Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: vafiii on April 12, 2010, 11:18:02 AM
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How 'bout allowing multiple gunners in a bomber (more than 2)? One gunner per .50 cal in a B-17 would be a lot of fun although the stench of body odor may become unbearable.
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hit the little magnifying glass next to the search box, then put "multiple gunners bombers" into the "Search For" box. :aok
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i heard in aces high one that entire squads would occupy one bomber. dont know why they changed it.
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i heard in aces high one that entire squads would occupy one bomber. dont know why they changed it.
I believe you've heard wrong. Different game, different time.
wrongway
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That was aw. We would get 6 gunners in one b17 and go fiter hunting. Was awesome. 4 engines with massive thrust would outturn any fiter at low speed.
Semp
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Nope. Need backup? Check out this scene from the great old sci-fi flick called The Last Starfighter:
Death-Blossom!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlAsSyDAWR8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlAsSyDAWR8)
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Air Warrior allowed each position to be maned as well as allowing anyone on board to jump to any open gun position. It was great fun and very realistic . There were a few crews in AW that were made up of WWII B17 vets and they were pretty good at fighting there way into a target and back home again.
The basic problem with that happening within AH is the numbers needed to fully man one B17. You can't get 11 people to join a mission most of the time.
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Air Warrior allowed each position to be maned as well as allowing anyone on board to jump to any open gun position. It was great fun and very realistic . There were a few crews in AW that were made up of WWII B17 vets and they were pretty good at fighting there way into a target and back home again.
The basic problem with that happening within AH is the numbers needed to fully man one B17. You can't get 11 people to join a mission most of the time.
I know lots of people that would join a b17 just for the fun of it. fully loaded b17's were used mostly as a gun platform, bombing was secondary. most of the time I flew them I would drop the eggs as soon as i got on the runway.
In AH there a great aversion (is that right?) about asking for gunners. lots of old timers will give their standard "gun yourself". but sure as hell give the ability to have more than 2 gunners and you will see them in the middle of the furball all the time.
semp
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but sure as hell give the ability to have more than 2 gunners and you will see them in the middle of the furball all the time.
Unlike the AW Deathstars, the AH version wouldn't be as effective because the flight modeling isn't crap like the FM was in AW. You won't have B-17s that can out turn and out stall fight a Zeke in here.
ack-ack
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HiTech has already explained the choice he had. He could code it for multiple gunners that would rarely get used or he could code it for slaved guns. He picked slaved guns rather than stick the vast majority of bomber sorties with a single gunner firing only from one position.
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HiTech has already explained the choice he had. He could code it for multiple gunners that would rarely get used or he could code it for slaved guns. He picked slaved guns rather than stick the vast majority of bomber sorties with a single gunner firing only from one position.
AW had both
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You sure about that Traveler? I don't believe you could ever man you own guns in AW.
HiTech
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AW had both
Incorrect.
You sure about that Traveler? I don't believe you could ever man you own guns in AW.
HiTech
Correct. The pilot could not man any guns at any time.
ack-ack
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Incorrect.
Correct. The pilot could not man any guns at any time.
ack-ack
Unless he knew the bug to get the single .50 firing forward from the pilots position. :noid
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You sure about that Traveler? I don't believe you could ever man you own guns in AW.
HiTech
It's been a long time and I think I remember taking up a bomber with just another guy and I could jump to a gun position. But as I said that was a long time ago.
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Pilots could never man guns in buffs. Only choice was pilot or navigator. If u upped without gunners u were ded meat as gunners could not be added in mid flight.
Semp
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Nope. Need backup? Check out this scene from the great old sci-fi flick called The Last Starfighter:
Death-Blossom!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlAsSyDAWR8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlAsSyDAWR8)
Model reference for the spixteen?
:noid
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+1 On the idea!
I in general don't fly bombers, but the idea of having multiple gunners makes it a different story.
I can see it turn into a hype just like WW1 though.
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And as soon as the tail guns are taken nobody will want to gun for you :D
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And as soon as the tail guns are taken nobody will want to gun for you :D
I didn't find that to be true in AW, was it a problem for you, were you asking for gunners and no one wanted to fly with you in AW?
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And as soon as the tail guns are taken nobody will want to gun for you :D
In AW, it was usually the waist guns that no one wanted to man since you rarely got good shots on the bandit. The first one to go was usually chin, followed by tail and then top turret.
ack-ack
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ball and upper were requested more than tail then chin, and people would rather have navigator than waist guns.
semp
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Multiple gunners would be a nice add to the game. It would be so awesome to have a gang of friends in one B-17 shooting at fiendish jerries.
:aok
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Ahh those selective memories of AW are way off base. Ask yourself 1 question. Of the bombers you shot down and were used for bombing, what % of them had at least 1 gunner? They were so rair that you would be surprised if you were attacking a bomber, and it shot back at you.They are so incorrect in only remembering the fun time they had, they forget all the problems. Traveler even thought you could gun your own, which was never the case.
Also ask yourself what % sorties in AH in a bomber have a gunner?
The real simple FACTS are , all though fully maned bombers where fun. It was very rare to have one, and made bombers used much less because there was no other option. The option of having both in AH has large trade offs in concerning how to control multiple guns, the extra data used in sending the shooting guns, the lag of changing positions in guns.
HiTech
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Ahh those selective memories of AW are way off base. Ask yourself 1 question. Of the bombers you shot down and were used for bombing, what % of them had at least 1 gunner? They were so rair that you would be surprised if you were attacking a bomber, and it shot back at you.They are so incorrect in only remembering the fun time they had, they forget all the problems. Traveler even thought you could gun your own, which was never the case.
Also ask yourself what % sorties in AH in a bomber have a gunner?
The real simple FACTS are , all though fully maned bombers where fun. It was very rare to have one, and made bombers used much less because there was no other option. The option of having both in AH has large trade offs in concerning how to control multiple guns, the extra data used in sending the shooting guns, the lag of changing positions in guns.
HiTech
All memories are selective. Upon asking myself that one question, my selective memories is that more then half the bombers that I shot down had one or more gunners. That’s how I remember it. Was that a rare event, not as I remember it.
Are the former AW players “incorrect in only remembering the fun time they had?” I have no idea. Do former AW players forget all the problems? Again I have no idea what “They” remember. However, speaking for myself with my selective memories, I don’t remember “all the problems”, I paid my money and played the game.
It worked for me. My Dad enjoyed it. As I remember most of the guys that played enjoyed it. But that’s how I remember it. Its obvious to me that the this wish and the op's request is a dead issue and will never happen.
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Ahh those selective memories of AW are way off base. Ask yourself 1 question. Of the bombers you shot down and were used for bombing, what % of them had at least 1 gunner? They were so rair that you would be surprised if you were attacking a bomber, and it shot back at you.They are so incorrect in only remembering the fun time they had, they forget all the problems. Traveler even thought you could gun your own, which was never the case.
Also ask yourself what % sorties in AH in a bomber have a gunner?
The real simple FACTS are , all though fully maned bombers where fun. It was very rare to have one, and made bombers used much less because there was no other option. The option of having both in AH has large trade offs in concerning how to control multiple guns, the extra data used in sending the shooting guns, the lag of changing positions in guns.
HiTech
Deathstars were a rare sight, well not rare like hardly ever happend but more like not very often. On the other hand, it was more common to see at least one gunner on a buff and you could always bet on the B-17 flying at 20k was ungunned. I remember the problems too, a lot of times it was rather laggy and sometimes you'd get discoed or warp because someone onboard connection was in the crapper. Regardless of the problems, it was still fun to man a Deathstar and it sucked attacking one.
ack-ack
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I was with the 327th steel rain we all upped with at least one gunner every time. Also remember playing late at note only like 15 in the game and we would up a buff with 3 or 4 gunners and just shoot the breeze. Was fun, but different times, different game.
Semp
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Ahh those selective memories of AW are way off base. Ask yourself 1 question. Of the bombers you shot down and were used for bombing, what % of them had at least 1 gunner? They were so rair that you would be surprised if you were attacking a bomber, and it shot back at you.They are so incorrect in only remembering the fun time they had, they forget all the problems. Traveler even thought you could gun your own, which was never the case.
Also ask yourself what % sorties in AH in a bomber have a gunner?
The real simple FACTS are , all though fully maned bombers where fun. It was very rare to have one, and made bombers used much less because there was no other option. The option of having both in AH has large trade offs in concerning how to control multiple guns, the extra data used in sending the shooting guns, the lag of changing positions in guns.
HiTech
For one: I believe the only reason many bomber sorties in AH do not have gunners is because they are not necessary unlike AW. Two: Could it be possible to allow 2 gunner positions AND the pilot to gun if necessary? This would allow slaved guns and also better armament for bomber groups AND at the same time people who are attacking the Bombers would have to rely on teamwork and tactics much more often to accomplish their goal of destroying the bomber group...
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You can't do that because currently all guns aim at one point. There's no way to decide the arbitrary question of "Which guns will point which way for which gunners" in a more-than-one-gunner situation.
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You can't do that because currently all guns aim at one point. There's no way to decide the arbitrary question of "Which guns will point which way for which gunners" in a more-than-one-gunner situation.
then simply allow the first gunner to occupy the bomber to take control of the slaved guns and every extra to take an open position and there would be one less slave gun for the original gunner
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You also run into problems with jumping around to other positions. The "primary" gunner can jump form tail to nose to dorsal, etc, meanwhile the available guns and what can and cannot be used by the other gunner keeps changing.
I think it'd be a bit of a mess. Only way around it is disable all gun slaving and only fire that one position.
Then if that is done you get the lag and other issues.
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ok well then allow the first gunner reign over the positions and any other gunners are forced into certain positions. say, first gunner is always allowed the tail top and bottom, let the 2nd gunner have the waists and nose... then if 3rd gunner in, force the 2nd gunner to the nose and the 3rd the waists. 4th gunner takes top or bottom, 5th takes the other. the entire time allowing gunner number one into free positions and using the slaved guns...
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back in the day ***FREEBIRD$***would load up a B-17 with gunners. That would be cool to be able to do today. :cheers: