Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Seadog36 on April 25, 2010, 05:59:34 AM
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Give us a later model razorback jug w wing pylons and paddle blade props. Bubble tops are already overly represented. Performance should be identical to the P-47D25, just change the template and give us some new skins. There have already been some beautiful submissions eg Bonnie, Hun Hunter, Fiery Ginger, etc. :aok
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+1
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We have enough ugs already IMO.
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We have enough ugs already IMO.
I agree
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Could use an HE-111, and some more Jap/Italian planes before any more allied planes.
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We have enough ugs already IMO.
Signed the 109 & Spit
Have to say I would love to see this added. +1
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We have enough ugs already IMO.
I agree, get rid of the D 25!
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Lots of good PTO schemes for the D-23. :aok
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We have enough ugs already IMO.
As much i love flying the D-25, i do agree with ACE.
I agree, get rid of the D 25!
The D 25 fits find as it is. We just do not need to add another Jug for a while or any other U.S aircraft.
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Have to say I would love to see this added. +1
Why? There are at least a dozen other aircraft that deserve a place in the lineup more than another Jug...especially the D-23.
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I love jugs!!!!
but i am in agreement, we need other stuff now!
M-18
yak-3
Well those two and then a new jug!! lol :bolt:
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I love jugs!!!!
but i am in agreement, we need other stuff now!
M-18
yak-3
Well those two and then a new jug!! lol :bolt:
This IS a "wishlist"...and thats what this razorback Jug aficionado dreams about... I don't expect to see any changes soon, just beating the war drums! :salute I would like to see Heinkle 111s, PBYs but mostly some new terrains
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my wish would be to make more jugs available in mid war!
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my wish would be to make more jugs available in mid war!
I wonder if the P-47D-25 might fit in the mid war?
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I wonder if the P-47D-25 might fit in the mid war?
It would have to be perked. :D
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It would have to be perked. :D
I was thinking of the same.
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It would have to be perked. :D
I don't see why really, the f6f has a full ord package w hvar rockets and is powered by the same R-2800 radial engine as the jug and it is not perked. I could understand a higher ENY, although, if HTC perked it I would finally have something to spend my fighter perks on.
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It would have to be perked. :D
I was thinking of the same.
Why would it need to be perked?
ack-ack
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Why would it need to be perked?
ack-ack
Because i said so.
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I think a P-47D-22-RE or D-23-RA with malcolm hood is better.
Malcolm hood P-47
http://www.ww2incolor.com/us-air-force/p-47+5th+eme.html
http://img641.imageshack.us/i/3p47scaleaviationmodell.jpg/
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/4599/p47d23.jpg
http://img225.imageshack.us/i/p47d15.jpg/
http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/4575/german1945.jpg
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/9582/forcelanding.jpg
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/1451/yankeeclipper.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/8131/snowforcelanding.jpg
http://aeroscale.kitmaker.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=106545&page=10
http://p47.kitmaker.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=144622&page=1
B-24 bubble modification:
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/4885/p47d21.jpg
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/9018/b24mod.jpg
http://photos.kitmaker.net/data/20616/cowling3.jpg
P47D-22&D-23
The D-22-RE saw the two factories begin to use different propellers. At Farmingdale the D-22 used a Hamilton Standard Hydramatic 244E50-65 propeller, which had wider, longer propeller blades than the Curtis Electric propeller used on earlier aircraft. The new propeller improved the performance of the aircraft by making better use of the high level of power provided by the engine.
The D-23 saw Evansville also change propellers, but to the Curtis Electric C542S propeller. This was similar is size and concept to the Hamilton model used on the D-22.
http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_P-47D.html
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The 3.71 meter (12 foot 2 inch) Curtiss propeller was replaced by new and bigger propellers, the Long Island plant moving to a Hamilton Standard propeller with a diameter of 4.01 meters (13 feet 1-7/8 inches), and the Evansville plant moving to a new Curtiss propeller with a diameter of 3.96 meters (13 feet). The new propeller further boosted the climb rate, and Luftwaffe pilots now found they couldn't get away from the P-47 by climbing.
http://www.vectorsite.net/avp47.html#m5
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Many of the Fighter Groups flying the P-47 in June of '44 were still flying some of the older "razor back" models with the framed canopy. These included the ultimate "razor back", the P-47D-23-RA. This Evansville built fighter was equipped with the latest Curtiss Electric paddle blade propeller. Of all the D models, this one was the fastest and best climbing.
http://www.cradleofaviation.org/history/aircraft/p-47/7.html
P-47 propellers
http://www.hfmodeling.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=128328&page=1
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Because i said so.
I was thinking of the same.
:lol Seriously? The D-11 has an advantage to the D-25 in all categories of manuevering: climb, speed, turn, and roll is basically the same. The only thing the D-25 has is better visibility. There is no warrant for it to be perked. Even with the ord capability.
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:lol Seriously? The D-11 has an advantage to the D-25 in all categories of manuevering: climb, speed, turn, and roll is basically the same. The only thing the D-25 has is better visibility. There is no warrant for it to be perked. Even with the ord capability.
So, lets trash the D-25 and give us the D-30
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I love jugs!!!!
but i am in agreement, we need other stuff now!
M-18
yak-3
Well those two and then a new jug!! lol :bolt:
M-18!!![/size] :noid
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An extra pair of jugs would be great. But if you can get me a recliner, Slim Jim and a beer to go along with them life would be complete.
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An extra pair of jugs would be great. But if you can get me a recliner, Slim Jim and a beer to go along with them life would be complete.
I cam send you the slim jim and beer. The recliner you are on you own....oh wait, i have one that i am selling.......but that trip is to far to send.
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Great research! I love it when someone helps illuminate the underrated and under acknowledged P-47. I actually prefer the birdcage to the malcolm hood and think the P-51B should be changed back to the birdcage in MW because they were such generally a rare modification. :aok :salute
I think a P-47D-22-RE or D-23-RA with malcolm hood is better.
Malcolm hood P-47
http://www.ww2incolor.com/us-air-force/p-47+5th+eme.html
http://img641.imageshack.us/i/3p47scaleaviationmodell.jpg/
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/4599/p47d23.jpg
http://img225.imageshack.us/i/p47d15.jpg/
http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/4575/german1945.jpg
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/9582/forcelanding.jpg
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/1451/yankeeclipper.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/8131/snowforcelanding.jpg
http://aeroscale.kitmaker.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=106545&page=10
http://p47.kitmaker.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=144622&page=1
B-24 bubble modification:
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/4885/p47d21.jpg
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/9018/b24mod.jpg
http://photos.kitmaker.net/data/20616/cowling3.jpg
P47D-22&D-23
The D-22-RE saw the two factories begin to use different propellers. At Farmingdale the D-22 used a Hamilton Standard Hydramatic 244E50-65 propeller, which had wider, longer propeller blades than the Curtis Electric propeller used on earlier aircraft. The new propeller improved the performance of the aircraft by making better use of the high level of power provided by the engine.
The D-23 saw Evansville also change propellers, but to the Curtis Electric C542S propeller. This was similar is size and concept to the Hamilton model used on the D-22.
http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_P-47D.html
---------
The 3.71 meter (12 foot 2 inch) Curtiss propeller was replaced by new and bigger propellers, the Long Island plant moving to a Hamilton Standard propeller with a diameter of 4.01 meters (13 feet 1-7/8 inches), and the Evansville plant moving to a new Curtiss propeller with a diameter of 3.96 meters (13 feet). The new propeller further boosted the climb rate, and Luftwaffe pilots now found they couldn't get away from the P-47 by climbing.
http://www.vectorsite.net/avp47.html#m5
---------
Many of the Fighter Groups flying the P-47 in June of '44 were still flying some of the older "razor back" models with the framed canopy. These included the ultimate "razor back", the P-47D-23-RA. This Evansville built fighter was equipped with the latest Curtiss Electric paddle blade propeller. Of all the D models, this one was the fastest and best climbing.
http://www.cradleofaviation.org/history/aircraft/p-47/7.html
P-47 propellers
http://www.hfmodeling.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=128328&page=1
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So, lets trash the D-25 and give us the D-30
They are basically the same plane. Being a PTO Jug fanboi myself, I'd love to see a P-47D-23 ingame. But, it will be a long time coming, if ever. And, without a Malcolm hood.
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They are basically the same plane. Being a PTO Jug fanboi myself, I'd love to see a P-47D-23 ingame. But, it will be a long time coming, if ever. And, without a Malcolm hood.
Here is a question that i was thinking about. why do we have the D-11, 25 and 40 when there where a wide range of the "D" class? What about the "G" class? how do they stand up to the "D" class?
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Here is a question that i was thinking about. why do we have the D-11, 25 and 40 when there where a wide range of the "D" class? What about the "G" class? how do they stand up to the "D" class?
P47G models were only D identicals but built by Curtis iirc
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P47G models were only D identicals but built by Curtis iirc
Ah, thx.
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Only 354 G's were built in Buffalo, NY. None ever saw combat and were used domestically for training. Incidentally the only two surviving razorbacks are Gs. One with Planes of Fame in Chino the other with the Imperial War Museum in Duxford, England. :aok
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We had the P-47D-30 early on in AH, HTC changed it to the D-40. Personally, I've got my favorite jug...the recently added P-47M. Fastest production jug made :airplane:
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We had the P-47D-30 early on in AH, HTC changed it to the D-40. Personally, I've got my favorite jug...the recently added P-47M. Fastest production jug made :airplane:
scariest too...
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We had the P-47D-30 early on in AH, HTC changed it to the D-40. Personally, I've got my favorite jug...the recently added P-47M. Fastest production jug made :airplane:
Why did they change it to the D-40?
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Give us a later model razorback jug w wing pylons and paddle blade props. Bubble tops are already overly represented. Performance should be identical to the P-47D25, just change the template and give us some new skins. There have already been some beautiful submissions eg Bonnie, Hun Hunter, Fiery Ginger, etc. :aok
+1 There will never be too many Jugs in this sim. :aok
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We had the P-47D-30 early on in AH, HTC changed it to the D-40. Personally, I've got my favorite jug...the recently added P-47M. Fastest production jug made :airplane:
Not to disparage any Thunderbolt representation in AHII or anywhere else; it is really ironic because only 130 Ms were built and the war in Europe was all but over when they worked out the numerous bugs with them. They probably chased down more V-1 buzz bombs than actual Luftwaffe from their bases in England.
I heard a quote from a western front German soldier about aircraft overhead from the end of the war: "If it was camouflage it was British, if it was silver it was American, if it wasn't there it was the Luftwaffe."
I will start the chant again: Give us the D-23!
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Not to disparage any Thunderbolt representation in AHII or anywhere else; it is really ironic because only 130 Ms were built and the war in Europe was all but over when they worked out the numerous bugs with them. They probably chased down more V-1 buzz bombs than actual Luftwaffe from their bases in England.
I heard a quote from a western front German soldier about aircraft overhead from the end of the war: "If it was camouflage it was British, if it was silver it was American, if it wasn't there it was the Luftwaffe."
I will start the chant again: Give us the D-23!
There was not a single V-1 that was chased by a P-47M.
The D-30 is merely a D-25 with a few updates. The D-30 was the first manufactured with the dorsal fin. Otherwise, they're practically identical aircraft--especially from a performance standpoint. The D-40 had a higher horsepower rating than the D-30, and thus performs differently.
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I heard a quote from a western front German soldier about aircraft overhead from the end of the war: "If it was camouflage it was British, if it was silver it was American, if it wasn't there it was the Luftwaffe."
If this quote is true, love it.
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I'm sure they must have felt that way when they were being shredded to pieces by Jabos in the Ardenne and Falais pocket and there was not a German plane to be seen to challenge them.
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Why did they change it to the D-40?
They didn't. It was always a P-47D-40, just had spent a long time mislabeled as a P-47D-30.
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I wouldnt mind getting rid of the D25 and changing it to the slightly earlier razorback version (23?) Would give a bit more contrast to the D40
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Only real difference between the D-30 and D-40 was the replacement of bazooka tube rockets with zero-length rocket stubs.
I don't even think they had horsepower differences. Same paddle blade props. Same engine models, as far as I recall. One had a fillet, but these were retrofitted to some and left off of others.
It's an ord issue, nothing more.
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I wouldnt mind getting rid of the D25 and changing it to the slightly earlier razorback version (23?) Would give a bit more contrast to the D40
I would not mind too. Then they can have the D23 in the Mid War Arena.
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Only real difference between the D-30 and D-40 was the replacement of bazooka tube rockets with zero-length rocket stubs.
I don't even think they had horsepower differences. Same paddle blade props. Same engine models, as far as I recall. One had a fillet, but these were retrofitted to some and left off of others.
It's an ord issue, nothing more.
Horsepower rating was different: D-25 rated at 2200hp vs. 2600hp for the D-40. The D-30, is identical to the D-25, except for the dorsal fin. That's it. That's why I thought it was goofy that we had D-30 skins on the D-40, but meh...
I wish we had a D-23, but the D-25 was the most numerous model made, and thus, in my opinion, worthy of being represented in-game. Realistically, the D-40 really came along pretty late in the ball-game, only beating the M by a few months.
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Ah, here's my confusion: I had previously looked at the stats as-modeled in game and they were identical.
The speed charts are on top of each other for the D-25 and the D-40. Only, the D-40 has an ever-so slight increase in climb rate on WEP. I thought it might be a weight issue, but now that you mention this I can see the horsepower being the reason.
EDIT: I can understand putting the D40 in... It sets them apart performance wise and weapons selection-wise. Otherwise we'd have 2 identical planes, one with and one without a fillet.
If that was the case, we'd have had almost total universal changeover to P-47Ns in the AH jabo community hehehe
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I would not mind too. Then they can have the D23 in the Mid War Arena.
+1 :D
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I would not mind too. Then they can have the D23 in the Mid War Arena.
D-23 was a mid-to-late 1944 bird, and therefore wouldn't fit into the mid-war time line.
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D-23 was a mid-to-late 1944 bird, and therefore wouldn't fit into the mid-war time line.
BUZZ Killer! :furious
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Stoney you are such a difficult Jughead, nothing gets by you :old: :aok. How about another Kearby ride; D-15? First model factory with wing pylons, can't find the exact deployment dates, but that should squeak into the MW time line, not that it won't fall on deaf ears! anyway
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Stoney you are such a difficult Jughead, nothing gets by you :old: :aok. How about another Kearby ride; D-15? First model factory with wing pylons, can't find the exact deployment dates, but that should squeak into the MW time line, not that it won't fall on deaf ears! anyway
Well, I think the D-23 is the model they should add, as the 22/23 series was the second most prolific model after the 25/30 series. That doesn't help us out in the MW arena though. Honestly, the P-47's first combat in ETO was spring of '43 (C models) and fall '43 in PTO. It was pretty much a late arrival into the war really. The last of the major U.S. fighters in fact. So, the D-11 would really be the only model that would fit the MW arena criteria.
On the other hand, the F6F-5 is in the MW arena, and it shouldn't be. The F6F-3 would be the proper Hellcat for the MW arena. I'm not sure how that got added, so perhaps there's a chance a late-war razorback could be included.
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Horsepower rating was different: D-25 rated at 2200hp vs. 2600hp for the D-40. The D-30, is identical to the D-25, except for the dorsal fin. That's it. That's why I thought it was goofy that we had D-30 skins on the D-40, but meh...
I wish we had a D-23, but the D-25 was the most numerous model made, and thus, in my opinion, worthy of being represented in-game. Realistically, the D-40 really came along pretty late in the ball-game, only beating the M by a few months.
By my links, I think most pre D-25/26s rated at 2300hp, then raised to 2430 from D-27, finally got 2600hp in late period. But it may retrofitted to earlier model, therefore a 2300/2430/2600hp boosted D-22/23 could be the fastest of D series (match the red line in my last reply).
Besides, the most numerous model was D-30 actually, about 2,600 built.
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By my links, I think most pre D-25/26s rated at 2300hp, then raised to 2430 from D-27, finally got 2600hp in late period. But it may retrofitted to earlier model, therefore a 2300/2430/2600hp boosted D-22/23 could be the fastest of D series (match the red line in my last reply).
Besides, the most numerous model was D-30 actually, about 2,600 built.
You're right about the 2300 for the D-25. I should have looked that one up first. Dean in America's Hundred Thousand lists the D-25/28 with the most production copies, followed by the D-30, then the D-21/23.
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Enough of the semantics, how do we forward the agenda Stoney. Who should hear this squeaky wheel? How does this wishlist go down the chain of command? I've emailed skuzzy and he says he has nothing to do with it. :lol
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Enough of the semantics, how do we forward the agenda Stoney. Who should hear this squeaky wheel? How does this wishlist go down the chain of command? I've emailed skuzzy and he says he has nothing to do with it. :lol
Don't know buddy...We made a case for the P-47M saying that it would be an easy addition, at least from a modeling standpoint, as the D-25 or D-40 model would work for the M. I suppose the same argument could be made for the D-23 with respect to the existing D-11 model, although since it has drop tanks and bigger fuel tanks in addition to the power changes, it may be a tougher thing to do.
The D-23 would open up a lot of capability for special events as well. But, there's a large portion of the player base who feel like there are enough/too many Jug models already, so be prepared for some push-back.