What do you consider 'skill'?

[SEraider]

I am surprised he isnt a trainer yet honestly.

Based on what I heard about the training corps, I don't think he would fit in with them.  No disrespect to the trainers. 

[Ack-Ack]

Wow, that didn't take you long AKAk to hijack the tread and turn it into ALL about You
As I've said before you have nothing to contribute. This is lameness at it's greatest

Your obsession with me is entering into the Gay Zone. 

Now go on and run along the adults are having a conversation about something you've never possessed, skill.

ack-ack

[Ack-Ack]

How i love to read your baiting attempts. Ahhh AKAK your bait is starting to lack
Oh and when you try to bait, at least add truth to it. Then they'll bite
I still love you anyways <3

No bait at all, there just wasn't any real need to tell Grizz to take a break.  He's not suffering the burn out like you did and what he posted can be of great help for others.

ack-ack

[33Vortex]

My mindset is sort of like when Im training in the military or how I used to practice for Lacrosse "Train like your actually fighting a war" "Practice how you play". Make it hard, try to fly against people better then you, take on people from a disadvantage.

Are you saying that you would fight a war deliberatly making it harder for yourself? I'm sure that's not what you meant but I want you to consider what you are actually saying here. In training you simulate war, you make it hard, your drill instructors will replace the combat stress with other kinds of stress to see how you work under pressure and to force yourself to find out. Ok if you have military background I'm sure you know all this.

The thing is, in war you want to make it as easy as possible for yourself because you and your buddies are putting your lives at stake. You don't want to take any risks whatsoever if you can avoid it.

Training is the opposite of war, but still without unnecessary risks.

I think it's important to make the honest distinction between the two very different situations, I'm not sure why you don't here. AH is still just a game and people must be allowed to play the way they consider is fun. Skill has in that sense little to do with it. Skill also has little to do with score. I respect a skilled pilot and can tell in most cases within seconds whether I'm up against a skilled stick or not. Many "skilled" and/or talented pilots/players underestimate the importance of SA though which is totally crucial both in the MA but also during FSOs and other historically based events.
The same can be said of teamwork. Why do AH players think that skill is all solo and has nothing to do with the team? Pilots in WW2 lived and died with their buddies. We do the same here but few seem to actually realize that. Numbers matter, flying smart is part of the equation. Talent can get you a long way but if you don't use your brain you're not worth whatever aircraft you fly.

Just a humble contribution to the thread. Flame away.

[gyrene81]

I predict 20+ pages over the next 3 weeks or so...any bets?



Nice job on the post Grizz...just a thought but, I always thought dogfighting was simply the act of aerial combat between 2 or more aircraft...that aside I personally think you hit the nail on the head with this assessment...simply putting all of the other elements together to improve the chances of success.

Dogfighting:
Being able to stay alive in a dogfight where multiple cons are trying to turn/B&z you.  I would argue this skill is actually the pinnacle of being versatile in all other sets, 1v1, Aiming, SA, all of which are equally important to being adequate in this skill.  You can be a great 1v1 pilot but end up ultimately being inadequate in a dogfight due to lack of SA or aim.  There's nothing great about saddling up a bogey just to get picked by one you didn't see.

There are a lot of people in AH that whine incessantly when they find themselves in such situations...but the ones who make the best of it and go on without anything more than a <S> nice job or laugh about it, get my respect regardless of their stats.

[68ZooM]

nice write up Grizz, i printed out a copy left it on my desk  

[Lusche]

So in the end, I feel that if you have "adequate" equipment, then it (equipment quality) doesn't matter much at all.  Inadequate equipment may "hide" your skill level, but top-o-the-line equipment won't "improve" your skill at all.

I agree. Beyond the necessary minimum, the main effect of better gear is making playing... let's call it: More comfortable.  A 300$ HOTAS stick doesn't make your plane turn better than a cheap twisty, rudder pedals do allow for some finer control but there's still nothing you can do with a twisty and the limit is still the pilots skill and knowledge when to use rudder and when not.

In most situations, players get shot down because if some sever pilot error, either in setting up the fight, misjudging the situation or faulty application of ACM - and not because they do have twisty & standard hat views and their enemy has a full HITAS, rudder, trackIR setup.

[DrBone1]

I predict 20+ pages over the next 3 weeks or so...any bets?



Nice job on the post Grizz...just a thought but, I always thought dogfighting was simply the act of aerial combat between 2 or more aircraft...that aside I personally think you hit the nail on the head with this assessment...simply putting all of the other elements together to improve the chances of success.There are a lot of people in AH that whine incessantly when they find themselves in such situations...but the ones who make the best of it and go on without anything more than a <S> nice job or laugh about it, get my respect regardless of their stats.

i will take you up on that 1    All

[ink]

here is a film of a hurri doing what it does best. and the reason I love it.

http://dasmuppets.com/public/INK/F4loseselevtor.ahf


my point is, I could not have done that in any other plane, so the skills that you speak of is a HUGE skill set in AH, each and every plane is a different beast, and requires a different set of skills, the truly "best", and most Skillful are the ones that can fly any plane and use good ACM/SA and Dominate in said plane.

[Ardy123]

Imo, some players think 1v1 skill is the end all be all and negate other very important factors.  Here are the most important skills that will dictate 'success' which in itself is a subjective term:

1v1 Ability:
Practicing 1v1s will obviously teach you ACM in a very controlled environment which can then be applied to more dynamic MA situations.  Imo 1v1 takes the most fundamental ACM knowledge to be successful at, but isn't necessarily the most important skill in the MA in being successful.  Being a 1v1 artist doesn't necessarily mean you can handle a 1vX, since a 1v1 requires no global awareness other than the fight at hand.

Aiming:
Probably just as important as ones ability to 1v1 is how well you can aim.  Think of situations where you start off in a 1v1 with an enemy on the fray of icon range.  You miss a couple easy shots and all of a sudden it's a 2v1.  You kill the first guy on your third try but now the other con has you saddled and dead to rights.  Had you killed that bogey on the first try, you would have been able to engage the 2nd con when he was 3k out.  Getting ganged in the MA is directly correlative to one's failure to dispose of threats in a situation they deemed safe.  The speed at which you eliminate threats in the MA will ultimately dictate if you get ganged.

Situation Awareness:
(a)
This is the most instinctual and experience based skill set of them all.  Decision making in a multi plane environment.  With every decision made comes Risk/Reward.  Reward can be defined as a kill, risk defined as death.  Accurate risk/reward assessment is something that can only come with experience.  Aggression can also be defined as ones decision based on their risk/reward assessment.  For example, if one engages four cons despite deciding he has less than a 10% chance of survival, this would be insanely aggressive.  On the other side of the coin, if one avoids an engagement because he has a 10% chance of death, this would be insanely passive.  All of these variables can be juggled into maximizing an individuals killing efficiency.
(b)
Another important aspect of SA, the rate at which you check your views.  How many times/minute do you check all your views?  This number is directly correlative to how clear your understanding of your surrounding is.  You can never check your views too often and if you consistently are missing threats, you need to increase the rate at which you check your views.

Teamwork:
How well does one set up bogeys for his allies and how well does he use his allies for easy kills?  You could call this being an 'opportunist', knowing the exact time to engage a con when he is clearly preoccupied or in an very unfavorable position, but this is actually a skill, being able to see this stuff.  

Boom and Zoom:
How well does one retain advantage against overwhelming odds below him?  Anybody can dive in and kill someone, but I evaluate one's B&Z ability in being able to kill bogeys below while being able to keep an advantage over the swarm.  Diving in, turning, and getting ganged would be an extremely poor use of this altitude advantage.

Dogfighting:
Being able to stay alive in a dogfight where multiple cons are trying to turn/B&z you.  I would argue this skill is actually the pinnacle of being versatile in all other sets, 1v1, Aiming, SA, all of which are equally important to being adequate in this skill.  You can be a great 1v1 pilot but end up ultimately being inadequate in a dogfight due to lack of SA or aim.  There's nothing great about saddling up a bogey just to get picked by one you didn't see.


These are the skills of a fighter as I see them in the MA.  Imo, the ones who are most versatile in all the skills listed are the better pilots, not just being great in any one category.  What do you consider in defining one's skill?

All very true, but often I find the hardest to master is to keep others around you in RL happy as you spend so much time playing this game... Now thats where the skill comes in....lol

[IrishOne]

All very true, but often I find the hardest to master is to keep others around you in RL happy as you spend so much time playing this game... Now thats where the skill comes in....lol

oh man, u said it all right there 

[BiPoLaR]

No bait at all, there just wasn't any real need to tell Grizz to take a break.  He's not suffering the burn out like you did and what he posted can be of great help for others.

ack-ack

Grizz got what i meant. 

[LLogann]

When Grizz kills me twice in 30 minutes, I say he has skill. 

.........Many words.......... 

(although the Hellcat time I was not up on my SA)    



 

[BiPoLaR]

When Grizz kills me twice in 30 minutes, I say he has skill. 

(although the Hellcat time I was not up on my SA)    



 

Dude your nothing more than a flying proxy kill looking for a place to auger. I really hope you arent serious. Grizz would spank you 100 out of 100

[1Boner]

Dude your nothing more than a flying proxy kill looking for a place to auger. I really hope you arent serious. Grizz would spank you 100 out of 100

I thought you were gonna change your name and thus your demeanor?

What a sweet dispostion you have.

Must be a pleasure to be around.