Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: Boxboy on March 26, 2010, 11:25:38 PM
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I have been thinking about this for awhile, first off small squads like ours (801) all seem to draw the cleanup jobs while the big squads enjoy the more fun parts of FSO. One of the problems is that ALL targets have to be hit, I think a list of targets with say 75% having to be hit to fulfill mission would go a long way in getting rid of the pigpiles, like we ran into at A32 tonight. The 75% rule would force the CIC to make decisions as to where to deploy his assets for both attack and defense.
While I realize this might casue some squads to see no action (defending a base not hit), it would hopfully lessen the chance of pigpiles on small squads and allow them a chance to be sucessful.
Tonight we were attacked by at least 5 to 1 odds (our 4 vs 20 of them) of course we were wiped out (as we have been on serveral occassions due the same problem), this leads to the fun quotion for us going down dramatically (at least for me) and I suspect others in my squad. It is nights like tonight that have led me to seriously consider dropping out of FSO all together (being ordered to attack alone as a mop up) since being "cannon fodder" gets old quick.
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The CIC didn't assign a credible amount of assets to your defensive mission, or your fellow squads didn't turn out in the numbers the CIC anticipated. As a member of a small 4-6 squad myself, I am sympathetic. We were overrun tonight for the same reason.
My point is that there are rules and procedures in place to keep this from happening, and the CIC in this case, chose not to follow them, or was inexperienced and didn't know any better.
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Boxboy understand your flustrati on. Although not directly related to your comment here's what I saw tonight. Also the 325th VFG had the same problem back about 2 years ago and we were getting wiped out every week. We fixed the problem and those comments are lower in this post.
The 325th VFG had your support duty for Frame 3. I assume your squad flew with LYNCHMOB as per the order or close by?? I assigned 2 of the 325th VFG pilots to provide close escort and more importantly communications between the Fighter Sweep (325th VFG) and your squad (801st and LYNCHMOB) since we lifted from different fields. I know you saw Lowtec and Kuhn with your squad or close by. As you know commo and situational awareness is everything in the FSO. That's why I provided 2 pilots to your strike element.
We also did our best to make it to A32 to sweep ahead of you. Your element had to do a few circles on the way to A32 because you got ahead of the sweep (325th VFG) Half way there the 325th VFG passed an enemy strike package headed towards A113. Lowtec got off a Spot Report on 150 and we did not engage that enemy element as I needed to get to A32 to support your efforts. Stoney74 I hope you saw the report, I know you got hit hard at A113. Without a doubt the enemy squad we passed radioed the same information on our position and that we were headed to A32.
About 25 miles from A32 we ran head on into a enemy squad co-alt at 27K numbering 15-20 (my estimate), just dots no IKON's. I elected to pull the enemy defenders (figuring I had them all) away and east from A32 and relayed that info to Lowtec and to your strike package. I continued to pull the enemy east until you made contact with the radar ring at A32 and then the enemy fighters chasing us all turned except for 4 back to A32. Lowtec relayed that your squad you had 4 minutes to do your damage before 15-20 Brewsters would be on you. My reports had the 110's over the A32 without any enemy contacts initially. But the clock was ticking....
At that point the 325th VFG turned west towards A32 chasing the 4 Brewsters back to A32 but we were 35-40 miles from A32 and there was no way we were going to make in time to help the 110's and I reported that as well. We did finally make it to A32 but after all of the 110's were downed. The Brewsters then shot all of us down except for 3 that escaped. For what it is worth that's what I saw and reported. Hind sight is always 20/20 and there are things I would do differently but at the time they seemed correct.
To your point about small squads getting mauled. The 325th VFG has the same issue a while back so we formed up with other squads to up our numbers. Because you are right the larger squads "generally" get the better missions. But importantly the large squad at 11-15 can handle a fight better than 4-6 guys. Making most missions fun. For about a year VF15 and the 325th VFG flew together and now they are a separate squad. Currently the Iron Horsemen (4 pilots) fly with us to up our numbers. The joining of smaller squads to form a larger squad works and it keeps us from getting wiped out every week. This is the solution I came up with to fix the situation at my end. There really is only 2 solutions: Recruit personnel or combine efforts with a another smaller squad in the same boat as you. Heck you and your squad are welcome to form with us and up the numbers the 325th VFG has the room. And to tell you the truth there isn't any difference as you and your guys would become a "flight element" within our squad. Which is exactly how we handled it with VF 15 and now the Iron Horsemen. Everyone has fun and your part of a larger element to protect each other. And you'll never have CIC duty again :lol A win, win for everyone.
Your also correct about smaller squads always getting the "filler" duty in the orders. I know as I have CIC'ed my fair share of Operations and done just that. The fact is that I very seldom would ever place a small 4-6 man squad in charge of a 20-30 ship strike package. I always place the large squad and CO in charge of the combined strike package or defensive mission as he has the largest element. I am pretty sure others plan it the same way. I do however always assign the small squads to the large squads and would never place all the small squads into a mass effort. Small squads are great for providing recon for a larger element or close in escort or I have placed them into perked AC on occasion and had them go bomber hunting or alike. But generally the smaller squads are filler's.
Personally I think the small squad 4-6 should be eliminated from an option and make the smallest squad 7-10. In the old days of the FSO a 4-6 man squad was fine when there was only 100 - 125 guys in play and there was no such thing as a "25 man" squad. Today with events pushing 500+ pilots its a lot different. And your comments reflect that as do my actions to increase the 325th VFG numbers. Heck at this rate in 5 years any squad manning under 25 will probably be in trouble :rolleyes: Doesn't mean you can't play, just means you need to link up and coordinate.
Boxboy again just my 2 cents on what I saw tonight and what the 325th VFG has done to combat the small squad issue. Hopefully you nor the 801st wont stop flying the FSO.
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Well I agree that the 4-6 man squads are just wasting their time with FSO, the way it is setup and probably ought to drop out of FSO till they can bet bigger numbers. The CIC cannot be blamed for wanting to win and using his big squads for the best and most fun missions especially since the way we do it both sides KNOW which targets will be attacked. Also our mission was not the best since we went in piecemeal vs a vary large squad with very good planes (Brew), the piecemeal attack allowed them to defeat us in elements while maintaining superior numbers (ie gangbang) and as far as I could tell the fighter sweep accomplished nothing and would have better served as escort, but as you say hindsight and all and "the best laid plans of mice and men oft times go astray".
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Tonight we were attacked by at least 5 to 1 odds (our 4 vs 20 of them)...
Don't make me bust out VMF-251's 12 to 1 Midway frame on yo' ass. :D
Actually, I think a better solution would be to bust up the monster squads. Eliminate the 16-21 option and larger.
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Don't make me bust out VMF-251's 12 to 1 Midway frame on yo' ass. :D
Actually, I think a better solution would be to bust up the monster squads. Eliminate the 16-21 option and larger.
Forcing the big squads to split up will simply drive us away. Yup, I'm in one of those 11-16 gangs. ;)
Seriously, the C-in-C can easily make sure that ~12 planes are on each mission by simply putting two smaller groups together. It's just a simple matter of planning. Any C-in-C who posts a mere 4 planes to CAP one of his assets has not put up a "credible" defense mission, IMHO.
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Well 801 Sqd. FAA actually chose option "B" which was delay our attack and hit the enemy when they were refueling. The problem is I didn't have the patience to delay the attack enough and the enemy was still up and ready. It's tough circling in enemy territory at 15k. I think next time it might be better to delay taking off and sit on the ground for 20 minutes. I waited until A32 stopped flashing and then we started our attack. A32 started flashing again while we were in bound and that's where I should have put on the brakes and loitered for a few more minutes. We attacked and I made a lousy bomb run so I circled back to strafe and then the brewsters hit us. It was over quickly :salute. I think our attack would have worked if we delayed 10 more minutes.
Cheers,
gus
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Interesting comments in this thread.
Eliminating the 4-6 squad and moving to 7-10 might work. But where do the squads just come up with new pilots? Merging squads is great if it can be done, but surely not all of the 4-6 squads will be able to do so.
The 412th is trying to grow for pretty much the same reason. When we come against big strike packages or lots of defenders. It is tough for the 412th to live and accomplish the objectives.
The 412th and another squad may have a solution by merging, its being discussed now.
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We (WD40) merged with the (Free Spirits) about a month ago.. We were both, low number squads. Ever since the merger we have had a blast.. :aok
The merger gave me 2 new officers, and 6 more players that show up every friday... :joystick:
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There's other problems in merging, including differing opinions on the direction of the squad (IE: some guys see AH as a big social party, even in FSO, while others want to be more disciplined) or which squad folds up shop to join the other.
This is why VMF-251 doesn't often accept non-roster volunteers on FSO night even if we need the numbers. I'd rather fly with 6 disciplined guys, than 16 that fly as a gaggle.
Don't mistake what I said earlier. I'm not necessarily advocating change in the squadron types, I'm just saying I believe eliminating the 16-21 and above would work out much better than eliminating the 4-6. However as pointed out, it's ultimately up to the CiC to ensure the smaller squadron is properly supported by another larger group.
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I'm in agreement with much of what's been said. While it's nice to see your MA squad's name in the orders and the logs, if your squad is small...well it's already been said what happens. Still, FSO is about cooperation and doing what you've been tasked to do in support of the CiC's overall plan. I was invited to fly with the 325th over a year ago and have had a blast. I just started rebuilding my MA squad, and we all (4 or us :D ) are wearing the uniform of the Checkertails in FSO. As Viper61 said, it's a win-win. I don't have to worry about CiC duty - I am not a tactician; I'm a warm body borrowing the crew-chief's airplane to hopefully bring back in one piece. Now that the Checkertails is a larger squad, we see less "cleanup" or "suicide" missions.
But even if you decide to not merge into a larger squad, you can still be successful. As has been said, the CiC should pair smaller squads with larger squads and not task them to twist in the wind all alone. When you get your orders, contact the CO of the squad(s) you will be fighting with. Coordinate efforts and keep communication fluid during the frame. If you think you're getting the bad draw, politely ask the CiC the reason and if he could change your role for the frame.
In either case, flying FSO is much more fun and demanding than the endless mind-numbing never-changing action in the Main Arenas. Some find it boring for 95% of the time, but for me it's fun flying in formation with 15 other guys and hooking up with other squads to fly as a package in a well-coordinated mission.
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The 353rd has combined with another squad in the past for Just FSO. Outside FSO the squad remains a separate unit. There are also squads that only fly in the MA that have a few pilots that would like to fly FSO that may want to do the same.
The way you get around the squads being broken up is that both small squads simply run under one or the other's name for the event. Once in the air though they still ride and communicate with their own squads within the assignment.
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My FSO squad is made up from 2 different MA squads. 71 Squadron RAF and the USMC guys, hence USMC/71 Squadron. It's great to fly with guys that you normally don't fly with and makes for getting advise from others that you don't normally fly with. It's a good idea to link with another if you feel your numbers are too low, and since your posting here, you must love flying FSO otherwise you would just quit. Try joining with another squad that has low numbers and it might make it that much more fun for ya! :aok
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Actually, I think a better solution would be to bust up the monster squads. Eliminate the 16-21 option and larger.
NOT
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I'm just saying I believe eliminating the 16-21 and above would work out much better than eliminating the 4-6.
:huh Rubbish
The reasons larger squads fare better in FSO is not just numbers. They communicate well within their squadron and act in concert. There is no reason if 3..4...or 5 smaller squadrons grouped together can't achieve the same success. The keys are communication and teamwork. Too often Squads in FSO act as lone wolves without the coordination of the group. Therefore they decide their own fate. The CiC's are required to issue orders in advance to allow proper communication among the squadrons. All it takes is someone in these groups to step up and initiate contact prior to and maintain it during the event. I'll assure you that if this were done more frequently, a lot of the smaller squadrons would enjoy their time in FSO.
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As CiC, the responsibility is to post a "credible force". What that consists of is is spelled out in the FSO rules. If the orders short change a CAP or Strike Package, then shame on the CiC. If it comes up short due to players not showing then thats something that needs to be handled in house inside the squad. The only difference between large/small squads is the smaller one will never be tasked by itself. (Unless some kind of scout/recon effort.) If shooting an email to another squads CO with your freq/plan is to much work I'd say FSO isn't for you. If the contact in the other squadron is stonewalling or ignoring you... then they are not doing their job. Unlike RL, CO's can't be relived for failing to hold up their end due to inaction. But, as a whole the FSO community will know and not want to work with that squadron.
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I am new to FSO and flying with the 801 Squad. At this point in my carrier, I still enjoy flying with a small squad. Flying with a smaller squad means you have to be on top of your game; there is no one there to clean things up if you miss. If BoxBoy didn't get two objects destroyed, we (the 801 Squad) would have gotten nothing for our efforts. Sure it is hard to hold your head up when you have your hands full trying to keep two batons twirling while leading the entire Brewster Marching Band as they shot you with spitballs, but there is a certain amount of pride knowing it took at least four of them to take you down.
The one thing I would like to see to give the smaller squads some recognition is to add two categories in the stats section of the event logs: Top Squads: Objects Destroyed per Pilot; and Top Squads: Kills per Pilot. The categories would take the total number of objects destroyed (or number of kills) and divide by the number of pilots in the squad and then show the top three squads. I say "add" because squads that get the most objects destroyed and kills should be recognized, but the smaller squads can not compete because of their fewer numbers and makes them feel less appreciated.
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Personally, as a CiC I tend to find the smaller squads easier to work with when it comes to min/max numbers on airframes. As a squad leader I generally don't like half my guys in one type and another half in another. It can make unit cohesion more difficult to maintain, particularly if my two "halves" are in rides of vastly differing performance (IE, in the VERY first Finland setup after the introduction of the Brewster I ended up with four Brewsters and four 109G-2s in my squadron). When I have a squad of 16-21 requesting a high-end ride allowed in limited numbers say--a 16-21 requests P-47Ms, but I'm only allowed 24 of them--it means either I have to assign all of them to one squadron and not allow them to any other squads that may desire that ride, or split a small number of those 24 across 2-3 different squadrons. OTOH, I can give those P-47s to two 7-10 or three 4-6 squadrons and not have to worry about "wasted" airframes or mixed units, which can be more complicated for the squad C/O to manage.
It also means I don't have to micromanage by telling a large squad, "Ok, you get eight of these. Any extra put in Plane B" and hope that everyone in that squad gets the memo from the C/O and doesn't up an extra limited ride.
That's one place where I find smaller squadrons like mine VERY valuable: plugging those awkward gaps in strike/defense group numbers or airframe requirements that the large squadrons can create.
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Sax brings up a good point. As a member of one of the larger squads, on average we see two, maybe three "hot" rides in a year. I doubt you'll ever see us roaming around as a pack of 262s. (We had a pair of them to use as scouts about 3 years ago.) There are pros and cons on both sides. As it stands right now its fairly workable.
Now, the point Mach raises; one of squad kill ratios. If figuring out who had the most kills per member floats your boat then go for it. I don't think the majority of the players really care. We all know who's been a pain in the arse to mess with by reputation and who leaves something to be desired. Trying to make to many people happy like that smacks of the "Warfare Pin For Every Job" thing the Navy is doing. I personally really don't care how a frame plays out big picture wise. (Unless I was CiC and planned it.)
1: Long as I had a good fight and got home.
2: Had a good fight and went down swinging.
3: Got bounced by a dozen NIKIs while I puttered along in my SBD alone and unafraid and lasted longer then six and a half seconds, I am happy with the frame.
As a squadron, I don't feel our job it to put up "big numbers". Only to have fun.
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Personally, as a CiC I tend to find the smaller squads easier to work with when it comes to min/max numbers on airframes. As a squad leader I generally don't like half my guys in one type and another half in another. It can make unit cohesion more difficult to maintain, particularly if my two "halves" are in rides of vastly differing performance (IE, in the VERY first Finland setup after the introduction of the Brewster I ended up with four Brewsters and four 109G-2s in my squadron). When I have a squad of 16-21 requesting a high-end ride allowed in limited numbers say--a 16-21 requests P-47Ms, but I'm only allowed 24 of them--it means either I have to assign all of them to one squadron and not allow them to any other squads that may desire that ride, or split a small number of those 24 across 2-3 different squadrons. OTOH, I can give those P-47s to two 7-10 or three 4-6 squadrons and not have to worry about "wasted" airframes or mixed units, which can be more complicated for the squad C/O to manage.
It also means I don't have to micromanage by telling a large squad, "Ok, you get eight of these. Any extra put in Plane B" and hope that everyone in that squad gets the memo from the C/O and doesn't up an extra limited ride.
That's one place where I find smaller squadrons like mine VERY valuable: plugging those awkward gaps in strike/defense group numbers or airframe requirements that the large squadrons can create.
The other point of view on this issue with split rides for a large squad is this. In Frame 2 for Operation Marita Axis, I had two squads with 22-27 for commitment level. I tasked them both with 10 Ju-88's and rest in Bf-110C's. Each squad had seperate target airfields. They were completely on their own.
From a CIC planning standpoint, having large squads makes it easier to defend and attack targets and deal with the mininums and maximums of assigned aircraft. Next time I'm up to bat, I would personally like to have 4 squads with 22-27 commitment levels on one side.
If a 4-6 squad feels like they are being the fodder for the other side, then by all means ask one of the other larger squads to merge with. The main reason is working with other players for the overall war effort. At the end of the day, it's the teamwork of many squads that wins the Frame. It's definetely not a player shooting down 10 planes. Impressive but not enough to be the defining moment.
We have 46 squads right now in FSO.
3 are 22-27
5 are 16-21
11 are 11-15
14 are 7-10
12 are 4-6
That's 8 large squads, 11 medium squads and 26 small squads. An experienced CIC who has the free time to spend 15 hours working on the orders can create a great mixture of assignments, aircraft allocation and fun for all. One of the key issues expressed earlier is that a merging of a small squad to a bigger one does make it easier on the CIC duty with more noggins working together. In the AK squad, we have 3 of us that work together on the CIC duties. A 4-6 squad might be the whole group planning together too.
Surviving in FSO is a valid aspiration at the beginning of the event. Part of the success is the only issue that comes down to the individual player. Spending time flying all aircraft in the MA's and not just your favorite 5. What will all the great planning and great communication do if the assigned pilot to the assigned plane have never met before until FSO?
Hey, everyone here's pays the same 14.95 a month and spends it how they want to.
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:huh Rubbish
The reasons larger squads fare better in FSO is not just numbers. They communicate well within their squadron and act in concert. There is no reason if 3..4...or 5 smaller squadrons grouped together can't achieve the same success. The keys are communication and teamwork. Too often Squads in FSO act as lone wolves without the coordination of the group. Therefore they decide their own fate. The CiC's are required to issue orders in advance to allow proper communication among the squadrons. All it takes is someone in these groups to step up and initiate contact prior to and maintain it during the event. I'll assure you that if this were done more frequently, a lot of the smaller squadrons would enjoy their time in FSO.
Rubbish NO 4 man squad no matter HOW good their commo is, is going to out fly and out gun a 20 man squad and any diatribe trying indicate different is "whistling by the graveyard". The hoard and gangbanging have long been a nemisis to online combat sims and they still are EVEN in the FSO
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Well 801 Sqd. FAA actually chose option "B" which was delay our attack and hit the enemy when they were refueling. The problem is I didn't have the patience to delay the attack enough and the enemy was still up and ready. It's tough circling in enemy territory at 15k. I think next time it might be better to delay taking off and sit on the ground for 20 minutes. I waited until A32 stopped flashing and then we started our attack. A32 started flashing again while we were in bound and that's where I should have put on the brakes and loitered for a few more minutes. We attacked and I made a lousy bomb run so I circled back to strafe and then the brewsters hit us. It was over quickly :salute. I think our attack would have worked if we delayed 10 more minutes.
Cheers,
gus
The problem was that the first strike package was spotted on the way in, no amount of waiting would have given us an advantage, since they would have fueled half and then the the next half, reulting in better than 2 v 1 odds at best :joystick:
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The problem was that the first strike package was spotted on the way in, no amount of waiting would have given us an advantage, since they would have fueled half and then the the next half, reulting in better than 2 v 1 odds at best :joystick:
The question is, 'How many defended 113'? If you defended 113 by yourselves' (4-6) than I see your point. If you had help, then a propper defense strategy should have been in place.(co-op).. :headscratch:
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The question is, 'How many defended 113'? If you defended 113 by yourselves' (4-6) than I see your point. If you had help, then a propper defense strategy should have been in place.(co-op).. :headscratch:
we were not on defense we were a mop up strike package assigned to try and catch the cap on the ground refueling, but since the main strike package and the figther sweep ahead of us was spotted we had no chance of catching the cap on the ground.
Our fighter sweep did not kill any of the cap apparently and only tried to lure them away from the target, which failed and then we were left to fend for outselves I guess since I never saw the fighter sweep return (maybe the cap killed them all??).
All in all the 20 man cap squad did a great job and our plan failed miserably :)
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Interesting comments in this thread.
Very.
I will never eliminate the smaller squads in FSO, nor will I force the break up of larger squads.
Yes sometimes the smaller squads get overwhelmed, but as others have already pointed out if smaller squads are coupled with other squads, that issue can often be avoided. Often, not always. Even as scripted as FSO can be you have plenty of unknowns and sometimes things don't work out even if the CiC has done a great job. I feel your pain Boxboy. Been there. So has just about every other mid size squad on down. Sometimes we have a lousy week, other times it seems to run the whole FSO.
FSO is a squad based event. All squads are welcome. If that means just two buddies who like to fly together want to sign up for FSO, they are welcome. If a mega squad from the MA wants to try out FSO, they can. So long as the squad of 2 and the 30+ MA squad can follow the rules and support FSO as everyone else has to, they are welcome to participate and enjoy the best of Aces High.
Sorry things were ugly for you Boxboy. Hopefully April will be an improvement for you and your squad.
MachNix, I really like this idea. :aok
The one thing I would like to see to give the smaller squads some recognition is to add two categories in the stats section of the event logs: Top Squads: Objects Destroyed per Pilot; and Top Squads: Kills per Pilot. The categories would take the total number of objects destroyed (or number of kills) and divide by the number of pilots in the squad and then show the top three squads. I say "add" because squads that get the most objects destroyed and kills should be recognized, but the smaller squads can not compete because of their fewer numbers and makes them feel less appreciated.
I will ask how hard that would be to setup in the log parser. My guess is it will not be easy, but it can't hurt to ask. :)
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How about this DD, walkons are assigned to small squads and the squad they are assigned to WILL take them, this allows for new guys to learn about FSO and lets small squad have more bodies and perhaps if they like what they see some new members. I this last frame we had several guys and we were messing around finding them slots till almost launch time, whereas if they were given to a side and the CIC for that side just assigned them to small squads 4-6 we might get more guys and bigger squads??
I know some squads don't want new blood but I bet this would work in the main.
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Hi Boxboy.
I dont think allowing walkons would ever be approved.
If they did how would you handle the disruptive individuals?
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How about this DD, walkons are assigned to small squads and the squad they are assigned to WILL take them, this allows for new guys to learn about FSO and lets small squad have more bodies and perhaps if they like what they see some new members. I this last frame we had several guys and we were messing around finding them slots till almost launch time, whereas if they were given to a side and the CIC for that side just assigned them to small squads 4-6 we might get more guys and bigger squads??
I know some squads don't want new blood but I bet this would work in the main.
No.
VMF-251 specifically avoids taking in walk-ons and volunteers unless it's someone we know and have flown with before. I don't want an unknown element in my squad that will just turn out to be a liability to us as a unit. I sure as hell don't want that FORCED on me.
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we were not on defense we were a mop up strike package assigned to try and catch the cap on the ground refueling, but since the main strike package and the figther sweep ahead of us was spotted we had no chance of catching the cap on the ground.
Our fighter sweep did not kill any of the cap apparently and only tried to lure them away from the target, which failed and then we were left to fend for outselves I guess since I never saw the fighter sweep return (maybe the cap killed them all??).
All in all the 20 man cap squad did a great job and our plan failed miserably :)
Boxboy, with all due respect, what other changes need to be made when it boils down to your own admission of not executing a plan? :headscratch:
I trust that CIC's do all they can to ensure fun for all and not to overload a side. Yet all it takes is for one element of that plan to not be executed properly and it starts to fall apart as was in your case so it seems.
Better coordination with other squads go a long way in your success.
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As the CIC of the Allied forces in frame 3, and as it happens one of the pilots of Rolling Thunder which were designated to defend A32 I have some input on this for you Boxboy....
First of all, I agree with WxMan on this. A good deal of the issue here is Communications. As CIC I spent a good 15+ hrs on my work, and ensured credible forces as dictated by the rules were assigned every defensive and offensive operation. I've seen orders come out that just say "Squad XXX hit field XXX in this plane" and that's it. It's a spreadsheet and no map. I've seen complicated orders sent out with maps, spreadsheets, directions and even some flavor added in. Saxman had a great set of orders a few FSO's back. The point is, someone needs to put in the time to get squads coordinated.
I'm also in a unique position of having been the CO of a smaller 4-6 FSO squad. I was CO of the Haze for quite a while and we found that our experience in the FSO would be enhanced if we joined a bigger squad. Over the course of the next year we went squad shopping and met some outstanding pilots in many squads. We looked at a good many squads, and flew with some for quite a while looking for that perfect Jive Mojo for our group. All the squads we flew with had a great group of guys, but many had different flying styles. We finally settled with the Rolling Thunder a while back and have been happy campers ever since. A big <Salute> to those other squads we flew with. Much respect and gratitude for allowing us a chance to fly with you.
Secondly, Not all CIC's give the small squads the shaft. Again this comes down to how much effort a CIC puts into his orders. I looked at rides flown in previous frames, requests for certain aircraft, and the capabilities of a squad to do the job assigned to them. I know some squads are better off than others at bombing, some better at escorting, etc. And in the case of having smaller squads as flight lead, absolutely I did. Squads build a reputation and by that reputation get known. I know I can count on some squads to do EXACTLY what I tell them. I know other squads are a little more "rouge" if you will. Perfect example, I knew the 68th Lightning Lancers could handle a VERY tough assignment to bomb A127, with only a light escort of their own pilots and they pulled it off brilliantly, if at a cost to themselves. <S> 68th! Flight lead is the same way, I assigned a 4-6 squad flight lead of a larger force, because I knew I could trust that squads judgment. So not everything is cut and dry.
If you want to remain as a small squad, communication is going to be VERY important. Email the squads your assigned with (because you should be assigned at LEAST a 7-10 or more as companions), get in touch with them, and find out their plan. Assign someone to their comms to monitor position and orders. Communicate via text channels. You have to make an effort to stay in formation with them. Coming in piece meal will just get you shot down.
Lastly, FSO is an unknown factor. Sometimes people show up, sometimes they don't. Sometimes you get the dirty bucket for detail, sometimes you don't. What you put into it, is what you'll get out. If you just show up to fly, knowing where you need to go...well that's all your gonna get. Above all, conduct your squad in a manner that reflects you positively. Make that effort regardless of outcome. Even if you all go down screaming and in flames.....you tried your best to accomplish the mission the CIC set to you, and that's the best you can do. No one will fault you for that, and in the end, people will realize that you can handle yourselves, assign you the good duties, and even put you in charge of a flight group.
Hope that helps muchacho!
<S> Sir.
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Excellent post Chapel. :aok
Boxboy, sorry but walkon's are not allowed. Too many thing they can screw up. With kill shooter off they can ruin the night of several players and that is just 'one' of a host of things they could do to make things more difficult for players and CM's.
Feel free to post and drum up business in the FSO forum. We often have players wanting to participate in FSO, but their squad does not fly in FSO. So long as the communication is done prior via e-mails/PM's/forum posts and they understand what FSO is about, all is good. But if they walk in and start advertising themselves looking for a slot, trouble will start for them and any squad that picks them up.
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I guess I am confused ?????? the last frame we had about 5 or 6 guys looking for a squad were these NOT walkons???
As for following orders, as far as I know 801 has ALWAYS followed our orders to the best of our ability and instructions. I see nothing in ANYTHING I posted to indicate we failed in our orders.
As for joining with a larger squad (this seems to prove my point not the other way round) that would be up to our CO and not to me. I have simply stated MY experience since starting with FSO.
I was an NCO in the service and KNOW that the last thing a planner does is blame his troops for a failure of a plan, there are always variables that can happen that can ruin a good plan or make a bad plan work so it was never my intent to disparage the CIC in this last frame, if it was taken that way I apologize.
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Walk on players are not allowed in FSO.
http://ahevents.org/fso-related/fso-walk-ons.html
Does that mean some some get in under radar. Yup. Probably happens every month. :) Players that walk on and ask on 200 for a squad usually get PM'ed by a CM and are politely asked to contact squads a head of time. Most of the time they quietly leave and that is that. You will see that just about every Friday night. Sometimes they persist and are escorted out. Other times a squad might pick them up and if noted by a CM I send a warning to the squad.
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Its a problem of CiCs assigning too few defenders to a target.
How in the world does the size of the squad matter???
Fine, your an 11-15 squad. Wonderfull, you show up with lets say 12 players. I will assign *just your squad* to CAP A34. Ok, then the attackers come in with 10 formations of Ju-88s, and 14 escorts. You are outnumbered 2-1 in players and almost 4-1 in a/c. Did that help? no it did not. Why? because squad size does not matter, what matters is ***how the CiCs divvy up their forces***.
If you are a 4-6 squad and are assigned with one other 4-6 squad to CAP a base, tell the CiC that that is not enough. You should be paired with at least another 7-10 squad minimum, and preferably a larger squad than that.
Squad sizes in and of themselves has NOTHING to do with it.
That being said, I know the problems that you are speaking of, and I am sympathetic, I have been there myself, but you are aiming at the wrong solution my friend. :salute