Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: mbailey on April 10, 2010, 07:46:12 AM
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Thoughts and prayers to our Polish players, and the people of Poland
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/11/world/europe/11kaczynski.html
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See Rule #12
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:pray :salute
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:salute
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They all died :(
:salute
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:salute
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See Rule #12
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See Rule #4
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Its always a bit creepy when ya hear this kind of thing in the former warsaw pact countries...
Old habits die hard in that area of the world, and old agencies still have a long reach..
Its like you can never completely write out the suspicion, just creepy!
Maybe that is a little :noid But really, it wouldn't be the first time!
:salute RC
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:salute This really is tragic. I know that they have been talking about getting replacements for the aging aircraft, but it was overhauled just this last past Dec. Givin what has happened i won't rule out pilot error or foul play.
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See Rule #4
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Might very well have been faulty equipment. Now they'll definitely have to get new aircraft. Sad that it had to take a tragic crash to resolve the problem.
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There was a thick fog at Smolensk airport and the pilots had been told to try another airport in Minsk, but they still tried to land several times to Smolensk. The fourth attempt became fatal. It was kind of unusual behavior, since it is said that usually after two unsuccessful attempts the pilots head to alternative airfields.
The president and his group were on their way to memorial of the Katyn massacre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre), which took place in 1940 and which russians finally confessed in Gorbachev's time (in 1990), having previously accused nazis of the deed.
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Its always a bit creepy when ya hear this kind of thing in the former warsaw pact countries...
Old habits die hard in that area of the world, and old agencies still have a long reach..
Its like you can never completely write out the suspicion, just creepy!
Maybe that is a little :noid But really, it wouldn't be the first time!
What is even more creepy is the Wikipedia page that went up within hours of the crash... complete with names and photographs of those onboard. :eek:
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I think that the pilot might have come under pressure from the staff to land or they would have missed the ceremony. I would think ILS would work,some say that it didn't have it which i find very,very hard to believe givin that its a presidential aircraft.Investigation will tell. This was said by the Turkish president on the matter , "We hope that was an accident. I want to express my condolences in the name of myself and in the name of the Turkish nation" ..
I just found this http://www.airliners.net/photo/Poland---Air/Tupolev-Tu-154M/1475239/L/
it had updated weather radar n other avionics.
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Thoughts and prayers to all the Peoples of Poland, and the many friends, colleagues, and families of those who perished in the crash. :pray :salute
ROX
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Bóg z nimi in. :pray
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:(
:salute
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There was a thick fog at Smolensk airport and the pilots had been told to try another airport in Minsk, but they still tried to land several times to Smolensk. The fourth attempt became fatal. It was kind of unusual behavior, since it is said that usually after two unsuccessful attempts the pilots head to alternative airfields.
Yes, I heard that aswell. Kinda like someone gave an executive decision. Wow 97 dead, including the President of Poland. Enroute to WW2 ceremony,Erie! :pray Best wishes for the families.
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Cholera jasna! Pierw polski papiesz ginje i teras nasz president? Ktury glupek pilotowal tego samolota?
Oops, got a little excited and started speaking Polish, dang! Wow, he really got it huh? The poor soul. :(
If there's something in that whole afterlife buisness, I wonder where he is.
-Penguin
Kto kiedykolwiek został pilotowania tej płaszczyźnie była zdecydowanie kości głowy.
:salute
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Kto kiedykolwiek został pilotowania tej płaszczyźnie była zdecydowanie kości głowy.
:salute
Dunno what you use for translation, but don't use it again.
Cholera jasna! Pierw polski papiesz ginje i teras nasz president? Ktury glupek pilotowal tego samolota?
Oops, got a little excited and started speaking Polish, dang! Wow, he really got it huh? The poor soul. :(
If there's something in that whole afterlife buisness, I wonder where he is.
-Penguin
Your Polish is embarrassing, much worse then my English. So shut up please.
<S>
To Crew and passengers, RIP
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:pray :salute
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/polish-president-95-others-killed-in-russian-plane-crash/article1530087/
Back in 2008 [...]
Air traffic control told the pilot of Mr. Kaczynski’s plane to turn back because it was too dangerous to land in Tbilisi, but the President — who also is commander-in-chief under Polish law — ordered the pilot to land anyway.
...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1816099.stm
How safe is the Tu-154?
[...]
Up until July 2001, only two Tu-154 accidents had involved technical failure.
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Dunno what you use for translation, but don't use it again.
Your Polish is embarrassing, much worse then my English. So shut up please.
<S>
To Crew and passengers, RIP
Ouch, that wasn't too kind. Who flings insults at memorial?
-Penguin
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Dunno what you use for translation, but don't use it again.
Your Polish is embarrassing, much worse then my English. So shut up please.
<S>
To Crew and passengers, RIP
Google. :neener:
Didn't mean to insult.
But yet again :salute
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Bóg z nimi in
:pray
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RIP :( :salute
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Not only was the President killed, but many top ranking officials within the Polish govt. as well. Scary stuff.
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Not only was the President killed, but many top ranking officials within the Polish govt. as well. Scary stuff.
Makes you wonder as it happened in Russia. Hmm...
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Makes you wonder as it happened in Russia. Hmm...
I have to admit, I though of this also. Reminded me of the death of General Sikorski during WWII. But putting all the conspiracy theories aside, I think this terrible incident is due to bad weather and possibly mechanical failure.
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My thoughts and prayers go to those in the plane crash, and to the morning polish.
Why were so many top government officials traveling in the same plane?
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Its always a bit creepy when ya hear this kind of thing in the former warsaw pact countries...
Old habits die hard in that area of the world, and old agencies still have a long reach..
Its like you can never completely write out the suspicion, just creepy!
Maybe that is a little :noid But really, it wouldn't be the first time!
:salute RC
(http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/zz138/dcwdavid/putin3.jpg?t=1271092642)
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My thoughts and prayers go to those in the plane crash, and to the morning polish.
Why were so many top government officials traveling in the same plane?
They where invited by president Kaczynski to accompany him.
All of those people, including top military have their second in command already replacing them. Rules about noon traveling together where not broken.
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There was a thick fog at Smolensk airport and the pilots had been told to try another airport in Minsk, but they still tried to land several times to Smolensk. The fourth attempt became fatal. It was kind of unusual behavior, since it is said that usually after two unsuccessful attempts the pilots head to alternative airfields.
I think that the pilot might have come under pressure from the staff to land or they would have missed the ceremony. I would think ILS would work,some say that it didn't have it which i find very,very hard to believe givin that its a presidential aircraft.Investigation will tell.
Was the weather fog all the way to the ground (no ceiling?) What was the visibility? What type of approach was available at the airport? How much fuel reserve? Time of day and forecast? Distance to alternate?
I am assuming that the presidential aircraft had adequate avionics. That is only half of the equation. What was the airfield like?
In theory, the pilot in command could (and obviously should) have overridden the President on decisions regarding flight safety. He may have been relieved upon landing, but all would still be alive. With the information available, it seems to be a case of forcing a landing below minimum visibility.
I have flown an aircraft down to minimums four times in 7 years (2000 flight hours.) Twice we landed. Twice we diverted. I never tried a second approach on the two diverts. We did a few turns in holding one time to talk it over, but we ended up diverting. All were memorable.
Regardless of the details, condolences to the surviving families and the people of Poland.
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"I think that the pilot might have come under pressure from the staff to land or they would have missed the ceremony."
BBC News announced today that this was almost certainly the case. It certainly wouldn't have been any conspiracy on Russia's part, could you imagine anything more stupid than to interfere with an aircraft carrying Polish officials invited by the Russian government to commemorate the murdered Polish officers buried at Katyn?
Once more, Poland suffers.
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Was the weather fog all the way to the ground (no ceiling?) What was the visibility? What type of approach was available at the airport? How much fuel reserve? Time of day and forecast? Distance to alternate?
I am assuming that the presidential aircraft had adequate avionics. That is only half of the equation. What was the airfield like?
In theory, the pilot in command could (and obviously should) have overridden the President on decisions regarding flight safety. He may have been relieved upon landing, but all would still be alive. With the information available, it seems to be a case of forcing a landing below minimum visibility.
I have flown an aircraft down to minimums four times in 7 years (2000 flight hours.) Twice we landed. Twice we diverted. I never tried a second approach on the two diverts. We did a few turns in holding one time to talk it over, but we ended up diverting. All were memorable.
Regardless of the details, condolences to the surviving families and the people of Poland.
I guess they should of had you in the left seat for that flight.
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Ouch, that wasn't too kind. Who flings insults at memorial?
-Penguin
Why don't you make a respectful comment to the dead instead of being a silly kindergartner flinging poo on the playground for once?
Thanks.
Condolences to their families and to the Polish. :frown:
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Just flat out tragic. :pray :angel:
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I guess they should of had you in the left seat for that flight.
No disrepect intended to the deceased, their families or the Polish people.
I was just looking at the technical questions of this accident. Weather and decision making appear to be contributing factors.
[Edit: I am retracting my knee jerk reaction out of respect for the passing of so many people.]
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ppl on the ground waiting for the plane to land said they heard 2 explosions.Some others reported seeing the left wing dip in a wingover right before it hit some trees.There could have been engine failure on final, but we wont know anything until the report is released. I keep hearing that no ILS system was available at that field which givin it size is unacceptable.
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:salute
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A lot of good people died. Pointlessly. All individual stories. Just one I read today of a woman working as the presidential bodyguard. Her remains had to be identified by her husband by the bracelet she wore with his name imprinted on it.
Lets remember this is first and foremost a tragedy of relatives and loved ones who are left to pick up the pieces. The nation will recover quickly.
:salute
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Condolences to the people who lost their loved ones :pray :salute
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Lets remember this is first and foremost a tragedy of relatives and loved ones who are left to pick up the pieces. The nation will recover quickly.
They always do. :salute