet man :) Everyone loves me
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Funny, but your girl sure was complaining about you last night...... EMO kid.
thats worth a donkey-punch, maybe two
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thats worth a donkey-punch, maybe two
:rofl
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I deserve at least three...... But I'm hoping he'll show us his toenail's all polished up. :pray
thats worth a donkey-punch, maybe two
Pretty Please!!!
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I think Bipolar is in ICP. He scares me :eek:
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I make jokes.... But calling him a clown?
I think Bipolar is in ICP. He scares me :eek:
:headscratch: ..... Actually, I guess that does fit.
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I can tell the precise time of every fight that my plane will explode. That's real SA skill. :aok
BANG! Did you see that one comin? :D
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Dude your nothing more than a flying proxy kill looking for a place to auger. I really hope you arent serious. Grizz would spank you 100 out of 100
(http://i771.photobucket.com/albums/xx356/prettifer/gifs/cu13734088.gif)
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The other one is self-discipline. I get killed a fair amount doing things that I know I shouldn't do, but because I'm mad or have buck fever or whatever I do them anyway and end up kicking myself back in the tower. I'm sure I'm not alone in that, given the number of people I see doing things like chasing enemies into ship ack, creeping up on buffs' six hoping to win the gun duel, getting suckered into turning with planes that are much better at it, and so forth, that everyone but the newest players knows are bad ideas.
Oh my. You know me so well.
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And it worked...... But now he's stuck thinking of something really cool to say back. Or he's really pissed and he'll ask me to duel......... (Notice how Grizz will take me 100 out of 100, yet I can't seem to get a number value for how good he might be)
(http://i771.photobucket.com/albums/xx356/prettifer/gifs/cu13734088.gif)
His girl tells me he isn't actually all that good.................
In game...... I'm not talking about the other place she spoke about. :aok
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This thread just became INcredible.
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y0 B you know i love you to death bro. We're real life friends. But your bellybutton needs to step away from the game a while. You are WAYYYY to far in to it. Go out get drunk and take home a fattie. Take pics and send to me :D
Dont worry sir, got that taken care of:
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d6/anna-07/8150e928.jpg)
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I didn't start the fire............... But you're dam right, the gasoline I carry in my trunk gets broken out real quick when some Donkey can't contribute and just try to be hurtful................. :cry
This thread just became INcredible.
Oh wait a sec....... I don't cry about silly chit................. I'm not an EMO kid.
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Um... :headscratch:
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I'm with you sir. 2 pages ago, I just wanted to give you a compliment about last night <S>
All the sudden I get some Donkey talking watermelon about things he doesn't even know about.
Um... :headscratch:
And if I'd have to bet, I'd go about 70/30 on the 100 duels......... :D
Sorry............ Let's get back to what you were talking about before I was viciously attacked by some kid that wears makeup.
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Skill in this game in my eyes is someone who can willfully engage multiple enemies, them having alt/speed advantage, and better planes, and if not killing them all, atleast taking a few with you, and giving them a hell of a fight.
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Theres very many diffrent names of what you call skill.It's overall just a game. In the end the ones that have the most fun are the real winners,those are the ones with skill.
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Imo, some players think 1v1 skill is the end all be all and negate other very important factors. Here are the most important skills that will dictate 'success' which in itself is a subjective term:
1v1 Ability:
Practicing 1v1s will obviously teach you ACM in a very controlled environment which can then be applied to more dynamic MA situations. Imo 1v1 takes the most fundamental ACM knowledge to be successful at, but isn't necessarily the most important skill in the MA in being successful. Being a 1v1 artist doesn't necessarily mean you can handle a 1vX, since a 1v1 requires no global awareness other than the fight at hand.
Aiming:
Probably just as important as ones ability to 1v1 is how well you can aim. Think of situations where you start off in a 1v1 with an enemy on the fray of icon range. You miss a couple easy shots and all of a sudden it's a 2v1. You kill the first guy on your third try but now the other con has you saddled and dead to rights. Had you killed that bogey on the first try, you would have been able to engage the 2nd con when he was 3k out. Getting ganged in the MA is directly correlative to one's failure to dispose of threats in a situation they deemed safe. The speed at which you eliminate threats in the MA will ultimately dictate if you get ganged.
Situation Awareness:
(a)
This is the most instinctual and experience based skill set of them all. Decision making in a multi plane environment. With every decision made comes Risk/Reward. Reward can be defined as a kill, risk defined as death. Accurate risk/reward assessment is something that can only come with experience. Aggression can also be defined as ones decision based on their risk/reward assessment. For example, if one engages four cons despite deciding he has less than a 10% chance of survival, this would be insanely aggressive. On the other side of the coin, if one avoids an engagement because he has a 10% chance of death, this would be insanely passive. All of these variables can be juggled into maximizing an individuals killing efficiency.
(b)
Another important aspect of SA, the rate at which you check your views. How many times/minute do you check all your views? This number is directly correlative to how clear your understanding of your surrounding is. You can never check your views too often and if you consistently are missing threats, you need to increase the rate at which you check your views.
Teamwork:
How well does one set up bogeys for his allies and how well does he use his allies for easy kills? You could call this being an 'opportunist', knowing the exact time to engage a con when he is clearly preoccupied or in an very unfavorable position, but this is actually a skill, being able to see this stuff.
Boom and Zoom:
How well does one retain advantage against overwhelming odds below him? Anybody can dive in and kill someone, but I evaluate one's B&Z ability in being able to kill bogeys below while being able to keep an advantage over the swarm. Diving in, turning, and getting ganged would be an extremely poor use of this altitude advantage.
Dogfighting:
Being able to stay alive in a dogfight where multiple cons are trying to turn/B&z you. I would argue this skill is actually the pinnacle of being versatile in all other sets, 1v1, Aiming, SA, all of which are equally important to being adequate in this skill. You can be a great 1v1 pilot but end up ultimately being inadequate in a dogfight due to lack of SA or aim. There's nothing great about saddling up a bogey just to get picked by one you didn't see.
These are the skills of a fighter as I see them in the MA. Imo, the ones who are most versatile in all the skills listed are the better pilots, not just being great in any one category. What do you consider in defining one's skill?
Nice write up Grizz.
New players to the game could learn a lot just from reading this.
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BANG! Did you see that one comin? :D
Aint hard to see a HO shot coming. :P
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Grizz is only talking about the "Air Combat" part of this game, which is really what this game was built on....the ability to have Air Combat using cartoon models of WWII fighter planes........
all the other things replyed about regarding GV's, win the war, base captures etc, was not in the scope of the original Post! so should not be brought in to this debate/thread........ feel free to open another thread about "Overall Game Skill" , but leave this one to just Air Combat / fighters vs fighters type of play.....
also, E management is part of SA - SA includes both what is going on inside your cartoon cockpit and outside of it equally
my opinion, I always looked at it as:
* - SA
* - BFM/ACM
* - Gunnery
what good is gunnery if you can not see the current situation to use the appropriate BFM to get to a position that you can use your gunnery......
YMMV
nice lil post, Grizz
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I consider skill as something everyone has except me. But I've got beer. :cheers:
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Theres very many diffrent names of what you call skill.It's overall just a game. In the end the ones that have the most fun are the real winners,those are the ones with skill.
That's social skill. :)
:aok
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Nice write up Grizz.
New players to the game could learn a lot just from reading this.
I don't think much can be learned per say, but it should give a better understanding of what is important pertaining to being skilled and what kind of specific help to look for.
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<---Have I ever shot you down? Claim Jumper and proud
!
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I believe skill is when a pilot is able to enter a furball in a way that makes him get full overview of the situation, and from that position be able to sort out the most lethal enemies in a ranking order. And to be able to lead his turns in a way that makes the ones looking for him miss their shot, but in that same move make a pass at one of the most dangerous enemies in that ranking order. That may be a guy chasing your buddie's 6. Take him out first and your odds for survival have doubled at that very moment..
And always keep the e state up so you can keep enough distance and have time to plan the next attack without getting jumped.
That is good SA I believe, I am not able to do it myself but I am working on it.. :headscratch:
But also, if it should happen that someone gets glued to your own 6 skill is needed to turn the tables fast without loosing the SA or the e advantage.
Perhaps knowing where the closest friendly is and drag the chaser for a nice setup is the most skillful solution for that given situation?
There is no doubt that skill comes with experience, and experience comes with constant practice! And constant practice requires offers.. It may be offers in social life with friends, family etc.. But you don't get to be a top stick of Aces High without making some offers!
Myself being a family guy and having kids makes it impossible for me to get enough time in game to climb the top of that Ace-stick ladder, but I still try to have fun. That takes a little skill too I think, to have fun no matter what.. :aok
:salute
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No complaints about what you wrote Grizz, but I think it applies to folks like yourself who have the time and the competitiveness to take it to that level. I checked your time v mine and you've got 8 times the hours I do in the game this month :)
Should you run into me in the MA you ought to beat me silly just based on that. Your 'skills' would be more finely tuned based on the time in alone. My only hope would be to give you a halfway decent fight. Throw in plane types and styles and it's different still.
Don't take this as a shot at you as it isn't meant to be. It's just where you are in your cartoon combat flying vs someone else. Any of us that have stuck around long wade through that part of the game along with all the others.
For me, with the limited time I get to play, I would consider it 'skill' to make you work for it before you killed me. My drive to consider myself a great stick, disappeared back in the Airwarrior days when my wife told me she was tired of staring at the side of my head :)
Again, not meant as a shot. In many ways I'm envious of the time to fly and put into becoming a good cartoon pilot.. Right now the real world just doesn't allow it
Amen to that, brother. :salute
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The ability to log on, night after night and have fun without diminishing another's.
That is a skill worth respecting.
what he said. Don't think "skill" in a video game counts for jack S@#t :aok
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The ability to auger so well you make others jealous. That is first and formost.
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what he said. Don't think "skill" in a video game counts for jack S@#t :aok
:aok
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what he said. Don't think "skill" in a video game counts for jack S@#t :aok
It counts for more fun. :aok
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what he said. Don't think "skill" in a video game counts for jack S@#t :aok
The difference between a fight with 2 "alright" players and a fight with 2 "good" players is quite different. The fights get more intense the better YOU get and the tougher opponent you face :aok
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what he said. Don't think "skill" in a video game counts for jack S@#t :aok
In a way that may be true, however in this day and age more and more, the use of a video game style is used in every day use for remote vehicles...these as you know are used for space exploration, spy drones, bomb robots..the list goes on...sure it is real world stuff but maybe...just maybe the skills learned in particular video games can and more than likely will be used on a persons CV...much like the major hackers of the world today... if their hacks are good enough, it earns them a job with a ridiculous salary.
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The difference between a fight with 2 "alright" players and a fight with 2 "good" players is quite different. The fights get more intense the better YOU get and the tougher opponent you face :aok
I understand what you are trying to say JunkyII, but all of us started out as baby seals and got clubbed for a while. Those of us who stuck it out, started to find fights with guys of comparable ability and they were intense in their own way as you figured out things both by winning and losing. I can remember some very intense fights from the old RR arena in Airwarrior. You'd then have a fight where you finally shot down someone with a 'name' you recognized as a halfway decent stick and you felt like you'd climbed the ladder just a bit. It's a never ending process if you stick around with the priorities and what creates intensity for you changing depending on the interest.
As for intensity, I still remember the fights I had in RR Spit IXs with a buddy named Mako where we'd end up with sore arms from bending the stick in never ending turn fights. Those were as intense as any fight I've had since :)
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Situational Awareness would be my input. Know when to hold em, know when to fold em. Being able to log an and take out a few Red ones! That is the fun in this game. Right behind that IMHO is landing after an engagement, even if you don't win. If you can engage, make it through the fight then land...now thats the ticket. Just when you think you are improving someone comes along and hands it to you. That is a learning opportunity. But...I still love flying the cartoon skies. Skill is hard to come by, and if you think you have it that is all that really counts. Remember that skill is not directly proportional to the volume of the one proclaiming it. Remain positive because even the top dog gets shot down frequently. Detune 200, if you can't see the whine or slight, it won't upset you. Good Luck <S>
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Imo, some players think 1v1 skill is the end all be all and negate other very important factors. Here are the most important skills that will dictate 'success' which in itself is a subjective term:
1v1 Ability:
Practicing 1v1s will obviously teach you ACM in a very controlled environment which can then be applied to more dynamic MA situations. Imo 1v1 takes the most fundamental ACM knowledge to be successful at, but isn't necessarily the most important skill in the MA in being successful. Being a 1v1 artist doesn't necessarily mean you can handle a 1vX, since a 1v1 requires no global awareness other than the fight at hand.
Aiming:
Probably just as important as ones ability to 1v1 is how well you can aim. Think of situations where you start off in a 1v1 with an enemy on the fray of icon range. You miss a couple easy shots and all of a sudden it's a 2v1. You kill the first guy on your third try but now the other con has you saddled and dead to rights. Had you killed that bogey on the first try, you would have been able to engage the 2nd con when he was 3k out. Getting ganged in the MA is directly correlative to one's failure to dispose of threats in a situation they deemed safe. The speed at which you eliminate threats in the MA will ultimately dictate if you get ganged.
Situation Awareness:
(a)
This is the most instinctual and experience based skill set of them all. Decision making in a multi plane environment. With every decision made comes Risk/Reward. Reward can be defined as a kill, risk defined as death. Accurate risk/reward assessment is something that can only come with experience. Aggression can also be defined as ones decision based on their risk/reward assessment. For example, if one engages four cons despite deciding he has less than a 10% chance of survival, this would be insanely aggressive. On the other side of the coin, if one avoids an engagement because he has a 10% chance of death, this would be insanely passive. All of these variables can be juggled into maximizing an individuals killing efficiency.
(b)
Another important aspect of SA, the rate at which you check your views. How many times/minute do you check all your views? This number is directly correlative to how clear your understanding of your surrounding is. You can never check your views too often and if you consistently are missing threats, you need to increase the rate at which you check your views.
Teamwork:
How well does one set up bogeys for his allies and how well does he use his allies for easy kills? You could call this being an 'opportunist', knowing the exact time to engage a con when he is clearly preoccupied or in an very unfavorable position, but this is actually a skill, being able to see this stuff.
Boom and Zoom:
How well does one retain advantage against overwhelming odds below him? Anybody can dive in and kill someone, but I evaluate one's B&Z ability in being able to kill bogeys below while being able to keep an advantage over the swarm. Diving in, turning, and getting ganged would be an extremely poor use of this altitude advantage.
Dogfighting:
Being able to stay alive in a dogfight where multiple cons are trying to turn/B&z you. I would argue this skill is actually the pinnacle of being versatile in all other sets, 1v1, Aiming, SA, all of which are equally important to being adequate in this skill. You can be a great 1v1 pilot but end up ultimately being inadequate in a dogfight due to lack of SA or aim. There's nothing great about saddling up a bogey just to get picked by one you didn't see.
These are the skills of a fighter as I see them in the MA. Imo, the ones who are most versatile in all the skills listed are the better pilots, not just being great in any one category. What do you consider in defining one's skill?
Grizz,
Everything you said is worthy and contributes to the overall skillset for the particular plane or vehicle you are in. But at the end of the day, its about the planning, and applied knowledge of your enemy, and your specific machine and its capabilities that defines ones skill - and a bit of luck. I can whoop someones bellybutton in an A20 as easily as a P-47 - but if either one end up with me engaging them on the climb out - thats awfully like poor planning.
Have an entrance plan. Be Polite. Be Professional. And have a plan to kill everyone you meet - and exit accordingly.
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What do you consider "skill?"
(or skillful) = Anyone who beats me fair and square with room to spare. You know it when you see it.
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Imo, some players think 1v1 skill is the end all be all and negate other very important factors. Here are the most important skills that will dictate 'success' which in itself is a subjective term:
1v1 Ability:
Practicing 1v1s will obviously teach you ACM in a very controlled environment which can then be applied to more dynamic MA situations. Imo 1v1 takes the most fundamental ACM knowledge to be successful at, but isn't necessarily the most important skill in the MA in being successful. Being a 1v1 artist doesn't necessarily mean you can handle a 1vX, since a 1v1 requires no global awareness other than the fight at hand.
Aiming:
Probably just as important as ones ability to 1v1 is how well you can aim. Think of situations where you start off in a 1v1 with an enemy on the fray of icon range. You miss a couple easy shots and all of a sudden it's a 2v1. You kill the first guy on your third try but now the other con has you saddled and dead to rights. Had you killed that bogey on the first try, you would have been able to engage the 2nd con when he was 3k out. Getting ganged in the MA is directly correlative to one's failure to dispose of threats in a situation they deemed safe. The speed at which you eliminate threats in the MA will ultimately dictate if you get ganged.
Situation Awareness:
(a)
This is the most instinctual and experience based skill set of them all. Decision making in a multi plane environment. With every decision made comes Risk/Reward. Reward can be defined as a kill, risk defined as death. Accurate risk/reward assessment is something that can only come with experience. Aggression can also be defined as ones decision based on their risk/reward assessment. For example, if one engages four cons despite deciding he has less than a 10% chance of survival, this would be insanely aggressive. On the other side of the coin, if one avoids an engagement because he has a 10% chance of death, this would be insanely passive. All of these variables can be juggled into maximizing an individuals killing efficiency.
(b)
Another important aspect of SA, the rate at which you check your views. How many times/minute do you check all your views? This number is directly correlative to how clear your understanding of your surrounding is. You can never check your views too often and if you consistently are missing threats, you need to increase the rate at which you check your views.
Teamwork:
How well does one set up bogeys for his allies and how well does he use his allies for easy kills? You could call this being an 'opportunist', knowing the exact time to engage a con when he is clearly preoccupied or in an very unfavorable position, but this is actually a skill, being able to see this stuff.
Boom and Zoom:
How well does one retain advantage against overwhelming odds below him? Anybody can dive in and kill someone, but I evaluate one's B&Z ability in being able to kill bogeys below while being able to keep an advantage over the swarm. Diving in, turning, and getting ganged would be an extremely poor use of this altitude advantage.
Dogfighting:
Being able to stay alive in a dogfight where multiple cons are trying to turn/B&z you. I would argue this skill is actually the pinnacle of being versatile in all other sets, 1v1, Aiming, SA, all of which are equally important to being adequate in this skill. You can be a great 1v1 pilot but end up ultimately being inadequate in a dogfight due to lack of SA or aim. There's nothing great about saddling up a bogey just to get picked by one you didn't see.
These are the skills of a fighter as I see them in the MA. Imo, the ones who are most versatile in all the skills listed are the better pilots, not just being great in any one category. What do you consider in defining one's skill?
i think everyone has different opinions of this.......
i judge my ingame skill on simpler things. when i get into a fight against the likes of you, sonicblu, shuffler, n7, potsnpans, llgaf...dedalos...........and last more than a minute or 2.....and possibly even come out in one piece............then i feel i've improved my skillz over what they were a year ago. the list can go on.....but you get the point.....
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I find more challenge in ignoring that list and being super aggressive. :t
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"You Shot Down Grizz" = Skill :aok :noid
Well That and killing those Pesky Buildings! :airplane:
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what is this "skill" you be speekin of?
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"You Shot Down Grizz" = Skill :aok :noid
Well That and killing those Pesky Buildings! :airplane:
Shawks sexiness is t3h ub3r skill.
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Re: What do you consider 'skill'?
Keeping three women satisfied at one time.
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Re: What do you consider 'skill'?
Keeping three women satisfied at one time.
Now he's asking for the impossible. Everyone knows it's impossible to completely satisfy any woman. :bolt:
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Shawks sexiness is t3h ub3r skill.
It's tough being that sexy.
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It's tough being that sexy.
:rock