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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: mbailey on April 10, 2010, 07:46:12 AM

Title: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: mbailey on April 10, 2010, 07:46:12 AM
Thoughts and prayers to our Polish players, and the people of Poland


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/11/world/europe/11kaczynski.html
Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: Penguin on April 10, 2010, 08:05:24 AM
See Rule #12
Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: JunkyII on April 10, 2010, 08:06:48 AM
 :pray :salute
Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: Spikes on April 10, 2010, 08:13:21 AM
:salute
Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: Kazan_HB on April 10, 2010, 08:26:31 AM
They all died :(
 :salute
Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: Husky01 on April 10, 2010, 08:55:46 AM
 :salute
Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: Infidelz on April 10, 2010, 09:00:09 AM
See Rule #12
Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: Penguin on April 10, 2010, 09:07:28 AM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: RipChord929 on April 10, 2010, 09:28:54 AM
Its always a bit creepy when ya hear this kind of thing in the former warsaw pact countries...
Old habits die hard in that area of the world, and old agencies still have a long reach..
Its like you can never completely write out the suspicion, just creepy!

Maybe that is a little :noid  But really, it wouldn't be the first time!

 :salute RC
Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: skopro on April 10, 2010, 09:44:14 AM
 :salute This really is tragic. I know that they have been talking about getting replacements for the aging aircraft, but it was overhauled just this last past Dec. Givin what has happened i won't rule out pilot error or foul play.
Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: Penguin on April 10, 2010, 09:47:21 AM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: skopro on April 10, 2010, 09:58:08 AM
Might very well have been faulty equipment. Now they'll definitely have to get new aircraft. Sad that it had to take a tragic crash to resolve the problem.
Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: BlauK on April 10, 2010, 10:45:05 AM
There was a thick fog at Smolensk airport and the pilots had been told to try another airport in Minsk, but they still tried to land several times to Smolensk. The fourth attempt became fatal. It was kind of unusual behavior, since it is said that usually after two unsuccessful attempts the pilots head to alternative airfields.

The president and his group were on their way to memorial  of the Katyn massacre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre), which took place in 1940 and which russians finally confessed in Gorbachev's time (in 1990), having previously accused nazis of the deed.
Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: Chalenge on April 10, 2010, 11:04:30 AM
Its always a bit creepy when ya hear this kind of thing in the former warsaw pact countries...
Old habits die hard in that area of the world, and old agencies still have a long reach..
Its like you can never completely write out the suspicion, just creepy!

Maybe that is a little :noid  But really, it wouldn't be the first time!

What is even more creepy is the Wikipedia page that went up within hours of the crash... complete with names and photographs of those onboard.  :eek:
Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: skopro on April 10, 2010, 11:07:46 AM
I think that the pilot might have come under pressure from the staff to land or they would have missed the ceremony. I would think ILS would work,some say that it didn't have it which i find very,very hard to believe givin that its a presidential aircraft.Investigation will tell. This was said by the Turkish president on the matter , "We hope that was an accident. I want to express my condolences in the name of myself and in the name of the Turkish nation" ..  


I just found this http://www.airliners.net/photo/Poland---Air/Tupolev-Tu-154M/1475239/L/

it had updated weather radar n other avionics.
Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: ROX on April 10, 2010, 01:19:58 PM
Thoughts and prayers to all the Peoples of Poland, and the many friends, colleagues, and families of those who perished in the crash. :pray  :salute



ROX
Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: Obie303 on April 10, 2010, 03:09:56 PM
Bóg z nimi in.   :pray
Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: soda72 on April 10, 2010, 03:10:06 PM
 :(

 :salute
Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: crazyivan on April 10, 2010, 04:58:37 PM
There was a thick fog at Smolensk airport and the pilots had been told to try another airport in Minsk, but they still tried to land several times to Smolensk. The fourth attempt became fatal. It was kind of unusual behavior, since it is said that usually after two unsuccessful attempts the pilots head to alternative airfields.

Yes, I heard that aswell. Kinda like someone gave an executive decision. Wow 97 dead, including the President of Poland. Enroute to WW2 ceremony,Erie!   :pray Best wishes for the families.
Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: FYB on April 10, 2010, 06:45:19 PM
Cholera jasna!  Pierw polski papiesz ginje i teras nasz president?  Ktury glupek pilotowal tego samolota?

Oops, got a little excited and started speaking Polish, dang!  Wow, he really got it huh?  The poor soul.  :(
If there's something in that whole afterlife buisness, I wonder where he is.

-Penguin 
Kto kiedykolwiek został pilotowania tej płaszczyźnie była zdecydowanie kości głowy.
 :salute
Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: ramzey on April 10, 2010, 09:41:40 PM
Kto kiedykolwiek został pilotowania tej płaszczyźnie była zdecydowanie kości głowy.
 :salute


Dunno what you use for translation, but don't use it again.

Cholera jasna!  Pierw polski papiesz ginje i teras nasz president?  Ktury glupek pilotowal tego samolota?

Oops, got a little excited and started speaking Polish, dang!  Wow, he really got it huh?  The poor soul.  :(
If there's something in that whole afterlife buisness, I wonder where he is.

-Penguin  

Your Polish is embarrassing, much worse then my English. So shut up please.


<S>
To Crew and passengers, RIP
Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: Phantomz on April 10, 2010, 09:53:44 PM
 :pray :salute
Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: Sombra on April 10, 2010, 09:56:03 PM
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/polish-president-95-others-killed-in-russian-plane-crash/article1530087/

Quote
Back in 2008 [...]

Air traffic control told the pilot of Mr. Kaczynski’s plane to turn back because it was too dangerous to land in Tbilisi, but the President — who also is commander-in-chief under Polish law — ordered the pilot to land anyway.

...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1816099.stm

Quote
How safe is the Tu-154?

[...]

Up until July 2001, only two Tu-154 accidents had involved technical failure.


Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: Penguin on April 11, 2010, 12:33:26 PM
Dunno what you use for translation, but don't use it again.

Your Polish is embarrassing, much worse then my English. So shut up please.


<S>
To Crew and passengers, RIP

Ouch, that wasn't too kind.  Who flings insults at memorial?

-Penguin
Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: FYB on April 11, 2010, 01:07:35 PM
Dunno what you use for translation, but don't use it again.

Your Polish is embarrassing, much worse then my English. So shut up please.


<S>
To Crew and passengers, RIP
Google.  :neener:

Didn't mean to insult.

But yet again  :salute
Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: Masherbrum on April 11, 2010, 01:21:09 PM
Bóg z nimi in

 :pray
Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: Maverick on April 11, 2010, 01:40:08 PM
RIP  :( :salute
Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: USRanger on April 11, 2010, 05:43:09 PM
Not only was the President killed, but many top ranking officials within the Polish govt. as well.  Scary stuff.
Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: curry1 on April 11, 2010, 06:17:04 PM
Not only was the President killed, but many top ranking officials within the Polish govt. as well.  Scary stuff.

Makes you wonder as it happened in Russia. Hmm...
Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: Obie303 on April 12, 2010, 01:10:51 AM
Makes you wonder as it happened in Russia. Hmm...

I have to admit, I though of this also.  Reminded me of the death of General Sikorski during WWII.  But putting all the conspiracy theories aside, I think this terrible incident is due to bad weather and possibly mechanical failure. 
Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: Kermit de frog on April 12, 2010, 01:30:42 AM
My thoughts and prayers go to those in the plane crash, and to the morning polish.


Why were so many top government officials traveling in the same plane?
Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: Tupac on April 12, 2010, 12:18:02 PM
Its always a bit creepy when ya hear this kind of thing in the former warsaw pact countries...
Old habits die hard in that area of the world, and old agencies still have a long reach..
Its like you can never completely write out the suspicion, just creepy!

Maybe that is a little :noid  But really, it wouldn't be the first time!

 :salute RC

(http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/zz138/dcwdavid/putin3.jpg?t=1271092642)
Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: ramzey on April 12, 2010, 12:47:00 PM
My thoughts and prayers go to those in the plane crash, and to the morning polish.


Why were so many top government officials traveling in the same plane?

They where invited by president Kaczynski to accompany him.
All of those people, including top military have their second in command already replacing them. Rules about noon traveling together where not broken.
Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: RufusLeaking on April 12, 2010, 01:10:13 PM
There was a thick fog at Smolensk airport and the pilots had been told to try another airport in Minsk, but they still tried to land several times to Smolensk. The fourth attempt became fatal. It was kind of unusual behavior, since it is said that usually after two unsuccessful attempts the pilots head to alternative airfields.

I think that the pilot might have come under pressure from the staff to land or they would have missed the ceremony. I would think ILS would work,some say that it didn't have it which i find very,very hard to believe givin that its a presidential aircraft.Investigation will tell.
Was the weather fog all the way to the ground (no ceiling?)  What was the visibility?  What type of approach was available at the airport?  How much fuel reserve?  Time of day and forecast?  Distance to alternate?

I am assuming that the presidential aircraft had adequate avionics.  That is only half of the equation.  What was the airfield like?

In theory, the pilot in command could (and obviously should) have overridden the President on decisions regarding flight safety.  He may have been relieved upon landing, but all would still be alive.  With the information available, it seems to be a case of forcing a landing below minimum visibility.

I have flown an aircraft down to minimums four times in 7 years (2000 flight hours.)  Twice we landed.  Twice we diverted.  I never tried a second approach on the two diverts.  We did a few turns in holding one time to talk it over, but we ended up diverting.  All were memorable.

Regardless of the details, condolences to the surviving families and the people of Poland.
Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: Simba on April 12, 2010, 01:48:05 PM
"I think that the pilot might have come under pressure from the staff to land or they would have missed the ceremony."

BBC News announced today that this was almost certainly the case. It certainly wouldn't have been any conspiracy on Russia's part, could you imagine anything more stupid than to interfere with an aircraft carrying Polish officials invited by the Russian government to commemorate the murdered Polish officers buried at Katyn?

Once more, Poland suffers.



Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: Dinan on April 12, 2010, 02:30:18 PM
Was the weather fog all the way to the ground (no ceiling?)  What was the visibility?  What type of approach was available at the airport?  How much fuel reserve?  Time of day and forecast?  Distance to alternate?

I am assuming that the presidential aircraft had adequate avionics.  That is only half of the equation.  What was the airfield like?

In theory, the pilot in command could (and obviously should) have overridden the President on decisions regarding flight safety.  He may have been relieved upon landing, but all would still be alive.  With the information available, it seems to be a case of forcing a landing below minimum visibility.

I have flown an aircraft down to minimums four times in 7 years (2000 flight hours.)  Twice we landed.  Twice we diverted.  I never tried a second approach on the two diverts.  We did a few turns in holding one time to talk it over, but we ended up diverting.  All were memorable.

Regardless of the details, condolences to the surviving families and the people of Poland.

I guess they should of had you in the left seat for that flight.

Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: EskimoJoe on April 12, 2010, 11:26:13 PM
Ouch, that wasn't too kind.  Who flings insults at memorial?

-Penguin

Why don't you make a respectful comment to the dead instead of being a silly kindergartner flinging poo on the playground for once?
Thanks.


Condolences to their families and to the Polish.  :frown:
Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: Sonicblu on April 12, 2010, 11:52:14 PM
Just flat out tragic. :pray :angel:

Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: RufusLeaking on April 13, 2010, 08:15:02 AM
I guess they should of had you in the left seat for that flight.


No disrepect intended to the deceased, their families or the Polish people.

I was just looking at the technical questions of this accident.  Weather and decision making appear to be contributing factors. 

[Edit: I am retracting my knee jerk reaction out of respect for the passing of so many people.]
Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: skopro on April 13, 2010, 01:18:00 PM
ppl on the ground waiting for the plane to land said they heard 2 explosions.Some others reported seeing the left wing dip in a wingover right before it hit some trees.There could have been engine failure on final, but we wont know anything until the report is released. I keep hearing that no ILS system was available at that field which givin it size  is unacceptable.
Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: Curlew on April 13, 2010, 01:20:40 PM
 :salute
Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: saantana on April 15, 2010, 11:07:05 PM
A lot of good people died. Pointlessly. All individual stories. Just one I read today of a woman working as the presidential bodyguard. Her remains had to be identified by her husband by the bracelet she wore with his name imprinted on it.

Lets remember this is first and foremost a tragedy of relatives and loved ones who are left to pick up the pieces. The nation will recover quickly.

 :salute
Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: greens on April 15, 2010, 11:57:21 PM
Condolences to the people who lost their loved ones  :pray  :salute
Title: Re: Polish President killed in plane crash
Post by: Obie303 on April 16, 2010, 08:01:09 AM
Quote
Lets remember this is first and foremost a tragedy of relatives and loved ones who are left to pick up the pieces. The nation will recover quickly.

They always do. :salute