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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: 2Slow on March 29, 2010, 10:45:37 PM

Title: Industrial Center city blocks ord
Post by: 2Slow on March 29, 2010, 10:45:37 PM
What is the ordinance requirement for a city block destruction?
Title: Re: Industrial Center city blocks ord
Post by: lagger86 on March 30, 2010, 12:21:14 AM
"The Nuke"  :bolt:
Title: Re: Industrial Center city blocks ord
Post by: AirFlyer on March 30, 2010, 12:36:14 AM
250lbs I believe, same as a town building.
Title: Re: Industrial Center city blocks ord
Post by: Easyscor on March 30, 2010, 12:37:36 AM
They are CIT objects, 325 iirc, you can check offline.
Title: Re: Industrial Center city blocks ord
Post by: Karnak on March 30, 2010, 01:55:31 AM
The 100kg bombs from the Ki-67 seem to do the trick just fine.
Title: Re: Industrial Center city blocks ord
Post by: 2Slow on March 30, 2010, 11:07:00 AM
They are CIT objects, 325 iirc, you can check offline.

I did check offline.  It shows 0.8438 of a 1000 lb bomb.  So it looks like a formation salvo of 250 pounders is out.  Formation salvo of 500 lbs (500 x 3) is required.

This seems a bit steep to me.
Title: Re: Industrial Center city blocks ord
Post by: jay on March 30, 2010, 11:14:03 AM
one ENTIRE city block is 250lbs (so carpet bombing wastes bor bombs than dropping them one at a time)
Title: Re: Industrial Center city blocks ord
Post by: Krusty on March 30, 2010, 11:14:25 AM
Carpet bombing is fine. Just set a delay!
Title: Re: Industrial Center city blocks ord
Post by: jay on March 30, 2010, 11:24:33 AM
so that is what delay does  :bolt:
Title: Re: Industrial Center city blocks ord
Post by: Krusty on March 30, 2010, 11:26:02 AM
You've never used salvo and delay together?

Duuuuude... Strat bombing is much better with delays. We used them to good effect in the Red Storm scenario, delaying so each "stick" of bombs spread out across a strat from end to end for best damage.
Title: Re: Industrial Center city blocks ord
Post by: Flayed on March 30, 2010, 12:21:12 PM
You've never used salvo and delay together?

Duuuuude... Strat bombing is much better with delays. We used them to good effect in the Red Storm scenario, delaying so each "stick" of bombs spread out across a strat from end to end for best damage.

  With this super accurate bomb sight we have I see no need for delay, sometimes salvo but I find good old mister thumb does just perfectly.  The only time where I see salvo and delay being of value to me is if I happen to be under heavy attack and want to get to my gun fast but I hardly ever seem to have this problem.
Title: Re: Industrial Center city blocks ord
Post by: druski85 on March 30, 2010, 12:24:00 PM
  With this super accurate bomb sight we have I see no need for delay, sometimes salvo but I find good old mister thumb does just perfectly.  The only time where I see salvo and delay being of value to me is if I happen to be under heavy attack and want to get to my gun fast but I hardly ever seem to have this problem.

+1.  Never had need for delay myself.  It looks cool, but is ultimately less efficient than spaced out single drops according to building clusters.
Title: Re: Industrial Center city blocks ord
Post by: 2Slow on March 30, 2010, 12:28:16 PM
You've never used salvo and delay together?

Duuuuude... Strat bombing is much better with delays. We used them to good effect in the Red Storm scenario, delaying so each "stick" of bombs spread out across a strat from end to end for best damage.

New industrial center is a bit large.  Each city block is 628.5 feet square.  @ 270 mph (20k + alt) one can only get 7 blocks.  The delay required for 12 500 pounders is .93.  16 250 lber's can stretch out to 10 blocks with a delay of .99.

A nice trick is to bomb along a "section line."  The street that seperates the blocks.  With 500 lbers and their blast radious one can get as many as 14 blocks.  My best has been 12.

I keep hearing 250 lbs per block.  However, a City shows as needing .8438 of 1000 pounds.  Which is about 844 pounds.

Thus my original question in this thread,  what does it take to destroy a city block.
Title: Re: Industrial Center city blocks ord
Post by: 2Slow on March 30, 2010, 12:30:13 PM
I use the single salvo and delay setting for realism and for Flayed's reason.
Title: Re: Industrial Center city blocks ord
Post by: RamPytho on March 31, 2010, 08:57:32 AM
You have to remember that each drone is dropping a 250Lb bomb also. So your hitting that area with 750 lb worth of ord.
Title: Re: Industrial Center city blocks ord
Post by: Krusty on March 31, 2010, 10:35:41 AM
Also, when you drop even a single bomb you start accelerating. If you pickle them off one by one over a very short distance it's not much of an issue. If you do it across the mega strat, your bombs won't be hitting where you want by the time you drop the last one. You'll be going faster than calibrated and bombs will start to drop long very quickly.
Title: Re: Industrial Center city blocks ord
Post by: druski85 on March 31, 2010, 11:21:29 AM
Also, when you drop even a single bomb you start accelerating. If you pickle them off one by one over a very short distance it's not much of an issue. If you do it across the mega strat, your bombs won't be hitting where you want by the time you drop the last one. You'll be going faster than calibrated and bombs will start to drop long very quickly.

Quite true Krusty, but a long delay or bombing pattern does nothing to change this.  This will happen across a mega strat whether your bombs are delayed or pickled.  Also, with town or strat buildings you don't really need to be precise in most cases.  (Unless of course you are working with weee little bombs)
Title: Re: Industrial Center city blocks ord
Post by: 321BAR on March 31, 2010, 11:25:14 AM
just use the MOAB of AHII and fly the Lanc with the 4 grander  :D :D :D this baby doesnt need an intro :D
Title: Re: Industrial Center city blocks ord
Post by: Krusty on March 31, 2010, 11:34:44 AM
Quite true Krusty, but a long delay or bombing pattern does nothing to change this.  This will happen across a mega strat whether your bombs are delayed or pickled.  Also, with town or strat buildings you don't really need to be precise in most cases.  (Unless of course you are working with weee little bombs)

You are correct that it doesn't change with a delay. I guess it just takes your mind off the fact that you know you're going for mass random damage, and don't care where the bombs land as long as they make something go "boom" when they do!

I was also pointing it out for folks that salvo 1 trying to put the bombs at the corners of "blocks" to get the most damage. After the first egg you're not hitting those corners anymore.

PoTAYto, poTAHto, I guess.
Title: Re: Industrial Center city blocks ord
Post by: BowHTR on March 31, 2010, 01:20:09 PM
then wouldnt setting your speed fix the issue of accelerating? .speed XXX
Title: Re: Industrial Center city blocks ord
Post by: Easyscor on March 31, 2010, 01:44:24 PM
<snip>  The only time where I see salvo and delay being of value to me is if I happen to be under heavy attack and want to get to my gun fast but I hardly ever seem to have this problem.

Your drop will be interrupted if you leave the bombsight or cockpit during a salvo drop with delay. Worse, the bombs start dropping again when you return to either cockpit or bombsight position.
Title: Re: Industrial Center city blocks ord
Post by: Krusty on March 31, 2010, 02:23:34 PM
then wouldnt setting your speed fix the issue of accelerating? .speed XXX

No, because your .speed means you climb or dive to maintain that speed, because you can't use auto climb while in the bombsite, and because any variation in climb/drop vastly throws off your aiming point.
Title: Re: Industrial Center city blocks ord
Post by: WMLute on March 31, 2010, 02:53:16 PM
You have to remember that each drone is dropping a 250Lb bomb also. So your hitting that area with 750 lb worth of ord.

to add...

250lb = .315 vs hardness value

so 3x 250lb bombs = .945.

So indeed yes, you can drop one 250lb bomb (1 per drone) and kill a city block rated at .8438

If you are attacking the city strat use the 250lb bomb package as the 500lb would be overkill.
Title: Re: Industrial Center city blocks ord
Post by: Krusty on March 31, 2010, 02:56:20 PM
In other words, close blast radii reinfoce each other, creating more boom than dropping separate bombs!

I found this out a long long time back with a Ju88.

I was having fun pickling a single 50kg bomb at an old strat. I think it was a city. I would drop a single 50kg on a single building, and it didn't go down. I came around and repeated. It was still up. A third finally finished it off. However, choosing another building I dropped 2 in salvo, and together they both were able to take down the building in 1 drop.
Title: Re: Industrial Center city blocks ord
Post by: Flayed on March 31, 2010, 03:50:30 PM
Your drop will be interrupted if you leave the bombsight or cockpit during a salvo drop with delay. Worse, the bombs start dropping again when you return to either cockpit or bombsight position.

 As you can tell I just don't use it lol. :D    :salute
Title: Re: Industrial Center city blocks ord
Post by: 2Slow on April 01, 2010, 05:52:06 PM
You have to remember that each drone is dropping a 250Lb bomb also. So your hitting that area with 750 lb worth of ord.

Duh

0.8438 of a 1000 pound (844 pounds) requirement is a bit more than 250 X 3 (750 pounds).

Disregard the above.  I see I missed some other post about object hardness.  I thought that the hardness was a percentage of 1000.  So how is hardness calculated?
Title: Re: Industrial Center city blocks ord
Post by: 2Slow on April 01, 2010, 06:04:30 PM
You are correct that it doesn't change with a delay. I guess it just takes your mind off the fact that you know you're going for mass random damage, and don't care where the bombs land as long as they make something go "boom" when they do!

I was also pointing it out for folks that salvo 1 trying to put the bombs at the corners of "blocks" to get the most damage. After the first egg you're not hitting those corners anymore.

PoTAYto, poTAHto, I guess.

The 4 corner strike is quite effective.  With my single salvo I know I am waisting some ord.  That is why I drop along the avenue seperating the blocks.  Since we are limited to delays of less than one second one cannot get a delay salvo to stretch out to the four corner target point.
Title: Re: Industrial Center city blocks ord
Post by: WMLute on April 01, 2010, 06:56:24 PM
So how is hardness calculated?

Hardness is bases on 1k of ord.

Where most get confused is because of how AH models bomb strength.

These are the hardness settings:

The gun and rocket power can be found here (http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/guns/guns.htm)

Regarding bomb strength, I'd have to dig through my notes to put together a full list.  Just from info I have readily on hand:
2,000lb = 1.8197 vs hardness value (off the top of my head if that's not it it's close)
1,000lb = 1.000 vs hardness value
500lb = .568 vs hardness value
250lb = .315 vs hardness value

So a 250lb bomb is really closer to a 315lb bomb and a 2k bomb is roughly a 1,800lb bomb.

Which is why 3x250lb bombs will kill something set to a hardness of .8xxx
Title: Re: Industrial Center city blocks ord
Post by: Easyscor on April 02, 2010, 09:44:11 AM
Splash damage multiplies that (645) by a bit more to do the job.

Also, the .8xx is a new hardness, for the new city squares, compared to the old city building hardness. I hadn't noticed it until it was pointed out in this thread.
Title: Re: Industrial Center city blocks ord
Post by: 2Slow on April 02, 2010, 10:49:43 AM
Hardness is bases on 1k of ord.

Where most get confused is because of how AH models bomb strength.
Regarding bomb strength, I'd have to dig through my notes to put together a full list.  Just from info I have readily on hand:
2,000lb = 1.8197 vs hardness value (off the top of my head if that's not it it's close)
1,000lb = 1.000 vs hardness value
500lb = .568 vs hardness value
250lb = .315 vs hardness value

So a 250lb bomb is really closer to a 315lb bomb and a 2k bomb is roughly a 1,800lb bomb.

Which is why 3x250lb bombs will kill something set to a hardness of .8xxx


Thank you, thank you, and thank you.  I was starting to feel mathematically challenged.  Now I see it is a matter of a good intelligence source.
Title: Re: Industrial Center city blocks ord
Post by: 2Slow on August 16, 2010, 10:35:33 PM
Your drop will be interrupted if you leave the bombsight or cockpit during a salvo drop with delay. Worse, the bombs start dropping again when you return to either cockpit or bombsight position.

Why?  Game thing?  Seems to me that I press the pickle and release, they start falling and should continue even if I leave the the bombsight.  Autopilot continues to work when I went to bombsight or gunner?  The engines don't stop because I am no longer in the cockpit.
Title: Re: Industrial Center city blocks ord
Post by: Easyscor on August 17, 2010, 01:07:30 AM
Hey now, don't quote me if you're going to ask the Why question. I'm happy if I can occasionally answer a What question, which is becoming more rare every day.   :uhoh
Title: Re: Industrial Center city blocks ord
Post by: 2Slow on August 17, 2010, 10:11:06 AM
Hey now, don't quote me if you're going to ask the Why question. I'm happy if I can occasionally answer a What question, which is becoming more rare every day.   :uhoh

Perhaps you may be able to pass this onto the Why staff.  My attempts for their attention has been met with fraught.
Title: Re: Industrial Center city blocks ord
Post by: Rino on August 17, 2010, 12:18:24 PM
I did check offline.  It shows 0.8438 of a 1000 lb bomb.  So it looks like a formation salvo of 250 pounders is out.  Formation salvo of 500 lbs (500 x 3) is required.

This seems a bit steep to me.

     You think 1500 lbs of explosive is steep to destroy an entire city block?  :lol
I guess so if they were made of paper or straw  :D
Title: Re: Industrial Center city blocks ord
Post by: 2Slow on August 17, 2010, 12:45:22 PM
     You think 1500 lbs of explosive is steep to destroy an entire city block?  :lol
I guess so if they were made of paper or straw  :D

Nope.  I was just looking for an answer.  Paper or straw?  Hmmm...Japan in the 40's?...   ;)