FW-190A5 2XMG151
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can i ask why you are testing the light loads on the As ?
a8 in game does not give a specific variant so that one will be tough to confirm ...
and as data varies what is the source or sources you wish us to use to validate the numbers?
How did you define "stall" when you tested it out?
IIRC a stall is defined as the point where a plane cannot stay level and maintain altitude at the given speed.
As soon as a visible burble or wing-dip was identified, the speed was recorded.
Minor point. The wingtip should stall later than the root due to washout. You'll see the movement at the tip but the stall is probably occurring at the inner part of the wings.
And, just to expound a bit. Flying into the stall with the aircraft properly trimmed is difficult. So, using the auto-level feature keeps the plane perfectly trimmed for the stall. Luckily, the aircraft tested still had a conspicuous (or what I thought was conspicuous) "burble" or wing dip at the speed I listed. I went back and hand flew a few to see if it was consistent, and it appeared to be. While the entire wing may not be "stalled", IMO, tip stall that interferes with maneuvering the aircraft is a "stall".
FYI i believe that game stall behavior is directly contradicted in the flight tests, which was my original point in another thread. i.e. why does the 190 behave that way in the game, and how does that effect comparative playability.
How so? Basically what I'm describing is the wing tip stalling before the root. This makes the aircraft extremely unstable around the roll axis and usually leads to the plane wanting to flip over on its back. Are you saying that the actual flight test data states it has benign stall behavior? Again, we have to discuss exactly what "benign" meant. How far into the stall did they fly it?
My flight instructor and I never performed a fully developed power-on stall in my AA-1B because those planes have some very nasty spin habits. I've never experienced a really bad, poorly coordinated stall in that aircraft because I don't want to. Most of the stalls I performed were very gentle, right on the edge of the buffet-type stalls. Given some of the caution expressed in those reports about not pranging the captured aircraft, in order to preserve it for training, I doubt they got as aggressive with it as I did in-game.
How so? Basically what I'm describing is the wing tip stalling before the root. This makes the aircraft extremely unstable around the roll axis and usually leads to the plane wanting to flip over on its back. Are you saying that the actual flight test data states it has benign stall behavior? Again, we have to discuss exactly what "benign" meant. How far into the stall did they fly it?
My flight instructor and I never performed a fully developed power-on stall in my AA-1B because those planes have some very nasty spin habits. I've never experienced a really bad, poorly coordinated stall in that aircraft because I don't want to. Most of the stalls I performed were very gentle, right on the edge of the buffet-type stalls. Given some of the caution expressed in those reports about not pranging the captured aircraft, in order to preserve it for training, I doubt they got as aggressive with it as I did in-game.
Might sound like a silly question, when you fly a real plane, does the plane buffet on the edge of the stall? or is that a visual aid for a simulator?
The airfoil did not change. The structure was lightened but I have no information that it would have got stronger, only lighter -maybe it was just a bit overdone in earlier variants? The rear fuselage length was not changed. It was lightly modified structurally e.g. the aux tank access hatch was put in and side access hatch was larger in A8.
Well, maybe if they hadn't designed so much airfoil thickness taper into the wing design. Almost all of the planes in-game suffer from tip stall before root stall. That's why they want to roll over on their backs when they stall. Washout, IMO, is overrated, and in the case of most WWII aircraft that had it, useless.
Wouldn't the wingtip with the trimmed down elevator have a slighter higher AOA than the trimmed up elevator and stall first?
Stoney: Your numbers are in the ball park. But if you wish to use them for CL calculations you will also have to take into account Horizontal stab forces do to CG's.
HiTech
You might weight a A5 down to the same level as an A-8, but that won't necessarily mean much. Even if the level stall speeds are the same, the turning ability will be greatly affected by the CoG shift of all this added or removed weight ballast.
So while scientifically interesting, it won't mean much in comparing actually combat performance IMO.
I assume you are meaning Aileron not Elevator. If this is case the answer is no, but your thinking is correct. Since the Aileron is creating more camber in the wing, its Max AOA is going down, and hence it will stall sooner just as if it had a greater AOA.
HiTech
Assuming all the weight is being added in the wing, which would probably be close to the CG anyway, I believe the weight increase would have very little impact on turn performance, with respect to CG. My point is/was that the same wing planform, with the same airfoil, and same wing area, stall speed will be the same, at the same wing-loading. I guess I should test to see.
i.e. trim analysis?
I.E. if wing cl is 6" behind cg with a 15 ft tail.
A 10000 lb plane would require about 10333 lb lift for level flight. (10000 * .5 / 15) + 10000
HiTech
I.E. if wing cl is 6" behind cg with a 15 ft tail.
A 10000 lb plane would require about 10333 lb lift for level flight. (10000 * .5 / 15) + 10000
HiTech
Stoney, Load factor, or more accurately AOA would effect the numbers slightly do to the definitions of lift being perpendicular to Vel vector. And as you rotate the plane, the moment arms of tail and wing change in respect to the CG. I.E. (extreme example) when you are straight up, and your vel vector is parallel to the ground. You CL is now below the CG. Now drag is creating the torques and lift is not creating any. The same effects are happing at any AOA. But this is a very small effect and can be estimated by simply multiplying the additional lift with the cosine of the AOA.
HiTech
Oh I thought the pull to the left or right was the engine torque? or is the thing I mentioned above not modeled.