Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Raptor on May 19, 2010, 02:45:49 PM
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Very often AP rounds (from any tank) will bounce off of the M3/M16 armor in peculiar places; IE the mud flaps over the tires, the windshield, the rear door. My wish is that this would be looked at.
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really wouldnt do much though cuz AP passes through the M3 or M16 without killing it anyways... use HE. you wont ping anymore
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I too use HE to deal with the M3. At the very least, even if you miss, you will probably track it. The HE does not have to have a direct hit to deliver damage. :)
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Very often AP rounds (from any tank) will bounce off of the M3/M16 armor in peculiar places; IE the mud flaps over the tires, the windshield, the rear door. My wish is that this would be looked at.
Noticed this myself in the small amount of GVing I do.
+1
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Even had my HE rounds bouncing off, but thought it odd the AP rounds would as well.
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the only point you will ping off the M3 M16 is the very rear corners or the front corners... shoot anywhere else
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I do not believe the game has a "passed through and did no damage" hit sprite so it uses the "bounced off" hit sprite. You aren't really bouncing off M3s or M16s, you're just putting a shell straight through a non essential part.
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I do not believe the game has a "passed through and did no damage" hit sprite so it uses the "bounced off" hit sprite. You aren't really bouncing off M3s or M16s, you're just putting a shell straight through a non essential part.
Never thought about that. Could be the excatly whats happening
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I do not believe the game has a "passed through and did no damage" hit sprite so it uses the "bounced off" hit sprite. You aren't really bouncing off M3s or M16s, you're just putting a shell straight through a non essential part.
If it were to continue traveling straight through some of the angles I have hit, it would go through the engine. A shell through the windshield would kill the driver along with the troops in the back. An HE shell should not even bounce off...
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Why so many excuses?
The m3's side OFTEN bounces AP rounds off, this is inaccurate and should be fixed....simple.
A shot passing through should have the hit sprite like a ricochet, BUT the round shouldnt bounce off, also SIMPLE.
I swear some guys search these threads just hoping to find somone to disagree with.
Good thread dude, :aok
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An M3 isn't an empty box. There's stuff inside it. AP [well, not all of it] works not by blowing up once passing through armor, but by punching gigantic holes in things in modern guns. The Abrams tank in use now has an armor piercing round that has no explosive component, it's all kinetic.
The act of an AP round "passing through" the M3 would cause massive damage, and this bug has been around for ages. It really needs to be fixed.
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+1
Agreed, all old gv's and Ac/s need to be redone
Anything that holds troops should give each troop the ability of being killed. (would make base captures interesting) :rock
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There is a "passed through and did no damage" hit sprite.
The big hit sprite means the armor has been penetrated.That's all it means.
The only thing a bouncing round signifies is "failed to penetrate armor."
What happens afterward can only really be observed by which parts of the vehicle fail or by decompiling a film.
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An M3 isn't an empty box. There's stuff inside it. AP [well, not all of it] works not by blowing up once passing through armor, but by punching gigantic holes in things in modern guns. The Abrams tank in use now has an armor piercing round that has no explosive component, it's all kinetic.
The act of an AP round "passing through" the M3 would cause massive damage, and this bug has been around for ages. It really needs to be fixed.
From Tank Aces by Ralph Zumbro:
First armor v armor Desert Storm
Amazed, we counted 15 holes of differing sizes in I-35, mostly medium to large machine-gun holes with one small-caliber AT weapon of some older type. Luckily most of these rounds either didn't fully penetrate or just didn't hit anything sensitive on the way through.
...but on the way back to the supply-and-resource area, we were engaged by a T-72 and took two main gun SABOT rounds right through the hull. When the first round hit, I was only scared. When the second one hit, that terrified me. After the second round, I knew they had a bead on us and waited for the third.
Miraculously, neither of the two pig-iron SABOT projectiles hit anything sensitive, including human flesh. They just went in one side and out the other, causing only minor flash burns to the crew and their passengers.
Anything is possible....
:angel:
Why so many excuses?
The m3's side OFTEN bounces AP rounds off, this is inaccurate and should be fixed....simple.
A shot passing through should have the hit sprite like a ricochet, BUT the round shouldn't bounce off, also SIMPLE.
I swear some guys search these threads just hoping to find someone to disagree with.
Good thread dude, :aok
Not so much excuses as plausible explanations as why it could and did happen in real life.
30mm to the wing and the plane flies on? Maybe a dud?
88mm hit doesn't kill the M-3? Maybe the round passed through?
The internet and programming is finicky sometimes. Everything isn't always black and white. With the amount of rounds we fire daily, if in real life, there are bound to be some anomalies.
The percentage is probably very small but it seems like a much greater problem because we are doing it non-stop, 24/7.
wrongway
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The internet is responsible for my bouncing 2 76mm rounds off the cargo bay of an M3 yesterday I suppose... uuum NO...
This isnt some wild shot I made on the fly, but an offset of 20 or less degrees, at a range of NO MORE than 800.
My PC could have been vomiting blood, and that half track and the soldiers inside should STILL have been dead.
Excuses..., yup, the word fits... :aok
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ok if you want to get into the it should have killed the engine argument...the new M4s...nuff said
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I have no problem kill M3, M8 & M16 using HE!!
aka: Bison
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ok if you want to get into the it should have killed the engine argument...the new M4s...nuff said
Really? I haven't had any problems with taking out the engines on those.
Seems like it happens pretty regularly.
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Hit it in the engine...AP or HE will torch it.
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I have bounced 7 rounds he and AP off m3 ended up killing it with mg go figure.
Semp
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Yesterday I was defending a vbase and 2 M3s came driving by. With their speed advantage it is difficult yo hit them and kill them. I am trying to lead them and get frustrated to see the round bouncing off when it should be penetrating the vehicle. Like I said, both AP and HE rounds bounced off and HE rounds should not even bounce.
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AWwrgwy..DUDE, REALLY!!?? :rofl
A dud huh?..., or mabey GOD put his hands upon this particular GV and kept the AP round from doing any damage, or the M3's where ACTUALY equipt with deflector shields that bounce tank rounds off?
Mabey you are in some secret underground society that wants to keep this game mired in the 1990's, either that or you are actualy as seriously ill-informed as your arguments seem to reflect.
Your making my head hurt man..., read a friggin book dude.
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AWwrgwy..DUDE, REALLY!!?? :rofl
A dud huh?..., or maybe GOD put his hands upon this particular GV and kept the AP round from doing any damage, or the M3's where ACTUALY equipped with deflector shields that bounce tank rounds off?
Maybe you are in some secret underground society that wants to keep this game mired in the 1990's, either that or you are actually as seriously ill-informed as your arguments seem to reflect.
Your making my head hurt man..., read a friggin book dude.
Which book? There's 700 over there on shelves.
I'm just throwing out a plausible explanation that one can tell ones self when their Tater or 88 round hits and, miraculously, doesn't kill the object it hit.
There is no doubt in my mind that it is not programmed code. Stuff happens. Life isn't perfect. It's just a game.
Now, calculate all the rounds fired in game vs. the "duds". Does it seem like a very high percentage? Maybe things don't seem so dire if you actually look at the BIG picture.
Of course, anyone shot multiple times in real life (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/03/nyregion/03shot.html) should be dead too, right?
I just say, lighten up and tell yourself it was a bad fuze or it was a through shot and you'll get 'em next time.
Maybe you'll have more fun that way and sleep better, or, the headaches may even go away.
:cheers:
wrongway
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I dont sleep better when I see two 76mm rounds bounce off of the side of an M3...
I get angry because it is an obviouse flaw in the game...
It CAN be fixed, it SHOULD be fixed, nuff' said...
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I think you're both being silly.
Didn't you two know?
Aces High's M3 is how dud rounds are modeled for GVers. I mean, look at how many rounds hit tank vs tank. Most of them, right? Now, see, you're firing all of your dud rounds at M3s! That's why they normally don't die, and that is why all(most) of your other rounds aren't duds.
:bolt:
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I get angry because it is an obviouse flaw in the game...
Please explain your logic as to why it's so obviously a flaw in the 'game'.
And also, calm down. It really doesn't matter anyway.
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just to say guys...through shots are actually coaded into the game...nuff said
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I've never seen a cartoon round "bounce" off anything...the ricochet effect is not part of the games visual program. The little sparkly thingy travels until it hits a rendered object then disappears.
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Wow I see rounds bounce off most TV's. Its fun how I panic seeing the round hit a part then see it bounce and hit the floor or angle up and hit one of them 20k ponies. Then wait for the reload while u see his turret aiming at u see him fire and hear the round just bounce. Ill post a film later of two of us bouncing round after round It was so funny I ended up towering out.
Semp
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Ricochets are most certainly modeled. I hit myself once bouncing a round off a tank. Plus I always see rounds bounce off tanks (and M3s) and hit the ground nearby.
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i dont understand how everyone has problems killing M3s... just aim better and hit the side or dead rear or dead front... i down em easily like bacon on cheesecake/pie with ice cream and pudding on top...
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engage a full size tank with an m16 or a wirb and rounds will go bouncing all over the darn place...... :noid
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I've never seen a cartoon round "bounce" off anything...the ricochet effect is not part of the games visual program. The little sparkly thingy travels until it hits a rendered object then disappears.
You may want to look into getting a new video card because they are very apparent.
I don't understand why some of you are so quick to defend a bug.
Even a "through shot" would damage the thing, especially where some of the "through shots" occur.
The M3/M16's armor is rated to stop small arms fire, not a 76mm armor piercing tank round.
Aiming better would work if the things didn't cruise at an average speed of 45mph.
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You may want to look into getting a new video card because they are very apparent.
I don't understand why some of you are so quick to defend a bug.
Even a "through shot" would damage the thing, especially where some of the "through shots" occur.
The M3/M16's armor is rated to stop small arms fire, not a 76mm armor piercing tank round.
Aiming better would work if the things didn't cruise at an average speed of 45mph.
I don't think I'm so much "defending a bug" as I'm not really all that concerned about it. It doesn't happen that often and it seems to effect everyone equally.
It just doesn't seem to be something to get all that worked up about and, weird things happen in real life. It could almost be considered an unintended feature. The un-coaded, random failure. :cheers:
wrongway
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I don't think I'm so much "defending a bug" as I'm not really all that concerned about it. It doesn't happen that often and it seems to effect everyone equally.
It just doesn't seem to be something to get all that worked up about and, weird things happen in real life. It could almost be considered an unintended feature. The un-coaded, random failure. :cheers:
wrongway
what's the word wrongway? it starts with an L and ends in uck... :aok
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Personally, I'd like us all to define what "that often is." To me, a rate of over 50% is "that often." Though I generally don't fire tank guns at M3s; I mostly gave up back in Aces High I due to this bug.
The "random chance" and "luck" argument (in terms of those actually arguing to keep it) is also moot if you listen to one of HiTech's mission statements, generally brought up when people discuss gun jams and engine failures; it can be paraphrased to there being no random failures, no chance happenings, and no difference between identical vehicles so as to give everyone the same chance. Now, it's true that everyone faces the same M3-bounce problem, but to put it up to "sheer luck" or ammunition failure is to oppose it to how the game has been stated to be.
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its not a bug, might need to be tweaked alittle. But i have no problem 1 shot 1 kill vs M3s M16s. Rarely do i bound off, people just need
to aim better. I almost always aim for the grill on M3/16s, and/or i use HE for distant shots or if they hide in the trees.
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20 minutes ago defending a VBase, shot at a M# 400yds away and hit it broad side as it was letting troops, round bounces off. I fire machine gun to kill troops and switch to HE, shoot it, hit just above the tracks and the round bounced off. Tell me there is nothing wrong with that.
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You may want to look into getting a new video card because they are very apparent.
I have a 250GTS 512MB video card, how much bigger do I need to go?
It's not my video card. Either I'm not experiencing the same bug you are or the rounds are doing damage. I have yet to have a problem with a round bouncing off an M3/M16...the round either disappears, the vehicle starts smoking or it blows up.
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Personally, I'd like us all to define what "that often is." To me, a rate of over 50% is "that often." Though I generally don't fire tank guns at M3s; I mostly gave up back in Aces High I due to this bug.
The "random chance" and "luck" argument (in terms of those actually arguing to keep it) is also moot if you listen to one of HiTech's mission statements, generally brought up when people discuss gun jams and engine failures; it can be paraphrased to there being no random failures, no chance happenings, and no difference between identical vehicles so as to give everyone the same chance. Now, it's true that everyone faces the same M3-bounce problem, but to put it up to "sheer luck" or ammunition failure is to oppose it to how the game has been stated to be.
LW Tour 123, 2931 M-3's were killed by Tanks. Apparently taking more than one shot each. Rounding up, < 6000 Main gun rounds.
Does that seem accurate?
I agree with the "no failures" mission statement but S*** happens. Not everyone shot in real life dies either.
My "random failure" argument is made as a placebo to try and diffuse a problem that I, and apparently just I, don't see as a problem.
I can accept that everyting I hit doesn't blow up every single time. It just must be a personality fault.
Nameste.
wrongway
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My "random failure" argument is made as a placebo to try and diffuse a problem that I, and apparently just I, don't see as a problem.
I can accept that everyting I hit doesn't blow up every single time. It just must be a personality fault.
(in terms of those actually arguing to keep it)
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I've never seen a cartoon round "bounce" off anything...the ricochet effect is not part of the games visual program. The little sparkly thingy travels until it hits a rendered object then disappears.
I have a 250GTS 512MB video card, how much bigger do I need to go?
It's not my video card. Either I'm not experiencing the same bug you are or the rounds are doing damage. I have yet to have a problem with a round bouncing off an M3/M16...the round either disappears, the vehicle starts smoking or it blows up.
Visually what others and myself are seeing, the "little sparky thing" going until it hit something. Then one of two things can occur, a large hit sprite occurs notifying me that my round hit and did damage. Option two, which is what I am referring to in my original post, you see a small hit sprite then "the little sparky thing" changes direction until it hits the ground.
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ive had tiger rounds bounce of the corner (ends were the back metal meets the side) but other than that my rounds go straight through
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LW Tour 123, 2931 M-3's were killed by Tanks. Apparently taking more than one shot each. Rounding up, < 6000 Main gun rounds.
Does that seem accurate?
I agree with the "no failures" mission statement but S*** happens. Not everyone shot in real life dies either.
My "random failure" argument is made as a placebo to try and diffuse a problem that I, and apparently just I, don't see as a problem.
I can accept that everyting I hit doesn't blow up every single time. It just must be a personality fault.
Nameste.
wrongway
hey i'm not complaining. im trying to shut them up...
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Addendum:
Fixed an issue where rounds that penetrated an armor plate but did no damage appeared as if they had ricocheted off and not penetrated.
Good enough for me
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Addendum:
Fixed an issue where rounds that penetrated an armor plate but did no damage appeared as if they had ricocheted off and not penetrated.
Good enough for me
So, rounds that penetrate an armor plate but do no damage don't appear to ricochet now?
Key words being do no damage.
:t
Some sort of loop hole....
wrongway
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Or missing the word "internal," thereby being easily misinterpreted.
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I have bounced 7 rounds he and AP off m3 ended up killing it with mg go figure.
Semp
I do this all the time. the AP rounds won't hurt the M3, but I unload 50mg rounds into the rear troop housing and suddenly, the thing blows sky high.. but the AP round through the engine does nothing. Guess low caliber rounds hitting those unimportant areas is the trick. You thought TNT would do it? use a cap gun, it works better.