Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Aces High Bug Reports => Topic started by: Chilli on June 09, 2010, 07:33:49 PM
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In P38L today, landed w/ one engine out. Tried to steer while taxi-ing on the runway. Full opposite rudder and was still going in circles if I didn't have throttle at almost zero.
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Thats the way it's always been. Best thing is to make a BIGGGGG circle and get it to the runway.
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So, has it always been wrong? Or something that we could just live with? Either way, thought it should get a mention.
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In P38L today, landed w/ one engine out. Tried to steer while taxi-ing on the runway. Full opposite rudder and was still going in circles if I didn't have throttle at almost zero.
That problem as been around since the P-38 was added to the game. Basically, if you don't have enough forward momentum when landing with one engine, you'll go around in circles in the direction of the working engine.
If you move the throttle so that you're barely moving forward, use full rudder in the direction of the dead engine (also, if you have them mapped to pedals, toe brake on the side of the dead engine, i.e. dead right engine - right toe brake) and once you start to turn in the circle, cut throttle and stomp on both toe brakes to stop. start over from the beginning and repeat until you've got the nose of teh plane on concrete and exit out.
It's a major pain in the bellybutton to do and I would just recommend exiting out of the plane if you do not have sufficient forward momentum to stay on the runway when landing with a single engine.
ack-ack
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So, has it always been wrong? Or something that we could just live with? Either way, thought it should get a mention.
It is not necessarily wrong. I don't think the P38 had a nose wheel steering system. I've never bothered to research it. I have tried to taxi a multi-engine airplane on one engine without nose wheel steering and it is exceedingly difficult (Tri-Gear Beech 18 with castoring nosewheel).
If the P38 did not have nose wheel steering then the modeling is probably reasonably accurate. If it did have steering for the nose wheel then the modeling is wrong.
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Ive always wondered if the 38 had a nose wheel steering system. If anyone knows about this, can you please shed some light on this?
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Ive always wondered if the 38 had a nose wheel steering system. If anyone knows about this, can you please shed some light on this?
According to Dean (America's Hundred Thousand - Pg.174):
The nose gear assembly included a torque scissors and a shimmy damper, but had no brakes or steering system.
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I tried it and didn't see anything weird. Are you sure that the rudder behind your good engine wasn't shot off?
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Pyro needs to get the SAPP upgrade on his computer. :bolt:
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According to Dean (America's Hundred Thousand - Pg.174):
The nose gear assembly included a torque scissors and a shimmy damper, but had no brakes or steering system.
Pyro,
That is possible but, it's more likely that it is correctly modeled after seeing the above, thanks Soulyss. I will try using the toe brake, must have been late and didn't figure that out for myself.
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On the rare occasions that I land, it's usually single engine. Just gotta work it right to keep it going straight :)
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I dug out my Pilot's Flight Operating Instructions for the Army Models P-38H Series, P38J Series, P-38L-1, L-5 and F-5B Airplanes
Page 25 section 9. Taxiing Instructions
The airplane taxis easily and forward visibility is good. Use differential throttle control to save the brakes. There is no danger of ground loop should it become necessary to turn sharply or to apply full brakes.
From that one may infer that there is no nose wheel steering system. Differential throttle isn't really possible in AH but differential braking is. Normally, it is the C and V keys for left and right brake. I tried taxi with single engine off field using full throttle and the brake on the good engine side and was able to taxi in a straight line slowly. On field is a bit easier.
Page 26 Section 10(a)(15) states
Taxi a few feet straight down the runway so that the nose wheel will be in line when takeoff power is applied.
This indicates a free castoring nose wheel, more proof there is no nose wheel steering system.
I'd say the P38 in AH is modeled reasonably accurately when it comes to single engine ground handling.
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Differential throttle is easy. Just select which engine you want to control with shift 1 or shift 2 and when you're done reselect both engines with shift E.
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Differential throttle is easy. Just select which engine you want to control with shift 1 or shift 2 and when you're done reselect both engines with shift E.
That isn't easy. That is just available.
Easy is the way it is in a real airplane. You have both throttles in one hand and can vary power by twisting your hand. The full range of the throttle for both engines is available with both throttles still in contact with one hand.
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I tried it and didn't see anything weird. Are you sure that the rudder behind your good engine wasn't shot off?
Spawn on runway, turn off one engine and then full power on working engine. Go round and round and round.
ack-ack
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get a throttle controller that has a split stick so you can control 2 engines! :D
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Someone sells split stick controllers?
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Spawn on runway, turn off one engine and then full power on working engine. Go round and round and round.
ack-ack
In a real airplane without nose wheel steering and a free castoring nose wheel that is exactly what would happen. I've done it in a Tricycle gear Beech 18. Not at full power. That would be nuts.
The only major difference is in real world you can close the throttle and the airplane has some momentum. In AH the airplane stops cold when you close the throttle.
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In a real airplane without nose wheel steering and a free castoring nose wheel that is exactly what would happen. I've done it in a Tricycle gear Beech 18. Not at full power. That would be nuts.
Cool to know. I've always believed it wasn't a bug and just attributed it to how it worked in real life. Glad to know now for certain it is how it was.
The only major difference is in real world you can close the throttle and the airplane has some momentum. In AH the airplane stops cold when you close the throttle.
Yeah, that's why it's easy to taxi with one engine if you still have momentum and a pain in the bellybutton if you don't. Even though it is possible to taxi with one engine, the process is another pain in the ass.
ack-ack
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In P38L today, landed w/ one engine out. Tried to steer while taxi-ing on the runway. Full opposite rudder and was still going in circles if I didn't have throttle at almost zero.
Have had this happen in a 262 with a pilot wound. Landed near a v-base & slightly over shot a hard pad & spun around in circles on the ground until I blew up :lol I was only about 3 feet from pad just could not get a wheel on it though. This was a long time ago not sure if it would still be the same now with the remodeled 262.
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Someone sells split stick controllers?
saitek av8or has dual throttle, so does their new x65..
anyway any true 38 stick would get a ch flightsim yoke and a throttle quadrant :)
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saitek av8or has dual throttle, so does their new x65..
anyway any true 38 stick would get a ch flightsim yoke and a throttle quadrant :)
I still fly with a 10 year old MS Precision Pro and CH throttle. Not gonna change anytime soon :)
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Saitek has a dual throttle in their inventory.
Thrustmaster will have one very shortly, 'Spring 2010'.
CH has no plans to put a dual throttle out this year, 2010.
Or you could build your own, like I did. :devil
(honestly, its not worth the effort. Its nice for hammerheads and a little more but it gets me in more trouble than it is worth.)
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AH planes don't work properly with the wheels vs ground interactions. It seems you can actually pivot around your center (of the plane) rather than around the wheel-touches-ground points. For example, you cannot replicate the B-17 backup manuver of locking one wheel and then revving the engines on the same wing up to "walk" the plane backwards. Instead you just pivot about, rather than actually walk backwards.
That, in my opinion, is why in a twin-engine plane with 1 engine out/off, you cannot taxi properly because the friction vs the ground and the direction the wheels can roll isn't there to keep the plane rolling straight. It's really not "that" big of a deal, but it's annoying when it rears its head.
With 1 eng out unless you land on the runway you'll almost never be able to taxi back onto the cement to tower out safely. I stopped doing that years back (opting instead to turn both eng off rather than land with 1).
P.S. That's also why wind at ground level doesn't work properly IMO, the tires just don't work right so you go skidding when in the real world they keep you on a straight (straight-ER) path with a crosswind.
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CH has no plans to put a dual throttle out this year, 2010.
http://www.chproducts.com/retail/t_tq_quad.html
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http://www.chproducts.com/retail/t_tq_quad.html
du·al
/ˈduəl, ˈdyu-/ Show Spelled[doo-uhl, dyoo-] Show IPA
–adjective
1.
of, pertaining to, or noting two.
2.
composed or consisting of two people, items, parts, etc., together; twofold; double: dual ownership; dual controls on a plane.
The throttle quad is neither 'dual', nor was it released in 2010.
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du·al
/ˈduəl, ˈdyu-/ Show Spelled[doo-uhl, dyoo-] Show IPA
–adjective
1.
of, pertaining to, or noting two.
2.
composed or consisting of two people, items, parts, etc., together; twofold; double: dual ownership; dual controls on a plane.
The throttle quad is neither 'dual', nor was it released in 2010.
i was referencing the dual throttle configuration.
(http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/5637/tqtwinlg.jpg) (http://img697.imageshack.us/i/tqtwinlg.jpg/)
but youre right it is not new :)
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i was referencing the dual throttle configuration.
(http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/5637/tqtwinlg.jpg) (http://img697.imageshack.us/i/tqtwinlg.jpg/)
but youre right it is not new :)
That is a dual throttle configuration for a piston engine airplane with controllable pitch props. props throttle mixtures. Looking at that thing gives me nightmares.
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If you want to discus this further please start up a thread outside of "Bug Reports"
- sudz