Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Scenario General => Topic started by: Brooke on April 10, 2010, 10:05:59 PM
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OK, folks.
Time for a patch design for The Final Battle.
Anyone have one to post?
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OK, folks.
Time for a patch design for The Final Battle.
Anyone have one to post?
What elements are you looking for in it? I haven't seen past scenario patches so I don't really have a standard, but I'm a passable artist, and if I know more or less what you're looking for I could sketch something up and get it scanned.
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Here are examples of past patch designs for past scenarios:
http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/patches/patchDesigns.html
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maybe something like 2 planes dogfighting over the silouhette of Norway, or the iron cross and a black, red, and white color scheme
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Hey hey how about a 234 dogfighting :)
Looking at past patches, maybe a 234/lanc going head to head, then a 262 and a Tempest going head to head next to it? Or a 152 and a Tempest.
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what is the software you guys use to design the patches?
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maybe something like 2 planes dogfighting over the silhouettes of Norway, or the iron cross and a black, red, and white color scheme
It's often the case that small shapes like planes are very hard to reproduce on patches. Look at Operation Husky: those were very difficult to get right, so in general unless it's VERY distinctive, don't go with plane silhouettes.
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It's often the case that small shapes like planes are very hard to reproduce on patches. Look at Operation Husky: those were very difficult to get right, so in general unless it's VERY distinctive, don't go with plane silhouettes.
yeah good point....
maybe it should be the image of a british CV goin down, as thats basically all that happened durring this fight :devil
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Silhouettes are OK if the shape is relatively large (like in the Battle of Britain or Der Grosse Schlag patches). As Krusty says, it is difficult when they are smaller, like on the Husky patch.
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Yes, sorry if I wasn't clear. He mentioned 2 planes dogfighting so my mind was picturing small planes.
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Well, Arado 234 silhouette over Norway map outline could work well. It would highlight the era and place of the scenario.
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Well, Arado 234 silhouette over Norway map outline could work well. It would highlight the era and place of the scenario.
yeah i like that idea. and off to the side, we could have the iron cross and the RAF symbol clashing kind of like it does in Red Storm/Krupp Steel
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Well, Arado 234 silhouette over Norway map outline could work well. It would highlight the era and place of the scenario.
Have is my new best friend. :)
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Have is my new best friend. :)
You have a new best friend? Who would that be? :)
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what is the software you guys use to design the patches?
^^^^ ?
:headscratch:
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I would guess gimp and photoshop would be the two most popular choices to design the patches with.
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I would guess gimp and photoshop would be the two most popular choices to design the patches with.
some others would be:
- Paint.NET
- NeoPaint 4
- TwistedBrush Pro Studio
- Xara Xtreme Pro 5
- Gimp 2
I personally like Twisted Brush, you Plane Skinners should check it out.........
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I would suggest that perhaps the 2 side roundels split half-and-half is getting a bit boring.
[EDIT: Not that I'm picking on anyone, just in response to the "clashing roundels" comment above]
This is just from an aesthetic point of view, but....
Looking at the previous patches, some of the best don't really just jam both sides onto the patch an call it done. Look at Stalin's Fourth, perhaps the most-thought-out patch to date, the most planned, rife with multiple layers of symbolism. Look at Operation Downfall, perhaps the shortest scenario ever. That image alone tells you all you need to know about the spirit and feel of the event, and to top if off is one of the most aesthetically pleasing of all the patches to date.
Then my personal all-time favorite. Look at Rangoon. You don't have to capture every last plane, the entire lineup, all the units involved. You can sometimes just grab the heart and guts of something and stick it on a patch. I LOVE this patch. It is THE BEST (in my opinion) by a long shot. I once made a comparison to others and said "look at Rangoon, it doesn't have to have both side's insignia on it" and somebody replied: "But it does, it's set on a red japanese meatball" (which only made me love it even more!)
So aesthetically speaking, you don't have to just lump the planes that participated, national symbols, onto the patch background. Think outside the box. What do you want to symbolize for the entire event? Doesn't have to be overly complex, doesn't have to be DaVinci's greatest work. Just think "if I had to sum this entire scenario up how would I best show that in a single image" and try to put that on a patch.
I think the best patches turn out because of that kind of approach. :aok
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well, if we want to base it off of rangoon, lets do a 262 flying over the scandinavias
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You misunderstand. I don't want to copy their layout. I want to copy the thought process that went into them! :aok
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Gentlemen,
Here is my submission for The Final Battle Patch.
(http://www.marineairgroup7.com/TFBPatch2.jpg)
Sorry about the distortion...
Thanks for the look.
:salute
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Norway is known for its fjords.
Ask the allies, they should know all about the terrain of Norway. It's beautiful!
Perhaps we could put that terrain feature on the patch.
Redtail, something about the additional text describing the lands seems abit too much. <---just an opinion.
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I would suggest that perhaps the 2 side roundels split half-and-half is getting a bit boring.
Then my personal all-time favorite. Look at Rangoon. You don't have to capture every last plane, the entire lineup, all the units involved. You can sometimes just grab the heart and guts of something and stick it on a patch. I LOVE this patch. It is THE BEST (in my opinion) by a long shot. I once made a comparison to others and said "look at Rangoon, it doesn't have to have both side's insignia on it" and somebody replied: "But it does, it's set on a red japanese meatball" (which only made me love it even more!)
I Agree 100%
Rangoon is The Best. None of the others come even close to that one.
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Definitely Norway in the background.
perdweeb
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Big kudos for thinking outside the box (by, ironically, making it a box-shape!), but the overall composition/colors is kind of harsh on my eyes.
Just a general feedback suggestion: It seems cluttered, what with letters stuck in every empty spot possible.
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Gentlemen,
Thanks for your comments and considerations. I have taken to heart your comments and modified the design a bit. Again, thanks for your consideration.
(http://www.marineairgroup7.com/TFBPatch3.jpg)
:salute
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When thinking of sizes for text and other features (various graphics), keep in mind that the patch itself will be 3" wide and lower resolution than a graphic can be when it is scaled to 3" wide (as stitching doesn't have 100 dpi resolution or anything like that).
What can help decide if a feature will hold up to a 3" patch is to scale your image to 150x150 (or 200x200 or so) pixels, save it, then scale it up some to be 3" wide, and see what it looks like.
Is it still decently recognizable? Can you still read the text OK? Do any things look like blobs that you don't want to look like blobs? Etc.
I'm not sure that they can pull off color grading well. We could have them tell us once the other design elements are finalized.
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with what Brooke posted, your 2nd patch idea ( minus the gradient color ) looks 200% better than your 1st one swareiam :cheers:
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The sword and shield came from the Vikings theme of Norway.
(http://www.lgmfilms.net/AH/Scenario/FinalBattle/TFB%20Patch%20Idea%201_v1%20copy.png)
Image above uses:
The Norwegian Flag
German symbol right in the center (black & white colors)
RAF symbol up top (Red white and blue roundel)
A Luftwaffe Officer sword with original swastika (coincidentally it's the same version as the Norwegian swastika)
Outline of Norway
I could replace the swastika with a German Luftwaffe Eagle head which they also used on their swords.
If sword idea isn't possible, I will remove it and replace it with an Luftwaffe eagle to cover the top part.
You RAF pilots are lucky I didn't have the RAF roundel at the bottom being pierced by the sword. :neener:
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with what Brooke posted, your 2nd patch idea ( minus the gradient color ) looks 200% better than your 1st one swareiam :cheers:
TC,
Thanks for the comments. So, minus the color gradient text, are there any other graphical changes you'd like to the see?
Brooke,
Thanks for the comments as well. I'll decrease the size to 3" x 3" and see what happens.
:salute
Redtail7
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The sword and shield came from the Vikings theme of Norway.
(http://www.lgmfilms.net/AH/Scenario/FinalBattle/TFB%20Patch%20Idea%201_v1%20copy.png)
Image above uses:
The Norwegian Flag
German symbol right in the center (black & white colors)
RAF symbol up top (Red white and blue roundel)
A Luftwaffe Officer sword with original swastika (coincidentally it's the same version as the Norwegian swastika)
Outline of Norway
I could replace the swastika with a German Luftwaffe Eagle head which they also used on their swords.
If sword idea isn't possible, I will remove it and replace it with an Luftwaffe eagle to cover the top part.
You RAF pilots are lucky I didn't have the RAF roundel at the bottom being pierced by the sword. :neener:
very nice patch design Herr Kermit :aok
but i like the idea of an eagle over the shield rather than a sword
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The sword and shield came from the Vikings theme of Norway.
(http://www.lgmfilms.net/AH/Scenario/FinalBattle/TFB%20Patch%20Idea%201_v1%20copy.png)
Image above uses:
The Norwegian Flag
German symbol right in the center (black & white colors)
RAF symbol up top (Red white and blue roundel)
A Luftwaffe Officer sword with original swastika (coincidentally it's the same version as the Norwegian swastika)
Outline of Norway
I will remove it and replace it with an Luftwaffe eagle to cover the top part.
this is also very nice, Kermit....... but if the embroidery company tryed for this, would it not make the patch awfully small if the entire sword is stitched in?
I like both yours and swareiam's, just curious as to the actual size if the swoard is to be included on yours.......
<S> good work fellas
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(http://www.lgmfilms.net/AH/Scenario/FinalBattle/TFB%20Patch%20Idea%201_v2%20enlarged.png)
Here it is without the Luftwaffe Officer Sword.
I've replaced it with the Luftwaffe Eagle.
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Here is version 3
(http://www.lgmfilms.net/AH/Scenario/FinalBattle/TFB%20Patch%20Idea%201_v3%20copy%20enlarged.png)
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Very nice Kermit! How about a version without the eagle or the sword?
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(http://www.lgmfilms.net/AH/Scenario/FinalBattle/TFB%20Patch%20Idea%201_v4%20enlarged.png)
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i like the one with the eagle and the "Norway" banner along the bottom :aok
do you think you could do a version with the eagle perched on top of the sheild?
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I vote Eagle/norway banner.
Looking good Frog.
perdweeb
P.S. I'll donate this time :angel:
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Could you do something with the sword one? I really like that idea, but with some tweaking. I'm not at my own PC so only have access to MS paint.
I'm thinking of making the sword smaller so the blade stops where the sheild does, and extending the top around the hilt (which I reduced in size). Maybe make the blade narrower, or fudge the flag's cross thickness so that it's on top of the cross rather than blotting it out entirely.
It's hard to describe, but I was going for one of those "ribbon/tape" style upper borders, and was thinking of having "THE FINAL BATTLE" on that instead of across the flag's cross. You need to have a background behind the sword hilt. Maybe some element of the eagle from the other ideas you had, or maybe something with the German iron cross?
Quick and dirty MS paint:
(http://www.nakatomitower.com/TFB1.png)
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(http://www.lgmfilms.net/AH/Scenario/FinalBattle/TFB%20Patch%20Idea%201_v4%20enlarged.png)
this one without the eagle or sword seems to be more of a "patch" my 0.01673
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this one without the eagle or sword seems to be more of a "patch" my 0.01673
I'll swift the Norway outline to the right, to allow it to be cut off, instead of appearing like an island.
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this one without the eagle or sword seems to be more of a "patch" my 0.01673
Agreed, I like the patch without the eagle or sword a bit more :aok
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(http://www.lgmfilms.net/AH/Scenario/FinalBattle/TFB%20Patch%20Idea%201_v4%20enlarged.png)
(http://www.lgmfilms.net/AH/Scenario/FinalBattle/TFB%20Patch%20Idea%201_v4%20enlarged.png)
I vote for this one, very nice Kermit :aok
has a decision been made yet?
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Very nice indeed... :aok
(http://www.lgmfilms.net/AH/Scenario/FinalBattle/TFB%20Patch%20Idea%201_v4%20enlarged.png)
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That does look good. I feel like it's a bit naked on top though, but that the eagle was just too much. Perhaps another banner up there with the words "the final battle" moved up there and not obscuring the roundel and cross?? Just an idea. I like the design.
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That does look good. I feel like it's a bit naked on top though, but that the eagle was just too much. Perhaps another banner up there with the words "the final battle" moved up there and not obscuring the roundel and cross?? Just an idea. I like the design.
I'd like to see the design of this idea :aok
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Any update on TFB patch?
Brooke, ya got a little something heading your way. :)
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I'll make time to offer another version of the patch based on above comments.
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Here is one I'm working on, but am unsure as to where to put the RAF roundel. Plus, I'm unsure of which roundel to use.
(http://www.lgmfilms.net/AH/Scenario/FinalBattle/TFB%20Patch%20Idea%202_v2%20copy.png)
Symbolism used:
Battle flag of Norway
Shield and sword
German Officer sword used
Modified swastika eroded to resemble an "F"
Outline is of Norway, zoomed in abit to show fjord outlines
Norge is norwegian for Norway
I will modify this one below to include "The Final Battle" in a bannor up top as an alternative.
(http://www.lgmfilms.net/AH/Scenario/FinalBattle/TFB%20Patch%20Idea%201_v4%20enlarged.png)
All images are still works in progress.
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The "F" in Final on the top proposal reminds me to much of a swastika. Just my 2c
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Howdy, all.
Time to pick which patch design to finalize and then get into production. So, please pick your favorite from those below. Once we pick one, then I'll work with the person who made it to tweak it for any things needed for patch work, and away we'll go.
A:
(http://www.marineairgroup7.com/TFBPatch2.jpg)
B:
(http://www.marineairgroup7.com/TFBPatch3.jpg)
C:
(http://www.lgmfilms.net/AH/Scenario/FinalBattle/TFB%20Patch%20Idea%202_v2%20copy.png)
D:
(http://www.lgmfilms.net/AH/Scenario/FinalBattle/TFB%20Patch%20Idea%201_v4%20enlarged.png)
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D
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II like D when Kerm gets done with it.
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D
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D hate it when I agree with BK :rolleyes:
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D, cant really make out the "F" in C
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I'm with D myself. I still think that a banner on top would really make it though.
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C
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D
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I' like both C and D. They both could be better though, could the final patch possibly combine elements of both?
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<------- Votes for "D" :salute
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D but C if the F was more visible K
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OK, looks like D is the main choice.
Kermit, for production purposes, could you move the Norway banner up a bit and reduce the size a bit of the banner ends (the ones that represent the banner curling back behind, as it is cloth, and when you stitch it onto something, those are going to catch on anything you brush against if it is on a jacket).
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but, but, but, I wasn't done!
:furious
(http://www.lgmfilms.net/AH/Scenario/FinalBattle/TFB%20Patch%20Idea%202_v3%20copy.png)
I'll modify the bannor, plus I think a few wanted the words "the final battle" to be placed on a top, so I'll do that too.
While I like the patches presented, I really do hope there are others with finished or even unfinished ideas they could quickly post.
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Time to pick one and get going, though. Seems like D was far and away the most votes.
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D
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I am trying hard to fix D, as it has many things to add/correct.
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(http://www.lgmfilms.net/AH/Scenario/FinalBattle/TFB%20Patch%20Idea%202_v4%20copy.png)(http://www.lgmfilms.net/AH/Scenario/FinalBattle/TFB%20Patch%20Idea%201_v5%20copy.png)(http://www.lgmfilms.net/AH/Scenario/FinalBattle/TFB%20Patch%20Idea%203_v1%20copy.png)
I like all three for many reasons. The first one differs with more symbolism and larger RAF/Luftwaffe symbols along with the War Flag of Norway. The second one has the complex shape banner added to allow the word Norway to be easily seen, while the third one has the simplest shape overall.
I'm posting these for input to fix things such as font, text size, colors, resolution, or anything that needs to be correct if the community is going to want these made. I sense your urgency, so I will work as quickly as possible based on feedback.
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I like the middle one pretty well Kermit. Wouldn't change a thing personally.
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I like the middle one pretty well Kermit. Wouldn't change a thing personally.
No banner on the top then?
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Nope, I think the black bar with the lettering sets it off just right.
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I like the first and second.
In the first one, I like how Norway branches off from the right side, where you can't see the entire country's outline. I also like the symbols on the left side, as well as the battle flag slightly offset to the left. What I don't really like myself, is the sword. It's a fancy idea and all, but I don't honestly think it belongs. Not to offend you, just my opinions :)
On the second patch, I love the layout and overall look. If Norway was scooted over a bit and maybe enlarged like the first patch, or even simpler, the second patch made to look a bit more like the first, I personally think you would have yourself a perfect patch!
Though, in retrospect, I think the second patch is a beauty as is :aok
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Middle one Kermit, they are all nice, but the middle one just has an element of balance that just sets it apart.
Nice job.
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Middle one Kermit, they are all nice, but the middle one just has an element of balance that just sets it apart.
Nice job.
I agree, Nice Job frogman!
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Yep, the middle one is the best :aok
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I tried moving the outline of Norway to the side, but it does leave the left side abit empty, and I'm not sure what to then fill it with. I hope someone can post another patch idea soon. The middle one is also my favorite.
Brooke, I think I'm done with all modifications.
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OK, so it's a go with this one, correct?
(http://www.lgmfilms.net/AH/Scenario/FinalBattle/TFB%20Patch%20Idea%201_v5%20copy.png)
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OK, so it's a go with this one, correct?
(http://www.lgmfilms.net/AH/Scenario/FinalBattle/TFB%20Patch%20Idea%201_v5%20copy.png)
Yes. If that is the one that gets made, would you like a specific resolution or will that suffice?
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Good work Kermit.
:aok
That was my pick as well.
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Yes. If that is the one that gets made, would you like a specific resolution or will that suffice?
Can you post a version that is about twice the width and twice the height?
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Can you post a version that is about twice the width and twice the height?
350x350 or 400x400?
While it's no problem and I'll have it posted by Saturday, I goofed with the resolution when I first started.
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Brooke check your email,
I went ahead and enlarged Kermit's patch for him, to 431 x 400 pixels and sent it to you in png, jpg, bmp, and gif formats
don't think it hurt the resolution if only a tiny minor bit......
excellent work, Kermit
:salute
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350x350 or 400x400?
While it's no problem and I'll have it posted by Saturday, I goofed with the resolution when I first started.
400x400-or so is fine (just want extra resolution for the coastline of Norway).
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(http://www.lgmfilms.net/AH/Scenario/FinalBattle/TFB%20Patch%20Idea%201v6%20copy.png)
Late as usual... :o
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Late as usual... :o
not really, Kermit.... was just trying to help you out is all :-)
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Hey Brooke, any idea when the patch will be done? :cheers:
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Hey Brooke, any idea when the patch will be done? :cheers:
I got a sewout, but I had a tweak to it. Assuming the next sewout looks good, then we are probably about 3 weeks away from me mailing them out to you folks.
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Hey that's cool. I'm assuming we need to paypal you a few bucks then? Just let me know...
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Hey that's cool. I'm assuming we need to paypal you a few bucks then? Just let me know...
Production is supported by voluntary donations that folks make to the patch fund.
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Oh yeah? Where is that, so that a voluntary donation can be made?
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Oh yeah? Where is that, so that a voluntary donation can be made?
heya madda,
here is the website link for the AH Scenario Patch order form ( and read at top and see the donation info )
http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/patches/patches.html
hope this helps
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Looks good Kermie :banana:
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brooke, when would you like us to put in the order?
perdweeb
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I got the patches in and just this minute opened to look -- they look great!
I'll do a scan and post later tonight.
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I got the patches in and just this minute opened to look -- they look great!
I'll do a scan and post later tonight.
We want it NOW! NOW! NOW! :)
Can't wait to see em! Don't know if I can donate this time but I want to pitch in for the next scenario for sure.