Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Plawranc on April 06, 2010, 12:21:46 AM
-
I have been playing AH2 for about 2 1/2 years now and as far as I can make out BnZ is my least favourite tactic.
I would like to say that its because I am a knight of the air and like to do battle with dignity but such is not the case. It is because it is just too difficult.
WW2 Aircraft have such low tolerance to speed and G-Force that with combat you only have one chance to pull off a succesful attack.
Now the ratio changes with the aircraft your flying, the P-51 seems to be the worst choice and yet it is used by so many for this purpose. It is an unstable firing platform and compresses easily. And if that werent enough the 50's do little damage unless a decisive burst finds its mark.
The Typhoon and Tempest are the best at this role, the Hispano cannons have brilliant ballistics and do tonnes of damage with just one hit and both aircraft have high tolerence to speed and G.
So with all this in mind, why do so many follow this tactic, well my response would be that they do not know the performance of their aircraft and the little tricks assocsiated with it to fight in a turn or E battle.
So it seems that the most difficult tactic is by far the easiest.
Any thoughts?
-
(http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu262/amxfiend/YourGay.jpg)
-
IN
-
(http://geekening.com/books/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/office_space_kit_mat.jpg)
-
How do you figure the P-51 has poor handling at speed? So far as I have been able to tell, the P-51D is quite probably the best piston engined fighter as far as handling at very high speeds goes. Certainly I've never had a compression problem with it.
-
so the guy wants to know what people think and all he gets is flamed by the so called vets....
that's nice, why help him out when you can just flame away .....
-
Any thoughts?
lay off the moonshine! :P
-
the P-51 .... It is an unstable firing platform and compresses easily. And if that werent enough the 50's do little damage unless a decisive burst finds its mark.
Any thoughts?
Uhhh... I disagree with all of the above except.... "your thoughts?"
-
BnZ done propperly is not a one of pass or picking someone who is low and slow already engaged, imho BnZ is all about calculated angles of attack to knock your oppenents E state down, and to herd/move him into a postion you want to get a guns solutions. Most first time passes do very really result in a kill anyway.
-
(http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu262/amxfiend/YourGay.jpg)
Not vary bright there, bagrat.
-
The way I use BnZ is like a club, I pound my opponent down and down and down. I force him to convert his altitude into E in order to dodge me, eventually he either tries to hang onto too much E or he runs out of "down" and I bleed him of the rest of his E and kill him. You can't do that if you are not aggressive as the target will rebuild its E while you p u s s yfoot around with silly "extending". Maintain your E advantage by not bleeding it out for low chance shots, but press the target and make him spend his E to dodge as you climb back above him only to drop back down like a hammer on his nail. Make him bleed it out like that and soon you are rewarded with a shot that is not a low chance shot as he gets desperate and does something reckless or simply runs out of the E needed to dodge effectively.
-
:rolleyes: <---LOOK! This is me rolling my eyes. The P51 compresses easily AND is a unstable gun platform? I suggest you slow down and work on your aim there ace :aok
-
I have no least or favorite tactic.
I use whatever tactic the situation calls for.
And thats the key. Knowing what tactic to use in a given situation
-
so the guy wants to know what people think and all he gets is flamed by the so called vets....
that's nice, why help him out when you can just flame away .....
(http://cdn1.knowyourmeme.com/i/3309/original/i-dunno-lol.jpg)
On a serious note; when a person posts a question which is to stupid to respond to with a serious answer, trolling is the only viable option.
-
The P-51 doesn't compress easily, try a 109 or a 38 for that. The typhoon has a tendency to nose up at
very high speeds but is very controllable.
One thing you should try is anticipate the opponent's break. If a guy breaks left all the time, offset a little right
to allow a lower G pursuit turn. On the other side, don't use the same tactic/evasive all the time yourself...it makes
you predictable.
The tiffy has excellent rudder response for a high initial turn rate, but bleeds E like a stuck pig so hit and git.
-
To me, you always see ppl BnZing in the P-51 so they can run away after their E advantage is lost.
-
Maybe it's time to go to the Help and Training forum and read this thread: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,286402.0.html
-
To me, you always see ppl BnZing in the P-51 so they can run away after their E advantage is lost.
Yeah, why don't they stay and die like I want em to??? :rolleyes:
-
I guess when the 51 compresses you are simply diving from too high and for too long or too steep. When the 51 starts to squeak its a sign u are building too much speed, and then it will be harder to turn. But keep it just below that speed and my guess is you will find it much easier to manouvre around your target. It will still be alot faster than most of the other fighters, and in that speed it turns great. The 51 also have the ability to give it one notch of flaps at high speeds to make it turn even harder.. At the cost of bleeding off E faster offcourse, so use it wisely.
In my opinion the P51 is a great BNZ machine..
-
Yeah, why don't they stay and die like I want em to??? :rolleyes:
Exactly! :D
-
The way I use BnZ is like a club, I pound my opponent down and down and down. I force him to convert his altitude into E in order to dodge me, eventually he either tries to hang onto too much E or he runs out of "down" and I bleed him of the rest of his E and kill him. You can't do that if you are not aggressive as the target will rebuild its E while you p u s s yfoot around with silly "extending". Maintain your E advantage by not bleeding it out for low chance shots, but press the target and make him spend his E to dodge as you climb back above him only to drop back down like a hammer on his nail. Make him bleed it out like that and soon you are rewarded with a shot that is not a low chance shot as he gets desperate and does something reckless or simply runs out of the E needed to dodge effectively.
Beautiful writeup for something that I cannot possibly put into words. The key is the aggressively sapping their E part. Eventually you will be rewarded with a great shot opportunity. :aok
-
I have been playing AH2 for about 2 1/2 years now and as far as I can make out BnZ is my least favourite tactic.
I would like to say that its because I am a knight of the air and like to do battle with dignity but such is not the case. It is because it is just too difficult.
WW2 Aircraft have such low tolerance to speed and G-Force that with combat you only have one chance to pull off a succesful attack.
If you find yourself only having one chance to pull of a successful BnZ pass, that just means you really don't know how to properly BnZ. Which could explain why such a rather simple tactic is difficult for you.
Now the ratio changes with the aircraft your flying, the P-51 seems to be the worst choice and yet it is used by so many for this purpose. It is an unstable firing platform and compresses easily. And if that werent enough the 50's do little damage unless a decisive burst finds its mark.
The P-51D is probably one of the better BnZ planes in the game. It is stable, in both flight and as a gun platform and if you know how to aim, those 6x .50 cals are deadly. The fact that you really don't know the characteristics of the P-51 could explain why you have such a tough time with a simple tactic like BnZ.
The Typhoon and Tempest are the best at this role, the Hispano cannons have brilliant ballistics and do tonnes of damage with just one hit and both aircraft have high tolerence to speed and G.
So with all this in mind, why do so many follow this tactic, well my response would be that they do not know the performance of their aircraft and the little tricks assocsiated with it to fight in a turn or E battle.
So it seems that the most difficult tactic is by far the easiest.
Any thoughts?
You probably have more success in the Typhoon or Tempest while "BnZing" because run away...err I mean extend half a sector until the other guy gets bored and you come back for a pick.
My suggestion to you would be to chuck your hubris about how great you are and how you can whip anyone in a Spitfire Mk XVI and seek the help of a trainer to learn basically what is one of the most simple tactics to use and learn how to properly BnZ.
ack-ack
-
Im not huge fan of the BnZ, but I've never compressed in a P51. Maybe my first week in the game.
-
Im not huge fan of the BnZ, but I've never compressed in a P51. Maybe my first week in the game.
I hardly fly the p51 and I have never compressed even while diving straight down. Somebody tell steve he's supposed to compressed once in a while :D.
semp
-
Stupid image removed.
That's "you're". It's short for "you" and "are" combined. Your is possessive which begs the question, "Your Gay what?"
-
WW2 Aircraft have such low tolerance to speed and G-Force that with combat you only have one chance to pull off a succesful attack.
I guess you never ran into Ack-Ack in his P-38 ... as described by Karnac, Ack-Ack will beat you down with successive aggressive BnZ passes. If you are good, you may last until you reach tree top level and then you have no where to go ... if you aren't good, he will most likely get you by the 2nd or 3rd pass ... I speak from 1st hand experience.
Now the ratio changes with the aircraft your flying, the P-51 seems to be the worst choice and yet it is used by so many for this purpose. It is an unstable firing platform and compresses easily. And if that werent enough the 50's do little damage unless a decisive burst finds its mark.
Guess you don't really know how to fly the P-51 ... it is the complete opposite of what you described ... and the 6 .50 cals are extremely deadly.
So with all this in mind, why do so many follow this tactic, well my response would be that they do not know the performance of their aircraft and the little tricks assocsiated with it to fight in a turn or E battle.
Looks like you need to bone up on your knowledge of the performance of certain aircraft. The F4Us are excellent at proper BnZ as well as the F6-F, and let's not forget a well flown P-47.
-
If my life depended on it Id BnZ till the cows came home. I dont fly that way often in game though. What some get out of it, like Karnak stated, the wearing down of the opponent, I try to do the same defensively. Avoiding being hit, and milking the guy with the advantage down low. We are both losing alt this way afterall. Once it gets to a certain point, that guy has to make a decision...should I stay or should I go. Many stay. I like those guys :)
-
Heres how you get better at BnZing...
Hop in something like a K4 or G14
Take them up above some enemy red guys
See if you can hit anything
keep doing this till they are gone
Serious now....I like to pull a spot about 1K from them without making a move toward them while slowing up a bit. Then I dive in like a eagle on a fish at almost full power and get them before they can make a real move.
-
To me, you always see ppl BnZing in the P-51 so they can run away after their E advantage is lost.
Once you've lost E while B N Zing. you better know how to do something else. Cause running away at that point usually only ends up with bullets comming throught eh back of your head
-
:headscratch:
51 compresses easy?
-
:headscratch:
51 compresses easy?
Yea, all you have to do is to be 20k, dive with WEP and watch the spectacular crash.
-
Yea, all you have to do is to be 20k, dive with WEP and watch the spectacular crash.
:lol
I can see that but only that, even then add a bit of trim....
-
The way I use BnZ is like a club, I pound my opponent down and down and down. I force him to convert his altitude into E in order to dodge me, eventually he either tries to hang onto too much E or he runs out of "down" and I bleed him of the rest of his E and kill him. You can't do that if you are not aggressive as the target will rebuild its E while you p u s s yfoot around with silly "extending". Maintain your E advantage by not bleeding it out for low chance shots, but press the target and make him spend his E to dodge as you climb back above him only to drop back down like a hammer on his nail. Make him bleed it out like that and soon you are rewarded with a shot that is not a low chance shot as he gets desperate and does something reckless or simply runs out of the E needed to dodge effectively.
This is exactly how I do it too. BnZ is really just one facet of E fighting.
-
This is exactly how I do it too. BnZ is really just one facet of E fighting.
That was far too short a reply from you. :D
-
(http://cdn1.knowyourmeme.com/i/3309/original/i-dunno-lol.jpg)
On a serious note; when a person posts a question which is to stupid to respond to with a serious answer, trolling is the only viable option.
ok
-
(http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu262/amxfiend/YourGay.jpg)
Bagrat...man oh man u nailed it
(http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu262/amxfiend/YourGay.jpg)
-
How do you figure the P-51 has poor handling at speed? So far as I have been able to tell, the P-51D is quite probably the best piston engined fighter as far as handling at very high speeds goes. Certainly I've never had a compression problem with it.
at high speeds the p51 is definitely not the best. jug, hog, typh/temp, 190/152 to name a few that handle a lot better at high speeds. i'd be much more worried about a diving jug, hog, or typh than i would a pony.
-
I have been playing AH2 for about 2 1/2 years now and as far as I can make out BnZ is my least favourite tactic.
I would like to say that its because I am a knight of the air and like to do battle with dignity but such is not the case. It is because it is just too difficult.
WW2 Aircraft have such low tolerance to speed and G-Force that with combat you only have one chance to pull off a succesful attack.
Now the ratio changes with the aircraft your flying, the P-51 seems to be the worst choice and yet it is used by so many for this purpose. It is an unstable firing platform and compresses easily. And if that werent enough the 50's do little damage unless a decisive burst finds its mark.
The Typhoon and Tempest are the best at this role, the Hispano cannons have brilliant ballistics and do tonnes of damage with just one hit and both aircraft have high tolerence to speed and G.
So with all this in mind, why do so many follow this tactic, well my response would be that they do not know the performance of their aircraft and the little tricks assocsiated with it to fight in a turn or E battle.
So it seems that the most difficult tactic is by far the easiest.
Any thoughts?
i've always sucked at BnZ'ing.
when it comes down to it, you have time to aim on a bnz pass......and when i've got time to actually aim, i generally couldn't hit water if i fell out of a boat.
i just like to get in and fight.,,,,,,win, lose, don't care,,,,,,,just like fighting.
the above, is of course when i can get in there........
-
I've always found the Ki-61 to be excellent at high speeds.
-
I've always found the Ki-61 to be excellent at high speeds.
I agree it is one of the best at diving and reaching crazy speed, will start to compress around 400 but can be manuevered to stop compression rather easily.
BTW. I don't ever recall compressing in a pony. 262, 38 absolutely . Yes, I did compress 262,lol.
<S> Oz
-
that hoover will get away from you pretty quick if you are not careful ...
Yes, I did compress 262,lol.
-
I agree it is one of the best at diving and reaching crazy speed, will start to compress around 400 but can be manuevered to stop compression rather easily.
BTW. I don't ever recall compressing in a pony. 262, 38 absolutely . Yes, I did compress 262,lol.
<S> Oz
:rofl i pretty much lawn dart every 262 i take up :cry
-
Bnz for a simple manner of explanation. Bounce from on high take a shot climb above if they dont follow up to stall and die bounce again if you ever let the opponent beyond 2.5k out your doing it badly! 109's spits and jazz only need a little room to get back the e and win! DONT LET THEM BREATH! STAMP ON THEIR HEAD TILL THEY PUSH DAISIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
That's "you're". It's short for "you" and "are" combined. Your is possessive which begs the question, "Your Gay what?"
right palef what i meant was...
(http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff186/adynla07/ur_gay1.jpg)
-
right palef what i meant was...
(http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff186/adynla07/ur_gay1.jpg)
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
-
I agree it is one of the best at diving and reaching crazy speed, will start to compress around 400 but can be manuevered to stop compression rather easily.
BTW. I don't ever recall compressing in a pony. 262, 38 absolutely . Yes, I did compress 262,lol.
<S> Oz
I can dive in a KI84 that fast and pull out, KI61 can go past 400 easily if I remember right.
KI61 isnt great for BNZ really just because its under powered and cant climb back out very well, but with the nose mounted cannons its good for acouple kills pretty quick when you got the E advantage.
-
The Complete BnZ Manual
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IALJXP8LaS4
-
The Complete BnZ Manual
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IALJXP8LaS4
LOL! Seen that bit many times and yep, tought about Aces High did cross my mind! :D
"The Complete BnZ Manual"...oh so true!
-
The Complete BnZ Manual
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IALJXP8LaS4
:rofl :rofl :rofl
-
The Complete BnZ Manual
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IALJXP8LaS4
that is funny, that monkey could really move. He could out turn a zeke easy :aok
-
The Complete BnZ Manual
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IALJXP8LaS4
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
-
:rofl :rofl Funny stuff Stupid sound effects and music :rofl
<S> Oz
-
Not vary bright there, bagrat.
Was it the misspelling and incorrect usage that gave it away?
Yeah, but I laughed. The misuse of "your" in place of the correct version (you're) cemented it in my mind as a classic. I also like the incongruity of it. Plawranc makes some honest, if flawed, observations and asks for honest feedback - and gets slammed as queer for approximately no reason. It's kind of like:
Person A: So, tell me, Sir, what you think of trade relations between Canada and the US?
Person B: I think YOU'RE A SCREAMING QUEEN!
I think the bagrat mistook query for "queer".
As in, Bagrat Sez: "Ever who makes the query, your( sic) QUEER! duhuhuhuhuh!"
The mental effort he put into that image is almost palpable. That's what the world needs more of today - unwitting buffoonery. I swear, if it weren't fraught with legal problems, if you could open a dinner theatre that allowed the ridicule of the players, it'd make a fortune - even if the food was crap (maybe more so, for that, given that you wouldn't mind chucking a greasy pork chop that tasted like it'd been gestating in a dirty ashtray for a couple of days).
I also note here that the bagrat references homosexuality in his signature as well. Now, I'm no shrink but, I don't think a non-alcoholic thinks about drink that often. Perhaps he protests too much. You guyz are all quee-ah! How do I get in on that? Or, perhaps Willie Nelson said it better.
Cowboys are famous for getting riled up about fairies,
But I'll tell you the reason a big strong man gets so uptight:
-
See rule #4
-
Last time I checked, 51s start creak and moan around 572mph. Even after compression starts, the 51s are easily recovered by some trim adjustment. Also, as far as the unstable gun platform, the 51s only become unstable at low speeds (namely at the stall threshold). 4 .50s in a B Pony will chew off a wing easy. Perhaps your convergence vs distance to target is off. Spend some time off line BnZing the dummy planes.
-
See rule #4
I never got to see this.. :^(
Anyway, Bag, I enjoyed your post. I was poking some fun, that's all. Surely, you realize that you trade license to screw with the world in exchange for a grant of license to the world - to screw with you in return.
But that's all it was - an innocent bit of fun. I really did think yours was hilarious. Otherwise, I wish you well - and "meant" it almost not at all.